Question for prewrathers and/or posttribbers

[Wayne222]

It says in my Father's house are many mansions. What is God's House ? Is it the new Jerusalem ? It could be referring to our place in the new Jerusalem. Which is our rank as a servant of Christ. Christ said enter the joy of the lord. He was talking about rulership. We well rule with Christ and Christ is preparing those places of rulership. I could be wrong 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I have heard or read testimony after testimony of people who have said it was angels who escorted them to heaven after their body ceased to function.

I believe this is what John 14 is speaking about.  This is how 'we never die'.  If we did die, then we would remain in the ground with the dead and would rise up with them when Christ returns for the Lords Day.  The only way to never die is to continue on living and that would have to be in heaven where He is.  IMHO.

I believe there can only be 1 time that 'the alive and remaining' are changed and that is when Christ returns to set up His Kingdom here on earth.  

I believe those who believed and rose from the dead 2000 years ago and all those who have continued on living ever since have gone to be with Him and will be on those horses following Him when He returns for the Lords Day.  

If the alive and remaining were changed before that time, it would void out 

1.  all the remaining changed
2.  every one to die and then judgment
3.  the return in like manner for the day of vengeance
4.  the command by God to sit at the right hand until
5.  the prayer that God not take anyone from the earth
6.  the needing everyone to be here to the end so that everyone can here His words and come to faith
7.  the trying to save life means we lose it and losing it for Him means we save it

it goes on and on

BUT I don't believe the TRIB is going to be some death and destruction all over the world thing.  When I look at Satan and Eve and Satan and Jesus Christ there was lots of DECEPTION going on and I have never read of Satan 'killing' anyone other that their soul.  Men kill men.  The fallen angels are going to be ruling the masses with Satan and deceiving the world.  God even tells us it isn't about flesh and blood but about Spiritual powers.  The death will be from 'believing Satans lies' and worshipping another 'god'.  Look where their power is -  in their mouth.  It's with a 'flood of lies'.  Wins them over with flatteries.   Will be prosperous.  He will be doing what no other king has done and that is sharing in the spoils.  It will be when you hear peace and safety that Christ returns and then sudden destruction.  AT LEAST that is what is WRITTEN.  I know about the grass and the trees dying but those things are happening now.  I don't read any of the things 'I hear about being left behind' in the words of God except when Christ returns and we are all in spiritual bodies for that so it sounds worse than it is.   
 
I don't fear death of the flesh and pretty sure 'death' can't be any worse now than it has always been.  I mean what death could happen during trib that hasn't happened for the past 6000 years?  Is there some 'harder' death that has never been before that Satan will be able to impose?   NO.  Death of the flesh is death of the flesh.  Starving takes place today.  As does all kinds of death.  I just don't understand what the big fear is.  They used to put people in dark dungeons for 15 20 30 years.  The worst it could be during the trib is 3 1/2.  IDK.  


 

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

This I can agree with, but only after the dead in Christ rise. It is my belief that John 14 1-2 will take place immediately after we rise to meet Jesus in the air. He said there that He would come and take us to Himself. Paul tells us the rapture events is a coming.

I understand what you believe but I think that when Christ returns there is no 'going to heaven' and the Kingdom of Heaven is coming HERE.  Heaven is rolled away like a scroll.  The Lord is bringing 10,000 thousands of Angels and Saints with Him.  THAT is not a 'turn around trip' that is the dawning of a new day.  I think John 14 began 2000 years ago and ends when they all come back.  That is why the rest have to be 'changed' so EVERYONE is like the angels, not just some.  

Paul does tell us the CHANGE is coming but He tells us it is AFTER Satan and we know this because it is the BRIGHTNESS of the Lord that destroys Satan, so that Christ cant can't come first, as I see it anyhow.  I just don't like things that aren't written especially when they goes against what is.  Making void the words of God is never a good thing.  


 

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The bible tells us there was a last day that Jesus was on the earth, the day He ascended.

Those words are very specific

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The bible tells us there will be a last day of the church age, when the rapture will take place. 

There are no words written on this that I know of.

 

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The bible tells us there will be a future 70th week, and so it will end and that will be the last day of the 70th week. 

There are very specific words on this also


 

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The bible tells us there will be a future millennial reign. It too will have a last day.

Agreed

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The bible tells us that one day this heaven and earth will disagree when the time comes for the great, white throne judgment. We could say then that there will be a last day for this earth.

This is just the ending of the Lords Day so I don't know what any of that means.  And I have never heard that before so I REALLY have no idea what that means.





I don't know what 'Jewish' age we are living in either.  The House of Judah has been blinded to the Truth of the Messiah and will be until it is united with the 'scattered sheep of the House of Israel AKA the church'.  Till then, just like the Jews were tested when Jesus came the first time, the 'church' will be tested when Satan comes this time.  BUT really what kind of a test will it be for those who have put on the gospel armor?  It's almost like cheating since we are given all the answers first and we know how it ends.  We just have to do for Christ what Christ did for GOD, at least that is what is written.  


I would ask to see scripture for this 'pre trib rap of the gentile church' but what is  presented as saying it is pre trib doesn't say that at all.   So yes, we very much disagree.  I would be willing to tell you how I would answer Gods questions if you would. 


 

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, OneLight said:

According to your theology, very little of Jesus' teachings are for us today as none of us were in the audience.  I suppose that we don't have the Helper, the Holy Spirit either ... but wait, even though Jesus spoke this to the disciples of His time, we read later in scripture that we do have the Holy Spirit.  Your understanding don't hold water in my view.  I'll leave it at that.  As I said, which you ignored, I disagree with your theology, again.

Hi OneLight,

Now you are assuming things there. Remember what God`s word says - 

`ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.` (2 Tim. 3: 16 & 17)

Now I DO NOT  read there that everything in God`s word is ALL ABOUT US!!!!!

We are to learn from what happened to others and from what the Lord said to others concerning HIS PURPOSES. 

Also the Holy Spirit is given  to `guide you into ALL TRUTH...` (John 16: 13)  

Now remember that when Jesus ascended to the Father He was made HEAD of HIS BODY. And from there He has spoken through the Holy Spirit of His purpose for the Body. This revelation was NOT known previously, however the Lord still speaks and guides His people into ALL TRUTH.

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

No one said anything about a NEED. God wants to overwhelm us with blessing and one such blessing will be our own home. One person who has been there and came back to testify said that most mansions there are bigger than the white house!  

Yes, of course some of these mansions will be in the Holy City. Does it not make sense that some may well have a mansion in another city in heaven?

Oh so God is going to give people Hollywood, Disney type of `blessings.` 

The greatest blessing God can give is of Himself, His Son, who gave His life, and gives His Divine nature. 

Nothing greater.

[OneLight]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi OneLight,

Now you are assuming things there. Remember what God`s word says - 

`ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.` (2 Tim. 3: 16 & 17)

Now I DO NOT  read there that everything in God`s word is ALL ABOUT US!!!!!

We are to learn from what happened to others and from what the Lord said to others concerning HIS PURPOSES. 

Also the Holy Spirit is given  to `guide you into ALL TRUTH...` (John 16: 13)  

Now remember that when Jesus ascended to the Father He was made HEAD of HIS BODY. And from there He has spoken through the Holy Spirit of His purpose for the Body. This revelation was NOT known previously, however the Lord still speaks and guides His people into ALL TRUTH.

You can doubt all you want, that's your choice. 

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Oh so God is going to give people Hollywood, Disney type of `blessings.` 

The greatest blessing God can give is of Himself, His Son, who gave His life, and gives His Divine nature. 

Nothing greater.

His desire to bless His children did not end with His great sacrifice. He gives us the desires of our heart. He has been busy building mansions for His children since He left earth. If you don't want one, perhaps He won't build one for you. 

The truth is, the church is going to spend seven plus years in heaven before we return with Him to Armageddon. We will then see and enjoy our mansions. 

Many people don't believe in a pretrib rapture. They expect to see the Beast first. I suspect they will not get to see their mansion until they refuse the mark and lose their head. 

[OneLight]

1 Corinthians 2:9

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

[Cntrysner]

16 hours ago, OneLight said:

That scripture tells us what occurs when we are to be caught up to be with the Lord, known as the rapture.  It does not specifically tell us that we will be introduced to our new homes at that time.

Hello OneLight,

I think God through His word clearly teaches us that we will be clothed upon with our new home at the moment of our death.

Co 5:1  For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 
2Co 5:2  For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 
2Co 5:3  If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 
2Co 5:4  For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 
2Co 5:5  Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 
2Co 5:6  Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 
2Co 5:7  (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 
2Co 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 

[OneLight]

7 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

Hello OneLight,

I think God through His word clearly teaches us that we will be clothed upon with our new home at the moment of our death.

Co 5:1  For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 
2Co 5:2  For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 
2Co 5:3  If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 
2Co 5:4  For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 
2Co 5:5  Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 
2Co 5:6  Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 
2Co 5:7  (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 
2Co 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 

I'll not address verse 5:8 as nobody has ever come back from the dead to tell us how long it took after death before we are raptured and given our incorruptible body, because the rapture has not happened yet.  1 Corinthians 15:50-55 tells us:

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

55 “O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”

As for comparing John 14:2, where it speaks of abodes (mansions) to 2 Corinthians 5:2, where it speaks about habitations, the Greek uses two different words.  The first from John 14:2 is "monai" (G3438) which simply means "to remain, dwell . A mansion, habitation, abode" pointing to a structure of some sort where one lives and dwells.  The second from 2 Corinthians 5:2 is "oikEtEnon" (G3613) which does speak figuratively to our future spiritual body as the abode of our soul.  Though they sound similar, they are different.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

I'll not address verse 5:8 as nobody has ever come back from the dead to tell us how long it took after death before we are raptured and given our incorruptible body, because the rapture has not happened yet.  1 Corinthians 15:50-55 tells us:

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

55 “O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”

As for comparing John 14:2, where it speaks of abodes (mansions) to 2 Corinthians 5:2, where it speaks about habitations, the Greek uses two different words.  The first from John 14:2 is "monai" (G3438) which simply means "to remain, dwell . A mansion, habitation, abode" pointing to a structure of some sort where one lives and dwells.  The second from 2 Corinthians 5:2 is "oikEtEnon" (G3613) which does speak figuratively to our future spiritual body as the abode of our soul.  Though they sound similar, they are different.

Do you believe that those who 'never die' ARE ACTUALLY the 'dead' who rise at His return at the last trump?  


Or

If we have/are, through Christ 

come to faith
been saved
made alive
quickened together with Christ
pass through death
been washed clean
repented and had our sins forgiven
be under grace
have received the gift of salvation
been justified
sanctified
have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us
had baptism  save us
been made a new creature
had Christ bring us to God
but quickened by the Spirit
having already died and been buried once
told not come into condemnation

how could any part of us be found in and amongst THE DEAD/the unsaved?


Why would dwelling or remaining with Christ in heaven, where He is not be 'acceptable', 

but in graves in the dust of the earth where those who were once dead and in the graves had had  them opened and were set free when believing on Him  and rose with Him and are with Him now?  

If a 'rapture' as you address it has not taken place then who were the saints seen out of the graves and who was the captivity He led captive when He ascended?