Pre trib rapture is fake

[hmbld]

15 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Christ's blood avails only for those who believe.  The Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are for those who do not believe. Judgements are for unbelievers. 

Thanks Ezra.  I keep reading and still have trouble separating rapture and second coming, and I know you all have discussed this so many times.  It just seems like so much to wrap my head around, I think I'll take a break and come back to try studying this some other time.  

[simplejeff]

5 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

So if one is not ready to die now for Christ

TODAY,  it is better to hear HIS VOICE, to be buried with HIM TODAY, 

to be crucified with HIM before the world was created((as written in GOD'S WORD)),

to ALREADY BE DEAD TO THE WORLD, TODAY, and the world dead to us, TODAY.

Then, being ready is a foregone conclusion, so to speak,

and we already DO TODAY ALL HE SAYS TO DO- DOers of HIS WORD and not hearers only.((tickled ears, hearers sitting on the couch living a couch life !!!))

8 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

We are to watch and be ready - Now.  That is all that is required of us after Salvation.

 

Yes, with ALL that JESUS said concerning the faithful servant or faithful son being ready --- taking care of the others, feeding and clothing and healing the sick and the disabled and the homeless ((brethren first, then 'strangers'))

i.e. active faith, true faith, living faith actively following JESUS wherever HE goes, doing as HE SAYS, as GOD'S WORD SAYS both OT and NT.....  example :  "is this not the fast I desire...."  and "lay down your lives for one another..." ((self-sacrifice is the way))

[Ezra]

54 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

I think its a form of brain washing. People are conditioned and its drilled into them what a scripture means. Then they read over it and can't even see what it says.

Why don't you give us an exposition of all the Scriptures pertaining to the Rapture, since you have not been brain-washed? Tell us exactly what those Scriptures say.  Why don't you show us exactly how and why the Church will come under judgements and wrath, after Christ has already taken away the judgements by His death, burial and resurrection?  Let's get real serious rather than talk about brainwashing.

[simplejeff]

It's even more simple:  the BLOOD OF YAHSHUA MESSIAH once for all 

is enough  ((but not able to save us from the church age- that's a choice, willfulness, or repentance))

5 hours ago, hmbld said:

Thank you, although this does not show any difference in why Christ's blood is not enough to save us from church age, but is enough to save us from The Great Tribulation, which is why all must be raptured prior to this Great Tribulation.  

to pay the penalty for sin, as Yahweh planned.

NOT to save us from suffering or tribulation, as Yahweh planned.

((Yahshua Promises ((gave HIS WORD))

that everyone who stands up for TRUTH WILL  necessarily suffer persecution on earth. ((and have and do TODAY)) ))

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, hmbld said:

Of course you think your opinion is correct, there is no fault in that!  lol.  But when you said  "The Pretrib Rapture is correct, to anyone who can see the truth in Scripture. ", it sounds a little stronger than an opinion that pretrib is correct.  I lack the understanding, and the study time, to form an opinion yet, and I am trying to understand the arguments and explanation of scripture put forth, but to state that anyone who disagrees with your opinion somehow means they can't see the truth in scripture really is not a sound argument.  

And you're welcome to your own thoughts on the matter, hmbld.

[Eha]

1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

all in the dark,

James 1:5 

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.

just adding how-to

[Reinitin]

47 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Why don't you give us an exposition of all the Scriptures pertaining to the Rapture, since you have not been brain-washed? Tell us exactly what those Scriptures say.  Why don't you show us exactly how and why the Church will come under judgements and wrath, after Christ has already taken away the judgements by His death, burial and resurrection?  Let's get real serious rather than talk about brainwashing.

Ezra Rapture isn't in the bible and people are brain washed. Bible calls it spiritually blind or sleeping. There are about 7 scriptures that make a logical argument for pre trib rapture, about 4 that make a logical argument mid trib and about 14 that make a logical argument for post trib. All three make the argument that supporting verses for the other doctrines are for Jews only, all admit a chosen few will preach the gospel through the great- tribulation. I would hope more people are more interested in the salvation of souls and the actual truth which is Christ is mans only hope for salvation at all. You have google and everyone here has internet. There are tons of websites that support the 3 positions and variations of the doctrine some teach about three returns of Christ, 3 resurrections and 3 judgments are required to fulfill all scripture. There are tons of websites that apose, opposing doctrines. There are even tons of websites that compare them and show opposing scripture that supposedly disputes the other position. Pick you poison Ezra its just a subject for people who like to fight to change minds instead of save souls or open hearts to Christ. God uses simple things to confound the wise.

Whether you believe in the rapture or not is not the important issue.  What is important is that people decide they need to be saved and call on Christ to be saved from the great tribulation that will come on this earth. If you haven’t already done so, then place your trust in Christ because “Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose trust is the LORD” (Jer 17:7) “For the scripture says, Whosoever believes on him shall not be put to shame” (Rom 10:11). Jesus is coming Back and everything that is not built in Christ is going to come to an end. the only life that will survive the destruction of the last war with Satan will be life planted by the Holy Spirit through Christ. We live 70 years a 100 sometimes But the work of the Lord is eternal. 

Anti-Christs and the wars between Ishmeal/esua and Issac/Jacob or cain and Able still haven't ended or the fight for the promised land. Men are always trying to mark men and make slaves of us. Nothing is new under the sun. One day our Lord will return for sure and if we are his we will be ready. All these things increase as man advanced technologies and weaponry and fight not only for control of people but control of the elements and creating new life forms with gene manipulation.  But, seriously Not one generation since our Lord left hasn't seen prophecy being fulfilled. Imagine how christians in Hitlers camps must of thought about being tattooed. The Lord has restrained the destruction so the truth can be seen in every generation and we can testify till the full numbers of gentiles comes in.

Yes, He will remove the restrainer and darkness will cover this earth. But until then we are called to be lights

 

[Reinitin]

1 hour ago, Eha said:

James 1:5 

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.

just adding how-to

I love that instruction with promise Eha:)

 

[Ezra]

21 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

Ezra Rapture isn't in the bible and people are brain washed.

Well that's your first mistake. The word "rapture" is derived from the Latin "rapiermur" which is the equivalent of "caught up together", which is the translation for the Greek harpagesometha.  Since this word is clearly in the Bible, you have to go back to square one. Please note below (1 Thess 4:17):

Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι, ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα [harpagesometha] ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ Κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτω πάντοτε σὺν Κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα.

King James Bible
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Latin Vulgate

Deinde nos, qui vivimus, qui relinquimur, simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Christo in aera, et sic semper cum Domino erimus.

[OakWood]

20 hours ago, RobertS said:

8 hours ago, hmbld said:

17 hours ago, Ezra said:

17 hours ago, Ezra said:

3 hours ago, Ezra said:

Christ's blood avails only for those who believe.  The Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are for those who do not believe. Judgements are for unbelievers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the last time Ezra, I've already told you the Tribulation is NOT a judgement. If it was a judgement then God would be punishing the righteous and rewarding the unrighteous. for it is those that DO NOT take the mark that suffer.

The judgement comes after the Tribulation. You are confusing God's judgements with the wrath of evil and you are twisting Biblical history to make your point.

Noah was delivered from God's judgement.

Lot was delivered from God's judgement.

Christians are guaranteed being delivered from the judgement of God, they are not guaranteed being delivered from persecution by evil.

Your arguments are unsound. What about Christians who are being persecuted by ISIS? Why are they not being 'raptured' or delivered from this? Why were Christians not delivered from the wrath of Nero?