Esau hated by God (before birth)?

[thomas t]

Hi ytLiJC,

8 hours ago, ytLiJC said:

overall salvation

The Bible knows salvation. Either you are saved or not. There is no nuances concerning salvation, when you are saved. Saved is saved.

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.

32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.

34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."  Mt 25:31-34, ESV

 

8 hours ago, ytLiJC said:

he was a world spirits hunter (Genesis 25:27)

"When the boys grew up, Esau was a skillful hunter, a man of the field, while Jacob was a quiet man, dwelling in tents." (Gen 25:27)

I think, this passage doesn't mention "world spirits", you are constructing this.

 

8 hours ago, ytLiJC said:

the Heavenly Father cannot hate any person/soul at any time - He hates the unsouled sinful person in every (be)souled sinner

Sounds as if you're doing complicated semantics, here.

What it means to hate somebody is defined by the Hebrew word for it, I think. "I have hated Esau" in Romans 9:13 is citing Hebrew Malachi 1:1-3.

Regards,

Thomas

 

[ytLiJC]

6 hours ago, thomas t said:

Hi ytLiJC,

The Bible knows salvation. Either you are saved or not. There is no nuances concerning salvation, when you are saved. Saved is saved.

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.

32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.

34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."  Mt 25:31-34, ESV

 

"When the boys grew up, Esau was a skillful hunter, a man of the field, while Jacob was a quiet man, dwelling in tents." (Gen 25:27)

I think, this passage doesn't mention "world spirits", you are constructing this.

 

Sounds as if you're doing complicated semantics, here.

What it means to hate somebody is defined by the Hebrew word for it, I think. "I have hated Esau" in Romans 9:13 is citing Hebrew Malachi 1:1-3.

Regards,

Thomas

 

 

i am not (and cannot afford to be) hasty accusing the true God of sin - is it ever possible that He turn out to be sinful?!

why has He never allowed an unrighteous soul/person to be His Son, His Prophet or His (Arch)angel?!

you say "complicated semantics", but you understand what i said - He hates the unsouled sinful person in every (be)souled sinner - this sentence is clear/explanatory enough

you refer to names, but what do names mean?!

Blessings

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On 2/20/2018 at 7:18 AM, thomas t said:

Dear community,

this is a spin-off from another thread.

Hi N2thelight,

I think you raised an interesting question asking why God hated Esau. The passage concerned is Romans 9:11-13.

"(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

 

Although Esau hasn't been born yet, he was instantly hated by God, as is announced by that passage (my interpretation).

 

And now you ask: " If God knows [...] why are we going through this, that would be an act of a cruel God, yet I know for a fact that He is just..... "

 

My answer to this would be: Esau didn't have a bad life, in my opinion, as he had as many as three wives - Gen 28:9.

In my view, even if it's true that God hated Esau determining that he will serve his younger brother... he was given a good life, that's how I read the story.

 

And then you ask (same posting): " Why didn't He kill satan when he rebelled? "

 

God doesn't like to kill, I think. This, in my opinion, is apparent from the fact that in the Garden of Eden there wasn't death - see Romans 5:12:

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: "

 

Best regards,

Thomas

 

 

 

 

God didnt HATE Esau in the way it might normally be understood. Hate here is usually meant to be seen as a lesser degree of love. 

[Leonardo Von]

On 2/20/2018 at 8:18 AM, thomas t said:

" Why didn't He kill satan when he rebelled? "

Because he is necessary so that Jesus can show all the greatness of this grace:

• Rom 9:22,23  -> "What if God, willing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction; and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy which He had before prepared to glory;".

[Reinitin]

On 2/20/2018 at 5:18 AM, thomas t said:

Dear community,

this is a spin-off from another thread.

Hi N2thelight,

I think you raised an interesting question asking why God hated Esau. The passage concerned is Romans 9:11-13.

"(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

 

Although Esau hasn't been born yet, he was instantly hated by God, as is announced by that passage (my interpretation).

 

And now you ask: " If God knows [...] why are we going through this, that would be an act of a cruel God, yet I know for a fact that He is just..... "

 

My answer to this would be: Esau didn't have a bad life, in my opinion, as he had as many as three wives - Gen 28:9.

In my view, even if it's true that God hated Esau determining that he will serve his younger brother... he was given a good life, that's how I read the story.

 

And then you ask (same posting): " Why didn't He kill satan when he rebelled? "

 

God doesn't like to kill, I think. This, in my opinion, is apparent from the fact that in the Garden of Eden there wasn't death - see Romans 5:12:

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: "

 

Best regards,

Thomas

 

 

 

 

I see this in the light of Cain and Able. God knew what was in Cains heart before he acted on it.. since Adam and Eves first 2 children There has been a conflict between pleasing God and being pleased with yourself. I think Paul's using Malachi and making contrast with the obvious benefits in Christ to make a point not a verse doctrin. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Reinitin

[Leonardo Von]

Quote

Esau hated by God (before birth)?

Each one is created by the Eternal for one purport.

[R. Hartono]

On 2/20/2018 at 6:18 PM, thomas t said:

Dear community,

this is a spin-off from another thread.

Hi N2thelight,

I think you raised an interesting question asking why God hated Esau. The passage concerned is Romans 9:11-13.

"(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

 

Although Esau hasn't been born yet, he was instantly hated by God, as is announced by that passage (my interpretation).

 

And now you ask: " If God knows [...] why are we going through this, that would be an act of a cruel God, yet I know for a fact that He is just..... "

 

My answer to this would be: Esau didn't have a bad life, in my opinion, as he had as many as three wives - Gen 28:9.

In my view, even if it's true that God hated Esau determining that he will serve his younger brother... he was given a good life, that's how I read the story.

 

And then you ask (same posting): " Why didn't He kill satan when he rebelled? "

 

God doesn't like to kill, I think. This, in my opinion, is apparent from the fact that in the Garden of Eden there wasn't death - see Romans 5:12:

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: "

 

Best regards,

Thomas

 

 

 

 

All devil n sinners are hated by God too because of they choosed to be evil.

[Willa]

On 2/20/2018 at 8:01 PM, n2thelight said:

as I'm trying to show that we were with God from the beginning

Jesus was with God the Father from the beginning.  God foreknew us, being omniscient  and outside of time as we know it.  We did not exist before we were "knit together in our mothers' wombs.  

[Guest]

On 11/23/2021 at 1:42 PM, Reinitin said:

I see this in the light of Cain and Able. God knew what was in Cains heart before he acted on it.. since Adam and Eves first 2 children There has been a conflict between pleasing God and being pleased with yourself. I think Paul's using Malachi and making contrast with the obvious benefits in Christ to make a point not a verse doctrin. 

I think the answer is simple for those of us that see God not limited by Time.  God sees the beginning and the end and all points in between.  So God saw Esau's and Jacob's life in total before they were born.  He saw the choices they would make, and based on those choices He loved Jacob but hated Esau.  This has to be based on God's foreknowledge of Jacob and his offspring and Esau and his offspring.  What in Esau's life or offsprings life would move God to hatred?  That's a deeper subject that I'm not prepared to get into right now.

[other one]

45 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I think the answer is simple for those of us that see God not limited by Time.

If one can grasp the math, a look into "M" String Physics gives a good theoretical reasoning as to how this is.