Pre-Tribulation Proofs

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3 minutes ago, inchrist said:

But that is what blasphemy of the holy Spirit is.....refusing to repent....refusing the ministry of redemption.

So when you state....

Word of God that all who receive the mark of the beast will not be forgiven

.....is based on a continual refusal of accepting redemption work of the holy spirit the very definition of blasphemy of the holyspirit, and not based purely on accepting a mark.

 

No i do not believe that is what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is...  In the Gospels the scribes who came from Jerusalem witnessed Jesus performing miracles / signs and declared that Jesus was doing them by the power of the king of the demons.. Now Jesus was doing His miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit .. So the scribes had declared that the Holy Spirit that was with Jesus was a demon.. And in doing so they blasphemed the Holy Spirit..   This is scriptural just read about the incident..

People can on first being convicted of sin resist the conviction of the Holy Spirit and refuse to accept Jesus as LORD.. But later on in life though life experiances and the continued work of the Holy Spirit upon their consciences come to repent and believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He secured for their salvation...  So people can refuse the ministry of redemption but before they die reconsider and be saved..  We have all heard of death bed conversions and we believe that such a person will be saved even if they resisted the conviction of the Holy Spirit for decades before..

[inchrist]

Just now, Adstar said:

No i do not believe that is what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is...  In the Gospels the scribes who came from Jerusalem witnessed Jesus performing miracles / signs and declared that Jesus was doing them by the power of the king of the demons.. Now Jesus was doing His miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit .. So the scribes had declared that the Holy Spirit that was with Jesus was a demon.. And in doing so they blasphemed the Holy Spirit..   This is scriptural just read about the incident..

..

Christ only started performing his miracles and ministry after his baptism correct? Through and only through the holy spirit correct?

 The Pharisees - knew that Christ miracles validated His words and ministry John 11:45-48

So the Pharisees were attempting to discredit Christ  messiahship by saying His works were by the devil and not by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, when the Pharisees accused Christ of casting out demons by the power of Satan, they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit by whom Christ performed His miracles through and only through the Holy Spirit. 

What was Christ's Messiahship? What was the point of miracles?

Christ Messiahship and miracles is the very heart of the redemptive work of God in Christ.

The nature of Christ ministry is redemption.

The Pharisees were striking at the core of God's ordained plan - redemption.

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5 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I'm talking about believers who are deceived into going along with the mark and image.  The plagues are God's judgment against that sin for the purpose of conviction and repentance.  Eventually it will get to the point where no one repents, but that is near the end of the plagues.

True Believers will not be given over to delusions because they have embraced the love of the truth and will be guarded from deception by the leading of the Holy Spirit..  The Holy Bible declares that the satanic deception will not be able to decieve the very elect..  Please read the following declaration by Jesus:: I have bolded the critical words..

Matthew 24: KJV

23 "Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. {24} For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

 

If it where possible means it is Impossible to deceive the very elect..  The reason why is that The Holy Spirit will cause the very elect to know the anti-christ is not the promised Christ...  Yes i believe the nature of the great deception will be the Anti-christ putting himself forward as the promised Messiah for the Jews and for the false christians the promised second coming of the LORD..  But he will only succeed in this deception with those who God has given over to delusion and deception.. It is a form of punishment / earthy judgement upon those who reject the Love of the truth..

Just as in the times of Pharaoh when Pharaoh was also given over to strong delusions so as to bring forth all the plagues upon the people of Egypt to repay them for all the persecution they had brought upon the Hebrews they had enslaved..

[inchrist]

17 minutes ago, Adstar said:

People can on first being convicted of sin resist the conviction of the Holy Spirit and refuse to accept Jesus as LORD.. But later on in life though life experiances and the continued work of the Holy Spirit upon their consciences come to repent and believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He secured for their salvation...  So people can refuse the ministry of redemption but before they die reconsider and be saved..  We have all heard of death bed conversions and we believe that such a person will be saved even if they resisted the conviction of the Holy Spirit for decades before..

Correct they are therefore not in a continual rejection of the Holy spirit, therefore they can be saved.

However the Pharisees who accused Christ of working with satan, were in a continual rejection and remained in a continual rejection of the Holy spirit

[enoob57]

3 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Christ only started performing his miracles and ministry after his baptism correct? 

The first recorded miracle was water into wine... but it is noteworthy that Mary came to Jesus about the problem of no wine. It certainly suggests that Mary knew Jesus could fix the problem... 

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4 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Christ only started performing his miracles and ministry after his baptism correct? Through and only through the holy spirit correct?

 The Pharisees - knew that Christ miracles validated His words and ministry John 11:45-48

So the Pharisees were attempting to discredit Christ  messiahship by saying His works were by the devil and not by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, when the Pharisees accused Christ of casting out demons by the power of Satan, they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit by whom Christ performed His miracles through and only through the Holy Spirit. 

What was Christ's Messiahship? What was the point of miracles?

Christ Messiahship and miracles is the very heart of the redemptive work of God in Christ.

The nature of Christ ministry is redemption.

The Pharisees were striking at the core of God's ordained plan - redemption.

 

John 11: KJV

45 "Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him. {46} But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done. {47} ¶ Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. {48} If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation."

The above verses do not declare that the chief priests and the Pharisees believed that the miracles of Jesus where from God.. It records them only as seeing those signs as a danger because they believed it would lead to an intervention by Rome that would see the Jews destroyed...  Yes many of the Jews believed on Jesus but the religious elites did not believe on Him because they did not believe His miracles where from God.. 

 

 

[inchrist]

8 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

The first recorded miracle was water into wine... but it is noteworthy that Mary came to Jesus about the problem of no wine. It certainly suggests that Mary knew Jesus could fix the problem... 

Yet assuming Mary had full scope Christ could turn water into wine?

You're assuming what is not in scripture

[inchrist]

4 minutes ago, Adstar said:

 

John 11: KJV

45 "Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him. {46} But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done. {47} ¶ Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. {48} If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation."

The above verses do not declare that the chief priests and the Pharisees believed that the miracles of Jesus where from God..

I didn't say that, I stated

The Pharisees - knew that Christ miracles validated His words and ministry John 11:45-48

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16 minutes ago, inchrist said:

So the Pharisees were attempting to discredit Christ  messiahship by saying His works were by the devil and not by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, when the Pharisees accused Christ of casting out demons by the power of Satan, they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit by whom Christ performed His miracles through and only through the Holy Spirit. 

What was Christ's Messiahship? What was the point of miracles?

Christ Messiahship and miracles is the very heart of the redemptive work of God in Christ.

The nature of Christ ministry is redemption.

The Pharisees were striking at the core of God's ordained plan - redemption.

The Pharisees had no idea what the Way of redemption was... They had no idea that it was by the Atonement of Jesus.. Even the Apostles at the time had no idea..  The Jewish elites feared that Jesus would eventually lead the common Jewish people in a rebellion against Rome and that Rome would respond by destroying Judea and the Jewish nation... 

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Just now, inchrist said:

I didn't say that, I stated

The Pharisees - knew that Christ miracles validated His words and ministry John 11:45-48

The scriptures that i quoted John 11: 45-48 do not confirm your belief that the pharisees knew the miracles validated  Jesus...  They saw them as a problem to be overcome and they attempted to do that by accusing Jesus of doing His miracles by the power of the king of the demons... 

If they had truly believed that Jesus was from God they most certainly would never have conspired to have him executed...   They would have submitted to His leading, they would have embraced Him as their Messiah..