Pre-Tribulation Proofs

[Daniel 11:36]

Post-millennial teaching is incorrect for many reasons including N2s errors on the matter

The Lord will come first for His own in this dispensation .... Adstar is correct

.... and then He will bring wrath and judgment upon an unbelieving world of humans

There will be some who turn to Him during the 70th week decreed for Israel of both Israel and of the Gentiles

Those who do will either be killed or will escape the wiles of Satan's beast

Those killed will be raised at the end of the of the 70th week and those that remain will enter His millennial kingdom as mortals [Revelation 20:4]

.... those on thrones are the pre-tribulation church

Post-millennial teaching is flawed and it should be corrected to fit Biblical truth

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[n2thelight]

13 hours ago, Adstar said:

Again you are incorrect if only those who died in the Lord take part in the rapture then you are declaring the following verse to be a lie..

1 Thessalonians 4: KJV

16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

So when Jesus returns there will be Christians who will still be alive and remaining on earth to witness His second coming..

First,rapture is not in scripture,Pre,Mid or Post.We gather back to Christ at the last trump which is the 7th

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

The next five verses lay the foundation to what is called the "rapture theory". That is all it is, is a theory; and unproven idea. As we study our Father's Word; set aside all preconceived ideas you have about a rapture, and let's see what Paul is trying to tell the Thessalonians.

It is from these verses that the "rapture theory" was born. Let's see just how willing you are to bet your soul on it, when we take a fresh look at what Paul really said. Because that is what you are doing when you rely on it in the last days.

After Paul told the Thessalonians to live right in the community, and search their souls for sin in their lives, they were then to repent of any sin. Paul moved next to what happens when death comes to this flesh body. This topic is important to Paul, for it is the stabilizing factor to the Christian life. It removes the fear that comes from the unknown of ones death. Paul gives this information for one reason, and that is, that we not be ignorant as the heathen are. In other words, Paul doesn't want Christians stupid.

This concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's word, and His promises. The heathen have no hope, for they believe it's over at the burial.

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].

It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. "To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."

This, Paul states, is not his words, but it is from the Word God gave to him. Where? Ecclesiastes 12:7, that is where it is written.

"We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," this is our gathering back to Jesus Christ. "Shall not prevent them", would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them." We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. It is the only logical fact that can come from this. If you do not, or will not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do, and the hope and glory Paul is speaking of, for the Christian, and you are ignorant of God's glory. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father, and not in the ground.

Paul, in another writing, told us exactly; as far as the return of Jesus Christ, when we would be gathered back to Him. That goes also for when we would see those who are asleep [dead], and that exact moment is at the sounding of the seventh [last] trumpet. It will happen very quickly, in the wink [twinkling] of an eye. I Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us we will not go away to any place, but stay right here on earth. We are going to be changed into our new Spiritual bodies, and put off these flesh bodies.

Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian.

To document this, in I Corinthians 15:50 we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit", or face Jesus Christ in His kingdom. Christ's kingdom will cover the entire earth, and that is why the flesh body must perish. The time of this change comes at the seventh trumpet, which is the last trump, and stated in verse 52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".

Those who are even dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body. That is a body that doesn't get sick, or grow old; in other words, it is your spiritual body.

Why?

Because the Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom. This is your "gathering back to Christ", and that is what the rapture meaning is all about. It is the time when Christ comes back to earth and the saints that are alive are changed and drawn to Him.

14 hours ago, Adstar said:

The second mistake was thinking that we will have no bodies.. When the Bible says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven it means carnal flesh and carnal blood bodies that we currently exist in.. It does not mean we will be ghost like spirits.. We shall have New bodies that are not of carnal flesh and carnal blood.. But they will be bodies.. They will be immortal bodies, our current mortal bodies will be transformed into immortal bodies..

Never said that we would just be spirits,as we will have mass,and again it's the state of the soul that matters here,for although ALL shall be changed,all are not immortal,those who were changed without Christ can still die the 2nd death,which is the death of the soul.Scripture says,ALL shall be changed!!!

14 hours ago, Adstar said:

What is this??  You clearly stated in your post that no flesh human beings will be living in the millennium that everybody is going to be turned into spirits.. But in the quote about you state that at the end of the millennium the second testing will be for mortal souls living in the Millennium age..  If everyone is transformed and there are no mortal flesh bodied human being after the rapture then how can there be mortal people living in the millennium ??  You make no sense,, You're preaching confusion..

Again all shall be changed,and yes there will be a time of testing when satan is released,however they are not in flesh bodies,just mortal souls,not immortal as those who believed in Christ.The soul is not immortal,it most put on immortality

I Corinthians 15:54 "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in Victory." "

So your soul must put off the physical body, and this soul but be changed from a state of possible destruction by sin, and put on immortality through the shed blood of Christ before this saying can be true. "Death is swallowed up in Victory", when your sins are blotted out and made as they had never been committed. Then we have eternal life in Jesus Christ. There is still death until after the Millennium age.

ALL flesh shall die,or be changed ,change does not mean immortality

There will be no death or birth during the millennium 

 

[n2thelight]

Ephesians 6:13 "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God that ye may be able to with stand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

What day is the above?

[Daniel 11:36]

"First,rapture is not in scripture,Pre,Mid or Post.We gather back to Christ at the last trump which is the 7th"

 

You are wrong at the get go .... the rapture is in scripture [harpazo] and the 7th trumpet is the last of the 7 judgment trumpets

This 7th judgment trumpet is not for the rapture

On and on you go attempting to eliminate the pre-tribulation event, but you fail every time

 

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[n2thelight]

36 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"First,rapture is not in scripture,Pre,Mid or Post.We gather back to Christ at the last trump which is the 7th"

 

You are wrong at the get go .... the rapture is in scripture [harpazo] and the 7th trumpet is the last of the 7 judgment trumpets

This 7th judgment trumpet is not for the rapture

On and on you go attempting to eliminate the pre-tribulation event, but you fail every time

 

 

Answer the question

 

42 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Ephesians 6:13 "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God that ye may be able to with stand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

What day is the above?

Then we can go 

[n2thelight]

4 hours ago, n2thelight said:

On and on you go attempting to eliminate the pre-tribulation event, but you fail every time

Yet Christ Himself says He returns AFTER the trib,go figure, who's failing!!!

[Adstar]

7 hours ago, n2thelight said:

First,rapture is not in scripture,Pre,Mid or Post.We gather back to Christ at the last trump which is the 7th

 

The rapture is an Anglicized version of a Latin word for ""caught up"

The term caught up is in the Bible..

1 Thessalonians 4: KJV

16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

So the rapture is describing the event stated in the above verse when those Christians who are alive and on earth on the day of the second coming of the LORD Jesus Christ who will be caught up ( raptured ) into the clouds to meet Jesus as He returns to earth..

So the rapture is indeed Biblical..

Quote

We gather back to Christ at the last trump which is the 7th

Yes and that gathering will be experienced by the living Saints on earth as their being caught up / raptured..

Edited May 9, 2018 by Adstar

[n2thelight]

37 minutes ago, Adstar said:

The rapture is an Anglicized version of a Latin word for ""caught up"

The term caught up is in the Bible..

1 Thessalonians 4: KJV

16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

So the rapture is describing the event stated in the above verse when those Christians who are alive and on earth on the day of the second coming of the LORD Jesus Christ who will be caught up ( raptured ) into the clouds to meet Jesus as He returns to earth..

So the rapture is indeed Biblical..

Yes and that gathering will be experienced by the living Saints on earth as their being caught up / raptured..

All good you can have that word,I prefer how Paul says it,we gather to Christ

So the question becomes,when?

[Adstar]

2 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

All good you can have that word,I prefer how Paul says it,we gather to Christ

So the question becomes,when?

I believe it will happen on the Day of the LORD.. which is the day the LORD Jesus Christ returns to earth..

And that will happen upon the sounding of the last trumpet which i believe is the 7th trumpet blast sounded in the Book of Revelation..

[Daniel 11:36]

"Ephesians 6:13 "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God that ye may be able to with stand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

 

This is in reference to the evil day in this dispensation before the coming tribulation period

So your scripture picking is again wrong