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Thank You. I have a photo of Martha standing with the van and all the kids. I should dig it out and post it.

That makes sense to me. I think we, the church, are the body and the bride of Christ. Wow! ❤️

Glad you’re feeling a little better… it sounds like you’ve been grieving but also you sound so much more at peace… letting go and letting God is such a hard thing to do but we are powerless in so much & God is not. I think when we let go and give up control there is always some grieving that we do. I am glad to hear you putting your focus more on God instead of your circumstances. That will lead you to peace whatever the outcome is. So sorry for all you are going through... Saying a prayer for you tonight...God is able.

The problem i often find when people say they are tired of the "people" in the church, is first, unrealistic expectations. They expect the people in the church to be these perfect angels, who never do any wrong, and forget that these people, are just like you and I, sinners who are not perfect, and are all at different walks in their faith, so yes they, like us are going to mess up, and cause others pain-sometimes by making selfish decisions and sometimes inadvertently, as well. And sometimes it is better to find another church if the church you are in is truly not following christ, but if your having issues with people hurting you everywhere you go, maybe its time to reevaluate yourself, and make sure that your not part of the problem.

My grampa. He told me the Gospel of Grace when I was very young. When he told me what Jesus did for me I flung myself on the ground and wailed and cried. I was overcome. Thank God!

I hope you don't mind a long story: A nurse named Martha who was also a loving, Christian lady. She also happen to be the nurse who help bring me into the world. She and her husband answer a calling to pick up people for Sunday School and church who had no other way to get there. It was mostly kids like me who did not have parents that would take them to church. Anyway, I stayed with my grandparent on weekends. One Saturday night she stop by for a visit as she knew my grandmother. I sat there as the grown ups talked and they started talking about church. Martha said that she picks people up for church and then ask my grandmother if I would like to go. I must of been about 6 years old at the time. My grandmother turn to me and asked me if I would like to go to church in the morning. It sounded fun to me and I sort of remember going when I was very little, so I said "yeah sure." I remember I did not have any good clothes to wear but I did have one nice pant suit (it was the 70's) so I wore that. That Sunday Martha and and her husband pulled up in front of my grandparent's house in their van full of people. Then off we went to church. This lead to me attending church regularly. Not only on Sunday mornings but midweek Bible study, vacation Bible school in the summer, every revival service, , out of town church events, church parties and any other time the church doors were open. When Martha and her husband went on vacation they made arrangements with other people at the church to make sure that the "van kids" as we were call all had a ride to church. From the age of 6 years old until I was 19 when I got my first car and could drive myself to church. This dear lady picked me up and brought me to every church service no matter what. In one of the revival services that she brought me too, I heard the call of the Holy Spirit on my heart and accepted Christ as my savor when I was 13 years old. It is my believe that had this dear lady never showed up at my grandmother's house on that Saturday night, I would have never attended church. As I had no one to take me. There for I would have never heard the call on my heart to accept Christ. I grew up into adulthood and I drove myself to church. Martha and her husband still picked up van loads of kids (sometimes making two trips) to church. Before she died I sent her and her husband a letter telling them what an impact they made on my life. Buy doing nothing more then picking me up for church. When she died, I spoke at her funeral and told everyone there what this dear lady had done for me. I can not not tell this story without crying as it is the most beautiful thing. It may just seem like a small thing giving someone a ride to church, but nothing done for God is ever small. So anyway if you are still reading this. That is my story. Thank You for your time.

Aside from my parents--who bore my brother and me (twins) and have cared for me throughout my life despite being premature, my poor eye condition since birth, and my disobedient childhood--I'd have to say those believers who gave up their decent-paying jobs to serve overseas for nothing but hardships and risks, or passed up on higher education or better job positions to serve the Lord and the church. Such selfless acts and decisions will be remembered forever.

Hi onedirection, I believe HikerMom has given you godly advice. It is time to stop going hither and thither and running to and fro seeking a one cure all. Just stop! Emotionally you are wearing yourself out and it`s like you pray but then grab the wheel from the Lord and try this road, that road, and back again. Stop! Take you hands right off the wheel of trying to sort this out. Settle down, take a deep breath, breathe some more and go quietly about you day. Seek to be stable, seek to just continue to be thankful, seek to give the LORD TIME to show you HIS DIRECTION. And that is when YOU HAVE SETTLED DOWN. The glory will not go to this or that BUT TO THE LORD, who is the restorer of all things. praying Marilyn.

See that little comma after the word, “…..saying, “ Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And these verses about false Christs and in the flesh in such a way as people will be able to pinpoint where these false Christs are…….whereas the coming of the Lord will be like lightening from east to the west, and every eye will see Him. And He speaks of it further here: Mat 24:23-24 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Rather odd you would mention that we sucking from the teet of the pastor. WHAT PASTOR. I was not raised in Church . by grace I just read and learned the bible Aint no milk from them pastors . I wish they did give milk , but the only milk I see in most of them , IS CHOCOLATE , but it don't smell like any chocolate I ever smelt .

The way is narrow and so is the gate. I'll be odd man out. So where all the other true saints. Have a good one.

There is a interesting concept regarding Feast of Trumpets (Yom Teruah). It is the only feast day that starts on the first of a month. The first of the month can only be determined when two witnesses confirm the New Moon has begun. The Torah requires that two or more witnesses are required to settle a matter. So, by extension, Yom Teruah is also called "the day that no man knows" since it cannot be established when it starts until the New Moon is established. Also, Yom Teruah is a two day period. So, therefore, it could relate to the removal of the righteous and still adhere to the scripture of "no one knows the day or the hour". In Jewish thought, Yom Teruah is also known as the coronation of Messiah as King, the wedding of the Messiah, and the sealing of the righteous before the Days of Awe (7 days) between Yom Teruah and Yom Kippur. Yom Teruah is the 1st of Tishri and lasts two days. The Days of Awe are 3 Tishri thru 9 Tishri, 7 days. Yom Kippur is the 10th of Tishri. A common greeting among the more orthodox Jewish people on Yom Teruah is.... "may you be sealed for a new year". It is not unrealistic to see Yom Teruah as the removal of the righteous before the GT period. The 7 Days of Awe could represent the 7 years of the GT period. And Yom Kippur when the Atonement of YHVH comes (Yeshua). One cannot make doctrine out of that alone, but it does support the general outline of the scripture. And all the feasts point to and speak of the Messiah. Every letter. Given that the spring feasts were fulfilled precisely as they were intended during the first coming of Yeshua, it is not unreasonable to assert that the fall feast days will also be precisely fulfilled by Yeshua.

Agreed. Jesus said, "All that I have is yours." These are very deceptive days though my friend, we want to be sure we are apprehending things properly. And you are right we need the whole counsel of God on all things, and let His word (all of it) guide how we should take the idea of ruling and reigning with Christ and sitting with Him on His throne. Since Jesus said in the last days many would come in His name saying they are Christs and we are not to follow them..........then let that be a kind of boundary to our thinking, that we not stray over that line in our mind. This is not to attack you, it's for your good because that is a deception that Jesus said will arise in the last days .....and neither am I saying that you're getting this wrong.....I just don't know for sure, and wanted to put out those cautions just in case.

OF COURSE the church will continue, but without the Jews. God turned to the Gentiles when Israel as a nation refused to accept Jesus as their messiah. I agree with you that Gentiles are grafted in. But that is the point: the church today is a Gentile church. And it will remain so until the fullness of the Gentiles will have come in. At that time God will rapture the church and then the 70th week will begin: 7 years designed for HEBREW people. We could say that God's FOCUS will be on the Jews and Hebrews after the pretrib rapture. I understand there are a few Jews that have believed in Jesus, but they make up a very small percent of the church today.

Amen! We will never be God, but rather He will always be OUR God. So IF that is what is being brought with this thread.....it needs some important tweeking. Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Hmm.....you didn't respond to the rest of my post. Do you agree/disagree......and hope you agree that we should look at the whole counsel of God on a matter in order to understand it aright...? Psalm 8 is a kind of blended messianic prophecy.....having "dominion" over the earth and the beasts will be and is being restored to man IN CHRIST, but not apart from Him in our own right. We have to be in subjection to Christ. Remember the Bride of Christ in union with her Bridegroom is in SUBMISSION to His Lordship...which marriage is a picture of. (And even Jesus will hand the kingdom back to the Father in the end.....even Jesus does all this for the Father and HIS glory, not for himself.) I'm not arguing against ruling and reigning with Him....just discussing and making a point that we need to apprehend it in a right way......and hope you will please let us know your thoughts on those who come in His name saying they are Christs, and on the Is. 43 passage saying no more Gods are going to be formed.....since these are important issues in relation to what you are bringing here. Thanks.

I already KNOW JESUS said we will sit in His throne with Him. MY POINT is the same POINT HE made to his own . YES JESUS gives us power over the enemy , Yes we will sit IN HIM , But let us focus RATHER on the fact our names are wrote above . Pride will destroy and JESUS knew that . Too many sat in the wrong churches , under the wrong men , who exalted the the I am , we are , OF THE MIRROR . Besides , we aint got them crowns YET , they await us ONLY on HIS DAY . Let us learn to be humble , ONLY awaiting the DAY called HIS DAY where as I said , WE WILL KNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL before the throne casting those crowns at his feet . Saying not worthy are we , BUT WORTHY IS THE LAMB to receive all HONOR .

The author of Hebrews quoted David and then went on to say we do not YET, see all thinhs subjected us Rather ODD , pauls version seem to be focused on we do not yet see all things subject to HIM . I believe that word says HIM . And as I said earlier , EVEN though JESUS had given his own power , power over the enemy to cast out demons and etc DO TRY and REMEMBER JESUS said NOT TO FOCUS or REJOICE IN THAT , but rather your names are wrote in heaven . SO, lets FOCUS ON HIM and let our minds and hearts be awaiting HIS DAY , where we KNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL Before the throne and cast our crowns , or rather , THE CROWNS HIS GRACE SUPPLIED , at his feet . Be sure my friends to make sure you are following the GREAT I AM , and not rather focusing on the WE IS .

Sounds like some are too focused on the wrong I am . Last time I read the saints were all kneeling before the THRONE and from greatful hearts were casting crowns at his feet . Focusing on the wrong I am , will lead to certain death . Instead of focusing on SITTING ON HIS THRONE why not rather focus on HE as KING and just be greatful for HIS salvation .

If ever there was a subject that I wouldn't DARE presume to touch with my hands of flesh (carnal mind), this is it....remember what happened when they tried to handle the ark without the poles. We need to be really careful we are rightly dividing the word of truth on these things. And humbly never lose sight of the fact that we all have a lifetime of working out our salvation with fear and trembling before the judgment. When the disciples asked Jesus about the signs of the end, the very FIRST thing that He answered in all the gospels where it was recorded, was to beware that many would come saying they are Christs, and not to follow them. So as long as we aren't going down THAT road with this in our understanding, then okay. (Are we...? I hope not.) And remember this truth, to keep it tucked away in our hearts: Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. And as Yowm pointed out....Hebrews is saying we do not yet see all things put in subjection under HIS feet, not ours....because we ourselves belong to those things that need to be in subjection to Him. A very important difference that hopefully will help us not stray outside the bounds of truth on these things.

The one mocking the weather channel was funny. Parody seems to be allowed in the music industry without it infringing on copyrights, but the taking of whole sequences of video, from tv programs might seriously infinge on the work of the original actors and the production companies that made the program Star Trek, so I can imagine there are many issues for contention that are more serious then just left vs right political leanings being offended. If I were one of the actors and my work was being used to profit another I would not be too happy. I would complain and likely bring suit for damages. I would think You Tube doesn't need to be brought into a lawsuit of that kind, could get very expensive for them. Practical example- Politicians get sued for using music as their introduction themes without permission.

three guys from Pay Pall created youtube and Google bought it sometime around 2005-2006. it is a subsidiary of the Google Corp which restructured in 2015 and became a subsidiary of the newly created "Alphabet Inc." parent company..... reasons for the restructuring is too complex to get into. Alphabet has subsidiaries in all kinds of fields. btw, I am a subscriber of his..... he's funny.

What a beautiful story, LadyKay!! Thanks so much for taking the time to write all of it out. I also think it's wonderful that you wrote this couple that took you to church a letter expressing your thankfulness to them.

Hi IserveIam, Very good topic to be discussed. Now God has written details in His word and I believe the Holy Spirit, at this time, is clarifying more truth, to bring the Body of Christ to the complete knowledge of the Lord, His character and His purposes. (Eph. 4: 13) I agree with much of what you say - - Jesus ascended to the Father. - God desires to bring many sons to glory, being partakers of the divine nature. - to sit with Jesus on His throne, ruling and reigning with Him. I have been taught this as has many others. It is just that now is the timing for this particular truth to spread across the Body of Christ, as all the previous truths of the Lord have in the past. It is timely for the Body to come to the fullness of truth concerning the Lord and His purpose for the Body of Christ. Then you go on and add this statement, which I believe is in error.` To sum it up in one sentence, God is calling His born again children into His Godhead. ` Now the GodHead comprises of - -His Divine Nature, (the source) -His abilities, - omnipresent, omnipotent, & omniscient. The Body of Christ will have the Divine nature, as through the Lord, BUT WE will NOT have the capabilities of (omni...) all present, all power, & all knowing. The throne/authority that the Lord is talking about is in the highest of the created order, the third heaven. There the Lord in His glorified body, will be given that authority by the Father, because of His sacrifice and overcoming the enemy. He is the Kingpriest over the whole order of kingpriests, who will rule from that realm. As deity the Lord is also in the Godhead `far above all...` This authority is beyond all created realms. (Eph. 1: 20 - 23) Each realm must come under the direct rule of the Lord, visible rulership, the wondrous, glorified Son of Man, in the heavens ruling, bringing all into harmony, unity and fellowship with God. regards, Marilyn.

Revelation 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he strikes a man. Since our move ... continue reading The post Call the Exterminator! appeared first on Worthy Christian Devotional - Daily Devotions. Read the entire devotional.

I stopped attending Church when i left the catholic religion.. I read the Bible and could not attend or be a catholic anymore because catholicism is not Christian.. I never did find a Church that is in 100% alignment with the Word of God so i never joined any other denomination.. I attend a number of internet sites like Worthy and that's where i get my fellowship and witnessing opportunities.. I do not allow my relationships with fellow faulty human beings to get in the way with my relationship with my Perfect LORD Jesus Christ.. I observe way to many people pointing to the faultiness of other people for their giving up on God.. We can be despised and hated by all the world around us.. Shunned and rejected.. But that will never justify anyone in walking away from God.. If the world is against you then make like Noah and keep following God..

That is what I think it means also: escaping what Jesus said was coming in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 - all a part of the same discourse. We will spend the 7 years in heaven.

I wasnt necessarily accusing anyone, just making an observation, and that is we do still struggle with our sin nature, and that we need to recognize so does everyone else. Even in your statement here, see there is no difference, at all, between wanting people to treat you right and expecting perfection from others. Both are centered around a "me" perspective. And im not saying that to point fingers or accuse, wanting to be trrated right and feeling like you belong are part of being human. Theyre fundamental human needs, everyone wants to feel loved, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. What we often do though, is go about getting it wrong. And i dont know the ops story, i dont know yours, but i can say from people i do know and observed, as well as from my own personal experience is that we as humans often times go about it all wrong. We go into a church expecting our needs to be met, and then we seek to fill others once ours are met. And often, that doesn't work because everyone else is following the exact same principle, and what ends up happening is no ones needs get met. Instead, we should follow Jesus example, and go in and put others needs ahead of our own, even in place of our own, with no expectation of getting anything in return. Even if it means forgiving the unloving and those who hurt you over and over. Put ourselves aside. If everyone did that, then everyones needs would be met. It often, in fact it almost always, takes a lot of time, prayer, and hard work, and unfortunately to many people dont want to-nor even know how to, but its the only way for a church to properly function.

Still looking for more poll votes, if that is not too much to ask!

God is Light. In Him is no darkness. His word is true. Our understanding of it is often incorrect. God is Holy. I personally believe (at this moment/time) I will meet Him on my face, in the dirt, trembling, with no thoughts of sitting anywhere near the throne, yet safe in my eternal abode. That's because I realize, God knows me, as I know me. The least of the least. God is Holy......

It's been almost a year since I left my church (the full story isn't important now, just that my trust and self-confidence was shattered by people I considered to be friends, mentors and Christian giants.) In my never-ending fight with mental illness, this year hasn't been a good one. On top of depression I've basically developed agoraphobia and a fear of making any sort of relationships. I haunt my house and can barely work up the courage to go out to the store, never mind attempt to go to a strange church. I signed up for a program at a Christian university but pulled out the week before classes started. The worst part is, it's not just my trust in people that's broken. It's my trust in God also. I struggle with resentment of Him for what happened as well as for the issues in my own brain. I've been suicidal a lot this year, not actually hurting myself but wishing more than anything to die. I've even prayed for it, and when I find myself still alive my resentment of God only grows. I haven't been on "speaking terms" with Him in quite a while. This has spiralled into something bigger and deeper than it ever should have been and I'm afraid of where it will end up, but I don't know how to change things. How does one rebuild trust that's been broken and learn to hope and connect again?

Hello, Sanctum my brother in Christ. I am happy this has passed. You spoke of a incident at church. I can only guess at the severity of what this means. Trust is very difficult to get back. When you find it again it will be a different animal from what you had before. If you know someone who has suicidal thoughts get help immediately. Call the police right away if you have to. My heart ached for your situation. We are with you in spirit.

Hi and welcome, Interesting presentation and good subject to study thanks It led me to go back into archives of sermons this day and for that I give thanks to God for your post I do question the idea presented that churches in the west do not teach Bible. Specifically I offer a link to sermons that do teach, and teaches on Revelation including revelation 3:21 http://lakesidechapel.com/sermons?book=Revelation&by=book . You will have to seek out Rev. 3:21 within the many hours of recorded sermon on the book of Revelation, once you do that you will find Rev 3:21 is discussed. I do think it is a serious error to make a statement that declares "the church" or in this case "the western church" does or does not do this or that. Many individual elders and pastors do teach and teach well out of all of the Bible. I am in awe of what God provides in the manner of teachers, those that do have capacity and are led by the Holy Spirit having been given special high spiritual gift to teach and have accepted the responsibility that comes with the privilege, then makes time to study to even, becoming scholars aware of original languages and are able to make transliteration a serious part of their teaching of others. I do not find a deficiency in teaching nor in teachers. I find an abundance so vast, so full, so deep, that I cannot take in all that is taught with the leading of the Holy Spirit. I praise God for the thrill of being exposed to the many teachers so gifted of the Holy Spirit.

I would recommend the Epistles of Paul. That is where we find the Gospel of Grace. Nowhere else is that Gospel proclaimed. But first we must witness verbally to them and pray with them, I think.

You are welcome One Direction. It is great that we can pray for one another. Will keep praying.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, Alan, I used to be where you are in your eschatological understanding. For thirty years I taught the classic pre-trib model for the rapture alongside classic dispensationalism. From what I have read of your posts, that is your position. Like I once did, you appear to hold these positions to be fundamental and orthodox, and see any deviation from classic pretribulational dispensationalism as unbiblical. Dispensationalism was the system of understanding that guided my initial instruction in the Holy Scriptures. Throughout my early years, all of the Word of God was viewed through the pre-trib dispensational lens so it colored my understanding in nearly every area of Scriptural study. However, a few years ago God began to open my eyes to the consistent and clear teaching of the Prophets, Jesus and the Apostles that there is only one future parousia (arrival and continuing presence) of our Lord Jesus Christ, and it is at His initial arrival that we are gathered to Him in the clouds and taken to stand before the throne of God in Heaven before His wrath falls upon the unbelieving earth dwellers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making a blanket repudiation of all the tenants of pretribulationism or dispensationalism. There are many truths to be found in those two connected systems. Let me name a few. Maybe the most important is a "literal hermeneutic" which stands against an allegorical interpretation of the Holy Scriptures. Scriptures should be interpreted literally unless the context shows that the author was using a metaphor, allegory, or one of the many other grammatical devices available. Another truth properly understood is the fact that the church will not experience the wrath of God when it is poured out upon the unbelieving earthdwellers at the end of the age. Pre-trib rightly understands that we are kept from God's wrath as opposed to being kept through God's wrath as the post-tribbers teach. However, there is much false assumption, circular reasoning, and error in pretribulational dispensationalism as it is classically taught. In the past I was a strong advocate of pretribulational dispensationalism and even considered myself to be a master of the subject; I'm quite certain that there isn't much in the way of evidence that I haven't seen. So, I believe I am more than qualified to point out the problems and scriptural conflicts with that system. I'll will start with the proposition that you make in your first sentence above, "that the church has to go before the antichrist can come". That is the argument of dispensationalism as systematized by J.N. Darby. That God doesn't work with Israel while the church is around is a proposition that is easily refuted. First, we know that church (the believing Jew and believing Gentile in one body [Christ], which was so well explained by Paul as recorded in Eph 2:11-3:12) began at the giving of the promise of the Father (the Holy Spirit to dwell in the believer) on Pentecost. Some have other ideas concerning when it began, however, none of them change the fact that at the beginning the church was made up of Jews. It wasn't until years later that Peter saw salvation come to Cornelius's household, being the first gentile converts of record. (Some will protest that the Ethiopian eunuch is the first Gentile added to the body of Christ. It makes little difference concerning the point I'm making.) Fact 1) The church started out with Jews exclusively. The church didn't begin with Gentiles it began with Jews. God has never stopped dealing with the Jews. It is true, that as a nation they have rejected their Messiah and that they, in part, have been forensically blinded. But, God is still saving Jews. In fact, Paul tells us that God is provoking them to jealousy through the salvation of the Gentiles who believe upon Christ. So, God is active spiritually with a remnant of believing Jews. He has also been dealing with them in other ways. The destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD was a fulfillment of the judgement due them because they didn't recognize the arrival of their Messiah (Luke 19:42-44). God's hand is still active in working out the fulfillment of the promises made to the Fathers (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Rom 11:28)) which surely involves the restoration of the Jews to their land, even though they remain in unbelief. Nearly all pre-tribbers believe that God's hand was in the restoration of the nation of Israel in this last century. Daniel 12:1 makes it clear that Michael has been active in the preservation of the Israelite people all these centuries that they have been scattered to the four winds, and the same passage lets us know that at some future point he (Michael) will stand aside at which time there will be unprecedented persecution upon them. Fact 2) God is still working with the Jews during this church age even though many of them, through unbelief, have been blinded. Paul tells us explicitly that there will come a day when Israel will no longer be under this forensic blindness. That day is when the last gentile is added to the Body of Christ (fullness of the Gentiles be come in, Rom 11:25-26). When these remaining Jews see the glorified Christ, when they look upon Him whom they had pierced, they shall believe and turn to Christ as a nation, and He will be their strong Saviour. However, Zechariah tells us that two thirds of the inhabitants of Israel will be killed first and the remainder refined in the fire. But after this all Israel will be saved, all of them will eventually follow Christ. This time of unprecedented persecution which makes them ready to receive Jesus, Jeremiah called "Jacob's trouble." Dan 12:1 identifies it as an unprecedented time of persecution (trouble) upon God's people. Jesus called it great tribulation (thlipsis=persecution), that is unprecedented violent persecution upon the elect for Christ's name sake (Matt 24:9-24). Jesus makes it clear that this unparalleled persecution is upon those who follow Him, the elect (Matt 24:9, 22, 24). The word elect is used many times in the New Testament and to whom it refers is determined by the context. Paul in speaking to the believers in Rome (Jew and Gentile) says "Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth."(Rom 8:33) Throughout the New Testament the primary use of the word elect refers to believers in Christ. This includes both believing Jews and believing Gentiles who make up the Body of Christ, the church. In Romans 11:7 Paul distinguishes Israel, which believed not, from the elect which believed. "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded." Even though Israel is elect in the sense that God chose them from among all other nations to be a people to bear His name, it is only those who believed among that nation who are truly the elect. It is also true that God having removed the unbelieving natural branches from the root (the fathers to whom the promises were made), graffed in among the believing branches of Israel branches from the wild olive tree. These branches from the wild olive tree are Gentiles who have responded to the gospel and have been placed into Christ by the Holy Spirit. The promises of the new covenant are through the root to the branches both Jew and Gentile believers. Today the elect are those who are in Christ. Fact 3) The elect are believing Jews and believing Gentiles in the body of Christ. The word elect is used 3 times in Matthew 24, each time it refers to believers in Jesus Christ. We see the nature of those who are violently persecuted in verse 9, where we read "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake." It is for Christ's name sake that these are being persecuted. These persecuted saints are Christians. Careful attention to the spatial language and connecting adverbs used by Christ as recorded in Matthew 24 will make it clear that in verse 9 He begins to speak of the period of unprecedented persecution and continues to refer to aspects of it until verse 29. In verse 15 Jesus gives further details concerning the persecution He began to speak of in verse 9. We know this by the use of "therefore" in verse 15. He says the unprecedented persecution begins when the rebuilt temple is defiled (abomination of desolation) in the middle of the week (Dan 9:27) by the revelation of the man of sin (the Beast) (2Thes 2:3-4). He says to the inhabitants of Judaea that when they see that happen, to flee. Most prophetic statements of the Scriptures are centered around Jerusalem in Judaea, so we would expect Christ's warnings to be centered there. However, Rev 13 makes it clear that this persecution will be world-wide. Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: Jesus further describes the severity and scope of this persecution saying that it is unprecedented. It is here that the familiar name "great tribulation" is given this period of persecution of the saints. The Greek word translated tribulation is "thlipsis." It is the same word that is translated afflicted in verse 9. It means pressure, and, in this context, it refers to the crushing weight of violent persecution. Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. He says that it is so violent that it will threaten to extinguish every believer form off the earth. To save some of the elect (believers) alive upon the earth He says those days are cut short. We should note that this is the first use of the word elect in the account. We see that it is the elect who are being killed in the unparalleled persecution. Remember, from verse 9, those that are being persecuted unto death are persecuted for the name of Christ. These elect are not unbelieving Israel, they are us, the saints of God, the church. Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. Again, Jesus warns of false Christs, and the lying wonders that they will use to deceive those who profess Christ. He says the deception will be so great that if it were possible even the true believer (the very elect) would be deceived. This is the second use of elect in the text. Here Jesus implies that the true elect cannot be deceived by the signs and wonders done by the false prophet. However, unbelieving Israel is still in blindness because the fullness of the Gentiles is not yet come in. Rev 7:9-17 describes an innumerable multitude of primarily gentiles that came out of great tribulation. These are said to be saved just as we are, in the blood of the Lamb. If God is still calling out a people for His name from among the Gentiles during the great tribulation than Israel still remains forensically blinded (Rom 11:25). Therefore, the elect, who cannot be deceived, must be the Church. Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. The age-old adage is, "to be forewarned is to be forearmed". With these warnings Christ has armed us against deception, specifically that deception related to His arrival at His parousia. He says that His coming (parousia) will be unmistakable, as unmistakable as the smell of the dead to carrion eating birds. Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before. Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Jesus then tells us what event signals that the unprecedented persecution is over. It is an identifiable cosmic sign, the very sign that Joel and other prophets said would precede the day of the Lord. Following the cosmic sign, the whole world will see the wonder of Christ in the atmospheric heaven as He comes with His holy angels. The earth dwellers will mourn in fear, having been caught unawares, like a thief in the night catches the unsuspecting home dweller. He will then send His angels to gather His elect, the persecuted, to Him in the clouds. Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Notice that there was not a single mention by Christ of God's wrath in these verses. However, there is much detail concerning the unprecedented persecution of the elect called great tribulation. Fact 4) The elect of Matthew 24 are Christians. They are the last generation of the church prior to Christ's return. Fact 5) The great tribulation is not the wrath of God, it is the wrath of Satan, through the Beast upon the elect. This post is already too long, so I will stop here. It is my desire Alan, that you grasp these truths and come to look for the Saviour's return with true understanding. There are many beliefs effected by these few corrections that will no doubt need to be modified to remain faithful to the Holy Scriptures. Let the Word be true and every man a liar. All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lord Jesus Christ

That's very beautiful, Zoltan. Love the last line especially.

Damascus As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” Acts 9.

To what city was Saul traveling when he encountered a great and blinding light?

Hi OneDirection I am glad you took the time to share here at Worthy. I know that in any given group situation, I've the the are more than two people involved in a conversation, that you will get more and more opinions. As such, I have been hesitant to comment. I have often found that difficult circumstances often end up changing me. I think of some of the times that I have grown the most and can point back to difficult times. I know that being in a difficult situation is not easy, but one thing I am so grateful for, is that we don't have to face the situation alone. We have a friend who sticks closer than a brother. I will keep you and your wife in prayer. I pray for strength for each day for both of you. One thing that came to mind as I thought about writing was to write down and recall happy memories and moments that made your wife stand out to you. And if writing is not something that comes easily to you, I totally understand that too. I just find that when my attitude changes, that often times my approach changes too. I feel for your pain, and like I said, I know you have had a lot of input. So what I share is just that, sharing from my own experience. God bless.

hi... i just want to give you a little something... don't know how much this will help you though... i too struggled with my faith in God a few months ago... a question of something he said to me not coming true... well, what got me through it was my decision to show God my love for him no matter my situation... to obey him still, despite of what i was feeling... and in the end, because God is faithful, he himself has settled the questions in my heart, and has reassured me of his promises...

@Sanctum I have experience with a lot of your problems and I have provided advice for each of your problems below: Trust in people*: There are bad people but there are still good Christian people - just say to yourself "there are good and bad people". Look out for the Christian's that you can see are genuinely loving and just be yourself with them, don't try (not saying you were) and put on act with them, just relax it is ok to be un-confident with them as they care for you and will boost you up. If you want to be confident for other people then all you have to do is believe that you are confident - write this in the top corner of your mirror with a thin tip black marker pen so you can see it when you look at yourself: "Look who Jesus loves" and then draw a heart round it, look at yourself and this every morning and smile. Try your best to smile - science says this does wonders for you physiologically. Mental illness: Suicide: Please, please do not do that. Please, this season will pass and you will be happy again. It is a very saddening thing for you Dad (Abba Father) to see you like that - just know this is how much He loves you and that He collects your tears in a bottle that He keeps in a sacred place. He cries with you and is always with you no matter what: This verse WILL come into being in time; Depression: Get a little notebook or a bit of paper and write down things that made you happy in a very short sentence so that you can remember them e.g. a nice sugary cup of tea that you had at home or a music track that you enjoyed. Write an ordered list of the things that pick you up e.g. having a cup of tea, putting your slippers on, eating chocolate. I have done other posts on mental health so please look for them on Worthy Forums. Fear of relationships* (the same as the trust in people section above): Think of someone that you trust the most (even if that is a little), speak to them and try and trust them. Sometimes you can actually turn fear into excitement - you can switch it in your mind sometimes and it feels amazing when you do. Keep getting support on this forum. Church and the store: Is there someone who you trust (e.g. family) who you can go to the store with? Online shopping if you have to. Watch sermons online - Joyce Meyer is amazing and will bless you through this time. Forget that course for now, you are struggling atm. Other general advice: Drink lots of water throughout the day - 8 cups. Dwell in the Word daily for 10min then use mind-fullness (research this) for 5 minutes and then a read non-fictional book (maybe read just two pages out of a selection of books - easy and fun) that give understanding for 5min session. That is 20 minutes, that is possible. Trust in Jesus: Trust is faith and faith is Jesus and Jesus is the Word and the Word is your bible. Read your bible but find one that you enjoy - the Message version is great fun and good, and the ESV (English Standard Version) is far easier than the King James and still holds the truth perfectly. That will get your trust back up. Please put your original post that you made on this thread on the prayer forum part of Worthy Forums. I have prayed for you too. Shalom

Always remember that the Lord didn't fail you....people did. I would start to pray again remembering that God is your loving heavenly Father, and that He will get you through this eventually. I would also forgive the people that caused your hurts, as the Lord taught us to forgive. You don't want unforgiveness holding you back. About the Agoraphobia, is there at least one caring or kind person that would be able to take baby steps with you? That is, willing to walk with you for very short distances...that wouldn't take too much time. Then eventually, you can build up to walking a little farther each time. If you don't have any kind person to walk with you, then just try walking very, very short distances outside to get yourself used to being outside again. Love you!

Rom 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? Rom 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Rom 8:33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Rom 8:34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? Rom 8:36 As it is written, "For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered." Rom 8:37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. Rom 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

"Jesus is praying for you" - that hit me hard. I know you are right, and by pushing Him away I am separating myself from my only help. He's the only friend that we can count on 100% and He must be hurting that I'm blaming Him for this whole mess.

Most of us go through a time when we are rejected by friends and mentors. At least I did. God wanted me to depend on Him and not them. Satan may even have been behind it since his tactic is to divide and conquer, but God meant it for good. I do know that satan is behind dividing you from God. So he is the one you should be angry at, not God. To be a mature Christian we need to be independent of others but totally dependent on God. That is what faith is--being dependent on and relying on God. That is what it means to believe. Jesus is praying for you.

One of the things that I hoped, when I started the Bible club, was that it would be an instrument to help people read the Bible more consistently. I think it has done that, but nor exactly for a huge number of people. however, I did not start out to, nor do I now, worry about the numbers, so I guess it is a success on that front. A second thing I had hoped, was that it would be a vehicle, where people could share their thoughts about what they read, and ask questions also. Some have done that, again, not a huge number, but I suppose that is to be expected, since the member number is small, and only a small percentage of people are vocal and confident, and unconcerned about what others will think of them. So this is also okay. The third thing that concerned me when I started this club, was that it would become a hotbed of controversy and debate. Considering again, the low participation, I suppose that debate would be minimal. However, and this is what I wanted to thank you all about . . . you who post here in the club deserve to be recognized for you good behaviors. No one has been obnoxious or mean, nor stirred up contentions. Thank you all for that! We are now (as I am writing this) entering into the Thessalonian letters. I admit, that eschatology is a bit of a hobby horse for me. I may make some comments on things that touch on eschatology (the study of the last things or end times) and some of the things I say, may not agree with what you have heard or what you believe. Don't let that bother you. Feel free to comment if you wish, in agreement or disagreement, of no opinion, or to ask questions. There is no reason to be shy or nervous, or upset about such things. It need not be emotional at all in terms of how we feel toward one another or about the topic. We can share, exchange information or viewpoints without fighting over them, and that is what I expect from all of us if it even comes up at all. I am confident in you enough that I can thank you in advance for your exemplary behaviors.

Hi George. Last night I posted two nice, new videos and just looked for them. They have disappeared....does this mean they were deleted? The videos were not offensive and they were under five minutes long. Both were acts from America's Got Talent. One was an acrobatic/dance group called Zurcaroh which consists of adults and children....very amazing acrobatics. They placed second in the competition. The other video was of Opera singer, Michael Emmet, who sang the song "Somewhere" in English....very beautiful voice. Thanks for clarifying this, Debbie