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No just a small comment on the "Calvinism" aspect of the post, particularly the election/freewill/predestination part: Free will is not just a simple matter of free agency. It is way more nuanced than that. If by free will we mean that we have an inate ability to choose one thing over another, that is a simple idea, and hard to deny that we have it. Those who think that 'Calvinists' deny free will, and that God sovereignly directs every thing a person does, removing all choices or decisions, has not talked at length with very many Calvinists. There may be some Calvinists who are that extreme, but I have never met one. Calvinism no more removes free will from man, than non Calvinists remove salvation by grace as a doctrine. The idea here, is that if you believe, that you have to believe, or that you have to repent, to be saved, then you are believing that it is YOU who is responsible for your salvation, after all, it is you who did the believing and the repenting, that makes it your work, not God's work. I do not think that non-Calvinists deny salvation by grace, but some may not have thought it through. Either 1.God did the saving ( by grace, not works, lest anyone should boast ) or 2. God does the saving, based on your works (in which case it is not truly grace apart from works) or 3. You do the saving totally yourself, because you earned your salvation. Options 2 and 3 are not in scripture. Here, I think, is the problem. We don't like the idea that we had nothing to do with it. We are by nature, prideful, and we want to save ourselves, or at least partner with God in our salvation. That, I believe, robs God of the credit that only He deserves. Salvation is simple, God chooses some but not everyone, to believe and inherit salvation but he does not tell us upon what basis, or if there even is a basis. All He tells us is that it is for his own will, pleasure, decision, etc. He also tells us that frankly, it is not our business what he chooses to do with His creation (us included). Those who can accept His sovereignty, are often called Calvinists, a term that I do not find helpful, since Jesus, Paul, Peter and John (to mention a few) all spelled this out long before Calvin did. We make salvation complicated, when we make salvation out to be due to God's grace plus our actions. Salvation does not result from our actions, our action are the evidence of God's grace in ourh lives. On the other hand, we confuse the matter, by over simplifying free will, as though it is one thing with a yes or no answer. It is way more nuanced than that. First off, there are choices. There are choices to choose, but not always an ability to execute the choices. If you chose to flap you arms and fly like a bird, are you able to? Well, yes, you can make the choice to fly, but . . . you are still powerless to do so. So right there, you have choice, you have a free will. I do not think a Calvinist would say that you cannot make that choice. He might, however, be skeptical of your ability to carry out your plan to fly like a bird. The nature of the universe, prevents us from doing everything we might like to do. Wise people, do not choose to do things than cannot be done, On the other hand, God can, if He chooses, give you the ability to flap your arms and fly like a bird. That is a difference between true sovereign choice and free will, and the limited type of choices we can make, which are an entirely different category. Place a steak on a plate in front of a horse, and some straw on a plate in front of a tiger. Is it likely, that these animals will choose to eat what is in front of them? No, not to likely. What if you switch the plates? Different result altogether. What is the difference between these two scenarios? Well, similar to trying to flap your arms and fly, is has to do with the nature of things. Flying, violates the laws of nature, and to do that, would be super natural or extra natural - outside of the reality of the limitations than nature imposes. The horse and the tiger, also have a nature. They both have an ability to eat straw or meat, but they will choose in accordance with their natures. People, after the fall, have a sin nature, sometimes we call this the natural man, as opposed to supernatural, or mankind with a new nature. When you sin, do you do so by choice? When you stole a cookie from the cookie jar, was your hand moving by some force that you could not fight, or was it that you chose to disobey? Are you, as a fallen human, capable of living sinlessly? Rhetorical questions of course, we know the answers from our own experiences and they are consistent with scripture as well. We do not become sinners when we sin, we are already sinners, and because we are we do sin. Just as a horse eats straw, and a tiger eats meat, we sin, because that is consistent with our nature. Did you decide, what clothes you wore today? That was a free choice as well, but, your nature did not restrict that choice, Nothing in you nature really compells you to choose one color over another, or natural materials over synthetics, those sorts of things, our free will is more intact. Some choices can be made, truly freely, others, not so much. In sin, we can choose to not lie, this one time, or to not strike out in anger. We can resist taking an item belonging to someone else, but we cannot do it with 100% success, instead we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. Roman 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. 2 Tim 2:25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth These show it is God, who is active, and we who are unable. In John 1:12 to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. Whose will decided that believers become the children of God . . . is it the will of man and the flesh, or is it of God? Dozens of verses like these, demonstrate that while we may chose God, and we may love God, we only so so, because He first chose us, and first loved us. I used to rob God of the credit due Him, I used to think that my decision lead to me salvation, Now I praise God, that while I was still a sinner, still incapable of choosing Him, understanding Him, or even seeking Him, that He saved me, all on His own, by His choice, though I did not in the least deserve it or offer anything to merit being chosen. It was marvelous to come to that understanding, that He not only did this, before I came to repentance, before I believed, before I was born, but before the earth was even formed. How marvelous is that? Being chosen before all of these things, puts them way outside of the reach, of anything I ever could do as a free will choice, it was done in eternity, before I had a choice. Did I choose, sure, of course I did, but that was because I was chosen to choose. However, I was in the world, with a nature, that prevented me from choosing God. As Paul described me and you in Romans 8:7: "because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so" I was saved, because God chose to give me a new nature. By my free will, I chose to rebel against God, because it was my nature to do so. Then He gave me a new nature, so that consistent with that nature, I would also choose Him, still with free will. So, it is not that God violates free will, indeed, he frees you from rebellion against Him and enslavement to sin, to a freedom to be able to chose Him, and that does not rule out His sovereign choice of us, nor His predestination for us. Free will and predestination are not contrary, they are complimentary.

Hi WilliamL, Yes I believe that the Holy Spirit through John is addressing the Body of Christ - (Rev. 1: 6 & 7) telling us of God`s purposes for the three groups. `Jesus Christ....has made US kings & priests ` - the Body of Christ. ` & every eye will see Him,` - the nations (tribes mourning). `AND they ALSO who pierced Him.` - Israel. Thus we see the three groups that God has made. He NEVER includes the Body of Christ with the nations, so that is NOT the Body of Christ there as `every eye.` For we then read of `they also` meaning the Jews/Israel. We need to read in context & relation to what God`s purposes are for the three different groups. These are ALWAYS referred to individually & NEVER is the Body of Christ mixed with the nations. Marilyn.

from got questions.org Does it really matter whether we accept a “literal” interpretation of the Creation? The answer is “yes!” The gap theorists with their concept of the Luciferian flood believe that there was death before Adam, but the Bible declares unequivocally the opposite to be true. Romans 5:12 states that “sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin,” so to accept the concept of death before the time of Adam is to destroy the foundational message of the cross: “For just as through the disobedience of the one man [Adam] the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man [Jesus Christ] the many will be made righteous” (Romans 5:19). To advocate the concept of death before Adam sinned is diametrically opposed to Scripture’s explanation that death came after Adam sinned and became the necessity for man’s redemption. Genesis records a catastrophe responsible for destroying everything that had the “breath of life” in them, except for those preserved in the ark. Christ refers to the global flood in Noah’s day in Matthew 24:37-39, and Peter writes that just as there was once a worldwide judgment of mankind by water, so there will be another worldwide judgment, this time by fire (2 Peter 3). The theory of Lucifer's flood is completely without scriptural evidence and must be rejected.

lol, thanks for the laugh. That's a good suggestion, thank you.

Well at least we can agree on one thing.

And I presented to you that your "actual facts" were not so factual at all, and none of them contradicted the Bible. You seem to think that if something in the Book of 1 Enoch is not found in the Bible, that makes it contradictory. But this is not what the word contradictory means. And saying that I "don't hold the Bible in the same high regard" as Enoch is plain false witness against me.

If you shoot your gun wildly from the hip like you shoot your words, you are as much of a danger to patriots as enemies. Take this absurd statement: "the Catholic Church started twisting scripture to justify the use of the book." QUITE THE CONTRARY: the Catholic Church succeeded in suppressing the book so thoroughly that the only remaining full texts were to be found in Ethiopian churches. Then you quote "scholars" for your source that 1 Enoch was written in the 2nd century BC. Some scholars do say this, others do not. Neither have conclusive evidence one way or the other; rather both are opinions, most likely skewed by their pre-determined views. (Just like yours.) There is no more conclusive evidence for when Enoch was written (or begun to be passed down orally) than there is for the Torah. The earliest manuscript evidence for both comes from the Dead Sea Scrolls. Period. Your opinions stated as such are fine. But when opinions are stated as fact, without any evidence to back them up, then they become merely unfounded accusations, unworthy of this board.

It is clear that the original Book of 1 Enoch has been corrupted. So has the Book of Revelation: there are so many variant texts, more than any other NT book, that no one knows the precise original text. That said, such does not mean that there is no useful information contained in the texts of Enoch that we do have. It is faulty logic on it's face to automatically presume the contrary, as you do. You presume that the Book of 1 Enoch was composed 2 centuries before Christ, but have no proof for that statement. Others presume that the Torah was composed during the Babylonian captivity. Everyone is welcome to presume whatever they want.

Jude 14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” This is a quote Jude takes from Enoch 2:1 and 26:2. This isn't a teaching by Jude from Enoch? How do you figure? Incidentally, the Book of Enoch is found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, which were transcribed well over a century before Jude was born, not after he wrote this passage. As far as Catholicism justifying the use of the Book of Enoch, what is your source?

And so I suppose you don't care that Peter, the Lord's brother Jude, and Moses teach from it. They must not have been inspired either, according to your definition.

I guess you would consider Tertullian, Origen, Irenaeus, Athenagoras, Justin Martyr and Clement of Alexandria..... just wrong, for they and others did teach from it.

each to his/her own.... I guess I tend to agree with Tertullian, Origen, Irenaeus, Athenagoras, Justin Martyr and Clement of Alexandria..... but hey, that's just me.

None of it? So God does not back Jude quoting Enoch? Jude is not an inspired book?

Only from those with closed minds.

You will get some criticism over that bold part.

gdemoss Isaiah 33:6 And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD is his treasure.

I read it again today and again I am challenged! Do I believe that God both can and will protect and keep me under any and all conditions? When I look at my life and situations that arise that require such faith I see myself wavering. Even though past evidence suggests that I should not worry I find that I do not stand strong in believing that I will be protected. I have current life issues I am afraid to face for fear of consequence. I wish it wasn't so but it is. If I cannot face my current challenges boldly as one of Gods people because I am afraid that my sin has consequence because even forgiven sin has consequences then how is it that I would have faith that I would be made to stand in tribualtion? I would love to have Daniels confidence. I believe we are supposed too but I am afraid I fall short and think that I will just be another sheep led to the slaughter. And for that I feel ashamed and unworthy. God help me not to disgrace him.

I agree. And I oppose the Gap theory as trying to bridge atheism with theism. And again, the spirit realm was created first. This is not to be confused with a pre-Adamic physical creation! The spirit realm was in ruins if there were any ruins. And there was no death since spirit beings cannot die. For that matter, our spirits cannot die. So there was no death before Adam and the fall and there could not have been.

I do apologize, I am not saying that God or Yahweh lied at all at anytime, that would be wrong, by no means did I show that, I was showing in response to post, that God has given men task to do that would seem evil or not just, but in the end it is just and righteous, so our God is a awesome God, I wanted to show that by telling Abraham he needed t sacrifice issac, that it was done to test the faith and the loyalty to Yahweh that's really all,

Those who make dietary restrictions an issue are in fact opposing Christ and His apostles, and all that is revealed in the New Testament. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed (John 8:36).

you can't be saved unless Jesus is your Lord.... and you can fight over how that happens all day long.

I agree and don't see it as imperative that we are able to confirm when Stephen was murdered, it's just that if we knew for sure one way or the other then that would be something. Not knowing for sure certainly doesn't negate what you've laid out here. The 70 weeks passage is a bit of an enigma and your explanation fits the bill as it is. I still wonder though if the 3.5 year ministry of the two witnesses will involve ministering to those of the nation Israel who took flight when the AoD was set up and bring them to a place of repentance when Christ returns. Perhaps not though and the 490 years are completely finished as you and WilliamL conclude (for different reasons). Regardless of what the complete and accurate fulfillment all entails, I'm quite certain that we can scratch off of the list the notion that the man of sin confirms a peace treaty with Israel then breaks is midway through. That explanation is self-contradictory. It's impossible to have confirmed something for seven years when you quit confirming it after 3.5. Thanks for your insight, Serving.

Israel has not yet achieved the six tasks, benefits promised by the Prophecy of Dan 9:24 for them to do or receive. This Prophecy is not about them not doing or receiving the six tasks, but doing and receiving. The Prophecy says they have 70 Sevens of Week to accomplish or receive the benefits of them. PERIOD For Israel receives all these benefits at the Second Coming. Zech 13:9b - I will say; 'They are my people." and they will say; "The Lord is our God". The six benefits are received by Israel and the Holy City. Thus fulfilling the 70 Sevens. Salvation is upon them. In Christ Montana Marv

God told us many things would happen in the future.... we need to be watching for them.... all of prophecy. Should we submit to Gods will containing affliction, of course we should...... but we shouldn't go looking for it, and we shouldn't really bring it on ourselves.

Thanks Mevosper, I should have been clearer because I was concentrating on the possible National aspect of Christ's statement instead of the individual aspect which you alluded to above .. to which I agree with you wholeheartedly btw.

Thanks Daze, I did need to look up timelines though, and, apparently, the majority of timelines tend to agree with the date of Stephen's stoning of which I used, but just as importantly, there are still others that don't agree as I have found, so really, nobody is 100% sure .. which is why I am instead depending on the scriptures themselves as my guide for the signifier to the end of the week. So I am going by this presumption I posted earlier : Either 1) National Israel would be the ministers for this new covenant BY the 70 weeks completion .. OR .. 2) Someone else (Gentiles) would be after the 70 weeks. That presumption is according to the 6 conditions God paced upon Israel to fulfil within the 70 weeks. So to me, something had to happen on the last day of the 'week' before the covenant went out to the Gentiles if National Israel failed the conditions .. and the simple fact that Stephen's death was right before the persecutions began, which forced the disciples to flee out of Israel with the New Covenant, then scripturally, to me, that is the most solid & notable event there is to go with within the scriptures themselves. So even though it is not solid date wise (of which no one is btw for that 3 1/2 years after crucifixion), I personally find it solid doctrinally wise .. and frankly, That's all we really need in an ideal world where we all saw eye to eye .. but understandingly we don't .. nevertheless, that timeline I used is as solid as it can ever get majority wise, unfortunately .. short of hopping in a time machine and witnessing it for ourselves.

Well, in the OP, there are two questions asked, you can see them at the end of the post. All I am looking for, is not so much the answer to the questions, as I am interesting in seeing how other people answer those questions, that I why I am pretty much absent in the thread, not here to stir up trouble, not here to debate, not here to make a point really, just interested in seeing what pages people are on.

you have two questions I took it as two things sorry I think I just looked right over that, maybe you can help structure what you are looking for ? thank you

I am sorry sinnersaved, did someone say there are only two things to watch for? If so, I missed that, and can't find where the was said.

two things only to watch for ? I can think of a whole bunch of them , but let me try to think at the top of my head on this, I believe we are to watch , out and be alert, for the evil one has already come, and the delusion and the deception of the people is one, second, we know what is about to happen and we need to be prepared and ready to endure until the end , and when we have seen and go through all this , when the signs indicate the scriptures of prophecy as written for our warning, then we need to be watching for the return of the master, for the redemption of our souls , and the coming of the lord, ! so it is to be watching the times that are aligning to the prophecies, and warnings spoken not to be deceived. and two,- while in this trouble and tribulation the world falling away in its sinful and evil ways, we need to be watching for the return of Christ, for he draws near and we know that the time is at hand.

The same thing is spoken of here: Rev. 6:15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 “For the great day of His wrath came, and who is able to stand?” The Lord appears, every eye sees him, the elect ascend, the Jews are converted, the heathen wail, the Wrath begins.

You missed a very important part of what John also said, which totally demolishes your argument: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. If what you surmise is true, Christians would be weeping, and wailing, and mourning, and lamenting at the Rapture. The absurdity of equating the Resurrection/Rapture with the Second Coming should be obvious. So back to square one.

First of all, Last Daze nailed the answer IMHO. The above Matthew 24:30 quote must be paired with the one below, because both refer to all the tribes of the earth SEEING Jesus, and there is no scriptural reason to believe that will happen twice : Rev. 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Every eye will see him, not just Jews and the heathen. Everyone includes us. Remember that John here was addressing the Church.

Thank you for the sincere honest question. I have been working to sort out all of those questions myself. I live in a world of deception that even permeates the church itself. I have experienced self deception through various means. So I do not accept testimonies that I am given of these accounts as true or false. I accept that those who tell about them believe them. Jesus said that no one could take his life. That no power is given over another except it come from above and he is above all. I have been studying to understand because this is a very hard to hear concept but as I have reveiwed my life I have been able to discern where I had made decisions based upon self that have put me in a position to be harmed. We are judged for every idle word. How easy is it for me to slip up and seek to save my own life and lose it yet appear to be some martyr? Yes, and I would probably believe I was doing the will of God too. I am still learning.

Every exhortation to watch and be ready is meant for believers, and is connected to the imminent return of Christ FOR His saints. We don't have to look for signs, but to watch ourselves, and our own readiness to meet Christ and stand before His Judgment Seat.

If I could, I would add one thought to this (nice, work by the way). "...then the forgiveness will be of the Gentiles instead." I would say "forgiveness will be of the Gentiles also" rather as the atonement was for all man. First to the Jew then to the Gentile.

I find this a little odd, as Jesus "fate" was sealed before the creation of earth, was it not? And what do you make of all the testimonies of people that have died as a result of their testimony of Christ? That it is the persecution of Christians that sometimes brings others to a saving knowledge of Christ? "Keep watch" and "be on the alert", I wonder if it is encouragement for us to be continually praying, to stay focused on God and His purposes?

Very well stated Serving. Do we have any clues as to when Stephen was murdered? Or only that if falls within the realm of possibility.

Anyways .. I don't want to hijack this post more than I have already .. sorry Daze. Just wanted to put out there another view. Regards.

Here's something interesting Matthew 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Matthew 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Sound familiar? I wouldn't be surprised if Jesus was really alluding to Israel's 70 weeks deadline / decree there on a deeper level .. and if Israel didn't get their act together by the 70th sevens and receive Messiah, then forgiveness will be of the Gentiles instead. (until the set time anyway when "He shall choose Israel again")

Amen Joe, nice. Always liked that one .. PTL God bless.

I never thought they should? I've never associated Matt 24:15-20 with the midst of week (Crucifixion), nor do I still. This happened mid week though : Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And this : Zechariah 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. Mark 14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered. But .. I've never included Matt 24 nor can I see why it should be included 'midweek' either?

I think watching and being alert involves discerning the signs of the time, preparing accordingly, and being vigilant. The Pharisees and Sadducees missed it the first go-around. And in the morning, ‘There will be a storm today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Do you know how to discern the appearance of the sky, but cannot discern the signs of the times? Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Matthew 24:32-33 After discerning the signs of the times, we should prepare and help others prepare for the unprecedented time of tribulation. And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? Luke 12:42 Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent. For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. Matthew 25:2-4 We should persist and be vigilant in redeeming the time and not let the things of this world drag us down. Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. Matthew 24:12-13 Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap. Luke 21:34 As I see it.

I believe we are to be watching for the coming of Jesus as well as the signs of His return. Yes, we should be ready and willing to do God's will whatever happens.

The justice which you and I richly deserve was administered at the Cross. Christ took all the wrath of God against sin and paid the penalty in full. Therefore we are already under grace, regardless of how bad we feel about our sins and failures. As to the one you hate, God will show you how to deal with that issue for your own spiritual health.

Were it funny, and not seriously tragic.... I could laugh at this. The deceit that we have in this World has always been here but until recently it was balanced with equal doses of honesty and rationality. But the lies that we keep hearing today are almost off the scale. We are definitely in the End Times. Who could ever imagine that we would be listening to victims being portrayed as villains, and the enemies of Israel portrayed as being Israel themselves - and supposedly sane people buying it? And believe me... they will - not just Muslims, but Israel-haters Worldwide will really fall for this. We are all living in a Global lunatic asylum. I drop my head in despair sometimes. I can't wait for Jesus to come along and restore sanity, because frankly, I'm getting really tired of listening to this sort of stuff.

Thanks everyone.

Corrie ten Boom often repeated the words, "look around and be distressed, look within and be depressed, look to God and be at rest" . A great saying you may say but when we look at life and events that have brought us to the point of distress and depression, they are often things over which we have no control. They are things said or done by others to us or by us to ones we love or simply world events, over which once done we have no control...they are done and forgotten by others but kept in our thoughts and rehashed by us. This only serves to destroy our peace of mind and the joy as Christians that we should be enjoying. This is the time to look to our Heavenly Father and say, "Father, you know the anger and frustration and hurt and resentment I harbour. I want to be free of the thoughts of the past and the frustrations that stress and depress me. I can do nothing on my own to be free of them. You are my Father who loves and cherishes me as no one else can., take my thoughts that trouble me and free me to enjoy the life lived in knowing your Son as my Lord. I leave it all at the feet of my Lord and Saviour, Jesus, and go on in Your strength not mine. If I turn back to the things that have so stressed and depressed me, remind me Father, that Jesus took them all on Himself on the cross they no longer are mine but His. I AM FREE. Free to go on day by day living a life of contentment paid for by Jesus my Lord. Remind me Lord if I forget." Spend time reading the Bible and listening to Gospel songs that fill your heart with joy and teach you about the love of God.

I agree with Shiloh in that a Christian can't be possessed, however if we do still have some sin in our lives, it leaves a door open to be bothered by or harassed by demons. And if you are leading a really good Christian life, they will mess with you in any number of ways. But Possess where you have no control over things........ no I don't believe they can do that.

While I do believe that Christians cannot be possessed, it should not be thought that the devil leaves them alone either. Sometimes, the tendency is to act as though the devil cannot challenge a believer...I don't mean the devil personally of course...but demonic spirits This is not something to fear as we know we have the victory already won by our Savior. Unfortuneatly, Christian bookstores harbor an inordinate amount of books by authors who propose far more about the devil then the Bible allows. The Bible does not ignore the devil or his interaction with believers, but the focus is on Christ's victory over the devil and our victory in turn if we are in Christ.