Pre trib rapture is fake

[Prayerful Flower]

sorry I hit the wrong button b blessed always

 

[WilliamL]

15 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

16 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

So who would be the judge of who's right and who's wrong?  There's no mortal who has that knowledge.  Only God knows for sure.

The bible is so open to interpretation that anyone can really see anything they want there, but this is fine, because it means its not the clever people who find the truth but the honest people. Those willing to accept the bible wording at face value without taking the second best meaning, or their peers meaning, or the traditional meaning, or the popular meaning. 

Dan. 12:9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. !0 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand."

About sums it up. The implication is that the wise shall understand these things after they have been refined by fire.

For some, that will come during the Tribulation; for others, if they so choose, that refinement may precede the Trib, in order that they might help others through it. Moses, in his day, was one such example of the latter case.

[Serving]

On Wednesday, 16 March 2016 at 2:01 AM, bopeep1909 said:

It does

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

1 Corinthians 15:50-54

Err .. not sure if you realise, but those two examples support a POST trib rapture.

When 1 Thess says Jesus will bring those who are ASLEEP (dead) WITH Him, just read the very next verse and you will see WHEN He "brings them with Him" ..  and seeing that those DEAD are RAISED when He APPEARS .. then obviously THAT is WHEN He "brings them" .. which is beyond doubt, only AFTER He APPEARS .. and THAT sister, is AFTER the tribulation.

So the real question that the pre-trib doctrine misunderstands is this, what does He mean by "bring with Him" ..

Bring from WHERE?

The GRAVE .. just as v16 reveals.

And Brings THEM to where?

To the KINGDOM He is ABOUT to ESTABLISH .. the restored kingdom of Israel who the SPIRIT saints He just RAISED form the GRAVE and those still alive who He just CHANGED in the TWINKLING of an eye which ONLY happened WHEN He APPEARED (2nd coming) as declared, which kingdom, together, they will RULE over as Kings & Priests just as Christ PROMISED.

So it does not mean they "came with Him" from heaven because as 1 Thess reveals .. He ONLY just raised them that He is "BRINGING with Him" in verse 16 !!

It was a JESUIT who dreamed this doctrine up after all, and that is a very SERIOUS truth to consider .. VERY telling indeed.

NOW for 1 Corinthians 15:50-54

verses 51-54 support the post-trib gathering without doubt, so the ONLY verse being misunderstood AGAIN is verse 50 itself .. and WHAT does it say?

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Obviously the founders (those working on this erroneous doctrine since that JESUIT dreamed this up) were utterly confused about the flesh side of the kingdom  opposed to the spirit side as to v50's mention of INHERITING the kingdom and HOW it SEEMED to contradict, which thing they THOUGHT wrongly must have meant what they wanted it to mean and missed one SIMPLE little thing, which CONTEXT was this : it was addressed to the BRETHREN and not to the Jews who did not believe IN Christ but will be getting taught of Him during the millennium IN THAT SAME KINGDOM .. so there is a flesh side and a SPIRIT side to the kingdom, just like today for example .. we have a PHYSICAL kingdom of man, and the SPIRIT Kings and side of mans kingdom too (principalities and powers) .. SAME thing going on for the millennial kingdom.

So the key word here, again, is, BRETHREN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .. it was BELIEVERS being ADDRESSED and NOT those pre-Christ flesh Jews from past generations (the good figs only) who will only learn of Christ during the millennium.

Such a simple mistake, easily done too I'm not mocking them, but the key is in LETTING GO of error and not clinging on to it for preference's sake.

Serving.

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, Serving said:

So the real question that the pre-trib doctrine misunderstands is this, what does He mean by "bring with Him" ..

Bring from WHERE?

The GRAVE .. just as v16 reveals.

And Brings THEM to where?

To the KINGDOM He is ABOUT to ESTABLISH .

This is NOT what those passages teach.  When Christians die their souls and spirits go to be with the Lord, but their bodies are placed in their graves, awaiting the resurrection of the just.

"Bring with Him" refers to the souls and spirits being brought to the resurrection of the saints (which is also the Rapture), so that body, soul, and spirit are reunited to form a perfect immortal and glorious saint. These saints are BROUGHT BACK TO HEAVEN -- translated, like Enoch was translated to Heaven --  for two reasons (1) the judgment of believers at the Judgment Seat of Christ and then (2) the Marriage of the Lamb where the Bride of Christ (the Church) becomes the Wife of the Lamb. The Kingdom of God is established only after the battle of Armageddon.

[MorningGlory]

32 minutes ago, Ezra said:

This is NOT what those passages teach.  When Christians die their souls and spirits go to be with the Lord, but their bodies are placed in their graves, awaiting the resurrection of the just.

"Bring with Him" refers to the souls and spirits being brought to the resurrection of the saints (which is also the Rapture), so that body, soul, and spirit are reunited to form a perfect immortal and glorious saint. These saints are BROUGHT BACK TO HEAVEN -- translated, like Enoch was translated to Heaven --  for two reasons (1) the judgment of believers at the Judgment Seat of Christ and then (2) the Marriage of the Lamb where the Bride of Christ (the Church) becomes the Wife of the Lamb. The Kingdom of God is established only after the battle of Armageddon.

Amen.

[MorningGlory]

15 hours ago, Prayerful Flower said:

sorry I hit the wrong button b blessed always

 

[ENOCH2010]

5 hours ago, Ezra said:

This is NOT what those passages teach.  When Christians die their souls and spirits go to be with the Lord, but their bodies are placed in their graves, awaiting the resurrection of the just.

"Bring with Him" refers to the souls and spirits being brought to the resurrection of the saints (which is also the Rapture), so that body, soul, and spirit are reunited to form a perfect immortal and glorious saint. These saints are BROUGHT BACK TO HEAVEN -- translated, like Enoch was translated to Heaven --  for two reasons (1) the judgment of believers at the Judgment Seat of Christ and then (2) the Marriage of the Lamb where the Bride of Christ (the Church) becomes the Wife of the Lamb. The Kingdom of God is established only after the battle of Armageddon.

You got it right Ezra, until you brought them back to heaven. Rev. 20 has the Lord coming, the dead in Christ rising to meet Him in the air on their way to Jerusalem

[spiderman1917]

If there is a Rapture it'll probably be a tiny amount of people like we see with Elijah or Enoch.

[Ezra]

3 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

You got it right Ezra, until you brought them back to heaven. Rev. 20 has the Lord coming, the dead in Christ rising to meet Him in the air on their way to Jerusalem

Well since Revelation 19 speaks of the Marriage of the Lamb and well as the battle of Armageddon, that would not really be the case. In order for the Bride to become the Wife of the Lamb, all the saints within the Church must be present in Heaven prior to that, so one needs to look at Revelation 7 to see that. Revelation 20 refers to the Tribulation saints who were beheaded by the Beast for refusing to worship his image or take his mark, and are then resurrected to join all the other saints.

[Guest Thallasa]

17 hours ago, Serving said:

Err .. not sure if you realise, but those two examples support a POST trib rapture.

When 1 Thess says Jesus will bring those who are ASLEEP (dead) WITH Him, just read the very next verse and you will see WHEN He "brings them with Him" ..  and seeing that those DEAD are RAISED when He APPEARS .. then obviously THAT is WHEN He "brings them" .. which is beyond doubt, only AFTER He APPEARS .. and THAT sister, is AFTER the tribulation.

So the real question that the pre-trib doctrine misunderstands is this, what does He mean by "bring with Him" ..

Bring from WHERE?

The GRAVE .. just as v16 reveals.

And Brings THEM to where?

To the KINGDOM He is ABOUT to ESTABLISH .. the restored kingdom of Israel who the SPIRIT saints He just RAISED form the GRAVE and those still alive who He just CHANGED in the TWINKLING of an eye which ONLY happened WHEN He APPEARED (2nd coming) as declared, which kingdom, together, they will RULE over as Kings & Priests just as Christ PROMISED.

So it does not mean they "came with Him" from heaven because as 1 Thess reveals .. He ONLY just raised them that He is "BRINGING with Him" in verse 16 !!

It was a JESUIT who dreamed this doctrine up after all, and that is a very SERIOUS truth to consider .. VERY telling indeed.

NOW for 1 Corinthians 15:50-54

verses 51-54 support the post-trib gathering without doubt, so the ONLY verse being misunderstood AGAIN is verse 50 itself .. and WHAT does it say?

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Obviously the founders (those working on this erroneous doctrine since that JESUIT dreamed this up) were utterly confused about the flesh side of the kingdom  opposed to the spirit side as to v50's mention of INHERITING the kingdom and HOW it SEEMED to contradict, which thing they THOUGHT wrongly must have meant what they wanted it to mean and missed one SIMPLE little thing, which CONTEXT was this : it was addressed to the BRETHREN and not to the Jews who did not believe IN Christ but will be getting taught of Him during the millennium IN THAT SAME KINGDOM .. so there is a flesh side and a SPIRIT side to the kingdom, just like today for example .. we have a PHYSICAL kingdom of man, and the SPIRIT Kings and side of mans kingdom too (principalities and powers) .. SAME thing going on for the millennial kingdom.

So the key word here, again, is, BRETHREN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .. it was BELIEVERS being ADDRESSED and NOT those pre-Christ flesh Jews from past generations (the good figs only) who will only learn of Christ during the millennium.

Such a simple mistake, easily done too I'm not mocking them, but the key is in LETTING GO of error and not clinging on to it for preference's sake.

Serving.

What do you mean a JESUIT dreamed it up - if you are going to do, as so many of you protestant evangelicals do, post libelous accusations without any proof, then I want proof ?

Now that we can read so much on the internet ,one sees hundreds of thousands of insane youtubes , and articles, which are obviously the demented figment of the imagination of the  uneducated , so if you are a christian seriously, you will give sound reasons for your accusation . 

Just because an organisation is imperfect, does not mean you can make up lie after lie about it . In other words False Witness, in a public place is a serious sin .