Pre trib rapture is fake

[SINNERSAVED]

3 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

Two different Gods?  Two different Bibles?  No, I assure you that I, and other PreTribbers worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and we read the one true Bible.  It's kind of unfair to infer PreTribbers are worshipping another God.  That's a terrible thing to say. 

if you want to classify your self with a group that believes in what you believe, is  what I would say is wrong, ?

 you separate  and divide,  from a stand point of view, I said, that there is a difference, of believing the word of God and not believing the word of God,  so a disagreement is not , about who is wrong and who is right ?

 in fact, I am warning all people , if you believe or not , pre trib, mid , or post trib, we are all in the same boat, ? it is the warnings

 we are given  from God in the bible, it tells us about the watchman, it tells us about being alert, and watching, it tells us to them that endure  until the end , do you know what this means ? it is serious, and it claims, that many will not endure until the end !! and why is that, for they were not prepared for people told them not to prepare  for there will be no tribulation to deal with ???? do you see, it, ?

 sister, I have no , agenda, and I don't have no gain in what I say , it is all about God and only about God, it is not about my feelings or your feelings or, anything else, that people have a hard time, to hear ,listen or to understand , we have come to a place, in this life, and if someone hurts some ones feelings, that will take, importance over the message , it is not good, at all, we have become, laxed in our thinking and actions, and that is a fact ,

the more we learn and see what is going on the more I see a disconnect, and that is amazing ? I never ever thought I would see this, and how people act today  as if , life just goes on, and not a care in the world , but I can say that, I have tried and I will continue to try to bring scripture and  Gods word to the table, for it is what we are , to do , in our service, to God , that we be living sacrifices  for Him for we are not of our selves,   we have been bought with a high price , and we are now bond servants to our God the most high , and we are to do what is His will and not continue to live our lives for our selves, for we must deny the self , and pick up our cross, and this means,

 we follow as the shepherd has done,  and picking up our cross, does not mean what many take lightly ? would you agree ?

thank you and blessings

[Esther4:14]

12 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Especially from SinnerSaved. I have asked him on several occasions if he believes that Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and the Bible doctrine of the triune Godhead is true.  He has yet to give a clear, unequivocal answer, which means that he probably worships another God.  So let's hear it from SS. Let's get this matter clarified so everyone knows where you stand, SS.

Lol, like it would be ridiculous no matter who said it, but especially when SS says it right?  Is that really necessary or relevant to the conversation for someone such as yourself to say.  Tell me Ezra, if you believe in the Holy Spirit, why don't you show more fruit?  I'm confused.  I just don't believe you can bully me into thinking you have more understanding, or that you have made a very convincing case that I should agree with your assessment of SS solely based on your consistent sour attitude.  If you would like to be more persuasive, try being more compassionate.  

This is always what I loved about the prophets.  I love literature and the prophets are some of my favorite writers.  Their writing are beautiful, strong, sensitive, poetic.  They can say the strongest rebuke in the most beautiful way.  They are just effervescent and enchanting.  I imagine how close they were to Him, and what the strongest word they are given to share with the people meant to them personally.  Jeremiah shares his lamentation over the strong words He was given without shame.  They break his heart.  He doesn't just carelessly say, "well God told me to and they deserved it.  I did nothing wrong," in arrogance.  

I spend much time reading prophets.  I do not often, if ever, find the common defense for saying things with such callousness like you are doing as though you were doing someone a favor with your "strong words".  I do not believe I have ever seen such responses like this ever reflect the beauty or the power of comparable messages of rebuke found in scripture.  

"Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." (James 3:1).  

And... SS made a valid point earlier in regard to the position those who ascribe to pretrib rapture theory will be in if you are wrong.  Have you considered how this will affect your faith if you are wrong?  

[MorningGlory]

30 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

if you want to classify your self with a group that believes in what you believe, is  what I would say is wrong, ?

 you separate  and divide,  from a stand point of view, I said, that there is a difference, of believing the word of God and not believing the word of God,  so a disagreement is not , about who is wrong and who is right ?

 in fact, I am warning all people , if you believe or not , pre trib, mid , or post trib, we are all in the same boat, ? it is the warnings

 we are given  from God in the bible, it tells us about the watchman, it tells us about being alert, and watching, it tells us to them that endure  until the end , do you know what this means ? it is serious, and it claims, that many will not endure until the end !! and why is that, for they were not prepared for people told them not to prepare  for there will be no tribulation to deal with ???? do you see, it, ?

 sister, I have no , agenda, and I don't have no gain in what I say , it is all about God and only about God, it is not about my feelings or your feelings or, anything else, that people have a hard time, to hear ,listen or to understand , we have come to a place, in this life, and if someone hurts some ones feelings, that will take, importance over the message , it is not good, at all, we have become, laxed in our thinking and actions, and that is a fact ,

the more we learn and see what is going on the more I see a disconnect, and that is amazing ? I never ever thought I would see this, and how people act today  as if , life just goes on, and not a care in the world , but I can say that, I have tried and I will continue to try to bring scripture and  Gods word to the table, for it is what we are , to do , in our service, to God , that we be living sacrifices  for Him for we are not of our selves,   we have been bought with a high price , and we are now bond servants to our God the most high , and we are to do what is His will and not continue to live our lives for our selves, for we must deny the self , and pick up our cross, and this means,

 we follow as the shepherd has done,  and picking up our cross, does not mean what many take lightly ? would you agree ?

thank you and blessings

Yes, I understand what you are saying but PreTribbers' beliefs don't affect you or anyone else who disagrees with those views.  Salvation doesn't rest on one's Rapture view and criticizing other believers' beliefs won't change anyone or anything.  PreTrib is what makes sense to us and the attempts to change minds will seldom, if ever, work.  It certainly doesn't warrant thread after thread on the subject.

[Esther4:14]

3 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

Yes, I understand what you are saying but PreTribbers' beliefs don't affect you or anyone else who disagrees with those views.  Salvation doesn't rest on one's Rapture view and criticizing other believers' beliefs won't change anyone or anything.  PreTrib is what makes sense to us and the attempts to change minds will seldom, if ever, work.  It certainly doesn't warrant thread after thread on the subject.

Right it might not be a salvation issue, but it could make perseverance difficult and it could be beneficial to prepare your Spirit in the event there is no rapture by reading through the Bible again to clarify and confirm opinions that you have formed and decided are right.  I do think your response does reflect a very careless study of scripture.  It is as if you don't really think you need to study scripture.  If there is a tribulation coming, you might wish you had invested more time in your own scriptural study so that everything doesn't become confusing and you are left searching for a opinion to depend on the way you had before because the Bible is a long book.  It is not something you can start reading during an earthquake and expect to finish.  

I am concerned that your opinions often reflect popular opinion rather than a personal pursuit of understanding of His word.  The rapture is not a safety net and an excuse to be careless in our study is it? 

[SINNERSAVED]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

Especially from SinnerSaved. I have asked him on several occasions if he believes that Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and the Bible doctrine of the triune Godhead is true.  He has yet to give a clear, unequivocal answer, which means that he probably worships another God.  So let's hear it from SS. Let's get this matter clarified so everyone knows where you stand, SS.

okay Ezra, I see you have a problem that I have brought the truth which you are not able to handle, and so you are now calling me out to see if I need to resite what you think I don't know, or to see if I am a imposter, to the faith , that is so funny and , really , that was not nice, at all my brother.?

 I asked you with our differences would you call me a brother  in the lord, you fail to answer, I told you ,if you consider your self a teacher of the word, you tell me none of my business, but you ask me in open, if I know God , or follow anything you believe is the word of God, ?

 my answer is No,? and you say I knew it, ...for what I have said, and taught of the love of God ,and of the scriptures, is not what you believe, and my God, is a awesome God, and I call Him yahuwa ? and Yahweh ? my savior, and son of God Jesus I call Yahushua ,

 I am not jewish , Hebrew, or a jw that you told everyone I was,  shame on you ? I am sinnersaved, and that should speak for it self,?

 I am not here to deal with anything of disagreements or , peoples power to try to prove them selves above others,  I am a sinner saved by grace, and I like it that way , and in the bible, My God tells me to be humble myself, love one another, and to correct any that has taken the lords, name in vain,

to correct the error of another, and put to a open shame, so that the glory of the Lord our God, is glorified in all that we do and what we say , I have , seen , the love of God in many ways, and it is beautiful  and captivating,

I have seen the worst of the worst, and I have seen evil destroyed , by grace,  I am able to listen to you and see that you are not confident in the religion you hold ,and for that you must, try to hate and ridicue another when someone ids not agreeing in your belief ,

 I  do not hold any hate or contempt, for you , I can only feel sorry for you , that the words of God and scripture be held high, in holiness and handled with care , and you toss it around, as if it holds no power, but to your self, and your ideas,

I will not further your , questions as they are to try to make me look bad, but yet, your words have clearly shown what you are doing, and what is your motive,  so , I will not answer any more of your questions, for the preaching of the cross according to the bible I read is for those ,that have a ear to hear what the spirit says ,to the salvation of souls , and for those that reject and are not discerned with the righteousness of god, it is the judgment of their own souls ,

by there own words, we cannot ever know who is  going to be saved or not, but God knows, and He judges all, for every word and thought , will be accounted for ,  and so we must make every effort to be in the graces of God, for He alone, teaches us, right from wrong, and so there is nothing different under the sun,  we all need Jesus , and we need to be vigilant , and humble , and not proud.

 peace...

[enoob57]

12 minutes ago, Esther4:14 said:

Right it might not be a salvation issue, but it could make perseverance difficult and it could be beneficial to prepare your Spirit in the event there is no rapture by reading through the Bible again to clarify and confirm opinions that you have formed and decided are right.  I do think your response does reflect a very careless study of scripture.  It is as if you don't really think you need to study scripture.  If there is a tribulation coming, you might wish you had invested more time in your own scriptural study so that everything doesn't become confusing and you are left searching for a opinion to depend on the way you had before because the Bible is a long book.  It is not something you can start reading during an earthquake and expect to finish.  

I am concerned that your opinions often reflect popular opinion rather than a personal pursuit of understanding of His word.  The rapture is not a safety net and an excuse to be careless in our study is it? 

I would say it makes a great deal of difference if one rightly frames the issue:
Sure we are to suffer here by the hands of the ungodly like as Christ

Jn 15:20-25

20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.

23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
KJV

but it is an entirely different matter when God pours His Wrath upon the ungodly (and?) His own children... in part a violation of promise given us by God
 

1 Th 1:10

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
KJV

From the first vrs. above not the ungodly wrath against us > then it must be His Wrath which in total is Hell and the great tribulation.
After all what do we have now that God would want to pour His wrath out upon

Ro 8:1

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
KJV
Love, Steven

 

[7Dove77]

2 Corinthians 1;24)-Not for that  we have dominion over our Faith,but are helpers of your joy for by Faith we stand..Amen

 

Blessings,7Dove77

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, Esther4:14 said:

Right it might not be a salvation issue, but it could make perseverance difficult and it could be beneficial to prepare your Spirit in the event there is no rapture by reading through the Bible again to clarify and confirm opinions that you have formed and decided are right.  I do think your response does reflect a very careless study of scripture.  It is as if you don't really think you need to study scripture.  If there is a tribulation coming, you might wish you had invested more time in your own scriptural study so that everything doesn't become confusing and you are left searching for a opinion to depend on the way you had before because the Bible is a long book.  It is not something you can start reading during an earthquake and expect to finish.  

I am concerned that your opinions often reflect popular opinion rather than a personal pursuit of understanding of His word.  The rapture is not a safety net and an excuse to be careless in our study is it? 

Thanks for the concern but, really, I don't see a thorough study of Scripture in anything you have posted either. Do you feel you are qualified to judge another's understanding of the Bible?  Pretribbers realize that NO ONE really knows the timing of the Rapture and with that we know that we could be wrong.  Nothing anyone says will change viewpoints on the matter.  I would suggest that you need to read your Bible more and come to understand what is evident to others and the ability of others to come to their own conclusions.  And that ISN'T a popular opinion. 

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, MorningGlory said:

Pretribbers realize that NO ONE really knows the timing of the Rapture...

Hence the use of the term IMMINENT. Even the apostolic churches believed that Christ could come for His saints right then. And that corresponds to what the Lord had said. It will be sudden, unexpected, and swift, "for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of Man cometh". It will be the Bridegroom coming for His Bride, not the Judge coming for His enemies.  

Following that there will be the Tribulation period, and then the Second Coming of Christ with His saints will be something that can be expected by the inhabitants of the earth.  When Christ comes at that time "every eye shall see Him".

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and theyalso which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 14,15).

[Sister]

I think it is a salvation issue.

  Luke 11:9   And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

  Luke 11:10   For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

 Luke 11:11   If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

  Luke 11:12   Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

  Luke 11:13   If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

 

Only the holy spirit can reveal the truth, the truth doesn't come through any other way.  If the truth is not given then it is a salvation issue in my opinion.  God does not give us lies instead of truth, if he does, then there is something wrong within our spirit and we have to go back to the drawing board.  Read Luke 11:9 a hundred times until it sinks in.  The drawing board is the scriptures, seek the scriptures, not opinions.

And when we humble ourselves before him and can admit to others that we have been corrected because of the LOVE OF THE TRUTH, then grace will be given.  Only if we love TRUTH.