Who is Resurrected, and When?

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

Revman.... 

You state that the "word is the word" don't try to change what it says.

You sir, do this repeatedly. You try and change what the Word clearly means/says

Your POINT is Apples to Oranges. In the Beheaded, I argue the truth for TRUTHS SAKE, the facts matter not to my argument if they are ACTUALLY BEHEADED or if they are shot, gassed etc. the same point is proven by me, ONLY those who die as Martyrs during the 70th week will live and reign with Jesus for 1000 years, so me pointing out THE OBVIOUS doesn't change the FACTS. What we can never change is TIMNG UNDERSTANDINGS, you can't shift those wily nily, I can except there are CODES in the book o Revelation that are stand ins, its obvious Babylon = the Whole World, the Harlot = All False Religion, the Woman -= Israel, the number 7 = Divine Completion, the number 10 = Completion, The Dragon = Satan, and on and on and on.

But NEVER SHIFT anything that has to do with TIMING, there are times like the Time, Times and Half where we must convert a code but we know its 1260 days. Your biggest problem brother is you and most others can't get the timing right,  we must solve that by understanding the Rapture is pre trib, no one who fails to see that will ever get the timing of End Time Eschatology right. You get DATES and NUMBERS wrong, which are HUGE CLUES, not meant to be fudged unless you can prove they have an ENCODED MEANING, whenever we see that God has saved himself 7000 men, then you see He has 144,000 then you see in Zechariah 13:8-9 that the "real number" is 1/3 of all end time Jews, these THREE DIFFERENT NUMBERS tell us God is giving us ENCODED LINGO, because God can not lie. Thus both SQUARE ROOT Numbers have a meaning, and we can see it very easily, 7 (Divine Completion) x 10 (Completion) x 10 x 10 = 7000. Then as we can see 12 (Fulness) x 12 x 10 (Completion) x 10 x 10 = 144,000 and we all know the 1/3 will be 1/3 of the End Time Jews, so there are 10 million Jews living in Israel and 5 million in the rest of the world so 3-5 Million Jews will be saved, so the 3-5 million = 7000 = 144,000 they are ALL THE EXACT SAME NUMBER !!

We have to use scripture to decipher scripture, knowing God can not lie !! So, when Babylon is said to be Destroyed in ONE DAY in Rev. 18:8 and in ONE HOUR in Rev. 18:10 we can understand both by looking at Rev. 17:12, the Kings rule ONE HOUR (42 months) with the Beast because we know the Beast rules 42 months so we also know THE DAY of the Lord (God's Wrath) lasts 42 months, thus both mean 42 months. Not one day nor one hour. Jesus told the Disciples he spoke unto them in Parables so hearing they would hear and understand but the world hearing would not understand. SAME PRINCIPLE, God is talking to us in code here, the book of Rev. has 404 verses, and 289 of those verses have Old Testament verbiage in them.

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

You spiritualize, allegorize, metaphorize.... you say "well that's just prose", or it's a code for something else.... anything but what the Word actually states.

Rev 20:4 clearly states "the souls of those who had been beheaded".

But you say NO!..... and your reason for saying NO

"They wrote in the lingo of the time"

And as stated, my argument wins either way. I am going deeper to teach those who are not blessed with the understandings I have received via God's blessings. ONLY those Martyrs remain on earth with Jesus, that's FACTOID because it is stated, REMAINS always means REMAINS, Beheaded can be beheaded, shot, blown up, its all the same, the KEY POINT is they are MARTYRS and thus Jesus told him they were Martyrs, John ASSUMES Beheading or Jesus told him Beheaded instead of trying to spend 2 days explaining what a future Shot Gun or Tank was, CATCH MY DRIFT? But REMAIN always means REMAIN. 

The first day lasted 9.2 Billion years because YOWM mean Period of Time, not DAY. 

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

You don't even believe what you write.

I am just called unto this by God. Remember, Cain had no reason to be jealous of Abel. 

[JoeCanada]

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Your POINT is Apples to Oranges. In the Beheaded, I argue the truth for TRUTHS SAKE, the facts matter not to my argument if they are ACTUALLY BEHEADED or if they are shot, gassed etc. the same point is proven by me, ONLY those who die as Martyrs during the 70th week will live and reign with Jesus for 1000 years, so me pointing out THE OBVIOUS doesn't change the FACTS. What we can never change is TIMNG UNDERSTANDINGS, you can't shift those wily nily, I can except there are CODES in the book o Revelation that are stand ins, its obvious Babylon = the Whole World, the Harlot = All False Religion, the Woman -= Israel, the number 7 = Divine Completion, the number 10 = Completion, The Dragon = Satan, and on and on and on.

But NEVER SHIFT anything that has to do with TIMING, there are times like the Time, Times and Half where we must convert a code but we know its 1260 days. Your biggest problem brother is you and most others can't get the timing right,  we must solve that by understanding the Rapture is pre trib, no one who fails to see that will ever get the timing of End Time Eschatology right. You get DATES and NUMBERS wrong, which are HUGE CLUES, not meant to be fudged unless you can prove they have an ENCODED MEANING, whenever we see that God has saved himself 7000 men, then you see He has 144,000 then you see in Zechariah 13:8-9 that the "real number" is 1/3 of all end time Jews, these THREE DIFFERENT NUMBERS tell us God is giving us ENCODED LINGO, because God can not lie. Thus both SQUARE ROOT Numbers have a meaning, and we can see it very easily, 7 (Divine Completion) x 10 (Completion) x 10 x 10 = 7000. Then as we can see 12 (Fulness) x 12 x 10 (Completion) x 10 x 10 = 144,000 and we all know the 1/3 will be 1/3 of the End Time Jews, so there are 10 million Jews living in Israel and 5 million in the rest of the world so 3-5 Million Jews will be saved, so the 3-5 million = 7000 = 144,000 they are ALL THE EXACT SAME NUMBER !!

We have to use scripture to decipher scripture, knowing God can not lie !! So, when Babylon is said to be Destroyed in ONE DAY in Rev. 18:8 and in ONE HOUR in Rev. 18:10 we can understand both by looking at Rev. 17:12, the Kings rule ONE HOUR (42 months) with the Beast because we know the Beast rules 42 months so we also know THE DAY of the Lord (God's Wrath) lasts 42 months, thus both mean 42 months. Not one day nor one hour. Jesus told the Disciples he spoke unto them in Parables so hearing they would hear and understand but the world hearing would not understand. SAME PRINCIPLE, God is talking to us in code here, the book of Rev. has 404 verses, and 289 of those verses have Old Testament verbiage in them.

And as stated, my argument wins either way. I am going deeper to teach those who are not blessed with the understandings I have received via God's blessings. ONLY those Martyrs remain on earth with Jesus, that's FACTOID because it is stated, REMAINS always means REMAINS, Beheaded can be beheaded, shot, blown up, its all the same, the KEY POINT is they are MARTYRS and thus Jesus told him they were Martyrs, John ASSUMES Beheading or Jesus told him Beheaded instead of trying to spend 2 days explaining what a future Shot Gun or Tank was, CATCH MY DRIFT? But REMAIN always means REMAIN. 

The first day lasted 9.2 Billion years because YOWM mean Period of Time, not DAY. 

I am just called unto this by God. Remember, Cain had no reason to be jealous of Abel. 

Revman,

I truly believe that you are a politician at heart. 

You ramble on and on but never answer a question. You beat around the bush but never come to a sensible conclusion.

You keep saying that " I am called unto prophecy by God" 

Yet you make no sense. Pre-trib is non-biblical. There is not one scripture that you can point to that actually backs up your pre-trib (nonsense). Neither you nor anyone else can. It just doesn't fly.

The "church".... ie, believers in Christ, ie "saints".... ie "bride of Christ"....  will be here during the Great Tribulation.... ie "the 70th week of Daniel".... ie " the time after the AofD...... ie.... "the last 3 1/2 years.....It will be the "churches" finest hour. THEY get  to testify (their testimony) to unbelievers. THEY will become martyrs because of their testimony. 

Oh yes I know.... you will say those are "tribulation saints"...... well hell ya!!!!! put me in that crowd. I want to be in that number!...... "Oh when the saints go marching in"

It's high time that you take a step back and have a real good close look at what you believe you were called to.

 

[JoeCanada]

  On 6/21/2022 at 12:55 PM, Revelation Man said:

Then why are the BIRDS called the Marriage Supper?

Joe Canada replied:

The Birds are NOT called The Marriage Supper.

The Marriage Supper is in Rev 19:9..... "Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb".

The birds are called by God to the "great supper of God".... Rev 19:17

There are 4 suppers in the New Testament. And these two in Revelation are differentiated by :

the marriage supper of the Lamb....

and

the great supper of God.

For someone who constantly reminds his readers that....

" I was actually called unto End Time Eschatology"...... ( words of Rev-man)

that this person surely should be able to discern the difference in the two suppers.

 

So, Revman....

I'm still waiting for your reply... or do you not have one?

[Revelation Man]

17 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Revman,

I truly believe that you are a politician at heart. 

You ramble on and on but never answer a question. You beat around the bush but never come to a sensible conclusion.

No, I just destroy your Pharisee type questions, just like the pharisees were hopeless vs. Jesus you are hopeless vs. me. You try to strain at a gnat to make things fit that will NOT FIT brother. Its amusing to watch someone try to contort the English language in such a manner tbh. I can understand and decipher it all however.

17 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

You keep saying that " I am called unto prophecy by God" 

Yet you make no sense. Pre-trib is non-biblical. There is not one scripture that you can point to that actually backs up your pre-trib (nonsense). Neither you nor anyone else can. It just doesn't fly.

Sure, I have destroyed anyone on here who tries to say its not pre trib, they gallop away. Then there's people like you Joe who just ignore the facts and push on anyway. You have been telling me that 2 + 2 = 99 so long I have just given up on you ever seeing the light on THE TIMING to be honest. When everything I have been saying starts coming true in the next few years, if you are not in the Rapture, or if others are not in it, then they will see it play out just like I called it, if you are in Heaven just before the 70th week, well, you will surely know then that I was right, so ether way, it will come to you in a flash brother.

So, I keep hope alive knowing one day those who don't quite see what I can see will eventually see it all also. Daniel, John, etc. never understood the End Times in full per se, we can, if we can move our pride to the side I did that after 30 years.

I (from what I can tell by others) understand the End Time Eschatology better that any human (Jesus is God) who ever lived because I understand the 1335 and 1290, which is the biggest KEY to understanding all End Time Eschatology. Until one understands the 1335 = the Two-witnesses and that the 1290 comes next and is the False Prophet (a Jewish High Priest gone rogue) and after those two events comes the 1260 Anti-Christ. It is not really possible to understand End Time Eschatology until one get this, and basically no one gets this yet. But these end ties bring forth revelation.

17 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

The "church".... ie, believers in Christ, ie "saints".... ie "bride of Christ"....  will be here during the Great Tribulation.... ie "the 70th week of Daniel".... ie " the time after the AofD...... ie.... "the last 3 1/2 years.....It will be the "churches" finest hour. THEY get  to testify (their testimony) to unbelievers. THEY will become martyrs because of their testimony. 

WRONG on all accounts, of course.

17 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Oh yes I know.... you will say those are "tribulation saints"...... well hell ya!!!!! put me in that crowd. I want to be in that number!...... "Oh when the saints go marching in"

It's high time that you take a step back and have a real good close look at what you believe you were called to.

Maybe you will be, but if you are you will know I was correct. Tomorrow I will (sleepy tonight, my 88 year old mom needs help so todays was my day, been up since early) post here everything that is going to go down during the 70th week, if you are still here, you will see I am 1000 percent correct, print it off and you can then maybe survive. Do not be near California in April of 2029. The Anti-Christ will never rule in the New World, it will burn up mostly. If you can make it before April of 2029 to the Petra and Bozrah area then you will be safe, assuming you are left behind. 

All you have to do is look back at all of my posts, I was saying years ago there is going to be an Iran, Turkey Russia alliance, boom its here. I was saying America has to FALL, why do you think the Libs are bringing in all of these 3rd world citizens? It makes NO SENSE to the logical mind, but Satan needs the USA to FALL FINANCIALLY, then he will have the perfect chance to pit unassimilated millions of desperate refugees against the resentful US Citizens, he already has ginned up animosity between the classes and races so when we fall everyone will blame  everyone else All this has to be done so the E.U. and its Anti-Christ can arise to power.

 

Its Demonic in nature. I stated Israel would do something that makes Russia hate her, Israel has found huge natural gas reserves, she has just made a deal to sell it to Europe. REMEMBER THIS the "Covenant" in Daniel 9:27 is SIMPLY Israel joining the European Union. When she gives up her sovereignty and becomes one small part of the E.U. that is THE TRIGGER. But even that happens after 1 Billion Christians DIE all at the same time (we are CHANGED from a Human form to a Spirit Man to go to Heaven as 1 Cor. 15 says.)

You need to listen, because you are not even close to the target brother. You are hearing truth and like the Pharisees you refuse to receive it. But the truth must still be put forth because one day it will all come to you. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Revelation Man

[Retrobyter]

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Yes, I know our Spirit Man is ONE NEW MAN, meaning we are not slaves to sin any longer.

Shalom, Revelation Man.

Sorry, but this is a WRONG-HEADED view of Ephesians 2! That is NOT what "ONE NEW MAN" means!

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

But I also know each man has DIFFERENT CALLINGS don't you? To one is given the gift of Prophecy, to another healing etc. etc. etc. Likewise Israel has a DIFFERENT CALLING from the Church, one is to Evangelize the Whole World(Church), the others calling (Israel) was to birth the Sacrifice Jesus and to reign under Jesus via the Kingdom Age, in Israel during the 1000 year Kingdom Age.

First, there is NO SUCH THING as a "Church!" It's "churches." We are ONLY meeting together to worship God and help each other out in a literal, physical way. There has NEVER been a "universal congregation."

Second, there is a sense in which the churches of Gentile believers and the children of Israel who accept their Messiah have different callings: 

See, when Yeshua` begins His reign in Jerusalem, He will begin to merge other countries into His own Kingdom, some peacefully as they ask Him to be their King, as well, and some not so peacefully as He subdues His enemies. It will be similar to how He did not want to become Israel's King by force; He preferred to deal with people one-on-one and win them over to Himself. When it comes to other nations, He will deal the same way with them.

As He acquires these other nations, He will need to place client kings in those other countries, kings He can count on for loyalty to Himself and for the proper treatment of that new country within His empire. THAT'S where we fit in. It would be appropriate for a born-again New Zealander, for instance, to become New Zealand's king under the King of kings.

We have some examples in David's and Solomon's Kingdom. Some bordering countries benefitted by being client nations to David's Kingdom. And, Solomon, through the Wisdom God imparted to him, influenced other countries in Africa and Asia.

Well, when a "wiser than Solomon" becomes Israel's King, many more nations are going to heed His advice as His advice becomes truthful and advantageous to other nations.

Much of this is found in the parables of our Lord found in Matthew 13:

Matthew 13:31-33, 44-46 (KJV)

31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,

"The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: 32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof."

This parable speaks to the fact that the Messiah's Kingdom from the sky will start out small, like "a grain of mustard seed." But, when it is mature, it will become huge and provide "branches" large enough for the birds of the air to make their nests. Other nations will find provision within the auspices of His Kingdom as they becomes client kingdoms to His Empire.

33 Another parable spake he unto them;

"The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."

This parable speaks to His INFLUENCE over other nations. He'll provide a little advice, but it will grow until everyone is talking about His wisdom! He'll be better than E. F. Hutton! "When He speaks everyone will listen!"

44 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field."

Here, His Kingdom is likened to a valuable treasure someone discovers by accident. So, valuable will it be to the one who discovers what the Messiah's Kingdom can be in his life, that He will do ANYTHING to acquire membership in His Kingdom!

45 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: 46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it."

This parable speaks to the trading ability of the King of kings. When He discovers something that He deems necessary to acquire, He can liquidate His whole assets and purchase that item and still come out of the deal "smelling like roses!" In other words, He will make wise investments, and this will turn out to be an ability to which others will take notice and attempt to emulate Him in trading!

When Yeshua` haMelekh Yisra'eel needs a new king over a particular country or state or province, He will turn to His pool of worthy believers, the Christians from that particular country. They will have both a love for God and His Son, and they will have a love for their own people. They will be the PERFECT CHOICE for the king of that nation, state, or province. They will deliver the Messiah's message to that nation, and He will be the go-between for them to make their petitions to the Messiah.

Furthermore, one of the biggest duties of a king is to be that nation's JUDGE! While many matters can be delegated to underlings, important matters will be escalated to the Judge, much as we do in the USA to the Supreme Court. And, when the issue is bigger than that king can answer, He can escalate the matter to the King of kings!

This is how the King of kings will handle all judgments that must be made, much as Jethro led Moses to do with the children of Israel. (Exodus 18:13-27).

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 20:4 SPECIFICALLY  says that ONLY those who refused the Mark of the Beast and died as Martyrs (thus the only ones qualified had to have lived during the 70th week) will live and reign with Jesus for 1000 years. Of course this means only those with glorious bodies, not human beings in the Kingdom Age who repopulate the earth.

Nope. You've got to read on! The whole section to which we are referring says this:

Revelation 20:4-6 (KJV)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:

and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 

5 (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) 

This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The Greek of verse 6 is this:

6 μακάριος καὶ ἅγιος ὁ ἔχων μέρος ἐν τῇ ἀναστάσει τῇ πρώτῃ· ἐπὶ τούτων ὁ θάνατος ὁ δεύτερος οὐκ ἔχει ἐξουσίαν, ἀλλ’ ἔσονται ἱερεῖς τοῦ Θεοῦ, καὶ τοῦ Χριστοῦ, καὶ βασιλεύσουσι μετ’ αὐτοῦ [τὰ] χίλια ἔτη.

Transliterated, this becomes:

6 makarios kai hagios ho echoon meros en tee anastasei tee prootee: epi toutoon ho thanatos ho deuteros ouk echei exousian, all' esontai hiereis tou Theou, kai tou Christou, kai basileusousi met' autou [ta] chilia etee.

Translated word-for-word, this is:

6 blessed and holy the-one holding a-part in the resurrection the first: upon these the death the second not holds power/authority, but they-will-be priests of-the God, and of-the Messiah, and they-shall-reign with Him [the] thousand years.

Verse 6 opens it up to EVERYONE "holding a part in the first resurrection!" It's EVERYONE "upon whom the second death holds no authority!" I don't know about you, but I'd say that includes me, too, and to be honest, in spite of my maternal grandmother's claim, I don't know whether I'm Jewish or not, and have always considered myself a Gentile in the past. In any case, this verse opens it up to ALL believers, any one on whom the second death holds no power, not just those who were beheaded for not taking the Mark!

Furthermore, during the 1,000 years, LIFE GOES ON! There will still be humans being born and dying in the Millennium. They will need to be taught, too, about the Messiah and what He has done for them in His death on the cross! Sorry, you can't "opt out and go to Heaven" to escape your duty! And, since our Master said, "I am the Resurrection and the Life," there will still be INDIVIDUAL resurrections and transformatons going on in the Millennium, just as there were resurrections during the Messiah's First Advent, such as Jairus' daughter, the widow woman's son, and Lazarus! There were also many others that both Yeshua` and His disciples performed that were not recorded in the Gospels.

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

So, the Church will not be on earth with Jesus per se, only the Remnant Church seen in Rev. 12:17. The Saints of Israel who are raised might also (probably will) rule with Christ for 1000 years, but not the Church who gets raptured pre trib. I see us coming down with the New Jerusalem, thus its called the Bride of Christ as it descends.

So, indeed Jesus sits on David's Throne, but who sits with him?

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them(Pre Trib Raptured Church are in JUDGMENT FORM), and judgment was given unto them(SEE !!): and I saw the souls of them(Martyrs Seal #5) that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they(ONLY THEM) lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Its real clear brother, ONLY those who REFUSED the Mark f the Beast AND thus laid down their lives will live and reign on this earth with Jess for 1000 years, of course Humans do not live 1000 years, so this is speaking about OVERCOMERS who now have Glorious bodies, but ONLY THEM, not those taken in the Pre Trib Rapture !! I see these things, others seem to pass over, its just my calling, my blessing from an all knowing God. 

Oh, so not only is the "Church" (a false moniker, btw) separated from the children of Israel, but the "Church" itself is divided, as well? Some go up to "Heaven" while some stay here?!

I THANK GOD it doesn't work that way! Bring ALL the parts back together! We're not "going to be in Heaven" during the Millennium when the Messiah is here being God's King for Israel! That's just CRAZY! One things we DO learn from 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is that "so shall we ever be with the Lord!" No, Jews and Gentiles together are ONE NEW MAN! THAT'S what Paul said to the Ephesian Gentiles in Ephesians 2! We will be the subjects of His ONE Kingdom, which occurs here on earth!

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

I know exactly what I am talking about, the Prophecy comes true, no one says its not a REAL EVENT, nor even implies that, I am telling you about what Isaiah Prophesied and Paul spoke of in Romans chapter 11, and how Ezekiel's Prophecy TIES IN. Paul quotes Isaiah 59:20 in verse 26.

Rom. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

So, Paul says ALL Israel will be saved, quoting Isaiah, but Isaiah is speaking about the Nation not ALL Jews. When the Seed of all 12 tribes are saved ALL Israel as a nation will be saved, if you only had 6 tribes left then ALL Israel is not saved.  There will be SEED or Human Beings from every tribe living under Jesus in his 1000 year reign. Of course the Dead Bones are REVIVED!! No one said any different.

No, this is NOT a good way to put these pieces together. One must remember that the Resurrection will include "the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel!"

ALL of the children of Israel, every single individual, will stand before their King and will be given the chance to accept Him as their King or not. We have hints to this effect throughout the Scriptures, but the one that caught my attention was Luke 19!

Now, pay close attention to this, or you might miss the clue:

Luke 19:11-27 (KJV)

11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore,

"A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them,

"'Occupy till I come.'

14 "But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying,

"'We will not have this man to reign over us!'

15 "And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying,

"'Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.'

17 "And he said unto him,

"'Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.'

18 "And the second came, saying,

"'Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 

19 "And he said likewise to him,

"'Be thou also over five cities.'

20 "And another came, saying,

"'Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.'

22 "And he saith unto him,

"'Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?'

24 "And he said unto them that stood by,

"'Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.'

25 "(And they said unto him,

"'Lord, he HATH ten pounds!') 

26"'For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and SLAY them before me!' "

Notice verses 14 and 27, the story outside the story, so to speak, and think about whom He is talking. Isn't He talking about the scribes and Pharisees and Levites and priests who wouldn't have Him to be their King?

When will this happen? When will the Lord become King? Hasn't some time passed between when they refused Him as their King and when the King will be installed?

I submit to you that they will have to be resurrected to stand before the King! He doesn't say that He will confirm their choice with them again after He's installed as King, but I'd like to think He would. Regardless, to these men who refused their King's rule, He will say, "Bring them here and SLAY them before me!"

Who teaches that in today's churches? And yet, this is not only the Scriptures, these are the very words of the Messiah Yeshua` HIMSELF! We've watered down the Scriptures over time and today's message is just too lovey-dovey compared to the TRUE King of Israel!

Here's another quick example: Isaiah 66:15-24.

Isaiah 66:15-24 (KJV)

15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

17 "They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together," saith the LORD.

18 "For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. 19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem," saith the LORD, "as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites," saith the LORD.

22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me," saith the LORD.

24 "And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."

Now, how many churches teach this will happen instead of "going to Heaven when we die?"

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Not so...........

Everything in Zechariah chapter 13 is END TIME EVENTS except  verses 6 & 7 which are pointing to who OPENS the Fountains that are opened in the very end times when Israel REPENTS !! Jesus.

Of course not, but those aren't the only two verses! Look at it again:

Zechariah 13:1-9 (KJV)

1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

2 "And it shall come to pass in that day," saith the LORD of hosts, "that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. 3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him,

"'Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD!':

"and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. 4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive: 5 But he shall say,

"'I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.' 

6 "And one shall say unto him,

"'What are these wounds in thine hands?' 

"Then he shall answer, 

"'Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.'

7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow," saith the LORD of hosts: "smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. 

8 "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land," saith the LORD, "two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say,

"'It is my people':

"and they shall say,

"'The LORD is my God.'"

Matthew 26:31-32 (KJV)

31 Then saith Jesus unto them,

"All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, 'I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.' 32But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee." 

Mark 14:27-28 (KJV)

27 And Jesus saith unto them,

"All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered. 28 But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee."

Because Zechariah 13:7 is quoted by our Lord as happening in the First Century beginning with His own death the next day, we know that this scattering started then. But, the two thirds that died, were those in the FIRST Century. The ONE third that survives is brought through the Fire! I believe this is the same as the Time of Jacob's Trouble that has been happening from then until now, and will continue to happen until our Lord returns.

While Christians have suffered down through the centuries, so have the children of Israel! The Roman persecutions, the "Christian" inquisitions, the Russian pogroms, the European exiles and chasing them from country to country, the Crusades, and the German Holocaust, all of the anti-Semitist persecutions, and now the terrorism of the Islamic nations who want to "drive them into the sea," all show a common hatred against the children of Israel, particularly the Jews, and often because they were the "Christ-killers," without thinking about the fact that Christ died for ALL because of ALL their sins! ALL ot this is the Fire they have been going through, refining them as silver or gold is refined in the fire. 

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Please don't tell me you think 1/3 of all the Jews accepted Christ in the First Century !!

No, they didn't "accept Christ in the First Century," but they WERE the 1/3 scattered at that time! See, it's verses 8 and 9 that EXPAND over time to get us to the 

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

If there is one chapter I know better than all chapters in the bible it is Zechariah 13. Your problem is you see a portion about Jesus and you can't grasp that this prophecy can cover TWO DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS, it is about the end times and in verses 6-7 we see the WHO as in Jesus that's who opened those Fountains, Israel does not repent until the very end. During the 70th week. All you have to do is flip it over to the next chapter brother and that is obvious. Israel is sacked in verses 1-3 when THE DAY OF THE LORD ARRIVES........Then Jesus lands and splits the Mountain in two.

 Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem (not just Rome) to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off (Ezekiel 37 says ALL Israel will be as Dead Men's Bones) from the city.

Jesus' Second Coming: Below

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

You still want to say that Zechariah 13:8-9 is not about the END TIMES when all you have tom do is look at the very next verse and you can see Jerusalem is SACKED, then Jesus SHOWS UP !! You go way to fast brother, you jump to conclusions not warranted my friend. Slow down and let the texts come alive in you. Don't let old opinions drive you 24/7/365. How can Zechariah 13:8-9 be about 70 AD when we see two verse later Jesus shows up and splits the Mount of Olives. Everyone I know understand this is end times lingo brother. The 1/3 is the Jews who are TRIED (Jesus blood). 

It's really quite simple, as I've already explained. The refining process has taken almost 2,000 years now! Of course the splitting of Har HaZeitiym is about the future Second Coming process! Just understand that the 2/3 - 1/3 was about the PAST! Now, it's been so long, that through all the births and deaths from then until the present, it's not looked upon as a "1/3" anymore.

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

And you are correct, the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel is brought back into the Land, not 2 tribes then 10 later, there were NEVER any lost tribes. SEE BELOW:

There was never any lost tribes, watch this 10 Minute video from an Archeologist who shows verse by verse why they were never lost, and how when Assyria surrounded Jerusalem, after many peoples fled from the Northern Kingdoms unto Jerusalem like unto a crowded sheepfold (which he shows Isaiah saying they would do this) then as them Assyrians waited outside, one night the Angel of the Lord came and slew 185,000 Assyrians and King Sennacherib took his troops and went home. 

This guy is fascinating, I found him by watching his discovery of Sodom and Gomorrah, he said he could find no evidence of "Sulfur Balls" he saw in a Museum so he asked a fellow compatriot who told him, you have to go to the Dead Sea to find the evidence, they would have hit and then been extinguished, those not hitting water would have burned up. He did just that and he found them, many many, many of them, and you can put a lighter to them and they will still burn, these came out of the skies no doubt. Watch the 10 Min. video about the supposed lost tribes, there never was such a thing. 

We believers don't fly off to Heaven to laze around and enjoy retirement! God gives us JOBS to do RIGHT HERE on this earth!

Well, with all due respect to this Joel P. Kramer who shares his opinion with us, the records don't show the tribes of Israel like they do the tribes of Yhudah, Binyamin, and Leviy nor is there a record of their return to the Land. The few who never left the Land and intermarried with the Edomites (Idumeans) were called Shomroniym ("Samaritans") by Yeshua`s time. Looked down on as "half-breeds," the Jews had no dealings with them. They didn't come to the Temple to worship YHWH, and they offered sacrifices upon the mountains of Israel.

The two and a half tribes of the Southern Kingdom called "Judah" or Yhudah, as opposed to the 10 and a half tribes of the Northern Kingdom called "Israel" or Yisra'eel, have more ancestry records than the Northern Kingdom does. If the members of the Northern Kingdom were present at all in the return from the Captivity of Babylon and Persia, why don't we have their records?

Some groups of Christians believe that the 10 tribes of Israel found their way into the Saxons and Angles and became foundational ancestry for the English-speaking peoples, even including the United States of America, if their ancestry was the English.

Let's just say, I'm keeping an open mind on the subject. It really doesn't matter because God will bring all of the tribes back to the Land.

Isaiah 49:14-23 (KJV)

14 But Zion said, "The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me."

15 "Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. 16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me. 17 Thy children shall make haste; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee. 18 Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live," saith the LORD, "thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth. 19 For thy waste and thy desolate places, and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the inhabitants, and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away. 20 The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, 'The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell.' 21 Then shalt thou say in thine heart, 'Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been?'"

22 Thus saith the Lord GOD,

"Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. 23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me."

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

That IS NOT THE POINT !! You have to have been  LIVING at the time the Mark of the Beast was given out to have REFUSED it and the instead of taking it given up your life because you SPECIFICALLY REFUSED the Mark of the Beast.

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones (Church is given JUDGMENT here), and they (us/Church) sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them (us): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, AND which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they (ONLY THEM.....as in THEY) lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Not everyone else, why do you think God needs all of us on earth to help him rule? These men have glorious bodies. We will thus return to Heaven to help finish off New Jerusalem, IMHO, and thus as it descends New Jerusalem is called the Bride of Christ because we are in it, descending.

Nope. I still contend that you MUST read through verse 6! And that verse opens it up to ALL who have a part in the First Resurrection!

Secondly, why would Yeshua` need our help to "finish off New Jerusalem?" He's quite capable with His messengers' help, if needed, to do the whole work! Yeshua` said,

John 14:1-3 (KJV)

1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

Does it sound like He needs OUR help?

No, the "bride of Christ" is both a metaphor and a simile for the New Jerusalem itself, not for the people inside it! We will watch it descend and land upon the New Earth. We need to appreciate its magnitude, like Yochanan ("John") did!

Revelation 21:1-2 (KJV)

1 And I saw a new heaven (a new sky) and a new earth: for the first heaven (the first sky) and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared AS a bride adorned for her husband.

This is a SIMILE for the New Jerusalem, and,

Revelation 21:9-11 (KJV)

9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying,

"Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife."

10 And he carried me away in the spirit (on the wind) to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

So, one of the seven messengers who had the seven bowls of the seven last plagues showed Yochanan "the Bride, the Lamb's Wife" by showing him "that huge city, the awesome Yerushalayim."

This is a METAPHOR for the New Jerusalem!

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

The point is ONLY THOSE (THEM......THEY) that REFUSE the Mark of the Beast stays on earth with Jesus for 1000 years. We have to follow the passage, we can't just pretend we know netter.

Yes, the First Resurrection is those raised PRE TRIB RAPTURE and also those Raised and Judged by us (Church) in Rev. 20:4 and only THEY will live and reign on earth with Jesus for 1000 years, which means we do something else !! Which has to be in Heaven, not in earth. I assume we help build New Jerusalem, we will not be useless lazy types, Amen. 

Well, I'm glad you realize that "we will not be useless, lazy types," but you need to see the ENORMITY of the task to rule and reign the entire world!

We will be the "shining ones" as our new PHYSICAL bodies ("flesh and bones," like our Master has) will glow with different intensities and different colors, much as the stars do. Just as Moses' face shown when He came down off Mount Sinai, so we will shine, too. That's what "glory" means. One of my music teachers while I attended Bible college even pointed out that the word should be pronounced "GLOW-ry!"

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

You are great at word definitions, I can study them and get to the bottom of most word definitions myself, but I think you overthink these things, brother. My calling is being able to put END TIME UNDERSTANDINGS together, I do not allowed word definitions to hinder me, I just have that ability, a gift from God, my calling. You see, we are in Christ in Spirit, ALWAYS, but we are not Omni Present, the Lord is, so that means he's always IN US.....at all times, and thus wherever we are at, we ABIDE in his presence, but we are always just in one place ourselves, some will rule on earth in Jesus Presence, other will go back to Heaven and we still abide IN HIM, just like we do now; don't overthink that.

That is correct, we are all made whole through FAITH in Christ, and granted a pardon, nor from our works but from his Grace. But that doesn't mean we do not have different callings, even you and I have DIFFERENT CALLINGS, Israel also has a DIFFERENT CALLING from the Gentile Church. They birthed the Messiah and gave us the LAW whereby men knew they were sinners. Then the Church took the place of Israel because of UNBELIEF and SINS but only for a time (Time of the Gentiles). Then after that time has come full, we will be Raptured and Israel will be on the clock again, she will have 7 years to repent, we see that 1/3 Repents and 2/3 will be cut-off (DIE) and God will bring the 1/3 through the fire and they will call God God and He will call them His Children, then the God of Abraham will set up Jesus on the Throne of David. All those killed by the Anti-Christ and men on earth get VENGEANCE by ruling over those who remain alive, they are those spoken of in Rev. 20:4 who rule with Jesus for 1000 years.

No, sir, that's not what is meant by 1/3 being put "through the fire" to be purified! That purification has been going on since the First Century A.D! It's not a "one third" at the END of their struggles! By the time that the Master returns, they will be made pure for His arrival! They will be READY to accept Him as the Messiah of God! Yes, YHWH Elohiym will set up Yeshua` on the Throne of His ancestor David, but David, too, will be alive to see it done! You still don't see the ENORMITY of "ruling over the earth!" Nor, do you understand the parable of Yeshua` when He said, "I will make you ruler over 10 cities." THAT'S LITERAL!

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

We will be in Heaven for the whole 7oth week (7 years) and we do not go everywhere he goes. When it say we will be with him forever, it simply means we are in Christ forever, as in he alone is our Sabbath Rest. We will always abide in Him; we will not stay up under him 24/7. And thus we can be in Heaven whilst the Martyrs of Rev. 20:4 are on earth and we are STILL IN Christ just as we are now in Christ on this earth, he lives in me now. Paul is speaking to new converts who are wondering when all this is going to take place. So he is overemphasizing points like the Dead on Christ (their loved ones) will be RAISED FIRST, I think we are all taken at the same time because there is no REAL DIFFERENCE in the twinkling of an eye, LOL.

Now, you're just contradicting our Lord Yeshua` when He said, "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also"!

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Who cares, there is no UP in Heaven. There is no North and South. You overthink it.

I don't care we are Harpazoed which means Raptured, you can call it up down or sideways, matters not to me.

I'm saying that "harpazoo" doesn't mean that we're TAKEN UP to heaven! "There is no UP in Heaven," what a ridiculous thing to say!

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Again, call it whatever direction you please, we are taken by force of the Holy Spirit to heaven. I don't get off tracked by minutia.

No, you mean "I don't pay attention to the details!"

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Only if you ignore the words, We are taken BY THE FORCE of the Holy Spirit to Heaven. You have zero hope of winning this debate.

That depends on the reader. If one is willing to be taught, then maybe he or she will be won over to the truth. If one won't be taught, then he or she will remain in ignorance. And, at this point, it is called "ignorance" because one chooses to "ignore" the facts the truth presents.

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

I don't follow other men, I follow the Holy Spirit; way too much of all that stuff is WAY WRONG, and I see people who only latch on to things that help an argument out; I just simply ask God. Much simpler. Why would I need other men when I have the Holy Spirit? 

Because sometimes the Holy Spirit USES "other men" to present His Word in such a way that the reader wasn't seeing it before! You're not the only one who follows the Ruwach haQodesh!

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

I do study it all, but as one called to Prophecy, I actually can put it together; I don't sit around and analyze stuff to death. 1 Cor. 15 is really easy for me; the Holy Spirit showed me this a long time ago.

If you are called to Prophecy, then it's time for you to learn a new truth that will influence the Prophecy, as you know it. Thinking you already have the truth, you've grown stagnant! You can't learn! There's ALWAYS something new to learn in the Scriptures! But, sometimes that requires one to DIG DEEPER! The word "spiritual" in Greek is "pneumatikos." It's an adjective that comes from the Greek noun "pneuma," usually translated as "spirit" (an OLD world translation, from the Latin word "spiritus"), BUT both "pneuma" and "spiritus" mean the "WIND!"

The Greek word, translated as "natural" in some versions, is "psuchikos." It is an adjective that comes from the Greek word "psuchee," a word that was used DIRECTLY to translate the Hebrew word "nefesh." Thus, both "nefesh" and therefore "psuchee" mean "an air-breathing being."

Now, think for a moment what constitutes "breathing." It means "to force air in and out of the lungs by the forces applied to the diaphragm." How does that differ from a "wind?"

"Breathing in" is changing the position of the diaphragm downward to reduce the air pressure in the lungs below the air pressure outside the body, causing air to flow inward.

"Breathing out" is changing the position of the diaphragm upward to increase the air pressure in the lungs above the air pressure outside the body, causing air to flow outward.

A "wind" is "a movement of air caused by changes in air pressure from one location to another."  It's the SAME THING as "breathing," only on a MUCH larger scale!

Thus, the ONLY difference between the two is the SIZE and STRENGTH of the air flow! Assuming our bodies will be about the same size after the Resurrection compared to what we were before we died, then the difference remains in the STRENGTH of the air flow! We will be resurrected as SUPER bodies!

Don't use the phrase "spirit body" because the word "spirit" is used for all sorts of things, and it leaves it in the hands of the reader to imagine what that would mean! Like, you don't think we'll all go around singing "spirituals" forever, do you?

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Those words mean nothing here. The whole verse is about JUXTAPOSING different states of Bodies. He is making that point, thus when he tells the Corinthians there are different bodies, he's doing so to inform them that one day we will be raised as SPIRIT MEN, not as FLESH MEN. We will get our new Glorious bodies in Heaven later on.

NO! That's not accurate! A person IS the body! He doesn't "HAVE a body!" When we are resurrected we will be resurrected JUST LIKE OUR LORD WAS RESURRECTED!

And, once again, I'll point out what He said about Himself, since He could not take a picture:

Luke 24:36-43 (KJV)

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them,

"Peace be unto you."

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38 And he said unto them,

"Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them,

"Have ye here any meat?"

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

This WAS and IS His "spirit body!" It's a REAL, TANGIBLE, PHYSICAL BODY!!! Note, however, that He did NOT say it was a "flesh and blood" body, but a "flesh and bones" body! But, it's STILL FLESH!!!

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

I don't care about 42 you checked, that sidesteps the facts I stated, the FIRST SEVEN stated DEPARTURE, that's a FACT. There can be a million since the KJV that also got it wrong, that's just being cute with the brother. 

"Being cute with the brother?" I don't know what you mean exactly, but I'd just like to hear which versions have the word "departure" in it that you found. I believe that's what you found, but you didn't go into detail. In any case, however, the word means a "departure" in the sense of "desertion," as in a "divorce."

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

NOWHERE is faith spoken of in the whole passage but a Gathering together unto Jesus Christ is spoken of as in a DEPARTURE.

White Horse = a Metaphor for Conquering. We are in Heaven Marrying the Lamb and we return wit him.

Jesus defeats them by the presence of his coming, we do not have to do anything, the Sword of the Spirit fights the battle.

Then, what does He need us for?! Why are we even there? Have you ever thought about that? What is the purpose for the "armies that follow Him on white horses?" Didn't you JUST SAY "white horse = a metaphor for Conquering?"

On 6/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

7 is DIVINE COMPLETION. Thus Chapters 2 and 3 are the Church Age everything after Rev. 4:1 is the HEREAFTER.

It is the Rapture brother.

I am the Greatest, only because I know the GREATEST. Prophecy is my calling. God Bless....got work to do today.

No, there's nothing to suggest a "rapture" in any of the passages to which you've drawn attention. The closest thing is to go up, meet the Lord in the air, and go wherever the Lord goes from there. And, again, why would He turn around and GO BACK where He came from? He JUST RETURNED! We don't need to "escape" the judgments on the earth to be "protected" from those judgments! We just need to be with Him!

Prophecy may be your calling and YHWH Elohiym certainly is the GREATEST, but it's presumptuous to call yourself "the Greatest." I only acknowledge that I am "a cog in the gear." If I can help others or be a blessing to others, then I've served a purpose. To God be the glory.

[Revelation Man]

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Revelation Man.

Sorry, but this is a WRONG-HEADED view of Ephesians 2! That is NOT what "ONE NEW MAN" means!

Of course it is, of course I don't expect you to grasp what the verses actually say. The whole chapter is only about overcoming our sin nature. So, yes its about becoming a NEW MAN in Christ, the old man has passed away.

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

First, there is NO SUCH THING as a "Church!"

Of course there is, it means a BODY and thus we are ONE BODY in Christ Jesus.

 

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

Second, there is a sense in which the churches of Gentile believers and the children of Israel who accept their Messiah have different callings: 

Yes we do, they BIRTHED the Messiah, we DID NOT. They are nowhere to be seen for the 2000 year Church Age, Israel was as Dead Men's Bones. God only brought those bones back to life for His names sake, thus after the Rapture of the Church Israel will be a nation and Jesus will rule from THERE for 1000 years, not from Greece or Rome or the USA. So, that is TWO CLEARLY DIFFERNT CALLNGS. 

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

5 (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) 

This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I know what it means, I study the root words more than you do. 

Verse 5 goes like this:

(But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection. 

Parenthesis is CORRECT but it goes with verse 4, as does "This is the First Resurrection". In other words he tells about the verse 4 "Martyrs" who are the REST of the First Resurrection, along with the Pre Trib Raptured Church then throws in a PARETHESIS in between that and THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION, to let you know the rest of the Dead in Satan will not be raised and judged for 1000 years. That seems to ESCAPE YOU. 

So, he is telling us about the Martyrs in Rev. 20:4 an how they will live and reign with Christ for 1000 years (remember there are really NO VERSES & CHAPTERS) and he is about to say this is (or completes) the first Resurrection and all of the sudden he throws in a PARENTHESIS about the REST OF THE DEAD not being judged for 1000 years. (The WICKED who are of their father Satan)
 

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

Oh, so not only is the "Church" (a false moniker, btw) separated from the children of Israel, but the "Church" itself is divided, as well? Some go up to "Heaven" while some stay here?!

Yes, those 5 Virgins who did not make the Marriage call. Get it now? Now, look at the verse REAL CLOSE, it CAN NOT be Jews, so it can ONLY be the Church.

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

No, this is NOT a good way to put these pieces together. One must remember that the Resurrection will include "the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel!"

The ONLY WAY.

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

Of course not, but those aren't the only two verses! Look at it again:

I know Zechariah 13 like the back of my hand. As I stated, Zechariah 14 PROVES that ch. 13 is END TIMES, case closed.

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

No, they didn't "accept Christ in the First Century," but they WERE the 1/3 scattered at that time! See, it's verses 8 and 9 that EXPAND over time to get us to the 

The verse says 1/3 ACCEPT God (Jesus in Zechariah 12:10 the one whom they PIERCED) and they go through the fire and then call God, God again, and He calls them his children again. CASE CLOSED, that is END TIMES, not 2000 years ago.

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

Well, with all due respect to this Joel P. Kramer who shares his opinion with us, the records don't show the tribes of Israel like they do the tribes of Yhudah, Binyamin, and Leviy nor is there a record of their return to the Land. The few who never left the Land and intermarried with the Edomites (Idumeans) were called Shomroniym ("Samaritans") by Yeshua`s time. Looked down on as "half-breeds," the Jews had no dealings with them. They didn't come to the Temple to worship YHWH, and they offered sacrifices upon the mountains of Israel.

Never heard of him. There are no lost tribes and never were.

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

Nope. I still contend that you MUST read through verse 6! And that verse opens it up to ALL who have a part in the First Resurrection!

I explained this above, the 6th verse has nothing to do with this is the first resurrection except letting us know that the Martyrs were the LAST of the First Resurrection. 

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

Now, you're just contradicting our Lord Yeshua` when He said, "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also"!

You just do not understand it I guess.

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

I'm saying that "harpazoo" doesn't mean that we're TAKEN UP to heaven! "There is no UP in Heaven," what a ridiculous thing to say!

We are TAKEN by force to Heaven, the direction is YOUR OPINION. Lets call it down, matters not to me.

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

Because sometimes the Holy Spirit USES "other men" to present His Word in such a way that the reader wasn't seeing it before! You're not the only one who follows the Ruwach haQodesh!

And since I have the holy spirt I can tell who is of the spirit and who is not. Thus I never follow men.

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

If you are called to Prophecy, then it's time for you to learn a new truth that will influence the Prophecy, as you know it. Thinking you already have the truth, you've grown stagnant! You can't learn!

I know more about end time prophecy that anyone you will ever meet, see or read. Its a true blessing.

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

NO! That's not accurate! A person IS the body! He doesn't "HAVE a body!" When we are resurrected we will be resurrected JUST LIKE OUR LORD WAS RESURRECTED!

1 Cor. 15 STATES there is a flesh body AND there is a SPIRIT BODY, go read it.

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

"Being cute with the brother?" I don't know what you mean exactly, but I'd just like to hear which versions have the word "departure" in it that you found. I believe that's what you found, but you didn't go into detail. In any case, however, the word means a "departure" in the sense of "desertion," as in a "divorce."

FACTS the first 7 said DEPARTURE. 

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

Then, what does He need us for?! Why are we even there? Have you ever thought about that? What is the purpose for the "armies that follow Him on white horses?" Didn't you JUST SAY "white horse = a metaphor for Conquering?"

We are in Christ, stand ye here this day on the side of the Lord. Why did God need Moses to hold up that staff? Not because Moses won the battle but because of Moses' FAITH in God.

On 7/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, Retrobyter said:

No, there's nothing to suggest a "rapture" in any of the passages to which you've drawn attention.

If you do not understand the Pre Trib Rapture then that's on you, and no one who does not see it do I fully trust in the word of God tbh. It makes me look at them as per their understanding with a skeptical eye.

God Bless

Edited July 6, 2022 by Revelation Man

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Of course it is, of course I don't expect you to grasp what the verses actually say. The whole chapter is only about overcoming our sin nature. So, yes its about becoming a NEW MAN in Christ, the ole man has passed away.

Shalom, Revelation Man.

Okay, let's read this chapter again, substituting the antecedents for the pronouns wherever necessary:

Ephesians 2:1-22 (KJV) 

1 And you (Ephesian Gentile believers) hath he quickened (made alive), who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all (Gentile believers and believers of the children of Israel) had our conversation (lifestyle) in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 

4 BUT GOD, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved US, 5 Even when WE were dead in sins, hath quickened US (made us alive) together with Christ (with the Messiah), (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye (Gentile believers) saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye (Ephesian Gentile believers) being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ (outside of the Messiah), being aliens from the commonwealth (citizenship) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God (outside of G0d) in the world: 

13 But now in Christ Jesus (In the Messiah Yeshua`) ye who sometimes were far off (Ephesian Gentiles) are made nigh by the blood of Christ (the blood of the Messiah). 14For he (the Messiah) is our peace, who hath made both (Gentile believers and Jewish believers) ONE, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us (Gentile believers and Jewish believers); 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain (Gentiles and children of Israel) ONE NEW MAN, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both (Gentile believers and believers of the children of Israel) unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (Gentiles), and to them that were nigh (the children of Israel). 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

It should be very clear that the ONE NEW MAN is a MELDING of Gentile believers and believing children of Israel put together in the Messiah. Thus, within the Messiah, there is no more partition -  no more wall - between the two! We see that happening to believers in the Land of Israel today! We can see that there is suddenly no more wall between the Palestinian believers and the Jewish believers! It is THE solution for the Jewish-Palestinian conflict!

Now, if they MEET together in a gathering of the Lord, THEN they are together in a "church," as a "body" of believers, who are "members" of that "body" who can serve one another. 

That is what happened in the "early churches" all across Asia Minor and in Syria. The process expanded in the Roman Empire wherever the Jews were sent and formed synagogues. Paul and other missionaries ("apostles" = "sent ones") went to those synagogues FIRST and then reached out to the surrounding Gentiles.

 

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Of course there is, it means a BODY and thus we are ONE BODY in Christ Jesus.

 

Yes we do, they BIRTHED the Messiah, we DID NOT. They are nowhere to be seen for the 2000 year Church Age, Israel was as Dead Men's Bones.

"Church" doesn't mean "body." A "church" is the "Lord's called-out gathering" of people who then can serve each other LIKE "members (body parts)" of a "body!" When Paul was writing to the Corinthian believers, he had heard that there were FACTIONS in their group! He was using the body analogy to encourage them to WORK TOGETHER as one unit!

When a person has a limb (an arm or a leg) cut off, we say that he has been "dismembered." THAT'S what a "member" is here!

Israel was scattered among the nations, but they were there, too! Just because YOUR exposure to History didn't include them, doesn't mean they weren't there! To the contrary, by the end of the First Century to the mid 300s, many of the so-called "Christian churches" were OSTRACIZING them, calling them "Christ-killers," and began the movement of anti-Semitism against them, particularly within the Roman conglomeration of churches, beginning to call themselves "Catholic" or "Universal!"

They were doing MORE to hunt and kill the Jews, than they themselves were suffering during that time! Now, I understand that individual gatherings of believers were also suffering from the muscle of the early Roman Catholic Church, but not as much as the Jews were - both those within the churches and those without!

Ezekiel 37 is not saying that the children of Israel were AS "Dead Men's Bones." Ezekiel 37 is a prophecy for truly DEAD children of Israel! It will be a LITERAL resurrection!

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

God only brought those bones back to life for His names sake, thus after the Rapture of the Church Israel will be a nation, and Jesus will rule from THERE for 1000 years, not from Greece or Rome or the USA. So, TWO CLEARLY DIFFERNT CALLNGS. 

No! There has been no resurrection, yet! See, you're still divorcing the word "church" from the fact that we are merged as one into the "Olive Tree" of the Messiah! Read Romans 9-11 together in a single sitting, and remember that Paul was a child of Israel!

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I know what it means, I study the root words more than you do. 

Wow! That is quite a claim! I'm glad you "study the root words." However, I don't think you know the grammar, yet. Do you know what suffixes and prefixes are added for the different parts of speech and the different genders, numbers, and cases?

Apparently, you're talking about the Greek; how about the Hebrew? Can you make the same claim? Can you tell me what makes a Hebrew word a noun or a verb? Can you tell me what prefixes and suffixes are added for the different genders and numbers?

I hope your answer to all these questions is "yes," but I doubt it.

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Verse 5 goes like this:

(But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection. 

Parenthesis is CORRECT but it goes with verse 4, as does This is the First Resurrection.

No. The problem, here, is that Yochanan ("Jochan" or "John") is a JEW! He used the methods of Hebrew literature when writing.

The Hebrew literature always began with the main points listed first and then went into the details. So, Yochanan was listing the groups of those resurrected first, and THEN he went back and filled in the details of the First Resurrection. Verses 4 through 6 are ALL about the First Resurrection. The Second Resurrection is listed briefly as a glance forward in time. That's what makes it "parenthetical."

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

In other words he tells about the verse 4 "Martyrs" who are the REST o the First Resurrection, along with the Pre Trib Raptured Church then throw in a PARETHESIS in between that and THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION, to let you know the rest of the Dead in Satan will not be raised and judged for 1000 years. That seems to ESCAPE YOU. 

Not at all. But, you look for ways to separate the children of Israel and the Gentile believers to send one group to "Heaven" while the other is actually DOING something!

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

So, he is telling us about the Martyrs in Rev. 20:4 and how they will live and reign with Christ for 1000 years (remember there are really NO VERSES) and he is about to say this is (or completes) the first Resurrection and all of the suddenly he throws in a PARENTHESIS about the REST OF THE DEAD not being judged for 1000 years.
 

Yes, those 5 Virgins who dd not make the Marriage call. Get it now? Now, look at the verse REAL CLOSE, it CAN NOT be Jews, so it can ONLY be the Church.

The ONLY WAY.

Really? Well, it's no WONDER why you cling to it like a wet cat to a branch over the water! No, verse 6 is also included and makes the count of the FIRST Resurrection greater than merely those who "lost their heads!"

The 10 virgins, who are to be bridesmaids for the wedding, are NOT the bride herself! Yeshua` in Matthew 25:1-13 was simply talking about BEING COMPLETELY READY when the bridegroom comes, because no one knows when He is coming! One will not have time to make some hurried, last-minute preparation, like going to the store to buy more fuel oil! It has absolutely NOTHING to do with some fictional "Church!"

This was YESHUA` who was talking! He was sent only to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel!" THAT is to whom He was talking!

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I know Zechariah 13 like the back of my hand. As I stated, Zechariah 14 PROVES that ch. 13 is END TIMES, case closed.

Wait ... what's that mole on the back of your hand? Was that there before?

Sorry, but not all of Zechariah 13 is in the "END TIMES," unless you want to include Yeshua`s First Advent in the "END TIMES."

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The verse says 1/3 ACCEPT God (Jesus in Zechariah 12:10 the one whom they PIERCED) and they go through the fire and calls God God again and He calls them his children again. CASE CLOSED, that END TIMES, not 2000 years ago.

No, that's NOT what it says! Read it again:

Zechariah 13:7-9 (KJV)

7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow," saith the LORD of hosts: "smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones." [This part happened in the First Century.]

8 "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land," saith the LORD, "two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. [This already happened in 70 A.D!] 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried [This part has been happening since the First Century until now!]: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, 'It is my people': and they shall say, 'The LORD is my God.' " [This part will happen in the future!]

The two thirds DIED! They are part of those who will be RESURRECTED! The third part is those who survived and multiplied during the last 2,000 years! This doesn't say "1/3 ACCEPT God"!

Have you ever considered the names that are listed in Zechariah 12? Did you know that you can find them listed again IN THAT ORDER elsewhere in Scripture? I didn't see it until I studied chapter 12 out of The Complete Jewish Bible:

Z'kharyah 12:9-14 (CJB)

9 "When that day comes, I will seek to destroy
all nations attacking Yerushalayim;
10 and I will pour out on the house of David
and on those living in Yerushalayim
a spirit of grace and prayer;
and they will look to me, whom they pierced."

They will mourn for him
as one mourns for an only son;
they will be in bitterness on his behalf
like the bitterness for a firstborn son.
11 When that day comes, there will be 
great mourning in Yerushalayim,
mourning like that for Hadad-Rimmon
in the Megiddo Valley.
12 Then the land will mourn, 
each family by itself --
the family of the house of David by itself,
and their wives by themselves;
the family of the house of Natan by itself,
and their wives by themselves;
13 the family of the house of Levi by itself,
and their wives by themselves;
the family of the Shim`i by itself,
and their wives by themselves;
14 all the remaining families, each by itself,
and their wives by themselves.

Then, I looked up the name of Shim`i and found it in Luke 3!

Luke 3:23-31 (CJB)

23 Yeshua was about thirty years oldd when he began his public ministry. It was supposed that he was a son of Yosef who was of Eli,
24 of Mattat, of Levi, of Malki, of Yannai, of Yosef,
25 of Mattityahu, of Amotz, of Nachum, of Hesli, of Naggai,
26 of Machat, of Mattityahu, of Shim`i, of Yosef, of Yodah,
27 of Yochanan, of Reisha, of Z'rubavel, of Sh'altiel, of Neri,
28 of Malki, of Addi, of Kosam, of Elmadan, of Er,
29 of Yeshua, of Eli`ezer, of Yoram, of Mattat, of Levi,
30 of Shim`on, of Y'hudah, of Yosef, of Yonam, of Elyakim,
31 of Mal'ah, of Manah, of Mattatah, of Natan, of David, ...

First, notice that "THE Shim`i" IS a "house."

Now, HERE'S the reason for bringing this up: Count the generations in this lineage of Yeshua` between the Shim`i and David! We're looking at 28 names of sons, fathers, and grandfathers here! A LOT of time has passed from the house of David to the Shim`i! Even chapter 12 is talking about the RESURRECTION! ALL of the families of these houses and "all the remaining families" are all present to SEE Him "whom they pierced!"

This is why they mourn for Him as an only son or as a firstborn son! He is their GRANDCHILD, however many GREATS have to be added! THIS is the reason for all of the lineages in the Scriptures: Pick any three, and you have a father, his son, and his grandson! Pick any five, and you have a grandfather, a father, a son, the son's son, and his grandson! This shows a LOT of time has gone by for these many names to be in Yeshua`s lineage, and yet they are all present there to witness the Messiah's arrival and notice that He was pierced!

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Never heard of him. There are no lost tribes and never were.

Perhaps, perhaps not! The guy I mentioned is the one who was talking in the video to which you posted the link!

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I explained this above, the 6th verse has nothing to do with this is the first resurrection except letting us know that the Martyrs were the LAST of the First Resurrection. 

You just do not understand it I guess.

No, you're right. I DON'T know how you've got it so twisted!

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

We are TAKEN by force to Heaven, the direction is YOUR OPINION. Lets call it down, matters not to me.

NO ONE is taken by force to "Heaven!"

The Greek word translated "heaven" is "ouranos," and "ouranos" means the "sky!" There's no such thing as "God's abode!" Yeshua` went up THROUGH the heavens - THROUGH the skies - and went to the New Jerusalem where He's already been adding mansions/rooms for us. When we meet Him in the air, once He has returned to earth, we don't go with Him off-planet at all, let alone going back to the New Jerusalem; we go with Him to the Promised Land, the Land of Israel! Why? Because that's where HE will be! And, He promised that we would be WITH Him! Not off in some "Heaven" far, far away!

The "third heaven" or the "third sky" is the "third sky" IN TIME! The "first sky" was before the Flood of Noach's 600th year. The "second sky" is the current sky in which we breathe and move, and the "third sky" is the "new sky" around the "new earth." That's what Peter tells us in 2 Peter 3:3-13 in conjunction with Revelation 20-21.

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

And since I have the holy spirt I can tell who is of the spirit and who is not. Thus I never follow men.

I know more about end time prophecy that anyone you will ever meet, see or read. Its a true blessing.

Boast much? It doesn't suit a person who knows he is simply a sinner saved by God's grace.

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

1 Cor. 15 STATES there is a flesh body AND there is a SPIRIT BODY, go read it.

That's not what Paul said! He said there is an air-breathing body and there is an air-BLASTING body, but BOTH are bodies of flesh! And, Yeshua` told us that HE as His new body is of "flesh and bones!" In the Resurrection, we too will be flesh and bones, as He is!

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

[The] FACT IS the first 7 said DEPARTURE. 

That's fine, just remember that this "departure" is to "leave someone in divorce!"

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

We are in Christ, stand ye here this day on the side of the Lord. Why did God need Moses to hold up that staff? Not because Moses won the battle but because of Moses' FAITH in God.

If you do not understand the Pre Trib Rapture then that's on you, and no one who does not see it do I fully trust in the word o God tbh. It makes me look at them as per their understanding with a skeptical eye.

God Bless

I understand the Pre-trib Rapture just fine; I just REJECT it as unbiblical. There's no support for it in the Scriptures.

[Revelation Man]

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

It should be very clear that the ONE NEW MAN is a MELDING of Gentile believers and believing children of Israel put together in the Messiah.

All of that writing only to reveal you still can't get that just like YOU & I or OTHERS, have different CALLINGS but are still all ONE in Christ Jesus. So, I suspect you would readily agree this is the case, yet it goes right over your head that this can also be the case for Israel, and the Gentiles. God has a SEPERATE PLAN for both, there were NO Gentiles who helped birth the Messiah, that was a calling unto Israel alone. Then to birth Chris unto the whole world God turned to the Gentiles, this happened because of Israel's repeated sinning, but it also makes COMMON SENSE, God knew that Israel would have a much harder time pushing Christianity worldwide than Gentiles would via pushing it unto their own  peoples, and the goal was to evangelize the whole world.

Then when the Time of he Gentiles comes FULL, the Church is Raptured, and Israel is then back on God's TIME CLOCK? But why? Because Israel's CALLING is without REPENTANCE, as Paul says in Rom. 11 so what was Israel's CALLING ? Read the Old Testament, read Jesus' very own words, read Prophesy, THY KINGDOM COME, Israel is supposed to be ruled by the Messiah for 1000 years in the Kingdom Age with Jesus/Messiah sitting on the Throne of David.

Now, just because Israel's CALLING is different from the Gentile Church's calling, that doesn't mean we are not still ALL ONE in Christ, just like you and I have DIFFERENT CALLINGS but are still ONE in Christ Jesus. So, you are conflating up the whole point.

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

"Church" doesn't mean "body." A "church" is the "Lord's called-out gathering" of people who then can serve each other LIKE "members (body parts)" of a "body!" When Paul was writing to the Corinthian believers, he had heard that there were FACTIONS in their group! He was using the body analogy to encourage them to WORK TOGETHER as one unit!

Well, actually you are wrong her brother, its mind boggling however that you like to argue about minute issues like this which sems a waste of time TBH.

Ekklesia is the word you are referring unto, NOT ME, but lets go with that word, it means a called out assembly. 

Etymologically speaking, the word church means “house of the Lord.” The modern word church is a direct descendant of the Old English word cirice or circe. The first recorded use of the Old English word is from the thirteenth century, and it could refer to either a body of Christian believers or to the place where they gathered. The early Quakers refused to call the building(s) a church because they believed church mean the body of believers. And the Assembly of believers means the EXACT SAME THING, which is why I say it astounds me you like to argue about minutia.

We all know the Church is the Body of Christ, the Assembly are the different parts of ONE BODY of which Christ Jesus is the HEAD, you know this. The case is closed on this as far as I am concerned. Just admit you were in error and lets move on.

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

Israel was scattered among the nations, but they were there, too! Just because YOUR exposure to History didn't include them, doesn't mean they weren't there! To the contrary, by the end of the First Century to the mid 300s, many of the so-called "Christian churches" were OSTRACIZING them, calling them "Christ-killers," and began the movement of anti-Semitism against them, particularly within the Roman conglomeration of churches, beginning to call themselves "Catholic" or "Universal!"

God Himself turned His back on Israel as a Nation fir 2000 years, but he blinded them only IN PART as a Nation, not as individuals. so all Jews should have been happily invited into the body of Christ Jesus. What part of they have a DIFFERENT CALLING makes you think in error I do not love the Jews like I love all peoples? Just because I truthfully say what is going to come down the turn pike doesn't mean anything, I speak the facts and you cany see them, well that's on you brother, not me. A lot of Prophets were stoned because they told the truth, it is what it is.

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

No! There has been no resurrection, yet! See, you're still divorcing the word "church" from the fact that we are merged as one into the "Olive Tree" of the Messiah! Read Romans 9-11 together in a single sitting, and remember that Paul was a child of Israel!

Israel's bones have been QUICKENED, they are ALIVE with TISSUE on their bones and called Israel, they have not yet gotten the BREATH BREATHED into them which will quicken them in Spirit as a Nation of God. That happens during the 70th week. Their CALLINGS is not the calling of the Gentile Church, I don't say their membership is not the same, that's life eternal, I stated THEIR CALLING is different, they Birthed the Messiah and will usher in the Kingdom Age. The Gentile Church's job was to convert the Gentile world unto Christian followers.

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

Not at all. But, you look for ways to separate the children of Israel and the Gentile believers to send one group to "Heaven" while the other is actually DOING something!

Their CALLINGS do not make them separate, that's just in your thinking. Does our DIFFERENT CALLING make us separate? You are overthinking it because you can't or don't see it. 

The Kingdom Age has to have Human Beings putting forth seed or babies in order for Jesus to be able to condemn Satan and his 6000 year reign as Juxtaposed against Jesus' 1000 year reign with zero murder, hate, lust, lies, stealing etc. etc. Meanwhile Satan's ways had billions of men murdered, lies, hate, sins galore etc. That is why the Kingdom Age is a must needs event. This is why Satan is placed in the bottomless pit, not in hell, he needs to be judged.

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

Really? Well, it's no WONDER why you cling to it like a wet cat to a branch over the water! No, verse 6 is also included and makes the count of the FIRST Resurrection greater than merely those who "lost their heads!"

The Martyrs FINISH UP the First Resurrection of BELIEVERS. The portion that says this is the first resurrection, is speaking about the Martyrs in Rev. 20:4. The REST of the Dead are the wicked who are raised LATER of course (1000 years later). If you can't get that simple point then that's on you.

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

Wait ... what's that mole on the back of your hand? Was that there before?

Sorry, but not all of Zechariah 13 is in the "END TIMES," unless you want to include Yeshua`s First Advent in the "END TIMES."

All of it is Prophecy, its telling us about an EVENT (1/3 of the Jews get saved), then to give the reader BEARINGS, Jesus' death is thrown in, the prophecy is nit about Jesus' death its about Israel repenting, but how does that VERSE ONE Fountain get opened up? Jesus des on a cross, betrayed by his friends/peoples. Zechariah 12, 13 and 14 are ALL End Times, just like Rev. 12 is END TIMES and we get a story of how Satan tried to use Herod the Great to kill baby Jesus in verses 1-5, but the Prophecy is ALL about the End times and The Woman (Israel) fleeing unto the Petra/Bozrah area where God will protect them for 1260 days.

You do understand one can tell a story about what is coming in the VERY END TIMES and throw in a hint as to why they have a FOUNTAIN what give them LIFE in that same passage right? When every verse in Zechariah chapters 12, 13 and 14 are about the END TIME 70th week, and you try to infer its about Jesus' time because of TWO VERSES, you do realize you have no leg to stand on right? The Prophet coming from 500 years or so before Jesus and 2500 some odd years before the end times simple gave a COMPLEX PROPHECY that is all about the ed times but gives us a SPLASH about the death of the Messiah which is wat actually SAVES the 1/3 from themselves. 

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

No, that's NOT what it says! Read it again:

Zechariah 13:7-9 (KJV)

Again, this is simple stuff you are overthinking, the VERSES are all about END TIMES, and in two verses we get a flash of WHY the FOUNTAIN was OPENED for SINS & TRANSGRESSIONS !! This is meant to give the Prophet cred to the people, not only did he foreknow the VERY END, but he mixes in the Death of Jesus Christ which happened 2000 years before the VERY END that Zechariah chapters 12, 13 and 14 are all about. 

Daniel gave us Rome AND the VERY END, all in the same passage, Daniel 7:23-26, why is this such a hard concept brother? Daniel 8 does the same thing, as does Daniel 11:21-34-35 (Antiochus) and Daniel 11:36-45 (Anti-Christ) We have to be able to pull all things out of the verses. 

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

The two thirds DIED! They are part of those who will be RESURRECTED! The third part is those who survived and multiplied during the last 2,000 years! This doesn't say "1/3 ACCEPT God"!

No the 2/3 PERISH because the refuse to accept Christ/Repent, it says they are CUT-OFF. (Die)

Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Well, in WHAT DAY? In the Day Israel REPENTS just before the coming Day of the Lord.

IN THAT DAY that Jerusalem is the cup of trembling and burdensome stone early in Zechariah 12, and we see here in that day Israel REPENTS !!

Zechariah 13:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

11 in that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

So, the ABOVE is WHY the Zechariah 13:1 verse states a FOUNTAIN is OPENED unto Israel, because they REPENT, see verse 11, they mourn for the Messiah their pierced. Thus in Zechariah 14:1 we see the Day of the Lord ARRIVES.

 

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

-----------------------

ALL END TIME SCRIPTURES, chapter 12 is The Trembling cup, the burdensome stone, Israel REPENTING and MOURNING, then because they repented a FOUNTAIN is OPENED unto the House of David/Israel in Zechariah 13, where we see that 1/3 of the Jews repent and 2/3 of the Jews refuse to repent, we know this because they get CIT-OFF (die). We know God protects THE WOMAN when the flee Judea that is the 1/3 we see here !!

-------------------------

 

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

THEY REPENT !! Just as Zechariah 12:10:11 states they MOURN for the one they Pierced (Jesus). 

You are beating a dead horse man. The 2/3 because they do not REPENT !! God tells us He protects the Woman in Rev. 12, that is the 1/3, the 2/3 are the ones who refuse to repent, they will perish.

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

Wow! That is quite a claim! I'm glad you "study the root words." However, I don't think you know the grammar, yet. Do you know what suffixes and prefixes are added for the different parts of speech and the different genders, numbers, and cases?

Apparently, you're talking about the Greek; how about the Hebrew? Can you make the same claim? Can you tell me what makes a Hebrew word a noun or a verb? Can you tell me what prefixes and suffixes are added for the different genders and numbers?

I hope your answer to all these questions is "yes," but I doubt it.

I understand the bible, so I evidentially know how to study because you try to pull out all these so called "STUDIES" but then you are wrong on might near everything. I need to study in depth because it my calling of 37 years, its not a part time job with me. I think you study to try and back up your own theories, I study because God demands me to put in lots of hard work in order to understand what a lot of people seem to miss. HINT, the Pharisees could study 24/7365 (360 lol) but they could still not see Jesus, the Disciples studies were enriched by the holy spirit. Your END TINE Product is not there brother, you were not, IMHO, called unto End Time Prophecy, you enjoy it, but its nit your calling, and I can tell. You have to try and resort to minutia on word meanings !! Come on brother. 

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

Perhaps, perhaps not! The guy I mentioned is the one who was talking in the video to which you posted the link!

Fine, I never heard of him, I saw the video and agreed with it. 

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

No, you're right. I DON'T know how you've got it so twisted!

I know how you get twisted. You are following old men's traditions. Is easy to do.

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

NO ONE is taken by force to "Heaven!"

Wordsmithing again, I shant return down that rabbit hole.

Jesus will take us BY FORCE when he blows the Last Trump. 

END DEBATE/

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

Boast much? It doesn't suit a person who knows he is simply a sinner saved by God's grace.

My boasting is in the Holy Spirits BLESSINGS. When one ends his own pride in life Christ can then use and teach him. When we get to Heaven, 99 percent of everything you say here will be proven in error, and 99.9 percent of what I say will be factual truths as given unto me by the Holy Spirit.

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

That's not what Paul said! He said there is an air-breathing body and there is an air-BLASTING body, but BOTH are bodies of flesh! And, Yeshua` told us that HE as His new body is of "flesh and bones!" In the Resurrection, we too will be flesh and bones, as He is!

BOOM..........

1 Cor. 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

So, when we get raised how are we raised? In a SPIRITUAL BODY, just as I told you. If you would slow down and read you would see these obvious understandings brother, you are trying to go 100 miles an hour. You already "know it all" The EXACT SAME THING the Holy Spirit told me about 6 or 7 years ago, he said, "Ron, you guys already know it all" that is when everything CHANGED for me. The above shows you in error brother. But can you accept it? 

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

That's fine, just remember that this "departure" is to "leave someone in divorce!"

This DEPARTURE is from a STANDING on this EARTH via the Gathering together of the Church unto Christ as verse 1 says. 

On 7/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

I understand the Pre-trib Rapture just fine; I just REJECT it as unbiblical. There's no support for it in the Scriptures.

Of course you do, else you wouldn't be in error on 99 percent of all End Time Eschatology. 

God Bless

[Retrobyter]

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

All of that writing only to reveal you still can't get that just like YOU & I or OTHERS, have different CALLINGS but are still all ONE in Christ Jesus. So, I suspect you would readily agree this is the case, yet it goes right over your head that this can also be the case for Israel, and the Gentiles. God has a SEPERATE PLAN for both, there were NO Gentiles who helped birth the Messiah, that was a calling unto Israel alone.

Shalom, Revelation Man.

Well, that's partially true, but you're wrong to say that "No Gentiles ... helped birth the Messiah" Remember Ruth? Remember Rahab? Remember the Gibeonites? These were all Gentiles and they all had a hand in birthing the Messiah.

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Then to birth Chris unto the whole world God turned to the Gentiles, this happened because of Israel's repeated sinning, but it also makes COMMON SENSE. God knew that Israel would have a much harder time pushing Christianity worldwide than Gentiles would via pushing it unto their own peoples, and the goal was to evangelize the whole world. 

Yes, but remember Paul taught "to the Jew first and also to the Gentile." We've kinda left the "to the Jew first" part out in these current times.

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Then when the Time of he Gentiles comes FULL, the Church is Raptured, and Israel is then back on God's TIME CLOCK? But why? Because Israel's CALLING is without REPENTANCE, as Paul says in Rom. 11 so what was Israel's CALLING ? Read the Old Testament, read Jesus' very own words, read Prophesy, THY KINGDOM COME, Israel is supposed to be ruled by the Messiah for 1000 years in the Kingdom Age with Jesus/Messiah sitting on the Throne of David.

I really agree with you on this part with the exception of one thing: "the Church is Raptured." WHY?! It's not the Jews that I think you have wrong; it's the rapture of the churches! of the Gentile believers! Why would you deny them the time to help with God's Kingdom under the leadership of King Yeshua`? THAT'S the part that is SO MESSED UP!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Now, just because Israel's CALLING is different from the Gentile Church's calling, that doesn't mean we are not still ALL ONE in Christ, just like you and I have DIFFERENT CALLINGS but are still ONE in Christ Jesus. So, you are conflating up the whole point.

Well, actually you are wrong here brother, it's mind boggling however that you like to argue about minute issues like this which seems a waste of time TBH.

Ekklesia is the word you are referring unto, NOT ME, but lets go with that word, it means a called out assembly. 

Etymologically speaking, the word church means “house of the Lord.”

No, "church" does NOT mean the "house of the Lord!" It means a "called-out gathering of the Lord." It's IMPORTANT to get things right! To do otherwise is to invite more error into the theology!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

The modern word church is a direct descendant of the Old English word cirice or circe. 

You've got to keep going in the etymology of a word! To this much, a dictionary I use adds " related to Dutch kerk and German Kirche, based on medieval Greek kurikon, from Greek kuriakon (dōma) ‘Lord's (house)’, from kurios ‘master or lord’."

In truth, however, seldom does one see "kuriokon dooma" as the "house of-the-Lord." Instead, it is the "kuriokon ekkleesia" or the "called-out-gathering of the Lord." 

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

The first recorded use of the Old English word is from the thirteenth century, and it could refer to either a body of Christian believers or to the place where they gathered. The early Quakers refused to call the building(s) a church because they believed church mean the body of believers. And the Assembly of believers means the EXACT SAME THING, which is why I say it astounds me you like to argue about minutia.

Well, the Quakers were right! It's an error to think of the building as the "church"; it's the PEOPLE who are the "church," the "ekkleesia."

Here's one reason why the minutia are so valuable: If one thinks of the BUILDING as the "church," then it's NO WONDER why they so embellish the church buildings, putting so much money and gold and jewels into the building of them! It's not that big of a deal if so few members actually attend this huge monstrosities, because it's the BUILDING that's important! See how that could be a problem?

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

We all know the Church is the Body of Christ, the Assembly are the different parts of ONE BODY of which Christ Jesus is the HEAD, you know this. The case is closed on this as far as I am concerned. Just admit you were in error and lets move on.

NO! It's important to understand that it's all about the GROUPS OF PEOPLE who attend these gatherings that constitute the church! And, Paul NEVER used the word "Church" as though it was some separate entity! He used the word "churches" when speaking of multiple congregations! Why do you think it was so important to him to start a new church in each community he came to? You may think I'm just nit-picking, but it is IMPERATIVE to get this right, or more error will be introduced!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

God Himself turned His back on Israel as a Nation for 2000 years, but he blinded them only IN PART as a Nation, not as individuals. so all Jews should have been happily invited into the body of Christ Jesus. What part of "they have a DIFFERENT CALLING" makes you think in error I do not love the Jews like I love all peoples?

First, God has NEVER "turned His back on Israel as a Nation!" Let's get that straight! He has dealt with them as a wayward child, but He has NEVER abandoned them!

Second, He blinded them as individuals, as well! Why do you think they have such a hard time even LISTENING to a "missionary?"

Third, I never said that I think you "do not love the Jews like you love all peoples!" On the other hand, I can feel confident to say that you don't love them MORE than you love all other peoples! Yet, how are we commanded in the Scriptures?

"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem!" “Sing with gladness for Jacob, And shout among the chief of the nations; Proclaim, give praise, and say, ‘O Lord, save (rescue) Your people, The remnant of Israel!’"

Look at the WHOLE resurrection chapter in the OT!

Ezekiel 37:1-28 (KJV)

1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, 2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry. 3 And he said unto me,

"Son of man, can these bones live?"

And I answered,

"O Lord GOD, thou knowest."

4 Again he said unto me,

"Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them,

"'O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. 5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones;

"'"Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: 6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD."'"

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. 9 Then said he unto me,

"Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind,

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live."'"

10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

11 Then he said unto me,

"Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say,

"'Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.'

12 "Therefore prophesy and say unto them,

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it," saith the LORD.'"

15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 

16 "Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, 'For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions': then take another stick, and write upon it, 'For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions': 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, 'Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?' 19 Say unto them,

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand."'

20 "And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21 And say unto them,

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

24 "'"And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."'"

 So, it's not just the "Remnant" that physically survives to the Coming of the Messiah, it's the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel, including those who are RESURRECTED!

Yeshua` will want them ALL there at His Coronation!

His Kingdom will involve them ALL! And, the scribes and the Pharisees and Levites and priests who denied Him as their King, will stand before Him to give answer for their treatment of Him! He will say, "SLAY them before me!"

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Just because I truthfully say what is going to come down the turn pike doesn't mean anything, I speak the facts and you can't see them, well that's on you brother, not me. A lot of Prophets were stoned because they told the truth, it is what it is.

Well, I see thing DIFFERENTLY than you do. But, let's let GOD tell us who's right or wrong. I speak facts, too, brother. And, you won't even give them the time of day!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Israel's bones have been QUICKENED, they are ALIVE with TISSUE on their bones and called Israel, they have not yet gotten the BREATH BREATHED into them which will quicken them in Spirit as a Nation of God. That happens during the 70th week.

Nope! They are resurrected when the Gentile believers are resurrected, and they've not been resurrected literally, yet! Ezekiel 37 is not a figurative vision of the NATION of Israel; it's a LITERAL RESURRECTION of each and every member of the children of Israel down through time! In fact, I believe it will be a LITERAL RESURRECTION of ALL peoples down through time who have trusted God!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Their CALLINGS is not the calling of the Gentile Church, I don't say their membership is not the same, that's life eternal, I stated THEIR CALLING is different, they Birthed the Messiah and will usher in the Kingdom Age. The Gentile Church's job was to convert the Gentile world into Christian followers.

Their CALLINGS do not make them separate, that's just in your thinking. Does our DIFFERENT CALLING make us separate? You are overthinking it because you can't or don't see it. 

Well, you're still treating the "Gentile Church" as DIFFERENT THAN the children of Israel! In the Messiah, THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE!!!

You're still thinking that Gentile believers ("Christian followers") go to Heaven during the Millennium. IMO, that's just NUTS! Gentile believers need to be here to help in the management of the Kingdom! They will be some of the "kings" in the title "the King of kings!" It will be just as Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, who directed Moses to delegate judgment! (Exodus 18).

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

The Kingdom Age has to have Human Beings putting forth seed or babies in order for Jesus to be able to condemn Satan and his 6000 year reign as Juxtaposed against Jesus' 1000 year reign with zero murder, hate, lust, lies, stealing etc. etc. Meanwhile Satan's ways had billions of men murdered, lies, hate, sins galore etc. That is why the Kingdom Age is a must needs event. This is why Satan is placed in the bottomless pit, not in hell, he needs to be judged.

Within His KIngdom these things will be eliminated, but outside of His Kingdom, while His Kingdom is growing until it envelops the earth, there will still be murder, hatred, lust, lies, stealing, etc. Those don't come from haSatan; they come from the hearts of PEOPLE! That's one of the things the Millennium will show! Until He subdues all of His enemies, there will still be such sin in the world. That's why there's a Millennium! It's the CLEAN-UP phase before YHWH God takes full control of His Kingdom. The earth and its people must be CLEAN, PURE, HOLY before YHWH God will tolerate it!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

The Martyrs FINISH UP the First Resurrection of BELIEVERS. The portion that says this is the first resurrection, is speaking about the Martyrs in Rev. 20:4. The REST of the Dead are the wicked who are raised LATER of course (1000 years later). If you can't get that simple point then that's on you.

Well, you're not paying attention to verses 4-6. He will need us ALL in the Millennial Kingdom, not just the "Martyrs" (which means "Witnesses," btw). Why should ANYONE who is supposed to be "in His Kingdom" be taken to some "Heaven" to stay for the Millennium? No, there is MUCH to do HERE for a THOUSAND YEARS!

This year is 2022 A.D. Do you know what was going on in 1022 A.D? Do you realize what kind of tools and weapons they had to work with in 1022 A.D? A THOUSAND YEARS is a VERY long time! And, the number of nations of the earth is a VERY large number!

WorldAtlas.com says,

"If you were to ask ten people how many countries are in the world, you would probably hear ten different answers. Here at Worldatlas.com, we state 195 countries based on the 193 that belong to the United Nations (UN) plus the Holy See (Vatican) and the State of Palestine, which are non-member observer states. However, the State of Palestine, is only recognized by 138 of the 193 United Nations member states and countries like the United States, and Canada do not recognize it.  

"The United States officially recognizes 195 countries as well; but instead of recognizing the State of Palestine, it recognizes Kosovo. Only 97 out of the 193 United Nations member states recognize Kosovo. In particular, Spain is one of the biggest opponents due to its opposition to the Basque and Catalan independence movements within its own country." (See WorldAtlas.com.)

This doesn't even include tribes who consider themselves to be independent peoples, such as those in the jungles of Africa and Brazil! Even the aboriginal inhabitants of Australia might be considered a separate people!

In each and every one of these nations and peoples, Yeshua` haMelekh haMashiyach Elohiym ("Jesus the King, the Messiah of God") will need representatives to speak for Him in those countries and peoples. To those He can say, "You've been faithful in a few things, be ruler over ten towns (or five towns)." (Luke 19).

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

All of it is Prophecy, its telling us about an EVENT (1/3 of the Jews get saved), then to give the reader BEARINGS, Jesus' death is thrown in;

No, it's not. It's telling us that 1/3 of the Jews SURVIVE an event that KILLS 2/3 of them! Why are you looking in the prophecies for someone to "get saved?" "Saved," particularly in the OT prophecies, is about RESCUE! And, it's not about being "rescued from sin" as much as it is about the PEOPLE of God being "rescued" from genocide!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

The prophecy is not about Jesus' death; it's about Israel repenting, but how does that VERSE ONE Fountain get opened up? Jesus dies on a cross, betrayed by his friends/peoples. Zechariah 12, 13 and 14 are ALL End Times, just like Rev. 12 is END TIMES and we get a story of how Satan tried to use Herod the Great to kill baby Jesus in verses 1-5, but the Prophecy is ALL about the End times and The Woman (Israel) fleeing unto the Petra/Bozrah area where God will protect them for 1260 days.

I agree! All of Zechariah 12-14 are future prophecies of the end times. HOWEVER, Zechariah 13:7-9 is a FLASHBACK as to the REASON why we've come to this in the future! It EXPLAINS the "abominations" of the scribes and Pharisees for which Yeshua` left them "desolate!" And, they will CONTINUE to be destitute until they can welcome the Messiah back!

Zechariah 13:7-9 (KJV)

7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

8 "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land (Hebrew: b'kaal haa'aarets = 'in-all the-Land [of Israel]')," saith the LORD, "two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 "And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, 'It is my people!' : and they shall say, 'The LORD (YHWH) is my God!'"

Matthew 26:31 and Mark 14:27 both quote this passage about the disciples (the sheep) being scattered when the Messiah Yeshua` is arrested, tried, and condemned to the execution stake!

Matthew 26:31-32 (KJV)

31 Then saith Jesus unto them,

"All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written,

"'I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.' 

32 "But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee."

Mark 14:27-28 (KJV)

27 And Jesus saith unto them,

"All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written,

"'I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.'

28"But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee."

The prophecies tell us that He starts the slaughter FIRST in Botsrah ("Bozrah") of Edowm. Why? Because God said He has a "controversy" with Edowm over the children of Israel!

Isaiah 34:1-10 (KJV)

1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.

2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

3 "Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

4 "And all the host of heaven (Hebrew: tsVaa' hashaamayim = 'army of the skies,' airforces) shall be dissolved, and the heavens (Hebrew: hashaamayim = "the skies") shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down (Hebrew: vkaal tsVaa'aam yibowl = 'and-all their-armies shall-fall-down-senselessly'), as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven (Hebrew: bashaamayim = "in-the-skies"): behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment."

6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch (Hebrew: zefet = "asphalt, tar"), and the dust thereof into brimstone (Hebrew: gaafriyt = "sulfur"), and the land thereof shall become burning pitch (tar).

10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

That's where He first dips His clothing in the blood of His enemies! By the time Revelation 19 rolls around, He's already in clothes dipped (baptized) in blood, appearing with His holy ones on white horses, for the final battle before the Millennium commences!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

You do understand one can tell a story about what is coming in the VERY END TIMES and throw in a hint as to why they have a FOUNTAIN what give them LIFE in that same passage right? When every verse in Zechariah chapters 12, 13 and 14 are about the END TIME 70th week, and you try to infer its about Jesus' time because of TWO VERSES, you do realize you have no leg to stand on right? The Prophet coming from 500 years or so before Jesus and 2500 some odd years before the end times simple gave a COMPLEX PROPHECY that is all about the ed times but gives us a SPLASH about the death of the Messiah which is wat actually SAVES the 1/3 from themselves. 

I wasn't saying that it was about Yeshua`s time; I was saying that the FLASHBACK of verses 7 and 8 is about Yeshua` time and BEYOND!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Again, this is simple stuff you are overthinking, the VERSES are all about END TIMES, and in two verses we get a flash of WHY the FOUNTAIN was OPENED for SINS & TRANSGRESSIONS !! This is meant to give the Prophet cred to the people, not only did he foreknow the VERY END, but he mixes in the Death of Jesus Christ which happened 2000 years before the VERY END that Zechariah chapters 12, 13 and 14 are all about. 

Daniel gave us Rome AND the VERY END, all in the same passage, Daniel 7:23-26, why is this such a hard concept brother? Daniel 8 does the same thing, as does Daniel 11:21-34-35 (Antiochus) and Daniel 11:36-45 (Anti-Christ) We have to be able to pull all things out of the verses. 

No the 2/3 PERISH because they refuse to accept Christ/Repent, it says they are CUT-OFF. (Die)

I agree, but they DIED in the great slaughter of 70 A.D! Then the 1/3 that survived has suffered since then all because of their treatment of the Messiah! That's how they got in this pickle of the future! They are being REFINED!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Well, in WHAT DAY? In the Day Israel REPENTS just before the coming Day of the Lord.

IN THAT DAY that Jerusalem is the cup of trembling and burdensome stone early in Zechariah 12, and we see here in that day Israel REPENTS !!

Zechariah 13:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

11 in that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

So, the ABOVE is WHY the Zechariah 13:1 verse states a FOUNTAIN is OPENED unto Israel, because they REPENT, see verse 11, they mourn for the Messiah their pierced. Thus in Zechariah 14:1 we see the Day of the Lord ARRIVES.

I agree with more of this than you're thinking I do! Verse 9 is indeed in the future, as well as the rest of the three chapters!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

-----------------------

ALL END TIME SCRIPTURES, chapter 12 is The Trembling cup, the burdensome stone, Israel REPENTING and MOURNING, then because they repented a FOUNTAIN is OPENED unto the House of David/Israel in Zechariah 13, where we see that 1/3 of the Jews repent and 2/3 of the Jews refuse to repent, we know this because they get CIT-OFF (die). We know God protects THE WOMAN when the flee Judea that is the 1/3 we see here !!

-------------------------

For the most part, I agree! I'm only telling you that the 1/3 was IN THE PAST! 2/3 of the Jews died THEN, IN THE PAST!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

This is the ONLY point of contention between us about this passage. When He told us "I will bring the third part through the fire," that was and IS a very long process! It started in the First Century, but it's STILL going on today! The Jews aren't READY, YET!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

THEY REPENT !! Just as Zechariah 12:10:11 states they MOURN for the one they Pierced (Jesus). 

You are beating a dead horse man. The 2/3 because they do not REPENT !! God tells us He protects the Woman in Rev. 12, that is the 1/3, the 2/3 are the ones who refuse to repent, they will perish.

No. See, HERE is that point of contention: The 2/3 that died are IN THE PAST and must be RESURRECTED! They ALREADY "perished!" The 1/3 is ALL THERE IS OF THE JEWS TODAY! There will be FAR more Jews who accept their Messiah than you are thinking there will be! Not only will He return as expected (even if they think He is coming the first time), but He will also show great miracles that the Jews will see and by which they will believe, and if that's not all, they will have all the loved ones who have died and come back in the resurrection! And, THEY will attest to Him being their blood relative and the rightful heir to David's throne!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

I understand the bible, so I evidentially know how to study because you try to pull out all these so called "STUDIES" but then you are wrong on might near everything. I need to study in depth because it my calling of 37 years, its not a part time job with me. I think you study to try and back up your own theories, I study because God demands me to put in lots of hard work in order to understand what a lot of people seem to miss. HINT, the Pharisees could study 24/7/365 (360 lol) but they could still not see Jesus, the Disciples studies were enriched by the Holy Spirit. Your END TIME Product is not there brother, you were not, IMHO, called unto End Time Prophecy, you enjoy it, but its not your calling, and I can tell. You have to try and resort to minutia on word meanings !! Come on brother. 

Well, the "minutia" are IMPORTANT! It's been my calling since 1977, ever since the complete revamping of my theology, particularly eschatology and prophecy.

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Fine, I never heard of him, I saw the video and agreed with it. 

Not important. It's okay.

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

I know how you get twisted. You are following old men's traditions. It's easy to do.

LOL! I don't know ANY "old men" who believe as I do! The "old men" believe in the things that are archaic, like the RAPTURE!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Wordsmithing again, I shant return down that rabbit hole.

It's not wordsmithing to say that the Greek words "ho ouranos" means "the sky." That's just what they mean! To EXPAND this simple definition to include some "God's abode" called "Heaven" is the "wordsmithing," and no one in this generation started it! It was started LONG AGO, most likely in the Dark Ages, where one sees pictures of Hell beneath, the Earth's surface, and Heaven above! That's a VERY simplistic view that should have been corrected a long time ago! As soon as we discovered that the earth is a round spheroid, those pictures should have been discarded! Now, we think of "down" as toward the center of the earth. "Up" is anywhere perpendicular to the curved surface of the earth outward!

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

Jesus will take us BY FORCE when he blows the Last Trump. 

END DEBATE/

Really? Even when the "Last Trump" is NOT the "last Trump?!"

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

My boasting is in the Holy Spirit's BLESSINGS. When one ends his own pride in life Christ can then use and teach him. When we get to Heaven, 99 percent of everything you say here will be proven in error, and 99.9 percent of what I say will be factual truths as given unto me by the Holy Spirit.

LOL! IF you get to Heaven, you mean! How have people described "Heaven?" Don't they ALWAYS use the description of the New Jerusalem? "Pearly gates," "streets of gold," "jasper walls," etc.? Well, I TOTALLY believe in the New Jerusalem, just not some ethereal place called "Heaven!"

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

BOOM..........

1 Cor. 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

So, when we get raised how are we raised? In a SPIRITUAL BODY, just as I told you.

The key word is "BODY!" It is the PHYSICAL, MATERIAL, "FLESH AND BONES" body like our Lord Yeshua` has! It does NOT mean some ridiculous body that's not physical! Don't look up the word "spiritual," that's just "pneumatikos," which Rapture-believing people, like the Independent Baptists from which I come, have used. It comes from "pneuma," meaning "wind."

Instead, look up the word "NATURAL!" THAT'S a key word in Greek, because that is the word being compared to "pneumatikos." The word "sooma" (where "oo" represents an omega) is the same for BOTH "natural body" and "spiritual body!"

The word "NATURAL" comes from the Greek word "psuchikos," which stems from the word "psuchee," usually translated as "soul!" So, they translated "pneumatikos" as "spirit-ual," but they didn't translate "psuchikos" as "soul-ual," they translated it as "natural," instead! Why is that? I believe it's because they didn't understand what Paul was talking about! At the time, the Greek translators didn't know what the Hebrew word "nefesh" meant (or they did and just thought it wasn't important)!

Paul made a very good translation between the Greek of 1 Corinthians 15:45 and the Hebrew of Genesis 2:7.

Here's Genesis 2:7 in Hebrew:

וַיִּיצֶר֩ יְהוָ֨ה אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶת־הָֽאָדָ֗ם עָפָר֙ מִן־הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה וַיִּפַּ֥ח בְּאַפָּ֖יו נִשְׁמַ֣ת חַיִּ֑ים וַֽיְהִ֥י הָֽאָדָ֖ם לְנֶ֥פֶשׁ חַיָּֽה׃

Here's 1 Corinthians 15:45 in Greek:

οὕτω καὶ γέγραπται, Ἐγένετο ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος Ἀδὰμ εἰς ψυχὴν ζωσαν. ὁ ἔσχατος Ἀδὰμ εἰς πνεῦμα ζωοποιοῦν.

"And-made" (וַֽיְהִ֥י) was translated to "was-made" (Ἐγένετο).
"the-man" (הָֽאָדָ֖ם) was translated to "the man" (ὁ ἄνθρωπος), with "first" (πρῶτος) thrown in.
Then, Paul repeats the Hebrew word as a name (אָדָ֖ם), Adam (Ἀδὰμ).
The lamed prefix meaning "to" or "into" (לְ) was translated to "into" (εἰς).
The word translated "soul" (נֶ֥פֶשׁ) was translated into the word "soul" (ψυχὴν).
And, the word translated as "living" (חַיָּֽה) was translated as "living" (ζωσαν).

THEREFORE, the word "psucheen" (ψυχὴν) means the same thing as "nefesh" (נֶ֥פֶשׁ), as far as Paul was concerned.

Let me give you the definition of nefesh in Strong's Concordance in the Hebrew dictionary:

5315 nephesh (nefesh) (neh'-fesh). From naphash (naafash); properly, a breathing creature, i.e. Animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):
-- any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

(For a moment, look at all the ways that this ONE Hebrew word was translated in the KJV, all the words that follow the dash [--]!)

Now, this word comes "From naphash (naafash)"; so, we look up that word:

5314 naphash (naafash) (naw-fash'). A primitive root; to breathe; passively, to be breathed upon, i.e. (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a current of air):
-- (be) refresh selves (-ed).

So, "to breathe" --> "a breathing creature." I like to throw in the word "air-" since what else do we breathe? "An air-breathing creature!"

Now, what breathes air? Isn't it the lungs of our body? So, the words "psucheen" and "nefesh" both mean "an air-breathing creature!" And, since these words were both translated as the English word "soul," that's what "soul" means, too! "An air-breathing creature!"

On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 PM, Revelation Man said:

If you would slow down and read you would see these obvious understandings brother, you are trying to go 100 miles an hour. You already "know it all" The EXACT SAME THING the Holy Spirit told me about 6 or 7 years ago, he said, "Ron, you guys already know it all" that is when everything CHANGED for me. The above shows you in error brother. But can you accept it? 

This DEPARTURE is from a STANDING on this EARTH via the Gathering together of the Church unto Christ as verse 1 says. 

Of course you do, else you wouldn't be in error on 99 percent of all End Time Eschatology. 

God Bless

I just don't think their as "obvious" as you're making these "understandings" out to be! You haven't "shown me in error" at all, brother. And, no, I can't accept what I know to be false. I'm only "in error on 99 percent of all End Time Eschatology" IN YOUR OPINION. I've accepted the FACT that Jews and Gentiles are ONE in the Messiah! Since the Messiah comes to reign on this earth, then WE TOO should be with Him to reign upon this earth, (and that's what Revelation 20:6 says)! However, one must FIRST understand that we are GRAFTED IN to the Messiah's "Olive Tree," His Kingdom!

[iamlamad]

On 5/29/2022 at 5:28 AM, Diaste said:

... Unequivocally the group in heaven in Rev 7 came out from within GT and from no other time.

This is not an easy passage to understand. Yes, it is written that they came out of GT, but WHICH GT? The one Jesus said would come after the abomination? 

I find that theory very difficult to believe, for in John's narrative, he has not yet even started the 70th week, much less arrived at the midpoint where the abomination will divide the week. Therefore, I don't believe this is the intent of the Holy Spirit here.

First, this person who answered John did not tell John how this large group suddenly got from earth to heaven. Rather, he told John how each one of this group got added to the group: by washing their robes in the blood of Jesus. In other word, they joined this group by being born again.  Then we must consider Jesus' words.

John 16:33  These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

I believe what God is telling us in this passage is that this "GT" is the added tribulation of billions of people who left a world of tribulation to become a born again child of God. In other words, God considers life on earth as a sinner as a life of tribulation. But combining each persons tribulation billions of times, it adds up to great tribulation.

I believe this large group is the just raptured church - raptured just before the 6th seal.