Pre trib rapture is fake

[SINNERSAVED]

56 minutes ago, OakWood said:

Was Job raptured so that he would escape the torments of Satan?

Were Christians raptured so that they would escape being thrown to the lions during the time of Nero?

Are thousands of Christians in the Middle East being raptured so as to escape the persecutions, beheadings and torture of ISIS?

By the way, pre-Trib is not the same as pre-wrath.

The Tribulation is not the wrath of God, it is the wrath of evil, the wrath of the Beast. All the examples that you gave above were judgements made by the Almighty. The suffering of the Great Tribulation will be caused by the evil that the antiChrist performs when he persecutes the righteous.

Christians will escape the wrath of God, that does not necessarily mean that they will escape the anguish of the Tribulation!

 

 

Well stated, this was a great example of what is trying to be said through out this whole thread, and all the others on this belief, for the fight to be right in a case will blind the one that are not with scripture ,but yet it is scripture that tells us the truth and the spirit that guides, some times its a time of meditating on what the spirit of God tells us through the stories and examples of the past,

 and now today in our time, we are so full of knowledge and wisdom, but is it wisdom of God, or men ?

for scripture and the word gives us the sight to look at but then it is our hearts and minds that need help, from the helper,

 the spirit leads where we need to be ,If we are open and humble to the call, for the God almighty takes the wise , by the simple, and the simple may seem to be weak, but in our weakness, it is God that we are leaning on for strength and with that strength , we are able to reach who is needed to be reach, by the ways of God, for we all like vessels unto the lord, are used to bring the good news and to show love and compassion, and to show it in kindness and gentleness,

 we do not get caught up in the pride and boast, for God was our example, and now we follow the steps of Him,

 glory and power and honor to the lord our God, and the holy one that has done the work on the cross and have called His people from

out of the world, to be a witness to the light , that SHINES IN THE DARK AND EVIL WORLD , SO let your light shine so others  may find there way , keep your lamps filled with oil and stay on the path of the straight and narrow, for this is where many think what they think and it will not be, for it was there thoughts , and not the lords will ,to be on the right path , of humility and sorrows , to get through the hard and rough way , into the kingdom.

[Sister]

Quote

 

You know SinnerSaved, you oppose the truth at every turn, and accuse others of being unscriptural.  Well, people who know better understand that you are on this forum to sow seeds of confusion and false doctrine.

You have swarmed Worthy Forums with your threads (probably the maximum number of threads by anyone) but contributed little or nothing to a proper understanding of Bible truth.

 

Ezra

You are not speaking on behalf of me I hope?  I look forward to SINNERSAVED'S post's.  I think that was a really rude and un-brotherly type of thing to say. If you personally see him as lost, then do what you are supposed to do and defend with scripture, not with spite.  I don't see spite as a good quality, in fact I see it as a type of jealousy.  He prays to the same God as you do, and he is your brother, so love your brother, because if we don't love our brothers, we won't even take part in the first resurrection.  Christ is not taking in such types.  You should know that, and all this hot air will have to be accounted for.

SINNERSAVED,

God bless you for the courage you show.  I think you have contributed so much on here and look forward to your posts.  At least you are not carrying on about politics, but God's Word, and that we can never get enough of.

[MorningGlory]

15 minutes ago, Sister said:

Ezra

You are not speaking on behalf of me I hope?  I look forward to SINNERSAVED'S post's.  I think that was a really rude and un-brotherly type of thing to say. If you personally see him as lost, then do what you are supposed to do and defend with scripture, not with spite.  I don't see spite as a good quality, in fact I see it as a type of jealousy.  He prays to the same God as you do, and he is your brother, so love your brother, because if we don't love our brothers, we won't even take part in the first resurrection.  Christ is not taking in such types.  You should know that, and all this hot air will have to be accounted for.

SINNERSAVED,

God bless you for the courage you show.  I think you have contributed so much on here and look forward to your posts.  At least you are not carrying on about politics, but God's Word, and that we can never get enough of.

Ezra IS speaking on behalf of me and few others.  SS only presents unscriptural views, as in the temporary hell thread, and in the form of a question no less. Almost like he/she doesn't read the Bible or understand it but wants others to explain it.  I am Pretrib and can see no value coming from these unending threads where unbiblical topics are introduced.  You can say and believe whatever you please and support the unscriptural writings but don't castigate another believer for disagreeing with your opinions or anyone else's.  It's not 'rude' to challenge that which is just wrong.

[Reinitin]

I believe the pan-trib rapture doctrine. The Lord has his plan and it will pan out according to His will. Whether He comes before the great trib in the middle or ends it He will lead guide and strengthen His flock. What is most important is being one of His and not be one of those who say "Lord Lord" and hear Him answer them, "I know you not".

[Ezra]

3 hours ago, Sister said:

Ezra

You are not speaking on behalf of me I hope?  I look forward to SINNERSAVED'S post's.  I think that was a really rude and un-brotherly type of thing to say.

Sister,

All you have to do is go to the thread on "Jesus magnified the law..." by SinnerSaved to see how many people are telling him that his doctrine is false.  False doctrine is not a light matter.

There are multiple threads which could be quoted to show that SS has a lot of weird doctrines, and I am doing him a kindness by rebuking that. Jesus said "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten".  Sometimes one has to be very blunt, and sometimes you post a lot a weird things also (and have been corrected by others).

MG, thanks for confirming what we have noticed, and frankly we cannot allow false teaching to go unchallenged.  I have shown on this thread that John 14:1-4 teaches a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, and been told by SS that that is "unscriptural"!

[Omegaman 3.0]

17 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

I believe the pan-trib rapture doctrine. The Lord has his plan and it will pan out according to His will. Whether He comes before the great trib in the middle or ends it He will lead guide and strengthen His flock. What is most important is being one of His and not be one of those who say "Lord Lord" and hear Him answer them, "I know you not".

Beginning of rant

While "pan-trib" is cute and was when the joke was already worn out over 30 years ago (when I became aware of it), I personally see it as dis-respectful. Of course we all have opinions, and that is just one of mine.

The reason I see it as I do, is that God has taken initiative to load up the Bible with hundreds of verses and passages about the timing and the sequence of end times events. In the New Testament in particular, there are scores of verses which give warnings not to be deceived, and particular signs to watch for as well as instructions to watch.

In light of all that, is seems to me, that being 'pan-trib' is way to relieve oneself of the responsibility to study and understand these things, a way of telling others, that we do not see God's word as important, at least on some topics. While I agree with people, who point out that it is not a salvational issue, I would guess that 99% of the Bible is not salvational either. If that is true, does that mean that 1% of the Bible is important, and the rest is not?

Salvation is critically important, to be sure, but that does not give us license to disregard the rest of the Bible or yawn at it's contents as though it does not matter. I would say pan-tribism is okay, to the degree that a person might not want to debate over the timing or sequences of Eschatological events, but no one, in my opinion, should give a shrug about the topic as though it is not important.

The rest of your post I agree with, but those who are apathetic, are more pathetic in my estimation. Please note that I realize that my response might be over-reactive in comparison with what you actually said, a lot of what I said is not directed at you specifically, but at 'pan-tribism' in general. The flippancy of the position, raises that hackles on my neck and send shivers down my spine, I cringe when I see Christians taking major parts of the Bible so casually.

While I have no respect for pan-tribism, I think for a person to have not come to an understanding yet, being an Eschatological agnostic, is fair, assuming that a person is still investigating the matter. I have been a Christian 37 years, and studying Eschatology for 36 of those, and I do not claim to know, nor do I think that I cannot change my mind. That is why I am still studying it.

End of rant

[simplejeff]

I think Reinitin has given better answers than most, including pantrib - 

many of the other tribbers have a lot mixed up.

Reinitin, as far as her testimony, is FULLY FOLLOWING JESUS.  That is the most important part of any true believer's testimony and overcoming sin.

A lot of other tribbers have said in their own words that they haven't , won't or can't DO ALL JESUS SAYS TO DO.

So her testimony far far outweighs theirs.

And, btw, leaves the answer/ solution/  WITH GOD, and not with man.

 

[Ezra]

13 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

While "pan-trib" is cute and was when the joke was already worn out over 30 years ago (when I became aware of it), I personally see it as dis-respectful. Of course we all have opinions, and that is just one of mine.

Fair enough.  It is one thing to say "X reasons why the pre-tribulation rapture is not in the Bible" and another thing to say "Pre trib rapture is fake" as though fakery is involved.

As far as some of us are concerned, there is sufficient scriptural evidence to prove that the Rapture is imminent, hence not related to the Tribulation or the Great Tribulation (and the trials and tribulations of the saints have no bearing on this subject).

[Omegaman 3.0]

2 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Fair enough.  It is one thing to say "X reasons why the pre-tribulation rapture is not in the Bible" and another thing to say "Pre trib rapture is fake" as though fakery is involved.

I would agree! While I personally do not believe the Bible presents sufficient evidence for me to conclude a pre-trib rapture, I would think that is is extremely rare where a person defending pre-trib rapture doctrine, is attempting to deceive  anyone. I am confident that almost always, my pre-trib brethren are sincere, and I endorse their passionate defense of what they believe to be true.

[OakWood]

2 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I would agree! While I personally do not believe the Bible presents sufficient evidence for me to conclude a pre-trib rapture, I would think that is is extremely rare where a person defending pre-trib rapture doctrine, is attempting to deceive  anyone. I am confident that almost always, my pre-trib brethren are sincere, and I endorse their passionate defense of what they believe to be true.

Well said. I'm a fence-sitter when it comes to pre-Trib and post-Trib. I've examined the evidence from both sides and still can't come to a conclusive decision, but I will point out what I may think are the flaws in somebody's arguments if I find any. I have found arguments for the pre-Trib that don't hold water in my opinion, but I have also found arguments for the pre-Trib that do. In that sense I'm a sort of pan-Tribber, or more accurately I'm a floating voter.