Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?

[Marcus O'Reillius]

4 hours ago, eileenhat said:

Are you up for this new region of vocalization/sharing Marcus?

Oh, I'm all up for it.  
It's just like the Church of the Latter Day Saints, you know: the Mormons.

So still no Scripture reference; perhaps you will enlighten me on all the Ways of God then, hmm? 

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, eileenhat said:

Please give a scripture that uses the word 'rapture"?

King James Bible (1 Thessalonians 4:17)
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι, ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα [harpagesometha] ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ Κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτω πάντοτε σὺν Κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα.

Strong's Concordance

harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away

Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad'-zo)
Short Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery
Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.

That word harpazo is rapiemur in Latin, from which the word "rapture" is derived.

Deinde nos, qui vivimus, qui relinquimur, simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Christo in aera, et sic semper cum Domino erimus.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

1 hour ago, eileenhat said:

One verse about a rapture? no.  No such verse.

Ezra did a fine job showing how the Greek word, harpazo, in 1Th 4:17, transliterated to rapio in the Latin, and it from centuries of the RCC's teaching from the Latin that we get the word: rapture.

Once one has a rudimentary knowledge of the variances of language, any such false notion that "Rapture" is not in the Bible, should melt away.

[brakelite]

25 minutes ago, Ezra said:

It is IMPOSSIBLE that the Rapture and the Second Coming are "just one event".  In fact you will not find a single Scripture to support that bizarre interpretation.

1 Thess. 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The above passage refers to none other event than the second coming. Two distinct things occur at this time. One, Jesus calls forth the dead of all ages whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life and they en-masse rise from their graves in the first of two major resurrections pertaining to the last days. At the same time, they which are yet alive are changed, as we read in

1 Corinthians 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed....

These two scriptures are describing the same event...the Lord returning to take His bride home. Any other rapture prior to this event is a misreading and misunderstanding of scripture.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

When someone says, 'it's the same event', and another person says, 'it's impossible for it to be the same event' ~ we could have a misunderstanding of terms: i.e.: What is an event?

Now I will say that the parousia of Christ Jesus and the Rapture happen on the same day; they are linked in prophecy.  
Most notably, we can find this in the Olivet Discourse of Mt 24:29-31, and again in 2Th 2:1.
Some would call this happening on the same day as one "event".

Now as a day progresses for each of us, we do different things.
I think that nothing less happens on the Day of the Lord; there are many things going on that Day.
In this manner, each thing is an event; and as such, it is impossible for two different things to be the same event.

So each is right in their own manner of speaking.

As an addition, here is some of the events I have been able to order through the sequence they are given in linear prophetic narratives.

• Sun/moon/star event Day of the LORD
  • Scrolling of the sky = sign of the Son of Man

  • Jesus touches down on Mount Zion
    • Jews flee through the cleft of the Mount of Olives

    • Mustering the 144,000 assembled on Mount Zion

    • 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked

  • Jesus resurrects the Saints / Last Trumpet
    • Dead in Christ

    • Martyr's deeds will be remembered (Two Witnesses left behind)

  • Deliverance = Harvest Redemption / Gathering Elect from the clouds
    • Those who are alive and are left

  • Great Multitude arrives in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation

  • Books / Scroll opened with breaking of seventh Seal

  • First Trumpet fire and blood – 1/3rd of earth burned
    • Avenging Angels – supplying Blood and managing the Fire

 

 

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, brakelite said:

The above passage refers to none other event than the second coming.

It is never a good idea to persist in misinterpretation.  Here's a glimpse of the Second Coming.

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)

Is there any mourning and wailing in 1 Thess 4 at the Rapture? Or is it the exact OPPOSITE? Figure it out.

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 14,15).

Is there execution of judgment on the ungodly, or is their deliverance for the saints at the Rapture? Figure it out.

[Retrobyter]

19 hours ago, Ezra said:

How could the Rapture be a "theory" that appeared only "a short time ago", which Christ Himself told His apostles that there would be a Rapture? (John 14:1-3)

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Now compare this with 1 Thess 4 and see that the Rapture was prophesied even before the Resurrection of Christ.

Shalom, Ezra.

Have you ever considered the fact that He never said in this passage that He was taking us TO that place He's going to prepare for us? That's been a VERY COMMON ASSUMPTION among those who believe in the pretrib rapture theory. However, He only said that He would receive them (and us) UNTO HIMSELF, so that they (and we) could remain together! However, at that point in time, He's JUST COME BACK! (And, He'll be in a hurry.) Why would He make the trip back? No, we are told in Revelation 21:1-2 that the New Jerusalem, His Father's "House," will be COMING HERE! Now, do your comparisons.

[Ezra]

6 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Have you ever considered the fact that He never said in this passage that He was taking us TO that place He's going to prepare for us?

Retro,

How can you say that when the words of Christ are as plain as can be?  Please note:

In my Father's house = Heaven

I go to prepare a place for you = Christ in Heaven at present

I will come again, and receive you unto myself = Rapture

that where I am, there ye may be also = taking us TO that place

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 1:01 PM, eileenhat said:

I am charging that the Bible does not describe a rapture event occurring.

That 'gathered together' refers to the Church of Philadelphia (which to explain is referencing to the USA, which was founded, in Philadelphia*).

 

* In 1682, William Penn founded the city to serve as capital of the Pennsylvania Colony.^[11] Philadelphia played an instrumental role in the American Revolution as a meeting place for the Founding Fathers of the United States, who signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776 and the Constitution in 1787. Philadelphia was one of the nation's capitals in the Revolutionary War, and served as temporary U.S. capital while Washington, D.C., was under construction. ...source wikipedia

 

The next question is how come the USA is being called a 'church'?

Yes indeed.  A Church would mean that everyone who represents the USA (so the white population, 2nd/3rd generation immigrants who view themselves as American citizens and not foreigners....to simply who I am referencing here) is a born again (or God led) Christian.

Yes,....now for the last reveal.

How could over 188 million USA adults (again, fudge the numbers to reflect white population only....so could be more if people have switched culture to American versus homeland ideals) become such....'in the blink of an eye'?

See Revelations 20 (in it's entirety)....that is exactly what it says will happen (though yes, I'm alone in declaring that now)...as far as I can ascertain.

***That 'gathered together' refers to the Church of Philadelphia (which to explain is referencing to the USA, which was founded, in Philadelphia*).***

 

NO this is not the USA, this is the global church of end times, the church of brotherly love existing alongside the Laodicean church, the lukewarm church that insists on living the lies of the prosperity gospel charismatics.

 

**The next question is how come the USA is being called a 'church'?**

 

The USA is not being called a church. This is a global spiritual entity, not a country. And your attitude is pretty racist, as if people of color cant be part of God's church

***

How could over 188 million USA adults (again, fudge the numbers to reflect white population only....so could be more if people have switched culture to American versus homeland ideals) become such....'in the blink of an eye'?

See Revelations 20 (in it's entirety)....that is exactly what it says will happen (though yes, I'm alone in declaring that now)...as far as I can ascertain.***

 

The USA will be pretty much out of the picture in revelation times, having been judged by Christ for her apostasy.

The Rapture is what it is, a catching away, a literal catching away of the GLOBAL church of believers. God btw doesn't care what you look like on the outside so I think that in an attitude you need to change right now. The church of believers was never meant to be dragged through the mud yet again with the coming of the antichrist. We will be taken out of the way before s/he shows.

2 Thessalonians 2:7   For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

This speaks of the Holy Ghost which is holding back the coming of antichrist until the church is taken out of the way.

 

1 Thess 4:15   For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

4:16   For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

4:17   Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is Paul's comforting the Thessalonian church telling them that we should not worry about the evil to come because we will be taken out of that evil.

Rev 3:10   Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come * upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

We shall be kept out of the Tribulation hour. "Keep thee from" in Greek, the word here used is 'ek' which in its proper context is to be taken out of this earth, not preserved through it.

You see this also in

Revelation 7:14   And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The Rapture is real, it5 hasn't happened yet, and Jesus Christ will welcome all believers regardless of color or what culture they are part of or religion they formerly belonged to.

 

 

 

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 6:44 PM, eileenhat said:

God provides proof, not men, for anything written in our testament of his works (and glory and more), what we call simply call 'his word' (ie. Bible).

He provides 'proof' to me daily.

That I can take to the bank.

Words, from men,....not so much truth there, as they are just wishes and ideas.

You may feel you have it figured out, as men have before, but that doesn't matter (what we think).

As I have had to learn, as well.

God is a tough task master.

So, proof as been dive bombing me for over three months.  Signs, symbols, visions, first hand experiences etc..

It just never let's up now.

A spiritual battle was won by our Lord and savior over Halloween (though not witnessed by the general population)..

Let's rejoice (I am...anyway).

The best 'proof' will be 'change'.

As foretold (forewarned).

The vision I had about our future now didn't show much happiness about this so referenced 'change'.

Who is the first to admit, they had gotten use to be 'first' in class, rather than 'last'?

Which is hard to explain.  So....I might just lay it all out...or wait until this change manifests and Christians begin to actually understand, what is afoot now.

The majesty of God rules (per fulfillment of Rev. 20, as in all of it...I am testifying to here today).

What a merry ride we will all have indeed, with his direct interaction with us, at hand at last.

So what proof?

Laugh.

You should be asking God instead, what can I do for you now? instead....as he doesn't like to be kept waiting (who does)

Test the spirit to see if they are God or of God. If the spirit denies that Jesus is Lord come in the flesh for sinful men then you are listening to a false spirit.

And I can tell you, you are listening to a false spirit because whatever you are listening to doesnt know the bible from a hole in the wall.