Things the Bible does not say about the End Times

[Dennis1209]

WOW! It sure would take some time and a well of cyber ink to respond to all those points listed!

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

Now I have told you before, bro', I DO NOT read your long posts, as you go off into your vain imagination.

``In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God. He was in the beginning with God.`(John 1: 1 & 2)

We need to believe what God`s word says and NOT man`s vain thoughts.

Shalom, Marilyn C.

Well, there you go. If you're not willing to read through the logical construction that is built FROM THE SCRIPTURES AS THEY WERE WRITTEN, then you will continue to be at a loss when it comes to understanding those Scriptures.

You CAN'T take the theological rhetoric built to EXPLAIN the Scriptures (and often to EXPLAIN AWAY the Scriptures) and expect to come to the truth about the Scriptures. The theological rhetoric is DESIGNED to circumvent the Scriptures and come to conclusions that the Scriptures were NEVER MEANT to say!

You quote John 1:1-2 but you FAIL to understand them! Yes, the WORD was in the Beginning with God and the WORD was God, but Yeshua`, the SON of God, was that WORD made FLESH! There were no limitations of the One called the Word, but there are LIMITATIONS to the One called Yeshua` the Messiah, the SON of God! He is the MEDIATOR, the GO-BETWEEN God and man! He now is a BODY, limited to a particular location! On earth, He said, "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32.)

It wasn't until I understood Genesis 2:7 and what a "soul" is that this truth came to realization in my life. I was always taught that "we are a soul but we have a body." But, THAT'S NOT TRUE!!! When one comes to the realization that a "soul" (in Hebrew, a "nefesh") IS an "air-breathing creature," then one can begin to understand the Incarnation.

Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

B-reeshiyt 2:7 (JPS transliterated)

7 Vayiytser YHWH Elohiym et haa'aadaam `aafaar min-haa'adaamaah vayipah b'apaayoh nishmat chayiym vayhiy haa'aadaam l-nefesh chayyaah:

7 Vayiytser = 7 And-formed
YHWH = YHWH, the LORD
Elohiym = God
et = (the next word is the direct object)
haa'aadaam = the-red-(man)
`aafaar = of-dust
min-= from
haa'adaamaah = the-red-(ground)
vayipah = and-puffed
b'apaayoh = in-his-nostrils
nishmat = a-puff
chayiym = of-living-things
vayhiy = and-became
haa'aadaam = the-red-(man)
l- = to/into
nefesh = an-air-breathing-creature
chayyaah: = living:

Again, this was the first case of CPR, although technically, it is not "CardioPulmonary REsuscitation."

Strong's Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary gives us these definitions:

5315 nefesh (neh'-fesh). From naafash; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. Animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental) -- any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

5314 naafash (naw-fash'). A primitive root; to breathe; passively, to be breathed upon, i.e. (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a current of air) -- (be) refresh selves (-ed).

There's no mention of YHWH God "creating a soul and placing it in the body." To the contrary, He made the body, breathed a puff of life into the body, and the MAN BECAME a living, AIR-BREATHING CREATURE!

This was true for the Work that the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God) did within Miryam ("Mary"): The Word BECAME the flesh that grew within her and would later be born, begin breathing on His own, and be called "Yeshua`" ("Jesus"). THAT was the Incarnation. What's beautiful about that Incarnation is that it NEVER ENDED (although it was put on pause for 3 days and 3 nights)! Yeshua`, the Messiah of God, DIED AND WAS BURIED! He CEASED being an AIR-BREATHER! For three days and three nights, His disciples had lost all hope.
...

Ah, but THEN came the RESURRECTION!!! And, Yeshua`, the Messiah of God, began to BREATHE again! However, He was no longer DEPENDENT upon that breathing, but was INDEPENDENT of breathing since He is now a WIND ("SPIRIT") of breath! And, just to be clear, that doesn't mean that He's no longer physical! To the contrary, He said to His disciples,

"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." (Luke 24:39.)

Look. It's an error to think that "physical is bad and spiritual is good." That's the Greek nonsense that was thrown into the works back in the 100s and 200s A.D. that Randy Alcorn called "Christoplatonism" in his book Heaven. It came from a fascination of Greek philosophy that was married into the Christian theology of the day. 

God MADE man physical in the beginning and pronounced him (along with the rest of Creation) as "very good!" The New Earth, the New "Heaven" (or rather, the "New Sky"), and the New Jerusalem are all PHYSICAL! THEY are our future Home! Being "flesh and bones" is obviously not a bad thing! It's a very GOOD thing!

As Yochanan ("John") said,

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." (1 John 3:2.)

[Marilyn C]

We need to get back to the OP.

[Retrobyter]

11 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

WOW! It sure would take some time and a well of cyber ink to respond to all those points listed!

Shalom, Dennis1209.

Yeah, I know. But, one should be aware at how all these passages of Scripture dove-tail together to form the whole. It's not enough to say "Jesus Christ died, was buried, and rose again." One should also have a clear picture of how all the prophecies wove together to form the tapestry of Yeshua`s accomplishment upon the cross. Every point was necessary and fit with the other points to show just what we should be learning from the Scriptures and from the Hebrew background of those Scriptures.

[Justin Adams]

The "Word" reference was taken from the Tanakh. Check out Samuel's first meeting with God in a human likeness, and Jeremiah 1. "the Word touched my lips.."

The scriptures about Yeshua are necessarily obtuse because God did not trust His Holy Ones. (Job) and the Deuteronomy 32 worldview clearly explains the disobedient holy ones and there dismal failures in Psalm 82.

The first advent was cryptic and the second will be the same. Only in hindsight will we really be able to 'get the plot'.

Check out the original context of 'a virgin will be with child' and the 'out of Egypt have I called my son'. These are re-quoted by the apostles under inspiration but the original context is lacking. Such is the way God works and James' rephrasing of Amos to include Edom is also pointed and under inspiration likewise changed. (Jerusalem Council)

Edited March 6, 2020 by Justin Adams

[Retrobyter]

18 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

We need to get back to the OP.

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn C.

Agreed; however, I haven't really left it! "Going to Heaven when one dies" IS one of those "Things the Bible DOES NOT SAY about the End Times."

Another one of the "Things the Bible DOES NOT SAY about the End Times" is that there will be a "Rapture," that is, as if those "raptured" would be going to "Heaven." 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 shall occur, but the DESTINATION is debatable. What Yeshua` said in John 14:1-4 is true, and Yeshua` DID go to the New Jerusalem, His Father's Bedouin-Tent-House, but He never said we would join Him there; instead, He said He would be coming BACK to earth to re-unite with His disciples, and through Yochanan (Revelation 21:1-4) He said that His Father's Bedouin-Tent-House would be coming HERE to this earth renovated!

Also, this thread was started almost 5 years ago by our brother Omegaman. I haven't asked him, but I believe that he's satisfied that the discussion has been continuing this long.

[Retrobyter]

17 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

The "Word" reference was taken from the Tanakh. Check out Samuel's first meeting with God in a human likeness, and Jeremiah 1. "the Word touched my lips.."

The scriptures about Yeshua are necessarily obtuse because God did not trust His Holy Ones. (Job) and the Deuteronomy 32 worldview clearly explains the disobedient holy ones and their dismal failures in Psalm 82.

The first advent was cryptic and the second will be the same. Only in hindsight will we really be able to 'get the plot'.

Check out the original context of 'a virgin will be with child' and the 'out of Egypt have I called my son'. These are re-quoted by the apostles under inspiration but the original context is lacking. Such is the way God works and James' rephrasing of Amos to include Edom is also pointed and under inspiration likewise changed. (Jerusalem Council)

Shabbat shalom, Justin Adams.

Yes, "haDaVar YHWH" is from the Tanakh. Sh'mu'eel did meet with YHWH as He stood beside his bed; however, I think you're remembering Yirmeyahuw's words wrongly: He wrote, "The LORD (YHWH) touched my lips" and that YHWH said, "Behold, I have put my words in your mouth." ("Hineeh naatatiy dVaaray bfiykhaa.")

And, yes, the holy children of Israel IN THAT GENERATION were disobedient and failed to reverence YHWH as their only true God; however, that didn't make them less holy. They were still selected by YHWH as His people, and their children were given the privilege of going into the Land instead of them. And, yes, later generations were also disobedient to God's Word and dismally failed. 

Even today, we have a generation of holy children of Israel, particularly of the tribe of Yhudah, that has all but forgotten the God of their ancestors, but that will NEVER make them less holy! They are still HIS people, and He shall deal with them accordingly.

As far as your last points, I think you are not seeing the truth of what can only be found in the original languages (simply because they didn't translate well into English).

You contend that the passages which contain "a virgin will be with child" and "out of Egypt have I called my son" have been quoted and changed or re-phrased under inspiration to be applicable to the First Advent, making that First Advent rather "cryptic."

Therefore, you conclude that the Second Advent will also follow the same pattern.

I believe that the passages were worded just fine in Hebrew and quoted accurately and adequately, showing that they were indeed CORRECTLY applicable to the First Advent. What makes them "cryptic" and appear as "changed or re-phrased" is simply the TRANSLATION of the Hebrew into Greek and then again into English from either the Hebrew or the Greek. All you're really seeing is called "informational thermodynamics," that is, the decay of information as it changes hands from one language to another through human and fallible translators.

[Justin Adams]

Thanks for the correction. I still see that the first advent WAS cryptic because God kept it all close to the vest.

The apostle said, 'had they but known they never would have killed the King of Glory'. He poked them right in the eye at Mt. Hermon (the gates of hell) and soon after He was dead. As planned.

The second advent will not happen as we popularly think. It will take those alive at the time by surprise, yet they will see it for what it is on a personal level.

Preaching an easy escape is not the right thing to do since many thus informed, will loose heart when it does not happen the way the modern scribes have written.

Rethink it all is my suggestion and NONE, absolutely NONE of the current eschaton theorists have it all correct. Non of their 'systems' work...

[Omegaman 3.0]

24 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Thanks for the correction. I still see that the first advent WAS cryptic because God kept it all close to the vest.

The apostle said, 'had they but known they never would have killed the King of Glory'. He poked them right in the eye at Mt. Hermon (the gates of hell) and soon after He was dead. As planned.

The second advent will not happen as we popularly think. It will take those alive at the time by surprise, yet they will see it for what it is on a personal level.

Preaching an easy escape is not the right thing to do since many thus informed, will loose heart when it does not happen the way the modern scribes have written.

Rethink it all is my suggestion and NONE, absolutely NONE of the current eschaton theorists have it all correct. Non of their 'systems' work...

I think you are right, is seemed a bit hidden (the first advent), but Jesus did come at the time appointed, and there was a sense of expectancy when He did, you see it in the gospels themselves. The actual date of His crucifixion was even spelled out in the O.T. There were also so things that were understood, things that were identifiers. He was to be a Gallilean, yet to born in Bethlehem. His crucifixion was pointed out as the way He would die, though that was a bit masked. Not many sons are called God among us, nor born of a virgin, those sorts of things. Over 300 prophecies fulfilled in the live of one man, and only one man. Still people cannot see it, even to this day.

I think there are those, who are supposed to see things, and those who never will. I think this is likely true for His second advent. you said:

Quote

The second advent will not happen as we popularly think. It will take those alive at the time by surprise, yet they will see it for what it is on a personal level.

I personally do not see that in scripture, what I see is that there are two groups of people those who are surprised, and those who are expecting. You also said:

Quote

Rethink it all is my suggestion and NONE, absolutely NONE of the current eschaton theorists have it all correct. Non of their 'systems' work...

I don't think I agree with the idea that none of the systems work. I think that could only be true, if one claims to have read and understood all relevant passages, so that you know what is the truth, and can then say that everyone else is wrong. I would say of all the theories out there, no more than one is correct, and perhaps none.

I agree with you, rethinking is always a good idea, but I also think that God gave us a LOT of information, I suggest that possibly that it is provided for those he wants to know, to know. Sort of like Jesus parables where is points out that it is given for some to know (Matt 13:10 and on). The Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 17 passages, coupled with others, are all about knowing, and not being deceived. Let's not be taken in by the ear tickling doctrines predicted, nor fail to be ready (doing what we should) and watchful for the signs given us.  

 

[Justin Adams]

4 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Let's not be taken in by the ear tickling doctrines predicted, nor fail to be ready (doing what we should) and watchful for the signs given us.  

 

Agreed. We just do not know, but we will be pleasantly surprised (not taken completely off balance).

It is very cryptic, and kinda sorts the sheep out really. Putting faith in man's ideas and his million best-seller systems is not going to work. Getting peoples' hopes up for an easy out is already a real bug-bear of mine since nobody knows and Yeshua said we are not meant to know either.

'Things holy ones long to look into..'

Anyone that says they got it all figured out can be safely ignored.