Is this timeline possible?

[Last Daze]

20 hours ago, Spock said:

Just curious, why can't there be two sightings?  One for the rapture (rev 6) and one for the 2nd coming to kick butt at Armageddon? (Rev 19)

you are also not saying Rev 6=Rev 19, are you? 

I used to be of the sixth seal rapture persuasion until I read the following verse very carefully and compared it to the sixth seal. 

• And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, [insert six plagues] and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.  Matthew 25:30

The green part (and preceding verse) speaks of the sixth seal.  People see the sign of the Son of Man.  No where in the sixth seal does it say they see the Son of Man.  At the sixth seal, people's spiritual eyes are opened (the sky is rolled back like a scroll) and they see He who sits on the throne and the Lamb.

The orange part is a couple of years or more later when Christ returns.  This is when they actually see the Son of Man, not His sign..

Why aren't all of the plagues mentioned?  Because they aren't signs that the believers are to recognize.  Jesus is answering this question:

• As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”  Matthew 24:3

For what it's worth.

[WilliamL]

5 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

I am saying that. Revelation has multiple visions about the second coming. How many times do you guys expect there to be this massive earthquake and Jesus is seen by the leaders of earth and sets up his kingdom?  The bible is written in obvious wording, to see multiple similar overlaps of multiple events is just ridiculous to me.  To such an extent of ridiculousness that it becomes virtually impossible to have a discussion around this topic.

As I show on my website, all the significant events of the Exodus were types and shadows of the Day of the Lord. (Which, I hope we all can agree, is a substantial period of time, not a single day or event.) Did you know that 3 separate earthquakes also took place during the Exodus era? Here are the Exodus-era types, and their Day of the LORD fulfillments:

The Exodus, at Mount Sinai: Thick darkness, earthquake, God's trumpet/shofar sounding. The LORD descended upon Mount Sinai in clouds of smoke; most people cowered away from his Presence. But those who were ready went up into his Presence. Ex. 19:16f.; 20:18
6th Seal: Thick darkness, earthquake, God's trumpet/shofar sounding. Jesus descends in the clouds; most people are greatly afraid and hide themselves. But those who are ready go up into his Presence. Rev. 6:12-17; 1 Thes. 4:16; Matt. 24:29-30

During the Exodus sojourn in the wilderness: Moses and Aaron, after having prophesied and performed similar miracles as the Two Witnesses, were confronted and accused by Korah and others. The LORD then validated their ministry, killing thousands of their adversaries by earthquake, fire and plague. Num. 16; Ex. 7-10
6th Trumpet, Priestly Section: The Two Witnesses prophesy, burn their enemies with fire, turn waters to blood, and smite the earth with plagues. They are accused and attacked by the Beast and others. God publicly validates their ministry by raising them from the dead; an earthquake then kills thousands. Rev. 11:3-13

After the Exodus, in Canaan: Joshua—Yeshua—and the Israelites defeated the many armies gathered together against them on 'the day the sun stood still.' "[T]he earth trembled and shook" amidst a great storm (Jasher 89:15), and great hailstones fell from heaven. The Canaanite armies were routed and slaughtered, and their kings were captured alive and "cast into" a cave. Josh. 10
7th Bowl: "[T]hunderings and lightnings...a mighty and great earthquake...great hail from heaven." Jesus—Yeshua—and the armies of heaven descend to destroy the armies gathered together against them. The Beast and the False Prophet are captured alive, and "cast into" the lake of fire.  Rev. 16:17-21; 19:11-21

The types of events during the Exodus that foreshadow the events of the End Times were sequential in time. There are no scriptures that say they will not likewise be sequential in the End Times.

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, Spock said:

Brother Argosy,

to my point of view, it seems "illogical" to equate Rev 6=Rev 19, but like I previously said, I can be wrong. 

As for how many earthquakes can you have?  As many as it takes!

spock

 

from my point of view, it is "illogical" to equate Rev 6=Rev 

Hi Spock,

Do your books have a page of contents? Do you find that strange to have an overview of the contents of the book before you`ve read the details of the book? Or do you find it helpful to see what the writer is going to unfold in his writings?

Just thought that might help you understand where Argosy & I are coming from.

Marilyn.

[Spock]

8 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I used to be of the sixth seal rapture persuasion until I read the following verse very carefully and compared it to the sixth seal. 

• And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, [insert six plagues] and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.  Matthew 25:30

The green part (and preceding verse) speaks of the sixth seal.  People see the sign of the Son of Man.  No where in the sixth seal does it say they see the Son of Man.  At the sixth seal, people's spiritual eyes are opened (the sky is rolled back like a scroll) and they see He who sits on the throne and the Lamb.

The orange part is a couple of years or more later when Christ returns.  This is when they actually see the Son of Man, not His sign..

Why aren't all of the plagues mentioned?  Because they aren't signs that the believers are to recognize.  Jesus is answering this question:

• As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”  Matthew 24:3

For what it's worth.

Daze,

intersting you allowed for a gap in the middle of the sentence of Matt 24:30. I guess you could call this Gap Theory Part Two.  (Genesis 1:1-2 being the first.)  

 

[Marilyn C]

On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 3:13 AM, Spock said:

Thanks William.  Phew!  I'm glad, I thought I was alone on this one and quite frankly, I'm perplexed how anyone can see the 6th seal = 7th trumpet.  But, hey, God didn't intend to make this easy. Let's see what are two esteemed and persistent friends have to say to justify this timeline.

thanks William for chiming in.

the ball is in your court Marilyn and Argosy. Why do you believe 6th seal = 7th trumpet? 

Hi Spock,

I thought these scriptures would help you regarding the timing of the 6^th seal.

`the kings of the earth, the great men......hid themselves in the caves & in the rocks of the mountains,.....the great day of His wrath has come...` (Rev. 6: 15 – 17)

`For the day of the Lord of hosts shall come......(men) shall go into the holes of the rocks, & into the caves of the earth, from the terror of the Lord....when He arises to shake the earth mightily.

In that day a man will cast away his idols of silver & his idols of gold, ....to go into the clefts of the rocks, & into the crags of the rugged rocks, from the terror of the Lord...when He arises to shake the earth mightily.` (Isa. 2: 12 – 21)

So we can see that Isaiah & John by the Holy Spirit are speaking of the same event – men hiding in the caves & rocks of the earth & Isaiah gives more detail - casting away their idols.

 

I believe that this is just before the Lord returns at the end of the tribulation. The trumpet judgments are the details of the overview of the `scroll` God`s will. How can we tell? Just this detail may help you.

`By these plagues a 1/3<sup>rd</sup> of mankind was killed.....but the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, & idols of gold, silver, brass, stone & wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;......` (Rev. 9: 18 – 21)

So we see that at the 6^th trumpet the great army is released killing a 1/3^rd of mankind BUT those not killed DID NOT repent of their idols. Yet previously we read that the men all hid & repented of their idols (in the overview, ch. 6: 15 – 17).

Thus the 6^th trumpet (men not repenting of idols) is before the event of the 6^th seal, (men repenting of idols). 

 

    7 Seals.

   (1234)                       5                          6   7 (Christ)

    Trumpets 1 2 3 4   5                      6      7                   

   _I____________I_____________I____

             3 ½ years                                         3 ½ years

 

Marilyn.                                                                                            

Edited February 16, 2016 by Marilyn C

[WilliamL]

8 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

...In that day a man will cast away his idols of silver & his idols of gold, ....to go into the clefts of the rocks, & into the crags of the rugged rocks, from the terror of the Lord...when He arises to shake the earth mightily.` (Isa. 2: 12 – 21)

So we can see that Isaiah & John by the Holy Spirit are speaking of the same event – men hiding in the caves & rocks of the earth & Isaiah gives more detail - casting away their idols.

 

I believe that this is just before the Lord returns at the end of the tribulation. The trumpet judgments are the details of the overview of the `scroll` God`s will. How can we tell? Just this detail may help you.

`By these plagues a 1/3<sup>rd</sup> of mankind was killed.....but the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, & idols of gold, silver, brass, stone & wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;......` (Rev. 9: 18 – 21)

So we see that at the 6^th trumpet the great army is released killing a 1/3^rd of mankind BUT those not killed DID NOT repent of their idols. Yet previously we read that the men all hid & repented of their idols (in the overview, ch. 6: 15 – 17).

No, the passages in Rev. 6 and Isaiah say nothing about them repenting of their idols. They will merely just cast them aside as useless at that time; but they will not turn to God in repentance, far from it. Remember how quickly the Israelites made and worshiped a golden calf -- this just after they had seen and recoiled from the visible Presence -- even while Moses was still talking to YHWH on Sinai?

Most idols of gold and silver these days are gold and silver coins, by the way, and similar types of mammon. After the Lord appears to and is seen by every eye, and takes up his elect into the clouds, and then disappears from sight from the masses, there is no reason to believe that those masses will not come back out of their holes and pick up their idols once more. Because Satan will already be at work telling them this: the evil Christians were taken out of the world because they were a hindrance to the coming golden age of the New World Order.

The Beast Kingdom will then be established during the period of the Trumpets, just as the natural order of events in Revelation portrays. The Abyss will be opened at the 5th Trumpet, and the Beast will arise out of that Abyss, just as Rev. 17:8 says. And an image will be made to that Beast, and people will worship it. Deja vu all over again.

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, WilliamL said:

No, the passages in Rev. 6 and Isaiah say nothing about them repenting of their idols. They will merely just cast them aside as useless at that time; but they will not turn to God in repentance, far from it. Remember how quickly the Israelites made and worshiped a golden calf -- this just after they had seen and recoiled from the visible Presence -- even while Moses was still talking to YHWH on Sinai?

Most idols of gold and silver these days are gold and silver coins, by the way, and similar types of mammon. After the Lord appears to and is seen by every eye, and takes up his elect into the clouds, and then disappears from sight from the masses, there is no reason to believe that those masses will not come back out of their holes and pick up their idols once more. Because Satan will already be at work telling them this: the evil Christians were taken out of the world because they were a hindrance to the coming golden age of the New World Order.

The Beast Kingdom will then be established during the period of the Trumpets, just as the natural order of events in Revelation portrays. The Abyss will be opened at the 5th Trumpet, and the Beast will arise out of that Abyss, just as Rev. 17:8 says. And an image will be made to that Beast, and people will worship it. Deja vu all over again.

Hi WilliamL,

Yes, `casting away,` is more correct than `repenting.` I did wonder on that. Good point.

Now for your view. And keeping in mind having the `correct wording,` what scriptures can you give to show us what you are saying.

1. `The Lord disappearing from the masses.`....................................................................................... (..................)

2. `The masses coming out of their holes & picking up their idols once more.`.....................................................................................(.................)

3. `Satan at work telling them this -  the evil Christians were taken out of the world because they were a hindrance to the coming golden age of the New World order.`....................................(........)

 

As you have shown me it is important to use the words of scripture, I am looking forward to those scriptures that clearly show what you have said.

Marilyn. 

Edited February 16, 2016 by Marilyn C

[WilliamL]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi WilliamL,

Yes, `casting away,` is more correct than `repenting.` I did wonder on that. Good point.

Now for your view. And keeping in mind having the `correct wording,` what scriptures can you give to show us what you are saying.

1. `The Lord disappearing from the masses.`......Matt. 25:10 ...the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.    24:37 “But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark...

2. `The masses coming out of their holes & picking up their idols once more.`.....Pure common sense: they cannot nor will stay in their holes forever. And verses after Rev. 6 clearly show this.

3. `Satan at work telling them this -  the evil Christians were taken out of the world because they were a hindrance to the coming golden age of the New World order.`.......2 Thes. 2:11-12 God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Again, this is also pure common sense: how else will people be deceived into believing that what Christians had told them about the Rapture was not true, after Christians are indeed taken out of the world? There will have to be a lie, a great delusion, to explain it all away. Just like the Israelites quickly (less than 40 days) came to be deluded into making their golden calf --

Ex. 32:1 ...the people gathered together to Aaron, and said to him, “Come, make us gods that shall go before us; for as for this Moses...we do not know what has become of him.” .... 4 Then they said, "This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!"

 

[Marilyn C]

42 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

 

Hi WilliamL,

Yes, `casting away,` is more correct than `repenting.` I did wonder on that. Good point.

Now for your view. And keeping in mind having the `correct wording,` what scriptures can you give to show us what you are saying.

1. `The Lord disappearing from the masses.`......Matt. 25:10 ...the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.    24:37 “But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark...

2. `The masses coming out of their holes & picking up their idols once more.`.....Pure common sense: they cannot nor will stay in their holes forever. And verses after Rev. 6 clearly show this.

3. `Satan at work telling them this -  the evil Christians were taken out of the world because they were a hindrance to the coming golden age of the New World order.`.......2 Thes. 2:11-12 God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Again, this is also pure common sense: how else will people be deceived into believing that what Christians had told them about the Rapture was not true, after Christians are indeed taken out of the world? There will have to be a lie, a great delusion, to explain it all away. Just like the Israelites quickly (less than 40 days) came to be deluded into making their golden calf --

Ex. 32:1 ...the people gathered together to Aaron, and said to him, “Come, make us gods that shall go before us; for as for this Moses...we do not know what has become of him.” .... 4 Then they said, "This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!"

 

Hi WilliamL,

According to your criteria of exact wording, Your answers are not correct. Also do you notice that you rely on symbols & parables & not the actual -

eg. `The Lord disappearing from the masses.` where is the actual words in scripture for that.

`The masses coming out of their holes & picking up idols...` Common sense you say. But it actually would then change the timing & God does not leave that up to us for conjecture.

`Satan at work telling them....` Scripture does not say what the lie is or what Satan will say. Where are the exact words in scripture as you required of me, bro.

You are assuming, conjecturing & envisioning your view but it is not actually written in scripture.

Marilyn.

[WilliamL]

50 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

According to your criteria of exact wording, Your answers are not correct. Also do you notice that you rely on symbols & parables & not the actual -

eg. `The Lord disappearing from the masses.` where is the actual words in scripture for that.

... Where are the exact words in scripture as you required of me, bro.

Pardon me, but where did I ever use the phrase "exact wording?" Please quote the passage for us out of my post where I "required" the "exact words in scripture" of you.