Pre trib rapture is fake

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, SINNERSAVED said:

or after chaos and tribulation, that DOES NOT MATTER , the truth is are you ready to meet the JESUS, and or to endure suffering until the end of your life, if there be no rapture and you have to go on in life and to endure the evil and wickedness of the world , would you think God does not love you and has abandon you ? many in that day , will curse God for they have been deceived to believe a lie, that they would not suffer and this is the biggest lie of them all, for the millions that died through our the centuries horrific and killed and death was there only way out, they endured until the end , as painful and even to take all the punishment and beatings and being fed to the lions and burned alive,

Yes, in this world we will have tribulation.  That truth is plainly stated.  It is because we are not of this world and the world hates us.  Don't expect to escape tribulation, prepare to endure it. 

• But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.  Matthew 24:13

[Paradigm]

Matthew 24:40-41 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.  Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

 

Although this passage is one of the main proof texts for the rapture doctrine, when we actually look at the verses in context, it proves the opposite. 

 

Matthew 24:37-41³⁷ But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. ³⁸ For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, ³⁹ And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. ⁴⁰ Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

 

The subject of those "taken" is in the context of the flood of Noah. Noah and his family were left behind. It was the ungodly that were "taken" in judgement by the waters of the flood. 

 

It is also clear that the tares (children of the wicked one) will be gathered first. Then the wheat (The children of the kingdom) are gathered. 

 

It is also clear that Y'shua prayed that The Father not take his followers out of the world. Who's prayer will be answered? Y'shua's prayer to not take believers out of the world or what others hope or pray?

 

It is also clear from Revelation 20 that those who take part in the first resurrection are those who are blessed and holy and have overcome the beast, his image, etc. 

 

Revelation 20:4-6  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Y'shua, and for the word of Elohim, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

⁵ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

⁶ Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

The first resurrection is for those who refused the mark and did not worship the beast. 

 

[JG Hemlock]

I believe that all of these misunderstandings and false teachings have come from misinterpretation of scripture because they have been taught by the 'intellect' and scriptures are not being taught by one who has he Holy Spirit indwelling inside them. Many believe that the "Church" is the Bride and the 144,000 and that they are the 'First fruits/church and that is where the confusion begins to take place. The 3 fold Harvest is being interpreted incorrectly regarding who it pertains to and what the spiritual union and the spiritual transfiguration is. Far too much to speak of. God bless you all. I am stepping away from this thread.

[HAZARD]

12 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Please, be careful in your choice of words. When you say something is a lie, you are saying that people who say such things, are intentionally deceiving others. Perhaps, they are deceived themselves, and are intending good, not evil. Not everything that is not true, is necessarily a lie!

I answered his question which was,  NOW WITH ALL OF THIS YOU TELL ME IF IT IS A LIE OR NOT        

[WilliamL]

2 hours ago, Paradigm said:

The first resurrection is for those who refused the mark and did not worship the beast. 

Adapted from another post:

The 144,000 Israelites who are taken up before the heavenly throne are "firstfruits to God" (Rev. 14:4), but not the (exclusive) firstfruits. For all who arise during the translations/raptures/resurrections (plural) of the righteous are firstborn/firstfruits. These include those who rose right after Jesus rose, and the elect of the Church = great multitude of Rev. 7 who are to rise in the Rapture, and the Two Witnesses who rise from the dead and ascend into heaven, and the post-Wrath saints of Rev. 20:4-5, who rise in "the first resurrection." On all of these groups "the second death has no power" (20:6): the second death being for those who reject the Messiah after coming to know that he is Jesus.

The firstfruits/firstborn/first resurrection is for all of the faithful who are brought into God's Presence prior to the Millennium.

[Montana Marv]

3 hours ago, Paradigm said:

Matthew 24:40-41 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.  Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

 

Although this passage is one of the main proof texts for the rapture doctrine, when we actually look at the verses in context, it proves the opposite. 

 

Matthew 24:37-41³⁷ But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. ³⁸ For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, ³⁹ And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. ⁴⁰ Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

 

The subject of those "taken" is in the context of the flood of Noah. Noah and his family were left behind. It was the ungodly that were "taken" in judgement by the waters of the flood. 

 

It is also clear that the tares (children of the wicked one) will be gathered first. Then the wheat (The children of the kingdom) are gathered. 

 

It is also clear that Y'shua prayed that The Father not take his followers out of the world. Who's prayer will be answered? Y'shua's prayer to not take believers out of the world or what others hope or pray?

 

It is also clear from Revelation 20 that those who take part in the first resurrection are those who are blessed and holy and have overcome the beast, his image, etc. 

 

Revelation 20:4-6  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Y'shua, and for the word of Elohim, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

⁵ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

⁶ Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

The first resurrection is for those who refused the mark and did not worship the beast. 

 

Really it is the other way.  Noah and his family were taken up out of the way. Those who remained all died.  Those taken were lifted up on high as in the Rapture. Those left behind had to die.

The First Resurrection is for the Just. Not just for those who did not worship the beast

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Paradigm]

Thanks for your comments Montana. If you check the passage in Matthew, I was not taking liberties with the text. It says that "the flood came and took them all away." That is talking about the ungodly, not Noah. We would have to change the text around to come up with a different interpretation than what the passage says. 

Regarding Rev 20 it describes the people that are in the first resurrection as those who did not worship the beast's image, accept his mark, etc. Clearly from the passage the people discussed in the first resurrection had overcome the beast, his image, mark, etc. Again, we cannot change the text to fit our theology, but our theology to fit the text.

thanks,

Keith

[Montana Marv]

8 minutes ago, Paradigm said:

Thanks for your comments Montana. If you check the passage in Matthew, I was not taking liberties with the text. It says that "the flood came and took them all away." That is talking about the ungodly, not Noah. We would have to change the text around to come up with a different interpretation than what the passage says. 

Regarding Rev 20 it describes the people that are in the first resurrection as those who did not worship the beast's image, accept his mark, etc. Clearly from the passage the people discussed in the first resurrection had overcome the beast, his image, mark, etc. Again, we cannot change the text to fit our theology, but our theology to fit the text.

thanks,

Keith

A misnomer.

J. Vernon Magee never had chance to take the Mark. Billy Sunday, All those who have previously died did not have the opportunity. Are they of the First Resurrection.

Look again

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Kan]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

Really it is the other way.  Noah and his family were taken up out of the way. Those who remained all died.  Those taken were lifted up on high as in the Rapture. Those left behind had to die.

The First Resurrection is for the Just. Not just for those who did not worship the beast

In Christ

Montana Marv

"The flood came and took them all away" is referring to the death of the wicked and not Noah and his family floating up in a rapturous boat.

Yes, the first resurrection is for all the just, not only for those who were living at the time of the mark of the beast and did not receive it, as a great multitude is also mentioned.

The scenes of the saved in heaven, are often followed by a description of a trial afterwards, as if to bring a message of hope and courage first.

[MorningGlory]

19 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Can I quote you in this   in the Its just me thread

Sure.  But you're going to blow to bits my 'know it all' reputation!