Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[kwikphilly]

ROLLIN THUNDER,Thunderous one.....I'm so happy to see you that I couldn't contain myself!!!!   What am I doing here,I can't defend what I do not agree with?!!!!

LOL,just wanted to say "hi"   missed you bunches,  glad you're back               Love-your Sis,Kwik

[rollinTHUNDER]

10 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

ROLLIN THUNDER,Thunderous one.....I'm so happy to see you that I couldn't contain myself!!!!   What am I doing here,I can't defend what I do not agree with?!!!!

LOL,just wanted to say "hi"   missed you bunches,  glad you're back               Love-your Sis,Kwik

I can't believe you're forcing me to go back into this thread, after I thought I just left it in the dust for good.

Missed U2, your kwikness.

[kwikphilly]

   I'm pretty good at that ,aren't I Thunderous-hee hee

[seeking the lost]

Left behind, isn't that a good thing?

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares

²⁴ Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; ²⁵ but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. ²⁶ But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. ²⁷ So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ ²⁸ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ ²⁹ But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. ³⁰ Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

If the tares are the first ones taken out who is left behind?

[missmuffet]

25 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

Left behind, isn't that a good thing?

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares

²⁴ Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; ²⁵ but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. ²⁶ But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. ²⁷ So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ ²⁸ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ ²⁹ But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. ³⁰ Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

If the tares are the first ones taken out who is left behind?

The unbelievers are left behind. But there will be a huge harvest of those who come to Christ during the tribulation.

[Marilyn C]

On ‎13‎/‎05‎/‎2003 at 10:37 PM, George said:

Hello brothers and sisters,

Since the forums got a little jumbled, I decided to go ahead and start a few new threads. This thread is the defense of the pre-trib rapture theological position.

Why do you believe in a pre trib rapture?

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

Hi all,

I believe in the pre-trib rapture, the catching away of the Body of Christ, escorting the Lord Jesus Christ to His own throne. This marks the beginning of the `times of restoration of all things,` (Acts3: 21)

`(God) may send Jesus Christ....whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, of which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.` (Acts 3: 20 & 21)

Marilyn.

[Sister]

Quote

Dear Sister, I ask why you are comparing the 144,000 to the Church at Ephesus and its judgment? What is moving a church out of its place as we read of in Rev 1:20 as the candlesticks are referring to? . . . the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. 

Hi Larry

You compared the 5 virgins that had fuel in their lamp to the 144,000.  I was showing you that the 144K had nothing to do with this parable, and it was not speaking about them, because all 10 virgins fell asleep whilst waiting for their master.  The falling asleep amongst them all represents time lapsing from when the gospels were first preached over 2 thousand years ago to the last days.  During all this time, God has been warning the 7 churches that he was the one who gave them light for their candlesticks in the first place (truth), and if they don't change (repent) from all the various reasons he's given, then he will put out that flame that keeps them going.  To keep a flame burning whether on a candlestick, or in a lantern we need fuel.  That fuel is the Word of the Lord and the truth in his words that we are supposed to live by.  If we are not feeding on his truth, but giving heed to false doctrines, he is the one that will put that flame out.  He does it by keeping the truth from them, because of their own doings,....by not obeying the warnings given.  The flame currently is burning so low, and it will go out completely, this is why we have the "falling away" happening.  Many have gone their own way, but those who wake up in the end (exist in the last days), the Lord will keep enough fuel for them so they can endure for what is to come, and the light will be a guide for them in which road to travel so they can see where they are going and not walk in darkness.

Persecutions of the end time saints is Satan's rebellion towards those who keep the commandments of God and the Lamb.   Satan is persecuting them because of his gripe towards God, and no other reason.  To be persecuted for the Lord's sake, and righteousness is a high honor.  To be persecuted for evil doing is shameful.  If we want to save our life (our souls) we have to follow the Lamb no matter what happens, even if they put us to death, because they did the same to our Lord, and his followers also, but the reward will be great when he returns, and ever lasting life will be given.  If we desire to instead save our physical lives, then we will lose our souls.  It comes down to this decision - what will we chose?  Are we going to ignore the words of Christ, and their deep meanings, or just dismiss it?  His words are our fuel, and we need to receive all his words now to keep the flame burning so we can preserve some strength.

  Matthew 16:25   For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
 

[Sister]

Quote

To me you are referring to a time future when those finding themselves in great tribulation are being killed.  Mat 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. Physically enduring unto the end to enter the millennium is not my idea of deliverance. The church will have been caught away before all this.

Hi Larry 2

You are thinking in fleshly terms again.  That old body is going to die anyway, and when it does it is going to rot.  You are still holding on to the flesh, whereas Christ shows us how depend on that spirit inside us that he will give us.  It's the spirit in man that counts, and it is this spirit of Christ in that man that will be resurrected.  Death is only for a short time, but once resurrected, life is forever.

 John 6:63   It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

[Larry 2]

 

1 hour ago, Sister said:

If we desire to instead save our physical lives, then we will lose our souls.  It comes down to this decision - what will we chose?  Are we going to ignore the words of Christ, and their deep meanings, or just dismiss it? 

The Church believing on the Lord Jesus is ignoring the word of Christ? I do not think much assumption of deep meanings contained in parables affects our eternal life; the gift of God at all.

45 minutes ago, Sister said:

You are thinking in fleshly terms again. 

Okay; thanks.

[Revelation Man]

23 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

It is clear to you, it is not to me, nor is it to many others, isn't that where we disagree? Saying something is clear to you, is not really that helpful to me. I am not fond of pronouncing what is "clear" of defining things (like wrath) into existence. 

It is clear that the Seals are God's wrath. But I agree, the full Seven years is not wrath, but the first 3 1/2 years, as told by Daniel 9:27, is peace or security. But the last 3 1/2 years are all of God' judgments, just like Babylon being sicced on Israel by God, because they deserved judgment, the Anti-Christ is sicced on the world, because it deserves judgment. Babylon will be judged.

 

23 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

To my mind, that has not been established. I do not think the trib is that. I think there is a period of seven years. One of the things that falls within that time frame, is God's wrath. The seven years are the envelope, that contains many things, one of those things is the wrath of God. Wrath is a feature, tribulation is a feature and that trouble is not specified to be only caused by God. The time frame (Daniels 70th week) is not specified as being Gods wrath or being the tribulation, that idea is a feature of pre-tribism, not a feature of Biblical eschatology. Pre-tribism is only one of many, competing theories. Also, there you go again with the:

Daniels 70th Week is the so called Tribulation, it is called that because both Daniel and Jesus said there would be a time of trouble, like never before or never will be. (Daniel 12:1, Matthew 24) Both of these events are triggered by the Abomination of Desolation, so we know this "Troubled time" is only 3 1/2 years. This is why 42 months, 3 1/2 years, time, times and 1/2 time, 1260 days is used over and over throughout scriptures. And it is God's wrath because Jesus opens the Seals. I think most understand that every that says all of the wrath will be God's is not speaking about the full 7 years, but the full wrath. Even in Rev. 17:16 when the Great Harlot is destroyed, 17:17 says God placed this in their hearts. 

 

As per the Rapture being pre, mid or post, I do not think it is even in doubt that God takes out the Church, and then Deals with Israels Repentance. Basically the rapture timing is shown in the Seven Feasts of Leviticus chapter 23.

Spring Feasts that Jesus fulfilled

Passover (applied the blood for us)

Feast of unleavened bread (Jesus was without sin)

Feast of First-fruits (Jesus was the first-fruits by conquering death)

Then you have the Feast that is separate from both the Spring Feasts and Fall Feasts

Feast of Pentecost (Harvest) this is the Church age, we are the body of the sower (Jesus) and we will be a sowing until the Last Trump is blown.

Now the Fall Feast come into play.

Feast of Trumpets ( This Feast does/did nothing but Announce the coming of the Feast of Atonement and Tabernacle and the end of Pentecost. I believe that this Last Trump, as spoken by Paul, the shofar Trump, will announce that the Church Age/Pentecost is over, and the Atonement of Israel is at hand or 70th Week, one of Daniels Six events that must happen before the Messiah returns and Israel turns back to God is atonement, it is a MUST.  Full list :

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think, as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the age.

1. Finish the transgression ( Israel's Revolt against God must end )
2. Make and end of sins ( refers to ending daily sins, only the 1000 reign can bring this in )
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity ( This is the Atonement for sins mentioned above, Jesus blood is finally applied, they accept him as Messiah )
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness ( This is Jesus ruling, no doubt )
5. To seal up vision and prophecy ( All prophecy must be finished and sealed up )
6. Anoint the most Holy ( And Jesus Christ has to be anointed Lord of Lords and King of Kings )

 

So, the Last Trump announces the Church age is over, and the Atonement of Israel is at hand.  (Last Trump, Revelations Seals, Trumps and Vials are announced also, I think it ties in ) This leads to the :

Feast of Atonement. ( Israel being cleansed : Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened (Jesus' blood) to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Feast of Tabernacle ( Tabernacle in Hebrew means dwelling with God ) So Israel is atoned, then they Dwell with God. 

It is pretty clear, the Last Seven year period is about Israel, not the Church.

God Bless, my 2 cents.