Pre trib rapture is fake

[Omegaman 3.0]

3 hours ago, JG Hemlock said:

 

You might add to your collection there, that the Hebrews in Egypt, were not removed during the plagues, they were preserved through them. Infact, Pharoah's army eventually persued them when they left, a bit like Rev 12!

[Ezra]

38 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

You might add to your collection there, that the Hebrews in Egypt, were not removed during the plagues, they were preserved through them. Infact, Pharoah's army eventually persued them when they left, a bit like Rev 12!

Actually a close inspection of the narrative reveals that the Hebrews were confined to the Land of Goshen "for every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians" (Gen 46:34), and none of those plagues upon Egypt affected them in the least.  Furthermore, the blood of the Passover Lamb preserved them from the deaths of their firstborns.   And Pharoah and his army could not touch them.

So this is similar to Noah who was safe in the Ark with his family, while the rest of the world perish.  That Ark represents Christ, and the Church will be safe in Him while the unbelieving and ungodly are judged.  Lot (who has been referred to as "backslidden" by some, but called righteous in Scripture) and his family were literally dragged out of Sodom, which is another lesson for believers (even though Lot's wife was judged).

What Christians need to clearly understand is that BECAUSE Christ took all the wrath of God against believers upon Himself, "we are not appointed to wrath, but unto salvation".  This is quite distinct from the trials, tribulations and persecutions of the saints down through the ages.

[enoob57]

6 hours ago, Cletus said:

can you prove that by scripture?  and how would you explain revelation 2:10?

From evil to the Godly

Rv 2:10

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
KJV

Jn 15:20
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
KJV

Mt 24:9
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
KJV

From God to the evil

Ro 1:18

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
KJV

Eph 5:6

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
KJV

Col 3:6

6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
KJV

The Tribulation is God's Wrath like no other time ever

Mt 24:21-22

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
KJV

1 Th 1:10

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
KJV

Specific The Great Tribulation is God's Wrath poured out on man
}snip{Q. There are some Bible verses that seem to indicate that we (The Church) will be here during the tribulation or at least the first part of it. It also indicates that we are not appointed to suffer wrath. I always figured that God’s wrath and the tribulation were the same and the rapture would take place before. Some of the prophecy web sites I visit just add to my confusion but can make a good point that wrath and the tribulation are different events. I was wondering if you could shed some light on this for me.}snip{
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/are-gods-wrath-and-the-great-tribulation-the-same/

divisions of thought in Scripture to consider:
-sin has it's own tribulation or suffering which is shown in Scripture
-satan and his demonic forces pour out hatred upon God's people which is shown in Scripture
-God Himself will pour out wrath upon the earth for evil there

[Last Daze]

8 hours ago, JG Hemlock said:

This fib will cause many to become despondent when the rapture does not happen

Your statement above assumes that pretribbers will have the wherewithal to realize that a pretrib rapture didn't happen.   The eschatology of a lot of people I've met only goes as far as "glad I won't be here for all that."  They've been taught the pretrib fallacy and don't see any reason to study further about something that they think is irrelevant.  How will they come to realize that a pretrib rapture didn't happen when they have no idea what to expect?

The body of Christ needs discernment and endurance in these last days.

[Last Daze]

5 hours ago, Ezra said:

Actually a close inspection of the narrative reveals that the Hebrews were confined to the Land of Goshen "for every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians" (Gen 46:34), and none of those plagues upon Egypt affected them in the least.  Furthermore, the blood of the Passover Lamb preserved them from the deaths of their firstborns.   And Pharoah and his army could not touch them.

So this is similar to Noah who was safe in the Ark with his family, while the rest of the world perish.  That Ark represents Christ, and the Church will be safe in Him while the unbelieving and ungodly are judged.  Lot (who has been referred to as "backslidden" by some, but called righteous in Scripture) and his family were literally dragged out of Sodom, which is another lesson for believers (even though Lot's wife was judged).

• But the Lord will make a distinction between the livestock of Israel and the livestock of Egypt, so that nothing will die of all that belongs to the sons of Israel.  Exodus 9:4
• I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. . . . I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word.  John 17:15,20

During the plagues, God made a distinction between those who would be affected and those who wouldn't.  Taking believers out of the world doesn't seem to be the plan.  Making a distinction and keeping us from the evil one, does.

[WilliamL]

6 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

You might add to your collection there, that the Hebrews in Egypt, were not removed during the plagues, they were preserved through them. In fact, Pharoah's army eventually pursued them when they left, a bit like Rev 12!

And even more than "a bit."

1st Seal:  White horse: false christs bent on conquest. "The Serpent [Satan] spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the Woman... [who] fled into the wilderness." Rev. 6:1-2; 12:15, 6; Matt. 24:5

Compare:  Early in the Exodus, the god-Pharaoh and his nobles mobilized a massive army to conquer and re-enslave the Israelites, who fled "out of the land in haste... [into] the wilderness..." Ex. 14:25f.; 12:33; 13:18

2nd Seal:  Red horse: war among nations. "...the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the flood which the Dragon [Satan] had spewed out..." Rev. 6:3-4; 12:16; Matt. 24:6-7a

Compare:  The army of Egypt was destroyed: "The earth swallowed them." Ex. 15:12

This same flight/fleeing in the latter days is the "escape" spoken of by Jesus in Luke 21:36, and also in Daniel 12:1.

Later in the Exodus-era flight, the Israelites came to earthly Mount Sinai, and God told them,

"'Behold, I come to you in the thick cloud... let them be ready.'" Ex. 19:9,11 Those who were ready "went up into the mountain...[even] into the midst of the cloud [to meet with God]..." Ex. 24:15, 18

Compare: Later in the flight of God's people during the End Times, the Church will "come to [heavenly] Mount Zion." (Heb. 12:22) To these gathered-out virgins, the Lord will say,

"'Behold, the Bridegroom comes...' [Soon after,] those who were ready went in with him to the wedding." Matt. 25:6, 10 They will be "caught up... in the clouds to meet the Lord..." 1 Thes. 4:17

These are just a few examples that show how the "types and shadows" of the Lord's Coming/descent to his gathered people during the Exodus directly portray the Lord's Coming/descent to his people during the End Times. For those who have eyes to see these things.

 

[SINNERSAVED]

9 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

• But the Lord will make a distinction between the livestock of Israel and the livestock of Egypt, so that nothing will die of all that belongs to the sons of Israel.  Exodus 9:4
• I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. . . . I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word.  John 17:15,20

During the plagues, God made a distinction between those who would be affected and those who wouldn't.  Taking believers out of the world doesn't seem to be the plan.  Making a distinction and keeping us from the evil one, does.

so would the angels taken lot out of the city  prior to the hell storm be a rapture, would getting into the ark for noah and the family be a rapture, would mosses taking the and walking the people out of Egypt be also like a rapture per se?

 yes we are not of we are spirit filled believers to go through Gods wrath to a unbelieving world, it is so as scripture clearly explains by example of these events, but our God is a just , God, but it does not mean that we get out of here with no tribulation, period, for the tribulation and the evil of satans wrath is not the same we need to separate, and not have  a wishful thinking that we are not going to be here, only a FOOL, and A DECEIVED person, will believe you get out of here before persecution and hardship and death , when Jesus said they hated me they will hate you , they persecuted Him they will do the same,  they crucified Him, a innocent man, for the word of God, you also will and could be and will be killed for your faith in the word , for Jesus

 it is clear, why do people continue to say it will not happen to me, ? the truth is, that if we are not reading and walking in the spirit , then we have not open our eyes, most of us, today , I would guess will not make it out alive prior to the coming of Jesus , and if any does then they are blessed and was not appointed to , for there is a appointed time for one to live and then for that person to die,

the real question you must ask your self, and I have said it over and over, I do not care if you believe rapture, to be today tomorrow,

 or after chaos and tribulation, that DOES NOT MATTER , the truth is are you ready to meet the JESUS, and or to endure suffering until the end of your life, if there be no rapture and you have to go on in life and to endure the evil and wickedness of the world , would you think God does not love you and has abandon you ? many in that day , will curse God for they have been deceived to believe a lie, that they would not suffer and this is the biggest lie of them all, for the millions that died through our the centuries horrific and killed and death was there only way out, they endured until the end , as painful and even to take all the punishment and beatings and being fed to the lions and burned alive,

 they were also believers, and this is the picture that is to be scene, hollywood , is Hollywood, and the left behind, is fiction,

the world has been preached to by hollywoods best, and the books written to show us opposite of what the bible tells you , is there way to get into your homes, and cause the deception, through your televisoins, you tube , music and movies is satans plat form to preach to a world , to get them to reject the holy scriptures in the bible , and to reject the idea, only bad people and un saved people will suffer ?

you see, I am not a prophet , or have special skills or see the future, ?but the scriptures tell me  that I am a sinner saved by grace, in a evil and wicked world, were everything is covered up and made to be civilized and organized, and okay,  but satan has infiltrated the Hollywood movies, the minds of the young children in the education system with common core, they have changed law to go against the

Godlly, to make us radicals, on the most . world watch list, and to remove God out of the schools the courts and out of the military , and now to get the churches to bow, to the roman leaders of today , and the worship of a one world religion and government as spoken of by Daniel , we see the fore telling of what is happening around the worlds and what is about to happen to you and me , and it is total destruction of anything to do with God, and His people ? for they kill the prophets and  messengers  of God!

    we are living it today , many do not even have a clue about the poisons in the air the skies , the food, the water the vaccines, and the system that has already trapped, us, and we think,  and say ,when it comes,?  I will know ,and I will see it ?, but its here and its been here for a very long time, from your fathers ,fathers, before that,

please do not fool your self, Jesus said do not be deceived by men in the last days, for many come in MY NAME would that be CHRISTIAN GROUPS ? we need to test all and everything, for many are on that broad and wide road today , and you have been Warned,

God has gave Man enough to see with their eyes and their hearts , and so we will be with out NO EXCUSE !! if we do not heed the word of God, and start to seek Him and change our ways ,today , for we are still fallen short, and need to come back to Him, in prayer and Holiness

blessings and warnings ,  food for thought ,

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

• But the Lord will make a distinction between the livestock of Israel and the livestock of Egypt, so that nothing will die of all that belongs to the sons of Israel.  Exodus 9:4
• I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. . . . I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word.  John 17:15,20

During the plagues, God made a distinction between those who would be affected and those who wouldn't.  Taking believers out of the world doesn't seem to be the plan.  Making a distinction and keeping us from the evil one, does.

So then it would appear that no Believers would die during this time, thus no beheading, or killing of the Saints or Elect.  And all this because the livestock of Israel were not touched.  I am in amazement at the comparison.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[JG Hemlock]

I am only repeating what Yeshua has explained and revealed to me about the Harvest. He has spoken to me and told me that this is why many of those will fall away from the faith and take the mark of the beast. I am only repeating what the Lord has spoken and shown me. I do not add anything more to my words because it would merely be only my intellect and that is a grain of nothingness compared to our Lord's words. He says they will be unprepared and fall away from the faith. The true remnant will eagerly be waiting on the Harvest and calling out, "Send me Lord! Send me!" I do pray that He sends me.

Most of the 'rapture bunnies' are full of fear and so fearful of dying and many of them are not even saved. This is why they hold on to this false doctrine so tightly. Instead of arguing, we must try to be very simple yet straight forward. Jesus was never complex.

We need to ask them if they are prepared to die for the Lord and are they prepared to not take the mandatory mark of the beast when it is demanded.  We need to jog them awake spiritually and ask them if they are prepared, just in case this rapture ride which they were taught is not true.  The seed is planted and God will water it at the appointed time. He will water it. That is not our job. Our job is to spread the seeds and not to argue - I do not argue. I just repeat what He reveals to me in the scripture and leave the seed for the Great I Am to water.

Yeshua says that we will all drink from His cup and indeed we will when tribulation begins. Some are drinking from His cup right now and they have been for a very long time. T hey are unsure of why the devil is giving them a beat-down. I truly believe that those who have the most adversity coming against them from the enemy (Satan) are actually being prepared of their mighty mission from God  when the Harvest begins.

Many people have lived a 'charmed' life and they know nothing of what is to come nor how to handle it when true persecution comes. Persecution is not being 'told off online' or a chipped nail. Persecution is what we see in the Middle East. Many of these people are not prepared for persecution. Yeshua will send out those who have VICTORY in overcoming the enemy by their testimony and the Blood of the Lamb. They will not fear, they will actually be empowered by God all Mighty to do the laboring of the Harvest. These people truly are the Remnant who will step out after the destruction to find and minister to the lost, wounded and scared sheep whom He loves.

Sad and unfortunate to say that most people have to lose much or everything before they will humble and submit themselves to God. God works best when people are on their faces in anguish, pain and suffering. When we are weak He makes us strong. When judgment arrives our missions will begin - The Lord's ministry to help gather every last one of His sheep to him.

Have a blessed day everyone!  And for those who are drinking from the cup of Yeshua already and they are unable to understand why all of the suffering. Have you entertained the thought that He is preparing you to fulfill the mission He will call you for when the Harvest begins? That is awesome news! You may just be part of the Lord's remnant. Remember that there was a 4th man in that fire and it will be the same when the Harvest begins. That is terrific good news!

Shalom, JG

[Last Daze]

45 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

So then it would appear that no Believers would die during this time, thus no beheading, or killing of the Saints or Elect.  And all this because the livestock of Israel were not touched.  I am in amazement at the comparison.

And you will continue to be confused and in amazement as long as you fail to distinguish between tribulation and wrath and what pertains to what.  Exercise discernment.