Question for prewrathers and/or posttribbers

[DeighAnn]

9 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

And He did go away - to Hades for three days (Matt.12:40), rose and went to the Father (Jn.20:17, Heb.9:12), and then returned (Lk.24:36-39) and made the disciples ABODES of God's House by breathing the Holy Spirit into them (Jn.20:22).

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
 

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

 

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

Ephesians 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When He ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

 

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


 

1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:


1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.



 

1Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

1Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

1Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

1Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
(WHO WAS SLEEPING?  THOSE UNDER THE OLD COVENANT UNTIL THEY HEARD THE GOOD NEWS AND THEN HE LED THE CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE WHEN HE ASCENDED)

 

1Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

1Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order:
(AND HE WHO LIVETH AN BELIEVETH IN ME SHALL NEVER DIE)



Christ the firstfruits;
 
CHRIST THE HEAD CORNERSTONE


afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

THE ALIVE AND REMAINING


 

1Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end,

WHEN 'THE DEAD' WHO RISE AT HIS COMING ARE 1000 YEARS LATER STANDING IN JUDGMENT SOME TO BE FOUND IN THE BOOK OF LIFE (JUST) AND OF THE 2ND RESURRECTION

SO TO GO INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE (UNJUST)  2ND DEATH


AND THEN THE REST OF THE DEAD WHO RISE UP TO GO INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE


when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

1Corinthians 15:25 For He must reign, till he hath put all enemies under His feet.



 

2Corinthians 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.

2Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

2Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 If it is written

He is going to a place and we will follow,

THAT IS WHAT IS MEANT.  IMHO.  

All the rest is vainity.   THE simple and straight path
 

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 11:5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.

 

[OneLight]

30 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi OneLight,

I was asking you as this is what you said -

No, I am saying that when scripture is silent, so should we be silent.  We are not told when we will see our new homes, just that we will.

You are telling people that they will have a building, a new home, which is NOT scriptural.

 

As we are `immortal & incorruptible` we will not be needing earthly - shelter, food, care of bodies, medicines etc. So `homes` as in buildings is a nonsense. 

People tend to think in earthly terms with visions of `mansions` and great palaces for themselves. Time to just keep to what God says - our new bodies are our `homes.`   

So, when Jesus said "In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.", you think he meant our new bodies?  Mansions, or abodes, can have a metaphorical meaning as when the Holy Spirit lives within us.  I don't believe Jesus was speaking of this in such a way or we would be living within the Father Himself, so the only other meaning is some sort of dwelling place.  Neither you not I can say with 100% confidence one way or the other because we have not died yet. So, I'll just politely disagree with your theory.

[Marilyn C]

42 minutes ago, OneLight said:

So, when Jesus said "In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.", you think he meant our new bodies?  Mansions, or abodes, can have a metaphorical meaning as when the Holy Spirit lives within us.  I don't believe Jesus was speaking of this in such a way or we would be living within the Father Himself, so the only other meaning is some sort of dwelling place.  Neither you not I can say with 100% confidence one way or the other because we have not died yet. So, I'll just politely disagree with your theory.

Glad you brought that scripture up as that is what is confusing people. Now we know that Jesus was talking to the disciples there. Jesus said to THEM about the

`mone` Gk, for `a staying, residence, abode.`  (John 14: 2)

And Jesus told them exactly where that would be -

`Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed me will also sit on 12 thrones, judging the TRIBES OF ISRAEL.` (Matt. 19: 28)

And we see the fulfillment -

`Now the wall of the city had 12 foundations, and on them were the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb.` (Rev. 21: 14)

Thus the `abodes` of the 12 disciples/apostles of the Lamb will be in the city, the new Jerusalem. 

The Body of Christ, however has been promised a different inheritance - to rule with the Lord ON His throne `far above all.` We do not descend, as the NJ does, but stay in the third heaven with Christ on His seat of power and authority.

And all we need is a new body like the Lord`s glorified body that is immortal and incorruptible and can go throughout God`s great kingdom. 

We do NOT need a building, and we have never been told that. 

Let us proclaim the Lord as pre-eminent `far above` all, and ruling through His Body in the third heaven, and through the 12 disciples in the New Jerusalem, and through Israel on the new Earth.   

[luigi]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

So if I understand, you don't see a specific point in time when this verse will take place? 

I understand the verse to be spiritual in preparing us. The mansions are already there.

[OneLight]

23 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Glad you brought that scripture up as that is what is confusing people. Now we know that Jesus was talking to the disciples there. Jesus said to THEM about the

`mone` Gk, for `a staying, residence, abode.`  (John 14: 2)

And Jesus told them exactly where that would be -

`Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed me will also sit on 12 thrones, judging the TRIBES OF ISRAEL.` (Matt. 19: 28)

And we see the fulfillment -

`Now the wall of the city had 12 foundations, and on them were the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb.` (Rev. 21: 14)

Thus the `abodes` of the 12 disciples/apostles of the Lamb will be in the city, the new Jerusalem. 

The Body of Christ, however has been promised a different inheritance - to rule with the Lord ON His throne `far above all.` We do not descend, as the NJ does, but stay in the third heaven with Christ on His seat of power and authority.

And all we need is a new body like the Lord`s glorified body that is immortal and incorruptible and can go throughout God`s great kingdom. 

We do NOT need a building, and we have never been told that. 

Let us proclaim the Lord as pre-eminent `far above` all, and ruling through His Body in the third heaven, and through the 12 disciples in the New Jerusalem, and through Israel on the new Earth.   

According to your theology, very little of Jesus' teachings are for us today as none of us were in the audience.  I suppose that we don't have the Helper, the Holy Spirit either ... but wait, even though Jesus spoke this to the disciples of His time, we read later in scripture that we do have the Holy Spirit.  Your understanding don't hold water in my view.  I'll leave it at that.  As I said, which you ignored, I disagree with your theology, again.

[iamlamad]

57 minutes ago, luigi said:

I understand the verse to be spiritual in preparing us. The mansions are already there.

I believe they are NOW, but not when Jesus said He was going to prepare, or make ready a place for us, He had already said that in the Father's house there are many dwellings, hinting strongly that He was to prepare more dwellings.

I have heard or read testimony after testimony of people who had died and gone to heaven, but got prayed back to their body. They have told of seeing mansions being prepared and seeing many already completed. Some have seen their OWN mansion. More recently some have been told all mansions are now completed.

Since these testimonies agree with scripture, I believe them.

[iamlamad]

57 minutes ago, OneLight said:

According to your theology, very little of Jesus' teachings are for us today as none of us were in the audience.  I suppose that we don't have the Helper, the Holy Spirit either ... but wait, even though Jesus spoke this to the disciples of His time, we read later in scripture that we do have the Holy Spirit.  Your understanding don't hold water in my view.  I'll leave it at that.  As I said, which you ignored, I disagree with your theology, again.

Disagreement runs RAMPANT in these threads!  : -)))

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Glad you brought that scripture up as that is what is confusing people. Now we know that Jesus was talking to the disciples there. Jesus said to THEM about the

`mone` Gk, for `a staying, residence, abode.`  (John 14: 2)

And Jesus told them exactly where that would be -

`Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed me will also sit on 12 thrones, judging the TRIBES OF ISRAEL.` (Matt. 19: 28)

And we see the fulfillment -

`Now the wall of the city had 12 foundations, and on them were the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb.` (Rev. 21: 14)

Thus the `abodes` of the 12 disciples/apostles of the Lamb will be in the city, the new Jerusalem. 

The Body of Christ, however has been promised a different inheritance - to rule with the Lord ON His throne `far above all.` We do not descend, as the NJ does, but stay in the third heaven with Christ on His seat of power and authority.

And all we need is a new body like the Lord`s glorified body that is immortal and incorruptible and can go throughout God`s great kingdom. 

We do NOT need a building, and we have never been told that. 

Let us proclaim the Lord as pre-eminent `far above` all, and ruling through His Body in the third heaven, and through the 12 disciples in the New Jerusalem, and through Israel on the new Earth.   

No one said anything about a NEED. God wants to overwhelm us with blessing and one such blessing will be our own home. One person who has been there and came back to testify said that most mansions there are bigger than the white house!  

Yes, of course some of these mansions will be in the Holy City. Does it not make sense that some may well have a mansion in another city in heaven?

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi OneLight,

I was asking you as this is what you said -

No, I am saying that when scripture is silent, so should we be silent.  We are not told when we will see our new homes, just that we will.

You are telling people that they will have a building, a new home, which is NOT scriptural.

 

As we are `immortal & incorruptible` we will not be needing earthly - shelter, food, care of bodies, medicines etc. So `homes` as in buildings is a nonsense. 

People tend to think in earthly terms with visions of `mansions` and great palaces for themselves. Time to just keep to what God says - our new bodies are our `homes.`   

I disagree. I think Jesus was speaking of physical buildings or mansions. MANY people by now have testified of SEEING these mansions after they died and where then prayed back to their body.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


And He will appear to us on our LAST DAY.  

On the Last day of the Old Covenant  the graves were opened and the dead rose

On the Last day of our 'life' we will rise and He will meet us and bring us to the Father

On the last day of this age  "the dead - both the just and the unjust' will rise

Also on the last day of this age 'those left alive and remaining will be changed'

On the LAST DAY of the LORDS DAY, at the GWTJ,  the rest of the DEAD will rise to go into the lake of fire AFTER the 'dead -both just and unjust' who rose 1000 years before stand in judgment.  


The last day is WHAT EVER THE SUBJECT TELLS YOU IT IS.  It isn't the LAST DAY of 2000 years ago like everyone keeps trying to make it.  THAT IS WHY the BIBLE never makes any sense.  THAT LAST DAY already happened.  DON'T BELIEVE ME?  Try and FIND IT MENTIONED after 'the graves were opened' 2000 years ago as a day when 'all resurrect'.  Can't be done as only the dead resurrect on that day.  

All those who believed are returning.  Some of the dead are rising.  And the alive and remaining are being changed.  

Quote

On the Last day of our 'life' we will rise and He will meet us and bring us to the Father

I have heard or read testimony after testimony of people who have said it was angels who escorted them to heaven after their body ceased to function.

Quote

Also on the last day of this age 'those left alive and remaining will be changed'

This I can agree with, but only after the dead in Christ rise. It is my belief that John 14 1-2 will take place immediately after we rise to meet Jesus in the air. He said there that He would come and take us to Himself. Paul tells us the rapture events is a coming.

Quote

THAT LAST DAY already happened.

Sorry, but here is where I give up. 

The bible tells us there was a last day that Jesus was on the earth, the day He ascended. (Just not in so many words.)

The bible tells us there will be a last day of the church age, when the rapture will take place.  (Just not in so many words.)

The bible tells us there will be a future 70th week, and so it will end and that will be the last day of the 70th week.  (Just not in so many words.)

The bible tells us there will be a future millennial reign. It too will have a last day.

The bible tells us that one day this heaven and earth will disagree when the time comes for the great, white throne judgment. We could say then that there will be a last day for this earth.

Therefore I vehemently disagree with you.

The "last day" Jesus spoke of in John 5 and 6, I believe will be the last 24 hours of the 70th week that will end the Jewish age we are living in.