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Yes, that's part of it. It's also that God says that homosexuality is an abomination to him. This is a very strong word, which is reserved for the most heinous sins, in God's sight.

Lonely? God is with you, and Paul teaches us to pray constantly, as I just mentioned on one of your other threads. When you are in second grade, you can't understand tenth grade math. And so it might be with your purpose - you might not understand it yet. Raising your kids properly is a wonderful purpose.

In the darkness there was a light. Sudden moment of despair, comprehending all. Father! Father! I cried, and in an instant saved. Great Mercy laid hold of me, and bore me up. At once was I giddy, rising high upon His train. I laughed, and shouted His name to the heavens. He did with all joy carry me to His fold. My feet He set upon the Rock, and understanding gave. I saw Him. He bore the wounds to tell of it. I wept of Him. Forgive me Lord? I asked. Forgiveness all He spake

I have had a number of debates with folks claiming that the creation account between Genesis 1&2 are different z this showing that Genesis can't be judge's as an historical account of creation. I have answers for them, but before I share I was wondering about your thoughts on the subject.

California resident dies several hours after receiving COVID-19 vaccine | Fox News An individual in California who tested positive for COVID-19 in late December and was vaccinated Thursday died several hours after receiving the shot, the Placer County Sheriff's office announced Saturday. "There are multiple local, state, and federal agencies actively investigating this case; any reports surrounding the cause of death are premature, pending the outcome of the investigation," the sheriff's office said. It is unclear if the individual received the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine. So a person dies from the vaccine and we are not even allowed to know which vaccine they received? Earlier, batches of the Moderna vaccines were pulled from use after fewer than 10 people who received shots at a San Diego vaccination site needed medical care, possibly due to rare but severe allergic reactions. On Wednesday, it was deemed safe to resume using the Moderna vaccine. Trust in the Lord not Satan

Sabbath 8/3/19 Seventh Day Baptist Edgewater Minister Marie’s sermon “What Did Jesus Do to Make Decisions?” Matthew 4:1-11 We can learn some great things from Jesus to make great decisions for ourselves. Several times a day we are called to make decisions. Some are little and some are big life changing decisions. Some could be what’s for dinner or will I drive home drunk or will I decide to commit adultery. These decisions can make a big change in one’s life. Many people, when they reach a crossroad in their life, make a bad decision. Making good decisions in life can be hard and sometimes confusing. Principles from Jesus for Decision Making 1) Jesus Understood His Purpose: We must know our goals and have a sense of purpose for our lives. In Luke 19:10 Jesus knew His purpose and knew what He was here for. Many people wanted to make Jesus a king to overthrow the Roman government. Jesus knew this was not part of His purpose so He didn’t do it. Jesus did not allow a hurried decision to make a change in His life purpose. 2) Jesus Heeded God’s Word: More than twenty times Jesus said “It is written” and He quoted scriptures from God’s Word, word for word. *Vs 4 = Jesus said it is written, man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God. *Vs 7 = Jesus said it is written, thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God. *Vs 10 = Jesus said it is written, thou shall worship God only. When Satan came to tempt Jesus, Jesus used the Word of God to chase Satan off. Most bad decisions can be avoided by heeding and listening to God’s Word. 3) Jesus Considered Others Before Himself: Jesus would put other people’s needs first. Many times He healed the people’s sick children that were brought to him. Many of us feel tired but we must unselfishly help other people. 4) Jesus Honored God’s Will: Jesus said He did what God told Him to do. Whatever the Father told Jesus to say or do, that’s what He did. Jesus did and said the will of God. In many scriptures, Jesus said all that He was doing was what God had told Him to do. Jesus did as the Father willed Him to do. You will never go wrong by honoring God’s will. 5) Jesus Spent a Lot of Time in Prayer to God: Jesus went to God in prayer before He made decisions. We need to go to God in prayer before we make decisions. Don’t go to God AFTER we make a decision then ask God to bless it. Go to God in prayer BEFORE we make a decision because God knows what’s best for us. AMEN

This is a good word and I'm in agreement with you. Let us remember, then, how the Lord loved us first. The Lord loved us even when we were dead in our trespasses and this truth applies to us all, whether we struggle with homosexuality or not. We ought to be moved with compassion toward one another and refrain from condemnation, knowing that we are not condemned ourselves, for Christ Jesus justifies and sanctifies those who are in Him. My counsel for a brother or sister who struggles with homosexuality or the scourge of transhumanism is simple: I will help bear that burden with you. Not all homosexuals are unrepentant; we look to the world and witness precisely what you write about: the pride flags and the pride parades, all snares of the fowler designed to trap the unwary and vulnerable. I stand with brethren who suffer and struggle, serving as a living example that nothing is impossible to our Lord Jesus Christ. There was a time when I couldn't speak! And though I suffer still the Lord comforts me, reminding me that we suffer for only a little while. It is this suffering that brethren struggle with the most. Ah, but it is our place on this earth to suffer... But only for a little while.

Sometimes all you can do is continue to put one foot in front of the other and not give up. Have faith that God will reveal in time.

Sunday 8-22-21 Elul 13, 5781 1st. day of the weekly cycle, 63rd. Summer Day Our Daily Bread Today 22 August 2021 Devotional – Not Seeking Revenge Our Daily Bread Today 22 August 2021 Devotional, Sunday Message By Sheridan Voysey (Our Daily Bread Ministries) Click To Read Previous ODB Ministries Devotional Message Topic: Not Seeking Revenge Today’s Scripture: 1 Samuel 24:1–4,14–18 Key Verse: [Saul said], “The Lord delivered me into your hands, but you did not kill me.” – 1 Samuel 24:18 Bible in a Year: Psalm 110-112; 1 Corinthians 5 Daily Hope with Rick Warren 22 August 2021 Devotional – Three Things to Pray in Your Pain INSIGHT: Threatened by David’s successes (1 Samuel 18:5–9, 30) and resentful of God’s blessings upon him, Saul tried to kill him (vv. 10–12; 19:2, 9–11). Pursued by Saul, David escaped to the mountainous stronghold of En Gedi (23:26–29). In this episode, David had the opportunity to kill Saul, but refrained because Saul was “the Lord’s anointed” (24:6). Later, David had yet another opportunity, but he chose not to for the same reason. Since Saul was “the Lord’s anointed,” only God Himself had the authority to take his life (26:9–11). David wouldn’t take revenge, but left room for God’s judgment (see Romans 12:19). Our Daily Bread Today 22 August 2021 Devotional Message: The farmer climbed into his truck and began his morning inspection of the crops. On reaching the farthest edge of the property, his blood began to boil. Someone had used the farm’s seclusion to illegally dump their trash—again. As he filled the truck with the bags of food scraps, the farmer found an envelope. On it was printed the offender’s address. Here was an opportunity too good to ignore. That night he drove to the offender’s house and filled his garden with not just the dumped trash but his own! Revenge is sweet, some say, but is it right? In 1 Samuel 24, David and his men were hiding in a cave to escape a murderous King Saul. When Saul wandered into the same cave to relieve himself, David’s men saw a too-good-to-ignore opportunity for David to get revenge (vv. 3–4). But David went against this desire to get even. “The Lord forbid that I should do such a thing to my master,” he said (v. 6). When Saul discovered that David chose to spare his life, he was incredulous. “You are more righteous than I,” he exclaimed (vv. 17–18). As we or our loved ones face injustice, opportunities to take revenge on offenders may well come. Will we give in to these desires, as the farmer did, or go against them, like David? Will we choose righteousness over revenge? Reflect & Pray When have you most felt like getting even with someone? How can David’s response guide you as you seek justice for yourself and others? Jesus, lover of our enemies, may I seek justice Your way. Visit odbu.org/SF107to learn more about finding personal peace in forgiveness. Suddenly It’s Not a Struggle – Joel Osteen Our Daily Bread Today 22 August 2021 Devotional, Sunday Message. Our Daily Bread Ministries (ODB) is a Christian organization founded by Dr. Martin De Haan in 1938. It is based in Grand Rapids, Michigan, with over 600 employees. It produces several devotional publications, including Our Daily Bread. (Visited 13 times, 13 visits today) Tags: our Daily Bread 2021 Love always, Walter and Debbie

"But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" Matthew 5:44

A little update. After much prayer, my husband suddenly changed his mind. We told the truth and followed all the rules.

Why would any Christian worth their salt throw their lot in with Darwin and Dawkins. Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand the worlds were created by the word of God, in order that what is seen did not come into existence from what is visible. [LEB]

Praying. I think everyone feels some kind of pain. I personly dont have friends at this time. I had in the past. But there gone now. I feel like life is a popularity contest which is good for some. Anyway our purpose is to love the lord. He makes his home in our heart. He sees us as his children that he cares about. Which we are. If God did not want us he would not have given us faith in his son. Our purpose is a high calling. We will be glorfied. And be like christ. That is the blessed hope. But in this life before that happens wecmight suffer in many ways. Just live for christ. And keep near to him.

The beatitudes speak healing, is one thought.

A blessing to read, brother. Lovely and beautiful!

I think this is going to be another short conversation. Here, I ask you a question about God bring Israel back into existence in 1948 after 1878 years and you continue to ignore direct questions and continue to redirect the conversation to the spiritual return to Christ. If you don't want to discuss what I ask, just say so.

I used to think that Ron Wyatt made some amazing finds. I then did research and realized that he may have been sincere, but I believe he made himself believe things that weren't there. I think he began to think of himself as a great adventurer. It appears that he may have made up or exaggerated his findings. I do believe he did come across some legit discoveries. I just think it's interesting that for some of his claims he produced no evidence when the time came.

Why is it a surprise that the secular and atheist archeologists are always looking in the wrong places? When Ron looked, he looked in his Bible first. Is it really a surprise that he found things others did not? When Ron found Mt. Sinai, it was actually scorched on the top as if the whole top were a giant blaze of fire; it's still black and charred today. When Ron found Sodom and Gomorrah, the cities were literally ash. How much heat does it take to turn dirt, stone, brick and metal to ash so that when you try to pick up what looks like stone, it crumbles like kitchen flour in your hands? It would have to be much hotter than lava. Plus he found millions of balls of brimstone (ultra pure sulfur) all over the place in these cities, as if it rained them. When he found Noah's Ark, it was exactly the right size, complete with anchor stones but I guess some want 4000 year old wood to still look like wood? When he found the Ark of the Covenant (which is supposedly still there and was shown to Jewish authorities), is it not interesting that Christ's blood apparently dripped from the cross down a channel, in secret, directly onto the Mercy Seat of the Ark just as sacrificial blood would have been placed by a priest? I don't see that Ron wanted fame or fortune in these finds, he just wanted to show the evidence of the Bible. Maybe God knowing his heart allowed this?

Perhaps you are unaware that the Greek word translated "wind", in the KJV, means "wind" or "spirit" - either translation is correct. The same goes for "born again": the Greek can be translated as "born again", or "born from above" - either is correct. Thayer's Greek Lexicon anothen {an'-o-then} 1) from above, from a higher place 1a) of things which come from heaven or God 2) from the first, from the beginning, from the very first 3) anew, over again P.S. The Authorised Version (a.k.a. KJV) is not perfect, but it is far better than most modern translations. There may be individual verses in which this or that translation improves upon the AV, but, overall, the AV is one of the best.

Would you say this if an employer demanded a non-drinker consume alcohol, demanded a Jew to eat pork or simply required an employee to sign a non-binding statement of allegiance to a given political party or religion? It seems to me this argument is valid only in the context of the original employment agreement. Employers cannot arbitrarily require employees to do whatever they like, including receive vaccines.

(Psalms 71:6) Upon you I have leaned from before my birth; you are he who took me from my mother's womb. My praise is continually of you. (Psalms 71:7) I have been as a portent to many, but you are my strong refuge. (Psalms 71:8) My mouth is filled with your praise, and with your glory all the day. [ESV] (Ephesians 1:11) In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, (Ephesians 1:12) so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. [ESV]

Zechariah 7:9-10 tells us His instructions.

Only through the indwelling Holy Spirit and by praying in the Spirit.

This, very very much. Forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to be around them, especially if they're continuing in undesirable behaviors.

I can relate somewhat. Though far from abusive (quite the opposite really, for which I praise God), my mom is like so many; lip service to Christianity without any real heart change. It's hard to know how to witness to people like that, who believe they already are Christians.

I read the Matthew 7 advise your father gave you because I was wondering what it was that he was saying to you. Reading it now I can see that he was likely inciting a sense of your failing in some way - but that is a foolish premise because you are his daughter and not his mother. One of my favourite verses in the Scripture comes from that passage. “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him! V11 This whole passage is written for parents and not for children - it is written to incite a proper spiritual meaning and allude to natural facts of parenting in reflection that God is clearly more "good" than we are - and yet we can for all that do good things. Of course the passage is intensely pertinent to how parents walk. Jesus wasn't concerned about children other than to tell the disciples that they are more fit for the kingdom of heaven than are many others who are adults. In verse eleven I see that Jesus is simply getting straight to the point. He tells them that they are evil - and yet they can do good things. Just as your father should read the entirety of what he is giving his children - so should he also see that he is evil as God reckons these things - by understanding - that when he left your mother and took another woman he also left you and your brother also - and that kind of feeding you is of course harmful. You know this and your words express it clearly. Your father is utilising Scripture to teach you what he perceives as your own failing in seeking to tell him how you feel about his choices in life - But he is also NOT acknowledging that he is accountable for you and not you for him. Of course you are no longer a little child and so being fitted for the kingdom is being addressed in that adult meaning. In that sense we have to look to Christ as our entrance - and that is the narrow way of Matthew chapter seven. Your father in that meaning is no longer your teacher. Your mother is in a different place because biblically her entrance into the kingdom - whilst predicated in the same faith meaning of Christ crucified for sin - is outworked in keeping the home and looking after her children. And you sense that also because you speak of her as being born again. Yet you also express that you are an orphan. So true Sister. You are now an orphan and so you can look to God alone. I told my daughter one time when she was having to submit to my authority as her father that she should be thrilled - she looked at me incredulously and asked all offended like - "And why?" So I said, "because one day I will give you to your husband in marriage and then I will have no more authority over you." She cheered up no end. Why then are you an orphan Sister? It is because your mother must look to her son who is at home - and because you have a husband. In Christ

Thanks BK111. You're right. Other one, true. I'm not in the US though, I'm in Europe. Point still taken though!

Scriptures which speak of not judging another regarding sabbath keeping, can be applied to this issue as well. Because, the Lord knows who are His and whether we are pleasing Him or not. Whether we use one spelling or pronunciation over another is something each person must decide. Whether we esteem certain foods over another, esteem certain days over another or esteem certain spellings over another. Scripture says God has accepted us all in the same way. And that is through the work of Christ on the cross. Whether I use Jesus or a use the Hebrew or Greek pronunciation, you still know who I am speaking of. God is fully able to let each of us know whether we are doing wrong, or we are pleasing him. We are NOT called to be language cops or morality cops, but to share the gospel message with the lost.

In John 8:11 Jesus told the adulterous woman, "Your sins are forgiven. Go and sin no more." Matthew 12:33 “A tree is identified by its fruit. If a tree is good, its fruit will be good. If a tree is bad, its fruit will be bad. 34 You brood of snakes! How could evil men like you speak what is good and right? For whatever is in your heart determines what you say. 35 A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart." Those who live continually in a sinful life, no matter what the sin, will be held accountable for their sins. When speaking of the believer, many times Jesus talked about the "branches" that are thrown into the fire and that the "fruit" produced is a part of the life of the follower of Jesus. The unbeliever and the unrepentant will be sent to the "lake of fire". Colossians 3:5 (NLT) So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Revelation 9:21 (NLT) And they did not repent of their murders or their witchcraft or their sexual immorality or their thefts. 1 Timothy 1:10 (NLT) The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching Revelation 22:15 (NLT) Outside the city are the dogs—the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idol worshipers, and all who love to live a lie. 1 Corinthians 6:18 (NLT) Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body. There are many more scriptures regarding sexual immorality and the other sins that anger God. We are told to live a life of holiness and to not be "yoked" with the unbeliever. Witnessing and loving others into the kingdom of God is our mission once we turn our lives over to Jesus and become one of his followers. We are never asked by the Lord to accept and condone sin as normal lifestyle or continue to live a life of sin when we accept his gift of salvation. We are told to become pure and holy like refined gold. Job 23:10 (NLT) “But he knows where I am going. And when he tests me, I will come out as pure as gold. Zechariah 13:9 (NLT) I will bring that group through the fire and make them pure. I will refine them like silver and purify them like gold. They will call on my name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘These are my people,’ and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God.’”

Einstein was Jewish, and Not an Atheist.

Oh dear. Another place where people think people die or suffer or get sick because of lack of faith, even faithful Christians being told they were false and not born again cos they got sick. I should not have come back here through responding to someone saying I don't have enough faith to speak in tongues. Seems like I am not a Christian then.

Those dead buildings are not His church Words r important ?

As we are just exiting the annual time period of Halloween and the Day of the Dead (which appears to be growing in popularity among non Hispanics), I would be interested in the reasoning that Christians have that allow them to conscientiously participate in these activities. Thanks!

My only objections to Halloween are the rampant commercialism and the deplorables who poison kid's candy. I avoid it merely out of not having kids and also not wishing to stuff the pockets of greedy corporations. I'd back up Lady Kay's statement. So long as someone isn't doing any witchcraft or busting in people's windows to kill their black cats, it's just folks having fun.

I would be interested in knowing this also!

But as for me and my house, we will serve..................?????

Your short but to the point statement says a lot. We are reminded in the bible to have NOTHING to do with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11. However, you would find right here on this forum, many who sees nothing in participating with the festivities that is associated with hellowen. They claim, as long as your heart is not being submissive to the things of evil, they see nothing wrong with taking part in a tradition that has been with them for a long time. Many also do not want their children to miss out on the youthful fun, as they do not want their children to "miss out" on the fun side of the events. If they take the time to see what it represents and it is opposite to what the christian is as to the bible, then we would see clearly and ask the question "what has light to do with darkness". Now, some will toss and fro with comments as "here we go again with this topic", as expected this time around, someone is sure to bring it up and rightly so as one of my favorite author Mr. Thomas Brooks says in his book "Precious remedies against satan devices", that satan presents the bait, but hides the hook. Be careful Christian of the wiles of the devil and his schemes to woo you into his den and you masquerade in his antics and lies.

These are good points to bring up. Just speaking personally, I did notice that after reading this post and questioning it's significance I felt like how could I manage to go through trials seven times worse than some things I've already been through. Scary thought really. i did encourage you stormy612, but I'm not sure because I'm seeing that this stuff can come from ourselves or even the dark side so it's hard to say if it's really God.

I have been thinking about this a lot. Doing my best to open my mind and view the perspective of the scientist vs. a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. So, like the atheists read the Bible ( still not sure why ) I took it upon myself to attempt their perspective. Now don't all jump on me. Not all atheists are scientists, however, the thought process seems to be the same. For example: An excerpt from 2003 Foundation for Critical Thinking. Please bear with me on this since, I've had to make a "temporary shift" in my perception so that I can really try to understand how a human being cannot believe in God. Not just any god or gods, or mythology goddesses, but THE God. The Creator of the Universe. Before I recite the excerpt. Think about this. How small the world must look to the astronauts in space. The further they get from it, the smaller it becomes. As they enter space, there is a universe that is beyond what we can see. And our Creator can look down upon the earth and know each one of us better than we know ourselves. Now you who need proof and evidence, are more "thinkers" of "The Logic of Rationality", "The Logic of Egocentrism" The Logic of Egocentrism: a self contained lofic. To itself, it appears logicial. But focusing on its logic we can figure out how it functions. We can figure out it purpose, assumptions, point of view, etc. But let's get back to Scientific Thinking: To be precise in speaking of casual relationships, scientists must distinguish different forms of relationships. One set of distinctions essential to scientific thinking are 1)sufficient causes, 2) necessary causes, 3) necessary and sufficient cause and 4) contributory causes. One illustration: 1) If smoking were a sufficient cause of lung cancer, everyone who smoked would get lung cancer. 2) If smoking were a necessary cause of lung cancer, only smokers would get lung cancer; non smokers would never get it 3) If smoking were both a suffcient and necessary cause, everyone who smoked, and only those who smoked would get lung cancer. 4) If smoking were a contributing cause of lung cancer, other things held constant, smokers would have a higher rate of lung cancer than non smokers, which of course they do. Universal Intellectual Standards to Sound Scientific Thinking; Clarity; Could you elaborate further on that point? Could you express that point in another way? Could you give me an illustration? Clarity is a gateway standard. If a statement is unclear, we cannot determine whether it is accurate or relevant. In fact, we cannot tell anything about it because we don't yet know what it is saying? Accuracy; Is that really true? How could we check that? How could we find out if that is true? A statement can be clear but not accurate as in "most creatures with a spine of over 300 pounds in weight." Precision; Could you give me more details? Could you be more specific? A statement can be both clear and accurate, but not precise, as in "The solution in the beaker is hot." (We don't know how hot it is.) Relevance; How is that connected to the question? How does that bear on the issue? Intellectual Standards in Scientific Thinking; Clarity; Could you elaborate further? Accuracy; How could we check on that data or test that theory? Precision; Could you be more specific? Relevance; Hos does the data bear on the question? Depth; What factors make this a difficult scientific problem? BREADTH: (my fav) Do we need to look at this from another perspective? Do we need to consider another point of view? Do we need to look at his in other ways? Logic; Are all the data consistent with each other? Significance; Is this the central idea to focus on? Fairness; Do I have a vested interest in this issue which keeps me looking at it objectively? Science, appears to me, one the biggest obstacles in coming to know that our Creator, our Father sent His Son Jesus, to suffer and die on the cross for our sins. There are facts of His walking the earth, His performing miracles, His resurrection after three days of being buried in a tomb. These are facts, not scientific theory. Eyewitness accounts. Compared to Science, "I am the Truth, The Way, and the Light" "Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened" He stands outside knocking. Do Scientists need to look at another point of view, yes!! Another perspective? Yes!! Do scientists have too much invested in their theory's and need for proof and evidence in this issue, it and not Faith is what blinds them to the truth? Me thinks so. And here is why: 2003 Foundation for Critical Thinking: Unscientific and pseudo-scientific thinking come from the unfortunate fact that humans do not naturally think scientifically, though they often think they do. Further more, we become explicity aware of our unscientific thinking only if trained to do so. We do not naturally recognize our assumptions, the unscientific way we use information, the way we interpret data, the source of our concepts and ideas, the implications of our unscientific thought. We do not naturally recognize our unscientific perspective. End: What does this mean to you? I'll give you my perspective. I was never trained to think scientifically because my spirit has been calling all my life. Jesus was knocking at my door and I finally, after egocentric theory bombed and I learned that my life is not my own but is in full control of the the Lord. After expecting different results by doing the same actions, I was on treadmill going nowhere. It isn't until we change internally, become awakened to the possibility that (forgetting religion) but focus on the facts of Jesus Christ will we change from mere mortal to a Living Spirit among many like minded, who have gone that extra mile, and allowed God's Spirit to be the source of our wisdom, insight and knowledge. Faith is where it begins, as it is a most precious gift. Peace

God and Marriage : Two Become One Gen 1:27 And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him. He created them male and female. In the beginning God created one man and one woman. One couple bonded by God to create and populate the earth. The sanctity of this relationship was sealed by God. Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh. From the very beginning God joined man and woman in spiritual bonding. We are no longer individuals with our own desires and our own paths, we have become one. A joining that carries the weight of divine edict. Matthew 19:6-7 Therefore they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. They said to Him, Why did Moses then command to give a bill of divorce and to put her away? He said to them, Because of your hard-heartedness Moses allowed you to put away your wives; but from the beginning it was not so. No man

shyguy, i have to disagree or bring my side up at least.... i came from a marriage that started out with whom i thought was a christian...well, to save time..i will say he wasn't... He abused me but being one who did not believe in divorce..i stayed with him... we were married six years and i was abused (mentally, physically, verbally, emotionally) everyday for 5 of them... he also abused our son for the last 1 and a half... He abused him physically and verbally... yet, i still did not leave him...i was looked upon as a horrible mother for allowing it to happen... but i prayed that it would all get better. On Jan. 1 , 2002 he left us while we where still asleep... i looked for him but, he had ran to another state... I tried to get us back together..but he wanted no part of it... I remained married to him for another year and a half...in which i tried to justify how a divorce could happen. I hated the idea of being divorced... it was against God's Word as i read it. Well, the divorce happened... and afterwards i did a lot of praying and improving my life with the Lord.... Now, if i understand you say that Fred and I are against God's will.... well, I believe that by following God's will is what brought us together. Are you saying that our testimony of getting together here at Worthy...is actually false in some way.... oops then i better let George know that we will have to decline the idea of posting a story on her about it... I may be coming across rude and if i am well, i apologize.... It just hits a nerve when i know how much prayer and talking with the Lord we did before we just jumped right on in to remarriage.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with the view that no one can remarry. I was forced into divore by my ex-wife. She filed without even consulting me on the issue and did so under the will of her parents. I had never planned on getting divorced. It went against everything I believed. The Lord showed me several verses with regards to my situation: 1 corinthians 7:12-15 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace." This allowed me to accept the divorce under this scripture. For who is responsible for the divorce (meaning the person who either physcially committed adultry, was abusive or did something like what my ex-wife did) inevitably their relationship with Christ can only be in serious question as a result of their own actions. I truly believe it is NOT God's will for a marriage to end in divorce. However, I also believe that it is possible to marry outside of the will of God. Anything done outside of His will can only end in death and destruction....and marriages are no exception to this. It is true...that according to Christ, if a husband and wife divorce and remarry, that they have both committed adultry. Christ also says that whosoever has had an angry thought toward another has committed murder within their own heart. Or whosoever has looked upon a member of the opposite sex in a lustful way has already committed adultry within their own heart. The fact of the matter is that we are all adulterers, murderers and idolaters. We are all born as filthy wrags before the eyes of God and it is only through Christ that we are cleansed of our sins. Even Christ said in John 10:8 "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers" We are all thieves and robbers...by our very nature. So when someone sites scripture that a divorce can only be scriptural if adultry is involved, fails to realize that we are all adulterers by Christ's own words. God's expectations are so high that it is impossible for any person to meet His expectations except one.....Christ. The problem I have with the notion that anyone who is divorced and/or remarries fails God is that those who believe that fail to realize that we all fail God by default.

Shy, Good topic! It seems marriage these days is treated like yesterday's newspaper-something that can be discarded when you don't want it anymore. How many Hollywood celebrities do we hear about that have been married multiple times? Standard everyday fare in the afternoon is a show called Divorce Court. What a sad state of affairs we've gotten into. However, I do take a different stance on the idea of remarriage. While I certainly do not take variance with what the Scripture says, I don't see any Biblical injunction against remarriage where a marriage ended in divorce due to the unfaithfulness of a spouse or desertion (Pauline Privilege as it's known). That would almost seem a punishment to the offended party. I'm certainly not advocating remarriage in any instance of divorce, just saying I don't think in this case remarriage is a sin. Paul said in the case of desertion, the believer was under no bondage in such cases. What about those who remarry after committing adultery or walking out a marriage for no reason? Is God's arm too short to forgive? It's not the unpardonable sin. I'm not advocating a "get out of jail free" attitude that you can go do it and then expect God to forgive-by no means. Look at David and Bathsheba; even after committing adultery with her, he still stayed with her in marriage and was called a man after God's own heart nonetheless. My next point can be made into it's own topic if one of our fine mod's think this too off of the topic. I noticed the issue of abuse coming up and I would really like to say something. Abuse, in whatever form, is an awful thing to live with. It seems that when one says "abuse" it's automatically judged to be a "man thing." As far as physical violence I doubt there are too many women who are abusers in that sense, but there are women who can emotionally and verbally abuse just as bad as a man can-I've lived through it. When someone destroys your trust in them and keeps on telling you lie after lie, that's abuse IMO. *Ron steps off of his soapbox*

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. ...Many hear the truth, but are never purified by it, because they will not submit to it or obey it. The Spirit of God is the great agent in the purification of man's soul. The Spirit convinces the soul of its impurities, furnishes those virtues and graces that both adorn and purify, such as faith (Acts 15:9), hope (1 John 3:3), the fear of God (Psalm 34:9), and the love of Jesus Christ. The Spirit excites our endeavours, and makes them successful. The aid of the Spirit does not supersede our own industry; these people purified their own souls, but it was not through the Spirit. The souls of Christians must be purified before they can so much as love one another unfeignedly. There are such lusts and partialities in man's nature that without divine grace we can neither love God nor one another as we ought to do; there is no charity but out of a pure heart. It is the duty of all Christians sincerely and fervently to love one another. Our affection to one another must be sincere and real, and it must be fervent, constant, and extensive....the duty of loving one another with a pure heart fervently from the consideration of their spiritual relation; they are all born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, etc... (Matthew Henry Commentary) The above Scripture and commentary speak of and describe born again people of God. How much more it should pertain to a man and a woman who would commit to marriage; a lifetime together as one. We should search ourself in the Scripture to see how we measure up. Do we really behave like we are born again as the Word describes a new creature. (2Cr. 5:17) Jesus said divorce was permitted because of the "hardness of your heart" (Mark 10:5), even though God did not want divorce from the beginning. Jesus goes on to say,"What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder." (Mark 10:9). Our Bible tells us not to be unequally yoked (2Cr. 6:14), so the choice here is ours. Not all marriages are put together by God. Only those marriages He has joined together, must holdfast to the commandment of Mark 10:9. Only true, born again Christians must holdfast to all God's commandments.

"Irreconsible differences" This is such a subjective term. I would be hard pressed to think of scriptual backing of such a general term. I would have to say most if not all "differences" can be settled, but pride and selfishness gets in the way. A simple answer is no. God doesnt provide relief in the form of divorce just because a couple doesnt get along. Abuse is a much more sensitive topic. I am in no way advocating someone should be forced to live with an abusive spouse. Pack up and LEAVE if the situation calls for that. Find a new place to live or stay with someone else. If you are to be reconcilled then be it with your spouse. If the other spouse files for divorce then remain unmarried and in harmony with God.

shyguy, I appreciate your post! I have to say that these words are a dangerous thing in our society, even among christian marriages. The shame of it is, that all too often people skip over these passages or try to manipulate them to give them a license to sin and do what they want to do in the end anyway. So many convince themselves that God doesn't want them to be unhappy so they take that and run with it. Marriage is a huge committment and alot of work. Without God as the head of the marriage it is nearly impossible to make it work. I wish that christian couples would set a standard here but sadly, divorce rates among christians are the same as that among nonchristians. I am curious to know your thoughts though about divorce in cases of abuse and "irreconcilable differences" that so many refer to. Do you see provision in God's word for such instances...curious as to your thoughts about this.