Some encouraging Scriptures about the rapture

[Spock]

58 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

Hope you don`t mind me butting in here. We know that the Lord`s hand of mercy is always outstretched and people have an opportunity to turn to Him while still alive. At the moment many who call themselves Christians are being deceived and will go into the tribulation without even realising. Man`s `church` meetings will still be going on with their ministers still in the pulpit, as they are now getting more and more connected to the world system.

Also many will think the Russian war is Armageddon and thus when the man of peace comes in, who will they think he is, especially when he seemingly arises from the dead. Great deception.

So the `great multitude,` we see come out of the Great tribulation, the last part, when the A/C starts to reveal his true colours - control. Also at that time we see that food is expense, (crops burnt & water polluted etc by first judgments), and I should say that having to take the mark of the beast will wake many up to his real identity. Then finally we know that when people are dying they will cry out to God for help. This great multitude we see die of `heat, hunger and thirst,` (Rev. 7: 16) which is a result of the bowl judgments.

regards, Marilyn.

Thanks for getting involved,

i hear what you are saying, but scripture is telling me the bowls, or at least some of them, are not causing people to repent and cry out to God for mercy: 

rev 16 (notice the people’s reaction to 4/5 bowl judgments) 

8Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was given power to scorch the people with fire. 9And the people were scorched by intense heat, and they cursed the name of God, who had authority over these plagues; yet they did not repent and give Him glory.

10And the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness, and men began to gnaw their tongues in anguish 11and curse the God of heaven for their pains and sores; yet they did not repent of their deeds.

i still would like more hard evidence to believe a multitude of people are getting killed and saved because of their new founded faith. Do you have any? 

Thanks

spock

[Revelation Man]

12 hours ago, Spock said:

What surprises me about Rev 7:9-17 is that group has a lot of people, right? 

I did not think many people would come to Christ after the rapture with the Beast and False Prophet doing their signs and wonder thingy and God sending mankind a delusion to those who did not believe when they had a chance. 

So how did the “Trib Saints” get so large? Any thoughts? 

Your instincts are 100 percent correct here, but the "TRADITIONS OF MEN" are powerful, they bind us to certain thought patterns. So let's go through the evidence, which the Lord has led me to do in every situation nowadays, let's quit following the Men's Traditions. He told the Pharisees that was their problem also !! THE EVIDENCE :

1.) It's a large group of people from ALL NATIONS. 2.) Jesus tells the Martyrs under the altar in the 5th Seal they have to wait on their brothers to be killed in like manner as they were. 3.) Those who refused the Mark of the Beast are raised and Judged in Rev. 20:4 and serve with Christ ON EARTH for 1000 years.

So it seems all odds point against these being Saints from the 70th Week Tribulation. So what gives ? Why does everyone think these Saints come from the 70th week tribulation ? Because we try to PIGEONHOLE God's vocabulary. Just because Jesus said the 70th Week troubles would be the GREATEST EVER TROUBLES via how troublesome they are, via the number of people killed etc. etc., people try to then say God can't also refer to the Greatest ever Time Period of Troubles, which is the Church Age Tribulation that lasted some 2000 odd years, compared with the 70th week tribulation that will last 7 years. So those mentioned in Rev. 7:9-17 indeed came out of the Great {2000 year Church Age} Tribulation Period as in 2000>7. It's the only thing that actually FITS/Makes sense. Thus they came out of ALL Nations, Peoples etc. etc. And they are MANY, MANY, MANY, in number. They are seen in Heaven, where the Church was seen in Rev. 4 and 5 before the Seals were opened. 

No one is going to Heaven after the Rapture until after the 70th week is over, and then they don't even go to Heaven at that time, Rev. 20:4 says they live on earth with Jesus for 1000 years. Thus the Bride goes back to Heaven, no doubt to finish off New Jerusalem, thus as it descends its called the Bride of Christ, no doubt we are in it as it descends. 

Those people seen in Rev. 7 are the Church in Heaven. Not the Tribulation Saints. They came out of the Church Age Tribulation. GREAT can have more than one meaning. Greatest TROUBLES............AND Greatest Period of Time. We can't Pigeonhole God's vocabulary. The one MAKES PERFECT SENSE, the other one makes NO SENSE. Jesus told us we would have CONTINUAL TRIBULATION !!

Thus THEY came out of the 2000 some odd year Church Age Tribulation.

I hope everyone agrees, the Church had Tribulation, CONTINUALLY !! 

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, Spock said:

Thanks for getting involved,

i hear what you are saying, but scripture is telling me the bowls, or at least some of them, are not causing people to repent and cry out to God for mercy: 

rev 16 (notice the people’s reaction to 4/5 bowl judgments) 

8Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was given power to scorch the people with fire. 9And the people were scorched by intense heat, and they cursed the name of God, who had authority over these plagues; yet they did not repent and give Him glory.

10And the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness, and men began to gnaw their tongues in anguish 11and curse the God of heaven for their pains and sores; yet they did not repent of their deeds.

i still would like more hard evidence to believe a multitude of people are getting killed and saved because of their new founded faith. Do you have any? 

Thanks

spock

Hi Spock,

Good point there bro. I agree. So these people were not in the kingdom of darkness for they cried out to God in their pain. The first 4 judgments  would have affected the food supply, (grains) the water for crops & drinking and sunlight for growing of food. Thus eventually there would be hunger, thirst and heat from the `hail and fire.` (Rev. 8: 7).

I tend to see that the great multitude at God`s throne, (Rev. 7: 9) are the ones on the `sea of glass,` who have overcome the beast, his image, his number & mark. (Rev. 15:2) And we know that the `sea of glass,` (God`s holiness) is before His throne. (Rev. 4: 6).

Just some thoughts, Marilyn.

[Spock]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

Good point there bro. I agree. So these people were not in the kingdom of darkness for they cried out to God in their pain. The first 4 judgments  would have affected the food supply, (grains) the water for crops & drinking and sunlight for growing of food. Thus eventually there would be hunger, thirst and heat from the `hail and fire.` (Rev. 8: 7).

I tend to see that the great multitude at God`s throne, (Rev. 7: 9) are the ones on the `sea of glass,` who have overcome the beast, his image, his number & mark. (Rev. 15:2) And we know that the `sea of glass,` (God`s holiness) is before His throne. (Rev. 4: 6).

Just some thoughts, Marilyn.

Thanks M.,

My wife also believes there will be many in the GT who won’t take the mark and probably die because NOW they will believe the angels going around the world preaching the gospel of the kingdom. I guess this goes along with what you are saying too. 

I just have had a hard time thinking there would be a multitude this immense coming out of the GT, so for a long time I viewed the great multitude in Rev 7:9-17 as being the RAPTURED church. I know for sure that will be a great multitude from every nation. 

[Spock]

On 7/10/2019 at 12:29 PM, Montana Marv said:

Good enough answer.  Rev 3:10 proves my point.  I will keep you from that hour of testing.... to test those who dwell on the earth.  It just depends when one thinks this hour of testing will begin.  So if one resides on the earth at this time of testing, they (all) will be tested.  The only way not to be tested in that time of testing, is not to be there.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Hey Marv or anyone, 

what do you say about the position that God’s wrath does not begin until the 6th seal?  Do you believe God’s wrath is unleashed on seals 1-4 despite what is said in rev 6:17?

if the seals begin in the 70th week, why do you think the entire 7 years is God’s wrath if wrath doesn’t begin until seal 6? 

Thanks

spock

 

[Spock]

On 7/12/2019 at 12:43 AM, Montana Marv said:

The great distress of Matt 24 is after the A/D is revealed (nothing about God's Wrath here).  This is the onslaught of Satan against the Elect of Israel (Rev 12:13-17).  Gods Wrath does not occur until after the 4th Trumpet; Woe, Woe, Woe to the inhabitants of the earth . (Rev 8:13)

In Christ

Montana Marv

Hey Msrv, how do you explain rev 6:17?

15Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide usc from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17For the great day of Theird wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

 

Spock: how can you say the wrath doesnt begin until after the 4th trumpet based on this comment by Jesus after the 6th seal? 

[Spock]

On 7/14/2019 at 8:39 AM, OldCoot said:

Let's see.... was not the wrath of Yahweh revealed on the world during the Great Flood?  Was not the wrath of Yahweh revealed against Sodom and Gomorrah?   Yet the first actual mention of the word "wrath" was not till the end of Genesis.

Also, was it not at the direction of the Lord the conquering and subjugation of Israel by the Assyrians?  Yet it was not the Lord who actually did the work. The Lord uses even secular and evil people to accomplish what He has stated will be. Nebuchadnezer was certainly not one of the elect, but he sure accomplished what the Lord said would happen to Judea.  And many in Canaan who were faithful to the Lord suffered and died under the hand of the conquerers which were allowed to do what they did by the Lord.

The events of the seals will not happen if Yeshua does not open them.  Therefore, it is under His authority that the events are allowed to be revealed and occur. In a court of Law, that would mean He is the one who actually was responsible for the events even though He allows others to carry out the details.   The saints of that time are not the only ones who will suffer and die.  Many that are not saints will also suffer and die.   It is indeed the wrath of the Lamb that is going on from Seal One.  Those that dwell on the earth finally come to that realization by Seal Six when they say the wrath "has come" (or become known or revealed to them).

And Paul is quite clear in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the "Day of the Lord" will not occur until the departure occurs which happens before the man of sin / antichrist is revealed who arguably is the character referenced in Seal One of Revelation.   He was calming the Thessalonians down because they had been told or a forged letter had been given them that stated they were in the "Day of the Lord".  And Paul had to remind them of what he told them before (see 1 Thessalonians).  Why would they be upset about being in the Day of the Lord unless they were taught by Paul they would be removed from it?  If they had been taught they would go thru that time, why did Paul need to set them straight? 

 

Hey coot,

your interpretation of the 6th seal, rev 6:12-17 is controversial even among the pre Trib camp. 

Some see the rapture here....some see this at the second coming.....some see this in the 70th week, some don’t. 

Will the rapture be seen by all? Does the Bible say this in 1 Thess 4?  

Very open to interpretation indeed.....

[OldCoot]

The removal or catching away may not be seen by all, or even any, but several are going to notice that there has been the disappearance of several folks.   I believe the young children will be gone as well.  Nothing definitive to support that in scripture is but the fact that they are not spiritually accountable and what the purpose of the GT is all about.

[Diaste]

On 7/9/2019 at 12:44 PM, Abdicate said:

God PULLED Noah and Lot OUT. 

Yes. Immediately prior to the destruction that came from God. At the end of the age that's after the A of D, not before.

[Spock]

10 minutes ago, OldCoot said:

The removal or catching away may not be seen by all, or even any, but several are going to notice that there has been the disappearance of several folks.   I believe the young children will be gone as well.  Nothing definitive to support that in scripture is but the fact that they are not spiritually accountable and what the purpose of the GT is all about.

So why do all the people say what they do at the sixth seal?  From the PRESENCE OF HIM.....

and hide usc from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 1

i see this at the 2nd coming....some say rapture.....