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what exactly is the point of this? Do you really think anyone will say anything besides they want the truth? You really think someone, who honestly, wants a lie, is going to answer this poll honestly?

May I also add that we are ALL to be working out our individual salvation in fear and trembling ? Whether that be due to a slight in adherence to to the truth, or a misunderstanding of that truth, we should remain as humble servants and love one another as commanded by our Lord and savior, who is Christ Jesus.

Perhaps the better question to ask is: can I face the truth? It can be an ugly thing from our perspective to get into, but only because we then see our own ugliness sometimes when we have to accept it. May I also suggest that this is a question you should be asking yourself first, and for a long enough time to digest the answer, before thinking whether to ask anyone else the same question. No one has the monopoly on truth except God, for only He is omniscient. Blessings

That maybe but they won't admit to it-if they would then they would not be seeking an interpretation. I'm not going to vote on principal, seeing as I see this thread as more of a way to alienate people and start a fight, and I don't see anything healthy or productive coming out of it.

A full council is when people come together, not because they see everything the same way, but because they see things differently, from every direction. To think that only one way of seeing things is correct, you leave out the other 359 degrees of seeing the whole picture. I believe we each see Obama from different views, and if we put the views together, we get a glimpse of the whole picture.

The way Ezra described the A.C. and the False Prophet is correct. The A.C. is called the 'Son of Perdition' because he is a man. That description doesn't apply to a kingdom as you claim; it wouldn't make sense. Nor are you correct that the Church will still be here; the Church has to be taken out of the world before the satan can have full reign. Why do you discount the Rapture? There is no "the Antichrist" as commonly but mistakenly taught. There are the Beast, False Prophet, Satan, Gog, the Son of Perdition -- just to name the main ones -- who all are/will be antichrists. The term is only used in 1 John, and he told us that "the spirit of the Antichrist ... is now already [in John's day] in the world." (1 John 4:3) That leaves out any human to come in our day. There are only two sons of perdition mentioned in the Bible: Judas, and the one in the End Times mentioned in 2 Thes. 2. The latter one will come before the return of Christ, during the time of the great apostasy of the Church (2:3-4), and be destroyed at the time of His Coming. (2:8) Whereas the Beast and False Prophet will come only after the heavenly and earthly cataclysms of the 6th Seal = Matt. 24:29, which immediately precede the appearing of Christ in the clouds of heaven to take up his Church. Therefore, neither the Beast nor the False Prophet nor Satan nor Gog can be the Son of Perdition. The Son of Perdition, like Judas, will be the great betrayer and ultimate apostate of the faith of his people: Judas of Judaism, and the latter-day Son of Perdition of Christianity. All of you who say the Antichrist will be this one or that one, why don't you provide the biblical evidence that says so, if you can; instead of continuing to promote this myth of Churchianity as being an established fact?

We are to continue to meet as a group of Believers. And yet, then you should be meeting more and more. Heb 10:25 - Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching. In Christ Montana Marv

from The American Spectator: "The Supreme Court’s decision to hear Little Sisters of the Poor v. Burwell means that another group of Christians bedeviled by Beltway bureaucrats must beg permission from nine unelected government officials to practice their faith unmolested. This isn’t about women’s health or reproductive rights. It’s just another battle in the war on religious liberty waged by various manifestations of the state for two millennia. Whether it’s President Obama ordering his HHS secretary to bring intransigent nuns to heel or the Emperor Trajan advising a provincial governor on the proper punishment of unrepentant Christians, it’s all about worshipping the state gods. "During Trajan’s reign, that meant forcing people to betray their faith by making them participate in the imperial cult. This typically involved a public sacrifice to the 'divine' Augustus. Refusal to do so resulted in very unpleasant consequences. In our era, it means forcing people to betray their faith by making them subsidize the sacraments of the secular state...." http://spectator.org/articles/64664/little-sisters-poor-vs-government-almighty

Thanks everyone.

They aren't stopping after the horror in Paris. IMO, you can't contain roaches....you have to eradicate them. \\http://news.yahoo.com/islamic-state-threatens-attack-washington-other-countries-122051922.html

Seeking Truth, is not a matter of just one or two personal ideas ,I see that some of the responses are generic, and has no follow through or thought that it could be different, I do not believe we all have come to the same conclusion, we can all read and see what scripture says, but is the meaning ,behind it the correct one, I see that many want to give a fast answer and case closed? this is not the correct way, nor is there enough to satisfy the argument, for definitions of words have been changed, which , has totally new bearing on what everyone has been saying ? so it is not deceptive, because I ask a question off of my first question, are we not here, to try to learn Gods ways ? or are we so skilled in the bible that we already know it all? I think we cannot be closed minded to possible changes, that many will not want to see, I am okay if I am wrong, but I cannot be told, that I am making a point that is already set , and there is no change, for that is not learning anything I am not trying to change anything , but to see, that many will hold there ground, and not reason, to see if they may have been deceived, ? this could be possible, we want to be filled with wisdom ,and know Gods word , not as other tell us , but for what God himself is stating to us? thank you, this is not directed at any one, for God is love, and I believe , after research, that God will not cook a person for ever , for this is not ,the same loving merciful God, that gave his son, for you and for me on the cross, for the ungodly is sentence to the lake of fire, yes ,until they perish ,and to become ashes yes, but not forever, this is not what the scriptures is saying, if this is so,? then Jesus paid it all on the cross, is not complete ?and the people continue to die forever and ever? this is not possible, Jesus said it is finished, and so it is finished, does the eternal forever really mean forever burning, with no end? but I will say this is my opinion , and my observation, for I am sinner saved, by grace, of a loving God, and I am speaking as a child of God.

I do not think Christmas trees are holy or unholy any more then I think my microwave is holy or unholy. But I suppose if you feel that Christmas trees are unholy, then don't get one.

I will definitely be avoiding it from now on. Thank you for your response, and may God bless you abundantly <3

SINNERSAVED, I really do appreciate the thought-provoking questions and commentary you have added to my understanding. I cannot say though, that I agree with you on several subsequent responses and / or teachings you have espoused ( after your ' questions ' ) were answered. If you are truly seeking answers, then why is there a pattern of you asking, then correcting / teaching ? I only ask because the process seems strange to me. If my faith and understanding of a particular topic differs from another, and I question that understanding then I ask for input. On the other hand, if I am certain of my understanding, then to ask for understanding only to then to discredit the responses would seem ( to me ) to be somewhat deceptive. Maybe it's just me, and if so I do not want to accuse you or anyone of deception but perhaps for slow folks ( like myself ) you could indicate that you honestly have no question as far as your understanding but are curious as to other's understanding and wish to share that understanding with those who have a different understanding.

I can only point you once again to these verses, SS. Hell is real and it IS eternal. If the Bible says that it is, in plain words, what can be your reasoning for not believing what is written? From Bible.org, again........... (1) Everyone will exist eternally either in heaven or hell (Daniel 12:2,3; Matthew 25:46; John 5:28; Revelation 20:14,15). (2) Everyone has only one life in which to determine their destiny (Hebrews 9:27). (3) Heaven or hell is determined by whether a person believes (puts their trust) in Christ alone to save them (John 3:16, 36, etc.). Key Passages About Hell(1) Hell was designed originally for Satan and his demons (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10). (2) Hell will also punish the sin of those who reject Christ (Matthew 13:41,50; Revelation 20:11-15; 21:8). (3) Hell is conscious torment. Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”(4) Hell is eternal and irreversible. Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night”Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire”Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”

According to the Bible we will all 'sleep' in our graves until Jesus returns. From lifefaithandhope.com.. Jesus Christ said in John 3:13: “No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.” That seems clear! Why is it so hard for so many to believe? People who have died are not awake in heaven! They are “sleeping” or resting in their graves. The remaining verses of 1 Thessalonians 4 confirm this. Notice: “For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep [are dead]. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first” (1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). When Jesus Christ returns, the dead will “rise.” For one to “rise,” one would have to come up from somewhere. If one had died and gone to heaven already, then the individual wouldn’t be rising from the grave when Christ returns. He or she would be descending from heaven, yet this is not what Paul taught the Thessalonians. This teaching of our being raised from the grave at Jesus Christ’s return is reiterated in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52: “Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” Morning would you please explain this post to me.Are you saying that the soul stays in the grave when we die? where would you go if you were to die today, would you be with jesus , in hell , in the grave, or heaven the bible tells us all go to the grave , unless you are here when the rapture comes, but all go to the grave, does our soul stay with us, or is it in heaven, I hear love ones always say , he or she is in a better place, this is said all the time, from my study, and its just my opinion, that there is not a eternal hell, when you die you perish , and you are no more, people claiming coming from death and saw hell, I don't think this is possible, was the meaning of hell ,fire forever and torment , biblical , or something made up by poet or something? many churches and pastors are saying when you die you go immediately to heaven, with the lord, but this I read ,is not biblical . The Bible speaks a lot about hell for be assured there is a hell and it is eternal, and it is where those who reject Jesus will spend eternity. You do not parish in hell you are very aware of where you are. And yes it is flames and and all the other horrors that it talks about. To teach a doctrine that you are speaking of is very dangerous. I want to share Jesus will anyone who will listen so they will not go to hell. That, I believe is why Jesus said to us, Go into the world and preach the Gospel to every living creature. It really sounds to me that you are trying to rewrite the Word of God and put your own twist on it, You can't do that either. When the Bible speaks of something it is true. If it says Hell is fire and eternal punishment you can be sure that it just it is. Read it and believe it. Okay brothers and sisters , let me ask this, in the KJV bible, did the greek words, tartorus, hades ,and Gehenna, get translated as one word in the English, as Hell. then there would be different meanings to the scripture then just ,Hell or what people say is Hell, for the American dictionary defines it falsely from what we know it to be in the bible or Gods word, when hell ,it self, is in the grave ! ,I believe you do go to the grave, and you wait until you are called by the son of god for the rapture of the just ,or the unjust, I also believe that there is a eternal fire, but it is Gods eternal fire, not a fire for eternal for ever tormented, but a gods eternal fire, that is unlike any other, and people will suffer it until they are all burnt up, and then they are no more, I know this will not sit right with many , but we need to verify the root words in the right contexted of the scripture, and as Sodom and Gomorrah was fire and brime stone as a example to the coming judgement Sodom is not still burning , it is all ashes, so can we be reading into the scriptures something that is not ? I am open to get someone to oppse, it is okay for this is about God and his will, God is a God of love and he wishes no one to perish, ? perish, done with , finish as in no more, alive, but have everlasting life, God I believe the wicked die in fire and consumed, but it is not forever and ever ,it is until that person is completely consumed and is no more, perishes ,. and then there is ashes, Gehenna for those that did not know , is a fire dump site , out side of Jerusalem and it keep going and many were killed there , and many did not fall in , the worm never died for the bodies,and completed its process of the dead, so , if I am wrong, please correct me , for I think ,we need to really examine , the words translated and the meanings given from the greek words to English, thank you , and I am just seeking truth, to God be the glory. and my name, is sinner saved, I am saved ,by the blood on the cross , by our lord and savior Jesus Christ, for anyone thinking I am here to corrupt or twist the truth, . ..let the truth be told, thank you this is done all due respect to others,

Personally I'd avoid your father, but that's for you to decide not me. Wishing you well.

Hi RevelationWriter, Thank you for your thoughts. Now let`s have a closer look at the timing of the Marriage of the Lamb – Matt. 25 & Rev.19. `Then the kingdom (rule) of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps & went out to meet the bridegroom……But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered & slept. And at midnight a cry was heard: ”Behold. The bridegroom is coming; go out to meet Him!” (Matt. 25: 1 – 6) `Let us be glad & rejoice & give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, & His wife has made herself ready…..Then I saw heaven opened, & behold, a white horse. And he who sat on Him was called Faithful & True…` (Rev. 19: 7 & 11) Thus we see that these scriptures are referring, as you so rightly said to the Lord coming (firstly as the judge & deliverer) & then as the bridegroom to His wife. Now we notice the timing is at `midnight` the dark time of the night. This is exactly what will happen in the great tribulation – great physical & spiritual darkness. The world - `…became full of darkness; & men gnawed their tongues because of the pain.` (Rev. 16: 10) The prophet Zechariah tells us more detail – `It shall come to pass in that day that there will be no light. The lights will diminish. It shall be one day which is known to the Lord – neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen that is will be light.` (Zech. 14: 6 & 7) This is the `midnight` the darkest hour when the Lord comes. We know that when He comes it will be with power & great glory & all the holy angels with Him. I believe that this first ray & glimmer of light is emanating from the distant armies of heaven who are on their way to this sin-stricken blackened earth. Thus at evening time the light will be brighter – as though there were a steady increase in this emanation of glory. After the Lord deals with the armies of the world we know that He goes from the Mount of Olives across the valley of Jehoshaphat, to Jerusalem. There He connects with the people of Judah & then those of the house of David. The people of Israel will at last have their blindness taken away & by the Holy Spirit receive their long awaited Messiah. `The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David & the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah.` (Zech. 12: 7) `And I will pour on the house of David & on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace & supplication; then they will look on me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, & grieve for him as one grieves for a first-born.` (Zech. 12: 10) The prophet Isaiah explains this quite clearly concerning Israel - `”For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is His name; & your redeemer is the holy one of Israel; He is called the god of the whole earth. For the Lord has called you like a woman forsaken & grieved in spirit, like a youthful wife when you were refused,” says your God. “For a mere moment I have forsaken you, but with great mercies I will gather you. With a little wrath I hid my face from you for a moment; but with everlasting kindness I will have mercy on you,” says the Lord, your redeemer.` (Isa. 54: 5 – 8) Israel is the wife of the Lord & when He comes to them & connects with them again then there is the marriage, the wedding supper. This wedding supper takes place on earth for the Lord reveals that a guest is there without a wedding garment. He then is ejected. Such an event could not of course occur in heaven. `..when the king came in to see the guests, He saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. So he said to him, “Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?” And he was speechless. Then the king said to the servants, “Bind him hand & foot, take him away, & cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping & gnashing of teeth. ` (Matt. 22: 11 & 12) Note the great multitude you referred to in Rev. 7 are of the nations & they are the ones who eventually live again on the earth & walk by the light of the New Jerusalem. `And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, & the kings of the earth bring their glory & honour into it.` (Rev. 21: 24) This city is also described as a bride, but is not referring to the connecting of the Lord the bridegroom with Israel on the earth. One symbol – wife/bride is for Israel in time. The other symbol – like a bride is for the city in all its glory in eternity. Marilyn. Mt of Olives..docx

While God will certainly protect you, He also expects you to be wise in all your decisions. Jesus said be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Spend much time in Job, Psalms, and Proverbs and learn from God's wisdom. Also ask God for wisdom, and believe that He has granted it, because He gives it liberally to those who ask (James 1:5-8). Get to know your prospective spouse thoroughly, and balance "love is blind" with "love is wise".

Pray, and don't marry without having a prospectve spouse, earn a turst by deserving it, don't be afraid to interview the people who know him best, do a background check etc, big deceisions should not be taken casually.

It might make for a good musing but I wouldn't put it forth as truth without some sort of corroboration. Are you basing your view on only that one passage? Not at all...God said,before I formed you in the womb,I knew the.He told Esau,I hated you,before you were even born...People brush that aside by saying, of course He knew, He knows everything.. I take it more personal,like me getting to know you..When you understand that,you understand the elect and why God will interfere in some people's lives..I understand His plan,and I'm watching It unfold before my eye's... Hi n2thelight, I think it is time to get back to the topic or start your own thread on your views, bro. Marilyn. I would agree. Enough of derailing threads already. All good,but questions dictated I go there....Especially since you all called it foolish

It might make for a good musing but I wouldn't put it forth as truth without some sort of corroboration. Are you basing your view on only that one passage? Not at all...God said,before I formed you in the womb,I knew the.He told Esau,I hated you,before you were even born...People brush that aside by saying, of course He knew, He knows everything.. I take it more personal,like me getting to know you..When you understand that,you understand the elect and why God will interfere in some people's lives..I understand His plan,and I'm watching It unfold before my eye's... It certainly is a concept that we finite beings have difficulty understanding, if we even have the capability to understand it. I find it interesting to ponder though. I think we can know "about" eternity and infinity, etc. but since all of our experiences are finite, have beginnings and endings, we're limited by our frame of reference. And then there's this: All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. Revelation 13:8 There seems to be other such "time warp" verses as well. For me, I'll leave it in the realm of musings because of my limited capacity to grasp it....kind of like predestination and free will. Thx for looking into what most call me a fool for.......

It might make for a good musing but I wouldn't put it forth as truth without some sort of corroboration. Are you basing your view on only that one passage? Not at all...God said,before I formed you in the womb,I knew the.He told Esau,I hated you,before you were even born...People brush that aside by saying, of course He knew, He knows everything.. I take it more personal,like me getting to know you..When you understand that,you understand the elect and why God will interfere in some people's lives..I understand His plan,and I'm watching It unfold before my eye's... Hi n2thelight, I think it is time to get back to the topic or start your own thread on your views, bro. Marilyn. I would agree. Enough of derailing threads already.

Thank you so much for your prayers and for sending me that word! I take comfort in God, and I know that no matter what happens, He is with me throughout everything. I spoke with my father today about the issue, and he said it doesn't mean I am supporting them, I just am appearing in the same video as them, not taking part in their wedding or anything. I am very upset about the ordeal, but I pray for everyone involved that they would come to know God and that this may glorify Him in some way. He will make a way where there seems to be none, in this I truly believe

This is what the end of the article said in its entirety: "An interesting twist to this story involves every progressive’s favorite Pope. During his recent visit to the U.S. Pope Francis paid a surprise visit to the Little Sisters, and the Vatican made it abundantly clear that he did so as a show of support for their position in this case. This won’t have any effect on the Court’s ruling, but it certainly highlighted the plight of the Little Sisters. Not that their situation was ever ambiguous. Little Sisters of the Poor v. Burwell isn’t about reproductive rights, the 'war in women,' or other such balderdash. It’s about whether our primary allegiance as free people is owed to our own consciences or Government Almighty." I think the phrase "free people" can simply refer to us as Americans and/or as moral agents free to choose our own beliefs.

if you have signed a contract and the filming is done....there may be nothing other than a written letter voicing your protest and your desire to be eliminated from the film. This may be too late. Personally I would avoid any such venues in the future. There may be fine print in the contract that you did not read and now have no recourse. As Christians we have to be very careful of pitfalls laid in our path by our enemy.

I agree Joe. Updated version to attract young people. Not a good thing. I would speak to him about it but only after I learned a great deal about this myself. The Hindu's have a vast number of gods and goddesses. There is One most powerful God and He is the one we serve. He should have nothing to do with demons mascarading as good.

It might make for a good musing but I wouldn't put it forth as truth without some sort of corroboration. Are you basing your view on only that one passage? Not at all...God said,before I formed you in the womb,I knew the.He told Esau,I hated you,before you were even born...People brush that aside by saying, of course He knew, He knows everything.. I take it more personal,like me getting to know you..When you understand that,you understand the elect and why God will interfere in some people's lives..I understand His plan,and I'm watching It unfold before my eye's... Hi n2thelight, I think it is time to get back to the topic or start your own thread on your views, bro. Marilyn.

It might make for a good musing but I wouldn't put it forth as truth without some sort of corroboration. Are you basing your view on only that one passage? Not at all...God said,before I formed you in the womb,I knew the.He told Esau,I hated you,before you were even born...People brush that aside by saying, of course He knew, He knows everything.. I take it more personal,like me getting to know you..When you understand that,you understand the elect and why God will interfere in some people's lives..I understand His plan,and I'm watching It unfold before my eye's... It certainly is a concept that we finite beings have difficulty understanding, if we even have the capability to understand it. I find it interesting to ponder though. I think we can know "about" eternity and infinity, etc. but since all of our experiences are finite, have beginnings and endings, we're limited by our frame of reference. And then there's this: All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. Revelation 13:8 There seems to be other such "time warp" verses as well. For me, I'll leave it in the realm of musings because of my limited capacity to grasp it....kind of like predestination and free will.

It might make for a good musing but I wouldn't put it forth as truth without some sort of corroboration. Are you basing your view on only that one passage? Not at all...God said,before I formed you in the womb,I knew the.He told Esau,I hated you,before you were even born...People brush that aside by saying, of course He knew, He knows everything.. I take it more personal,like me getting to know you..When you understand that,you understand the elect and why God will interfere in some people's lives..I understand His plan,and I'm watching It unfold before my eye's...

It might make for a good musing but I wouldn't put it forth as truth without some sort of corroboration. Are you basing your view on only that one passage?

N2thelight Now I am not going to insult you because you believe what you believe, but just a question, do you believe the creation account God gave us in Genesis?

You all think you came into being after your mom got pregnant,I know God created my soul,long before..........As Job declares!!!!!!!

Just a simple question,are you all a son of God? Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding." Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for Joy?" What part of ALL,are you not understanding????

Hello again Okay here's how I see it..... I'll start at the beginning,as most see it(mine is millions of years before)(another story on that) First Adam and Eve were not the first people on earth,and all did not come from them....For the sake of how Im trying to explain this,I'll call them,the first of Israel....Those who were created before,are the Ethnos,you call them gentiles,ie all the different races we have today... Heck,I gota go back to that story,millions of years ago Not debating,and no private thoughts,but as how I see the Word.... As per Job, God created all souls at the same time(millions of years ago)We were all happy,and that included Lucifer..That is also when He created the earth,and we all lived here,with the same governmental structure perse,as we have today.... Lucifer was in charge,ie,he had a great position,which Im sure he earned,as he was right beside the mercy seat....As I said we were here(on earth)however we were not in flesh,rather as we were originally created,the animals were in flesh,ie the dino's,etc.... At some point satan was filled with pride,and he wanted to be God,in other words he,tried a coup,in which he persuaded a 3rd of God's childeren us included to follow him,of course he failed.... However,now God had a delima,what to do with those who followed satan...He could have destroyed satan along with those who followed him,at that time,imagine if you have kids,how hard that would be... Instead He came up with a plan,which required us to be born of woman,ie,flesh,with no rememberance of that time,this is how He could say,I knew you before you were born,and also why He hated Easu... Im trying to keep this simple,but more thoughts keep popping in my head ,and Im really gonna get to the Ethnos =)...... He destroyed,the first earth age,all souls went back to heaven...... Then He created man,male and female of all the races.....Then He formed Adam,and gave him Eve,through this,bloodline to bloodline Christ would come,this is why satan tried to destroy theis seed,to prevent Christ from being born,as he knew this would mean his destruction... Now to the subject(Ethnos) The Word of God is a story about Christ in His line,from Eve to Mary,and all that came in contact(Ethnos)So it's about Israel,perse,and all others,(races)The Ethnos are all the other races,which most call Gentiles,but the corerect phrase would be those of the Ethnos,who will have kings and queens over them.... Did'nt provide any scriptures,but I can if you have a question on what I just posted....... This is so unscriptural that I can't believe you would post it on a Christian forum. Get a Bible, read what it actually says and stop trying to rewrite it to suit yourself. You are speaking against God by spouting this heresy. I pray that your eyes be opened to the Truth, N. Like I told Mariyln...I'd provide scripture,and like I told Marv,your thoughts of what I believe,don't matter to me...I alone will stand before God!!!!!!Open your own eye's,Im good.........

I stand where I am,as do you....I know what Mormans teach,and that's not what Im saying If you can't see it I really don't care God hated Easu before he was born,why?You and people like you prefer to say its because God know's everything,I look at it as He really knew and knows us....On a personal level not because He knows everything..... We don't go create spiritual babies,we are already spiritual,as we were created....Where was Christ before He was born of woman?Same thing....

Good prayer there, MorningGlory. I thought so too. Marilyn.

Hello again Okay here's how I see it..... I'll start at the beginning,as most see it(mine is millions of years before)(another story on that) First Adam and Eve were not the first people on earth,and all did not come from them....For the sake of how Im trying to explain this,I'll call them,the first of Israel....Those who were created before,are the Ethnos,you call them gentiles,ie all the different races we have today... Heck,I gota go back to that story,millions of years ago Not debating,and no private thoughts,but as how I see the Word.... As per Job, God created all souls at the same time(millions of years ago)We were all happy,and that included Lucifer..That is also when He created the earth,and we all lived here,with the same governmental structure perse,as we have today.... Lucifer was in charge,ie,he had a great position,which Im sure he earned,as he was right beside the mercy seat....As I said we were here(on earth)however we were not in flesh,rather as we were originally created,the animals were in flesh,ie the dino's,etc.... At some point satan was filled with pride,and he wanted to be God,in other words he,tried a coup,in which he persuaded a 3rd of God's childeren us included to follow him,of course he failed.... However,now God had a delima,what to do with those who followed satan...He could have destroyed satan along with those who followed him,at that time,imagine if you have kids,how hard that would be... Instead He came up with a plan,which required us to be born of woman,ie,flesh,with no rememberance of that time,this is how He could say,I knew you before you were born,and also why He hated Easu... Im trying to keep this simple,but more thoughts keep popping in my head ,and Im really gonna get to the Ethnos =)...... He destroyed,the first earth age,all souls went back to heaven...... Then He created man,male and female of all the races.....Then He formed Adam,and gave him Eve,through this,bloodline to bloodline Christ would come,this is why satan tried to destroy theis seed,to prevent Christ from being born,as he knew this would mean his destruction... Now to the subject(Ethnos) The Word of God is a story about Christ in His line,from Eve to Mary,and all that came in contact(Ethnos)So it's about Israel,perse,and all others,(races)The Ethnos are all the other races,which most call Gentiles,but the corerect phrase would be those of the Ethnos,who will have kings and queens over them.... Did'nt provide any scriptures,but I can if you have a question on what I just posted....... This is so unscriptural that I can't believe you would post it on a Christian forum. Get a Bible, read what it actually says and stop trying to rewrite it to suit yourself. You are speaking against God by spouting this heresy. I pray that your eyes be opened to the Truth, N.

Hi Retrobyter, Thank you for the encouragement of a good response - point 1. Now point 2 referring to Israel in 2 parts - as the sand of the seashore, & as the stars of heaven. Yes we read that God is referring to their number, as in so many they couldn`t count, yet God is specific & we realise that the stars are a prominent feature in the heavens but not predominant. Then we realise that many OT people looked for a city (the new Jerusalem) built by God which would play a prominent part in God`s governing over the earth. The sand aspect also, as you said refers to a great uncountable number, yet also brings out the feature of the predominant aspect. The earthly part of the nation of Israel will be the predominant ruler over the nations of the world as promised. As to you comments on the Body of Christ, I will wait till I do a thread specifically on that topic & hope we can discuss there. Marilyn.

Hi n2thelight, It seems you have a different `bible` from me & thus we cannot understand each other.

n2thelight Total rubbish, No Scriptural basis for what you believe. Sounds a lot like Mormonism, to some degree. What glasses did you look through to get to what you believe. Mormons go to paradise and make spiritual babies and plant them on other worlds. Is that what happened to this earth. In Christ Montana Marv

Hello again Okay here's how I see it..... I'll start at the beginning,as most see it(mine is millions of years before)(another story on that) First Adam and Eve were not the first people on earth,and all did not come from them....For the sake of how Im trying to explain this,I'll call them,the first of Israel....Those who were created before,are the Ethnos,you call them gentiles,ie all the different races we have today... Heck,I gota go back to that story,millions of years ago Not debating,and no private thoughts,but as how I see the Word.... As per Job, God created all souls at the same time(millions of years ago)We were all happy,and that included Lucifer..That is also when He created the earth,and we all lived here,with the same governmental structure perse,as we have today.... Lucifer was in charge,ie,he had a great position,which Im sure he earned,as he was right beside the mercy seat....As I said we were here(on earth)however we were not in flesh,rather as we were originally created,the animals were in flesh,ie the dino's,etc.... At some point satan was filled with pride,and he wanted to be God,in other words he,tried a coup,in which he persuaded a 3rd of God's childeren us included to follow him,of course he failed.... However,now God had a delima,what to do with those who followed satan...He could have destroyed satan along with those who followed him,at that time,imagine if you have kids,how hard that would be... Instead He came up with a plan,which required us to be born of woman,ie,flesh,with no rememberance of that time,this is how He could say,I knew you before you were born,and also why He hated Easu... Im trying to keep this simple,but more thoughts keep popping in my head ,and Im really gonna get to the Ethnos =)...... He destroyed,the first earth age,all souls went back to heaven...... Then He created man,male and female of all the races.....Then He formed Adam,and gave him Eve,through this,bloodline to bloodline Christ would come,this is why satan tried to destroy theis seed,to prevent Christ from being born,as he knew this would mean his destruction... Now to the subject(Ethnos) The Word of God is a story about Christ in His line,from Eve to Mary,and all that came in contact(Ethnos)So it's about Israel,perse,and all others,(races)The Ethnos are all the other races,which most call Gentiles,but the corerect phrase would be those of the Ethnos,who will have kings and queens over them.... Did'nt provide any scriptures,but I can if you have a question on what I just posted.......

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn C. You were exactly right on your first point! VERY GOOD! Couldn’t have said it better myself! Point 2 has a few ... “problems?” Actually, while you are right in what you quoted and used good Scripture content for support, it’s the definitions and the interpretation of those verses based on those definitions that is somewhat ... lacking. First, when the phrase “as the ’stars of the heavens’” was used, it was in Genesis 15:1-6 in the Abrahamic Covenant: Genesis 15:1-6 1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. 2 And Abram said, LORD God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? 3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. KJV It’s a simple analogy, “if you can count the number of stars in the sky, then you’ll be able to count the number of seed (progeny/children and grandchildren) you shall have.” It does NOT imply that they will be IN the sky or IN the heavens! Avraham (Abraham) DID look for On the other hand, since the New Jerusalem extends upward 1,500 MILES, it extends BEYOND the atmosphere even when sitting upon the New Earth! And, since the whole New Jerusalem will be for the Kingdom of the Messiah, the Israel over which David and Shlomoh ruled, they shall also be part of that Kingdom and shall be able to go into the skies and “among the stars” in outer space as they ascend to other levels of the city! So, in a SENSE, you are “correct.” (Isn’t this fun? LOL!) Furthermore, WHEN is the “third heaven” or the “third sky” coming? It doesn’t come until AFTER the Fire and the Great White Throne Judgment, the "NEW sky" of Revelation 21:1! And, where does the “throne of God and of the Lamb” exist? It’s in the PINNACLE - the CAPSTONE - of the New Jerusalem! So, again, in a SENSE, you are “correct!" It also means that our citizenship - our community (Greek: politeuma) - IS in the “sky!” “Partakers of the heavenly calling,” “kleeseoos epouraniou metachoi” in Greek, means “participants of the invitation to above-the-sky,” and again, is talking about our invitation to the New Jerusalem, which, even when landed, will extend into space above the atmosphere! The modern concept of the “church” being “the body of Christ,” as an entity foreign to and different from the “nations” and “Israel,” is a STRANGE concept not truly found in the Scriptures. While the “church” does not replace the national children of Israel in the nation called “Israel,” it IS grafted into that nation and becomes a significant portion of that nation’s leadership! Remember Ephesians 2: Ephesians 2:11-22 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ (without a Messiah), being aliens from the commonwealth (the citizenship) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus (in the Messiah Yeshua`) ye who sometimes were far off (far away) are made nigh (near; close) by the blood of Christ (the Messiah). 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain (two) one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (Ephesian Gentiles), and to them that were nigh (close) (the children of Israel). 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints (the holy ones of Israel), and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. KJV And, Romans 11: Romans 11:11-29 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (That is, God doesn’t renege upon His gifts and calling!) KJV Thus, we who believe that Yeshua` (Jesus) is the Messiah (the Christ) of God, who are Gentiles, are grafted in as “branches ... grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, ... THEIR OWN olive tree!” That is, the Israel’s children’s "olive tree!" What good would it do to have EVERY CHRISTIAN become a “king?” Over whom would they reign? As you quoted it, the one who "OVERCOMES” is the one to whom the Messiah will grant the privilege to sit with Him upon His and His Father’s dais! The others who do NOT overcome are not given that standing, but that’s okay! Not everyone can win! If everyone could win, what value would there be in the privilege? The concept of the “body of Christ” is found in 1 Corinthians 12 and refers to the interaction of the members of a local church with each other.

Yes, this is speaking of the Millennium. Sorry Marilyn You are losing me now, I don't know where you are going with all this, looks like we are going to far ahead. It just gets too confusing. You can be blunt with me and get straight to the point. What is it exactly you don't agree on that I have stated? If we are to sort something out, it's best to go straight to that scripture and we can take a look at it instead of going all over the place, or the point gets lost, and I had to stop and think back what the subject is about again. So please paste the scripture in question, and show me where I went wrong. Thanks Sister.

The body of Christ consists only of believers in Christ. Believers in Christ who follow him will take part in the first resurrection. Israel are not in that category at the moment, for their part is for the Millennium. They will be joined to the body of Christ only then for they will spread his name throughout the whole earth, and are chosen to do this for that specific time period, a thousand years. The saints in the first resurrection will be raised into "spirit", like the angels. Israel will be "flesh". They will be flesh for a thousand years, having children, and they will die a ripe old age blessed. They will not be spirit during those thousand years, but worshiping "in the spirit of the Lord". When the thousand years are over, they will receive their change also. They will be made spirit at the 2nd judgement. Now we have all men that Christ has converted standing in their changed bodies, perfected, and spirit. God is a spirit. We will be just like him. This is what Rev 21:3 is speaking of, this time. Then the earth will be melted.

Hi Marilyn No, I am not "spirit" yet. I don't have my wings. I still have this flesh body that ages, gets old and can die! I only worship "in the spirit", for my change has not come. Maryilyn Jesus disappeared into thin air also. Spirit can do this. Spirit can materialise into flesh for a purpose, then go back into it's own body. At the resurrection, we are perfected. No more scars or defects. Jesus showed himself like the way that he did so that they knew it was him. Do you really think he has wounds in his body still? 1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Concerning the resurrection unto immortality there are three such occurrences. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: [1] Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s [2] at His coming, then comes [3] the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24 Being raised from the dead is not the same as being raised immortal. Understanding that helps clear up a lot of end times confusion. Correct, being raised does not automatically mean immortality ,the below verse illustrates this Revelation 20:12"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." These are those who have not as of yet put on immortality,thus standing a chance to die the 2nd death,which is the death of the soul.............

Montana Marv Not only unbelievers, but believers who were luke warm and did not get accepted in the first resurrection. Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Also, what about all the remnants of Israel who get brought into the millennial kingdom? They will be flesh, for they will be multiplying for a thousand years. They will have their change also, not immediately when they die, but in the 2nd judgement. Micah 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. I could go on. What about all the gentiles that Israel will teach during the millennium? Many more gentiles will be born during the thousand years and converted because of them. They all have their day of resurrection also, which will be in the 2nd judgement. Zechariah 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you. Isaiah 61:9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed. Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name. Hi Sister, If we are all one group, then why does the Lord differentiate between `nations, Jew & Gentile,` in the scriptures you quoted. Marilyn.

The thousand years comes AFTER the first resurrection. Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Makes chronological sense to me.

I love Muslims. They need salvation. I hate Islam, it is evil to the core.