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It seems this questions has been wrestled with over the centuries without any one position being able to win over an other, I feel certain it won't be settled here on Worthy. I will however make a statement of the position (in very little detail) that I have come to accepts as being most in line with what srritures says, without reading into is what "seems right". God chose those who would be His, from before the foundation of the world, plenty of passages say that. I am unaware of any passage that state in any clear terms, any basis upon which He made the chose, other than to say for His own good choice and purposes, His sovereign will. People are enemies of God, by nature, and no one seeks God (apart from His intervention). People are spiritually dead, blind, deaf, havvehardened hearts etc. God intervenes and opens eyes, allows some people to hear, gives them a heart of flesh - in other words people are spiritually dead and He grants some life - it is His work, not ours, and acto f grace alone, not works, lest anyone should boast. Do we have free will? Yes and no, dependa on how you look at it, and how you define it. God does know, what will happen, everything He foresees, comes to pass. If that is true, then He foresees that in advance of our existance, and it will happen exactly as He foresees it, it that sense, it is hard to argue for free will ultimatly. Additionally, everthing that exist, acts act wthin the limitations of it's own nature, this is true even of God Himself. In our sinful nature, we are not able to chose God, this is why He gives a new nature - we often refer that being born again. How does this work practically? Suppose we have a lion, and a horse, and we place in front of the lion, a plate of straw, and in front of the horse, I nice plate of raw meat. Could the lion eat the straw and could the horse eat the meat? Of course they could, they can move their heads in the right direction, grasp the food in front of them, chew it and swallow it. However it is not in the nature of the lion to want straw, nor the horse to desire meat. They have free will to do whichever they like, but because of their natures, they will ot choose the food placed in front of them in the above scenario. So it is with people our nature does not seek God, becuase our nature is oriented toward going out own way. If we were to be given a new nature, one that seeks the true God, one that desires to serve Him above all else, then we will make that choice. This is where we have both free will, but, are subject to Gods soveriegn act of freeing us from the bondage of out old nature. We love Him because He forst loved us. That is what I think I see, painted out as our situation in the scripture. Yes we choose, for some at least, He chose us to choose. Why? no idea. The amazing thing is that he chose any of us, none of us deserves it. Thank you Father for choosing me, thank you Spirit, for drawing me. Thank you Jesus for paying my way!

I believe that Scripture teaches that GOD knew before the creation of time that Satan would fall, that Adam and Eve would fall. That is why Scripture tells us that HE and HIS Son devised the plan for Christ to come to Earth to pay the blood ransom that GOD would require to redeem mankind. GOD did this to show the creation (including the heavenly realm,) his incomparable love and mercy. It has been postulated that when Satan rebelled, he accused GOD of not having "love nor mercy." GOD knew this would happen, in advance. Hence, the Plan. To say that GOD does not know everything is to limit HIS power and fundamentally flawed. To say that GOD chose not to save someone is to say that GOD is not truthful as Scripture tells us that HE desires all to be saved and that none should perish.

This is essentially what Scripture reveals. The Bible also reveals that if all would repent and believe, all would be saved, since the invitation is to "whosoever will" (Rev 22:17): And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

No one seeks God on his own, Psalm 14:2-3 The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand,[a] who seek after God. 3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one. But God calls us, John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." And I believe He calls everyone regardless of their IQ. Romans 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, nhave been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,7 in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. And I see a pattern in the bible of God seeking us out, even longing for us to come to Him, starting with the first two people, Genesis 3:9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?" As if anyone could hide from God! We may reject Him, but we are called. We may try to rely on emotions and lie to ourselves, saying that God did not choose me, yet that is incorrect. God did choose you, and everyone else, our responsibility is to respond, the mystery of free will is that we can respond either way, yet God desires us all to come. If anything could be hard for God, in my limited human knowledge I would think granting free will to people would be a hard decision to make. Because of free will I hear people blaming God, accusing Him even of sending people to hell. This free will, it is a mystery to me, for we can decide to choose God or not, yet even with free will we are dependent on Him drawing us, revealing Himself to us,

I believe Scripture teaches that the choice is ours to make, although GOD knew in advance how we would choose. HE put HIS salvation plan in the stars and in everyone's heart. Then HE gave us the power to choose for ourselves. Few have chosen the narrow path; most have chosen to go their own way.

Hmmmm Calvin vs Armenian. Again.

The ordinance of 'communion' was actually a Passover seder, when Jesus said to eat the bread and drink the wine in remembrance of Him. What was the 'bread'? Is was the Passover matza referred to as the afikomen. What was the wine? It was the third cup of wine during the Passover seder, referred to symbolically as the cup of redemption. Almost all of the Mosaic law feasts were to be done in remembrance of what God did for Israel. All of the feasts pointed to Jesus, and when Jesus fulfilled the spring feasts, He used the symbolism which illustrated what Jesus did for believers. The spring feasts are in remembrance of Jesus, so I do believe that Christians should experience the feasts, in light of Jesus and in remembrance of what Jesus did at least once. The next spring observance is the first fruits wave offering, which occurred on the same day of the resurrection of Jesus. Jesus is called the first fruits. On the day of the wave offering begins a count of 7 sabbaths, followed the next day by the Shavuot, or the feast of first fruits. & weeks of sabbaths is 49 days. The 50th day of the count is Shavout, or as Christianity calls it, pentecost. It is a day to remember the first harvest of believers, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, with the law written on their hearts. The fall feasts have not yet been fulfilled, as they will be fulfilled when Jesus returns. So, in reality, the church celebrates Passover in remembrance of Jesus , but it has been renamed from Passover to Good Friday. The church celebrates the first fruit wave offering but calls it Easter. The church celebrates Shavuot but calls it Pentecost. Unfortunately, the relationship of the days of remembrance of what Jesus did for us have been stripped of their original relationship to the Feast days as the council of Nicea wanted to strip Christianity of any relationship to Judaism and the Jewish people, so altered the calendar of these celebrations in Christianity so they would not coincide with the Jewish days, and altered the name and methods so they would no longer be recognizably Jewish. I believe it would help Christians to celebrate the spring feasts looking at them from both an OT as well as pointers to Jesus The following articles are English translations of the papers released by the 1st council of Nicea. Most are as you would expect, but some were decidedly anti-Jewish. I will quote one which alters the name and date of Easter to separate it from Judaism. (What I am quote mentions the Jewish people celebrating Passover twice. In the OT, those who were in a ritually unclean state at the time of Passover, were allowed to celebrate Passover, one month later according to the Mosaic law, so this article is ridiculing the Jewish people for following Gods commands ). https://legacy.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/nicea1.txt ON THE KEEPING OF EASTER. From the Letter of the Emperor to all those not present at the Council. (Found in Eusebius, Vita Const., Lib. iii., 18-20.) When the question relative to the sacred festival of Easter arose, it was universally thought that it would be convenient that all should keep the feast on one day; for what could be more beautiful and more desirable, than to see this festival, through which we receive the hope of immortality, celebrated by all with one accord, and in the same manner? It was declared to be particularly unworthy for this, the holiest of all festivals, to follow the custom[the calculation] of the Jews, who had soiled their hands with the most fearful of crimes, and whose minds were blinded. In rejecting their custom,(1) we may transmit to our descendants the legitimate mode of celebrating Easter, which we have observed from the time of the Saviour's Passion to the present day[according to the day of the week]. We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews, for the Saviour has shown us another way; our worship follows a more legitimate and more convenient course(the order of the days of the week); and consequently, in unanimously adopting this mode, we desire, dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews, for it is truly shameful for us to hear them boast that without their direction we could not keep this feast. How can they be in the right, they who, after the death of the Saviour, have no longer been led by reason but by wild violence, as their delusion may urge them? They do not possess the truth in this Easter question; for, in their blindness and repugnance to all improvements, they frequently celebrate two passovers in the same year. We could not imitate those who are openly in error. How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are most certainly blinded by error?

2 Timothy 2:23-24Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,Proverbs 15:1A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.Philippians 2:14Do all things without grumbling or questioning,Romans 12:19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”Titus 3:1-2 Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.Romans 14:19So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.1 Corinthians 13:1-13If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; ...Proverbs 3:30Do not contend with a man for no reason, when he has done you no harm.Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.Proverbs 26:4Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.James 3:17But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.1 Peter 2:21For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.James 3:9-12With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water.2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,Romans 12:17Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.Proverbs 18:1-2Whoever isolates himself seeks his own desire; he breaks out against all sound judgment. A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.Proverbs 29:22 A man of wrath stirs up strife, and one given to anger causes much transgression.John 18:36Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”Proverbs 29:11 A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.Proverbs 23:9 Do not speak in the hearing of a fool, for he will despise the good sense of your words.Philippians 2:14-16Do all things without grumbling or questioning, that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast to the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain.Proverbs 19:11 Good sense makes one slow to anger, and it is his glory to overlook an offense.Proverbs 10:8 The wise of heart will receive commandments, but a babbling fool will come to ruin.Romans 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. God Bless, Hip

HERE IS A QUESTION ? And IT IS ,IN THE TEXTED OF DID WE CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ,AND STUMBLE ON GOD, one day,BY A SITUATION, OR BY CHANCE OR BY SEEKING FOR HIM OUT OF THE BLUE ? OR DID HE CHOOSE US FROM THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE EARTH PRIOR TO US COMING TO HIM AS BELIEVERS ? IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT GOD ALREADY KNEW WHO WAS TO FOLLOW HIM AND WE JUST HAPPEN TO GET THERE? IS THE HOLY SPIRIT SEARCHING OUR BEINGS FROM THE INSIDE OUT TO KNOW WHO WILL COME TO GOD AND REPENT? its like what came first the egg or the chicken? have we always been about god through our spirit , and it was just a matter of time to abide and fully surrender to him, ? sorry about the caps, I am not yelling I just love caps, its a habit I am working on.

I agree. People ask for opinions, then when someone gives theirs, though scripturally sound, people feel the need to argue with them. Makes you not want to even get involved in the discussion. It's an opinion people, not a debate.

If we disqualify God's omniscience, then we deny the words written in the Bible. God says in Psalm 139 that He knew us before we were born and saw us before we were conceived in our mother's womb. He had our days numbered. If we deny that God knew what choices we would make before we were conceived and the eath was formed then we stop reading the Bible and live a life that pleases us. But IF we accept that He knew us and had our days numbered and KNEW the choices we would make before we were formed, then He knew who would accept Jesus and thus preordained or predestined us to be called His own, otherwise we are fools and serve no one but ourselves and are deluded. Freewill....ABSOLUTELY. But we serve a God who knows beginning from end and thus knows us better than we know ourselves and yes let's us do as we will...sin and ask forgiveness yet knows that we will choose Jesus and thus predestined us to be His.

Blessings,,,,,,, Oh dear,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,typical SINNERSAVED,I never meant to de-rail your thread & go off into any other topics,,,,,,,,you cannot make any simple statement without it being an excuse to debate,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,sorry my good friend,,,,,, Back on topic,,,,,,,,,,Your questions are most difficult to answer because until we are with Him in our glorious new bodies I don't think we are even able to begin to comprehend these great Mysteries of God Almighty ,,,,,,,we are presently so bound by space & time we cannot even imagine a realm that is eternal with no beginning & no end,,,,,,,,,,,,I do believe that God does know our past,present & future,,,,,,The Scriptures tell us He knows our thoughts (our prayers)before we even speak them,,,,,,,,,so yes,He knew our decisions before we make them as He knew what Adam & Eve would do in the Garden when the serpent tempted Eve,,,,,,,design flaw? NO,not at all,,,,,,,,,,,,God gave us "free will" that we would choose Him because we love Him,,,,,,,,,,,,,I say I'm not sure that My decision counts fgor much because before the foundations of the earth were laid,My Father knew I was His & would make that choice.........................that is how "I " feel about it ,not looking to debate & talk it to death,,,,,,,it is just how I feel,I think we are still entitled to feel how we feel without having to defend that or convince anyone else about it,are we not? Would love to stay but there's many other topics to look at that are not so argumentative,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thank you Brother,,,,,for giving us food for thought Love,Kwik

I'm curious why you wonder if Jesus has returned to earth already?

Blessings little flower That is not what I said,I never said He makes our decisions for us,,,,,,I said I am not sure it counts for much,that is looking at the bigger scheme of things,,,,,,,,, be blessed Love,Kwik

I know that God does know what we will choose & what we will not,,,,,,,,,,,so I am not so sure about how much of our "free will" counts for much? I think we are chosen,we are called out from the beginning of time...........it is all just a matter of time,,,,,lol,Praise the Lord! With love-in Christ,Kwik

Blessings Star_lord Welcome to Worthy,,,,,,,, No worries,when something goes bonky or whatever happens that needs be addressed here for repair ,unless it is something that is planned in advance then none of us are notified,it just gets fixed,,,,,,,,,,,,the last time we had a "planned" overhaul to make some changes we were all notified in an announcement made by George ,in a thread addressed to all of us,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,So don't feel slighted,be glad that when something needs fixin' it gets fixed! Be sure to look for announcements concerning our site,,,,,,,,George usually tries his best to keep us all up to speed when it is at all possible Praise & Glory to God! With love-in Christ,Kwik

It will certainly get get the world nowhere, but deader, faster.

Since 1 Tim 2:4 says God wants all to be saved, I take it that the choice is ours. I don't think God is sure exactly who would choose him otherwise there wouldn't be so much joy in heaven over one sinner that repents (Lk 15:10). It gives us hope that everyone has a chance to be saved.

To deny that the United States is at war with Radical Islam (since 1979) is a dereliction of duty. Obama, Hillary, Kerry, and a number of top ranking officials should have already been charged, prosecuted, and placed behind bars. And top ranking Republicans who have aided and abetted them should have also been prosecuted and locked up. This is similar to a fire department being informed that there is a fire and responding with the lackadaisical response, "No there is no fire, calm down".

I agree with you on this Rick.

Stuff happens! Sometimes things are planned and announced, sometime circumstances arise that either cause the site to go offline, or necessitate that issues be addressed. It cannot be helped. This is not like Google or other sites that have multiple mirror installations and servers, and a staff of thousands and a budget of millions to help them stay functional. Patience is called for sometimes.

There are some people not all, that God is bringing forth and they have a very specific role to play in his plan, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, jojeph, Moses, David, Samuel,and many others even from the Gentiles, that interacted with, and Jonh the Baptist, and Mother Mary, Peter, and so on. But he did not deprived them from their lives, they also leaved their lives, I think but one, Jonh the Baptist. God new that only through his Christ man can be resuracted from the dead and be one with him. There is no any other way, it is not possible. God new from the very begining, this was the only way, and he also new how it is going to happen. (the seed of the woman), He new that every one will hear the Gospel and be given the change to believe, no matter when they were born. That's why Jesus died for all,or there is only one way to the Father. God he also new that no every one will believe. Man decides for his own fate, there deferent forces that play a role in someones decision, but it is a fair and equal opportunity for everyone. The same intervasion of God to cause faith in someone,, can also cause unbelieve in someone else. God puts the good seed to lead to faith, and another one comes at a secret time and he puts another seed that will lead to unbelieve. The one comes and puts a seed of unbelieve, then God comes and he puts a seed to believe. Something happens, and causes people to come closer to God, and the same even causes people to go away from God. All forces work in all posible ways to persuade man, he is spiritual and phycical, and they work in both realms to persuade man. The Holy Spirit because of Jesus is working to help people to choose the way of Christ, and also we. We are the Holy Spirits helpers, when we put the seed in people about Jesus Christ, and at the same time the Holy Spirit is our guide and our helper, The Holy Spirit knows the enemy all the time, we need the help of the Holy Spirit who works with people when we are sleeping, or we are busy with something else. That's how i understand these matter today, tomorrow in the future it remains a mystery. Who can tell?

Isn't it great to be unhidden in the heart! I think most of what Jesus has done for me is that I can be free in the new me without worry what will others think... for no matter what they think I can in Him still love them

Try not to reveal too much about yourself here, enoob.

genuine feminine affection aaaaaah

Awwwww! You guys are too much, now! Hugs to you both - and FreeInChrist too

Can you show me where in the Bible it says God commands that I have more then 1 child? All this is is another way to judge someone. Oh you only have one child you must not have enough faith to have more. There are many many reason why people choice to have only one child and many reasons why people choice to have more. The truth be told there are some people who should never have children at all. But does that mean they are sinners? No it does not. God did not make us robots program to do everything the same way as everyone else. He made each of us different. And by the way. People from family planning did not encourage me to have a small family. That was what my husband and me decided was right for us.

Awww.....why thank you, kind sir!

She a jewel as so are you! Love, Steven

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLi6LCvoBxy8LtjHjK-ZT5YTCuQ25CuYYb&v=vosprI9WV3U

Hearttouching song, Angels. God Bless you. Your brother in Christ, KPaulG.

Yes there are many threads! God chose before creation He began yes. God first consideration was foreknowledge (undefined in Scripture). God throughout the Word requires men to choose. No one has put forth the absolute truth to any of this and all have discrepancies within the reasoning's... I believe because it, (salvation), is the center piece of all creation- thus it is firmly fixed within the very Heart of Our Lord and that is defined as exceeding us in all forms and fashions as we are here now! Love, Steven

I don't know that answer to this question. I've thought about it many times. God gave us free will, so we choose him I guess. However many would disagree with me..........

Thanks alien.

I believe the Episcopal Church USA is also involved with this.

Everything he says is true but not everybody probably agrees with what he is saying..

Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Thank you everyone for your support and prayers. God Bless You!

Please do not post questions to the forums and then dictate how people are allowed to answer.

I don't want an answer from you. As I said, I have come to know you by your fruits since you have been here. I will allow His Spirit to show me the truth of scripture, for His truth is in those who are His.

Fiesta And answering, Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying, “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man, a king, who made a wedding feast for his son. And sent his servants to call those having been invited to the wedding feast—and they were not willing to come. Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Say to those having been invited, “Behold, I prepared my dinner. My oxen and the fatlings have been killed, and all things are ready; come to the wedding feast.”’ And having paid no attention they went away, one to his own field, and one to his business. And the rest, having laid hold of his servants, mistreated and killed them. And the king was angry, and having sent his armies, he destroyed those murderers, and burned their city. Then he says to his servants, ‘Indeed the wedding feast is ready, but those having been invited were not worthy. Therefore go into the thoroughfares of the highways, and invite to the wedding feast as many as you shall find.’ And those servants, having gone out into the highways, brought together all, as many as they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall became full of those reclining. And the king having entered in to see those reclining, he beheld a man there not being dressed in wedding clothes. And he says to him, ‘Friend, how did you enter here not having a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. Then the king said to the servants, ‘Having bound his hands and feet, cast him out into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of the teeth.’ For many are called, but few chosen.” Matthew 22:1-14 (Berean Literal Bible) Day Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Revelation 3:17-22

We, the Bride, comprised of born again Jews and Gentiles, are the Bride of Jesus. The New Jerusalem is adorned "LIKE". a bride going to her wedding coming down from heaven. Women adorn themselves with jewels and bejeweled gowns going to meet their bridegroom. That is how the New Jerusalem is described, but NEVER as the bride if Christ.

Thanks for posting a video, Joe. God Bless you. Your brother in Christ, KPaulG.

Yep, the administration would do well to keep away from the press with comments like that. Just do their strategy and and keep their mouths shut. People will see what's going on. But I do believe he has made a number of mistakes like this. Remember alkida being on the run and having it's days numbered? Really foolish statements coming from a Harvard man.

THAT AMAZING BOOK! by Terry Watkins President Ronald Reagan pointed to that Amazing Book and said: "Indeed, it is an indisputable fact that all the complex and horrendous questions confronting us at home and worldwide have their answer in that SINGLE BOOK." Napoleon said about that Amazing Book: ". . . is no mere book, but A LIVING CREATURE that conquers all that face it". Newsweek magazine, (Dec. 27, 1982), on it's cover wrote: about that Amazing Book "How one book unites us, divides us, and STILL DEFINES US". That Amazing Book is The Bible! And if you think the Bible is like any other book ever written - keep reading. When you finish this you'll know that book is amazing! But the Bible was written thousands of years ago. And we're heading into the 21st century! We've seen man go to the moon. We've seen mankind take great strides in conquering the hidden mysteries of the universe. The Bible was written thousands of years ago by men with such limited knowledge. With their limited knowledge, what could they possibly have known? I'm glad you asked... Luke 17:30: "Even thus shall it be IN THE DAY when the son of man is revealed. . . (vs 31) IN THAT DAY . . . (vs 34) I tell you, IN THAT NIGHT . . ." Nobody in Luke's day thought it could be day and night at the same time! They thought the earth was flat! Luke was written around 65 A.D. How did Luke know something that the scientists didn't know until the 16th century? Isaiah 40:22: "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE OF THE EARTH." How did Isaiah know in 700 B.C. the earth is round? The scientists of Isaiah's day thought the earth was flat. They didn't discover the earth is round until the early 1500s when Magellan sailed around the world. How did Isaiah know something over 2000 years ahead of science? Job 26:7: ". . . and hangeth the earth upon NOTHING." During the time of Job, it was believed a god named Atlas held the earth on his shoulders! Nobody believed the earth "hangeth upon NOTHING!" Job is the oldest book in the Bible! Written over 3500 years ago! How did Job know something that was IMPOSSIBLE to know during his day? Genesis 2:7: "And the Lord God formed man of the DUST OF THE GROUND, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul." Surely, you don't take Genesis 2:7 seriously? Do you? November 1982, Reader's Digest had an article titled How Life on Earth Began. It stated that according to scientists at NASA's Ames Research Center the ingredients needed to form a human being can be found IN CLAY. The article said, "The Biblical scenario for the creation of life turns out to be NOT FAR OFF THE MARK." (Reader's Digest, November, 1982 p.116) No, it's "not far off the mark" - it's right on it! Scientists have laughed at the possibility of Genesis having any scientific credibility whatsoever - and yet, the more we learn, the more we find it to be SCIENTIFICALLY CORRECT! Psalm 8:8: ". . . whatsoever passeth through the PATHS OF THE SEAS." After reading Psalm 8:8, Matthew Maury, a U.S. Naval officer, set out to locate these curious "paths in the seas." He discovered the oceans have paths which flow through them. He became known as the "pathfinder of the seas". How did David (the writer of Psalms) know, over 2,000 years ago, there were "paths in the seas"? David probably never even saw an ocean! HOW DID HE KNOW? Ecclesiastes 1:7: "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again." How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know the water cycle of condensation and evaporation? The sun evaporates water from the ocean, water vapor rises and becomes clouds. This water in the clouds falls back to the earth as rain, collects in rivers, and makes its way back to the ocean. This wasn't known until Galileo in 1630! How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know this in 1000 B.C.? 2500 YEARS AHEAD OF SCIENCE! Leviticus 15:13: "And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in RUNNING WATER." God said to wash the infected flesh in RUNNING WATER. Science didn't discover that until two men named Pasteur and Koch in the late 1800s. Doctors were washing their hands in a bowl of water and spreading the germs like wild fire. It wasn't until the invention of the microscope and the science of bacteriology that doctors started washing under RUNNING WATER. Leviticus was written around 1490 B.C. SCIENCE WAS ABOUT 3000 YEARS BEHIND! Isn't it embarrassing how science always lags about 2000 years behind that Amazing Book! Job 38:19: "Where is THE WAY where light dwelleth?" How come Job didn't say where is THE PLACE where light dwelleth? Because light is always moving. How did Job know something in 1500 B.C. that science didn't find out until Einstein? How can the men who wrote that Amazing Book, with their limited scientific knowledge - BE SO FAR AHEAD OF SCIENCE? Ecclesiastes 1:6: "The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again ACCORDING TO HIS CIRCUITS." How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know the wind traveled within circuits? How did he know something that the aerologists and meteorologists are just now discovering? THINK ABOUT IT! How can these men, with their limited knowledge thousands of years ago, be so far ahead of science? Proverbs 6:6-8: "Go to the ant. . . gathereth her food in the harvest." Life's Nature Library "The Insects" (p.163) commenting on Proverbs 6 reads, "One of the entomological puzzles of the last century concerned this observation by Solomon. There was no evidence that ants actually harvested grain. In 1871, however, a British naturalist showed that Solomon had been right after all. . ." How did Solomon know that in 1000 B.C.? How did Solomon CLEARLY, detail a scientific FACT, that was IMPOSSIBLE for him to know in 1000 B.C.? Proverbs 17:22: "A merry heart doeth good like a MEDICINE." An article in The Birmingham News, titled Laughter: Prescription for Health, said, the LATEST medical evidence reveals that, "At some point during laughter, your body issues A PRESCRIPTION from the pharmacy in your brain." How did the writer of Proverbs know that - 3000 YEARS AHEAD OF MEDICAL SCIENCE? Leviticus 17:11: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood." That's the most accurate, scientific statement ever written about the blood! It is the blood that carries on all the life processes of the body. It is the blood that causes growth, builds new cells, grows bone and flesh, stores fat, makes hair and nails. It is the blood that feeds and supports all the organs of the body. If the blood supply be cut off from an arm, that arm will immediately begin to die and rot. It is the blood that repairs the body. It is the blood that clots wounds, that grows new flesh, new skin and even new nerves. It is the blood that fights disease. When they give you a vaccine against a disease, they give you a shot into your blood stream. For thousands of years, doctors treated people by a practice called "bleeding." They thought illnesses could be cured by removing blood. In 1799, less than 200 years ago, George Washington was literally bled to death. They bled poor George four times, the last time they took over a quart of his blood! They didn't know, but they were literally draining away his life by removing his blood. It wasn't until the early 1900's that a man named Dr. Lister discovered that the blood provides the bodies immune system - THE LIFE OF THE FLESH IS IN THE BLOOD! The Birmingham Post Herald, February 26, 1988, told the story of Mike Thomas. Mike was working at a construction site when he fell 70 feet. As he was falling, a cable wrapped around his arm and severed his hand a few inches above the wrist. A fellow worker carried his severed hand to the hospital. Because of serious internal injuries, doctors couldn't at that time reattach Thomas's hand. Instead, they attached his hand to blood vessels on his abdomen wall to "keep it alive". Two months later, the doctors removed it from his abdomen and reattached it to his arm. According to the report, UAB was the first in the nation to perform such a task! Exactly what the Bible said in 1490 B.C.! Keep feeding that hand blood, and it'll stay alive - the LIFE of the FLESH is in the BLOOD! Don't you find that odd? What Moses wrote in 1490 B.C., the brightest minds man can produce, are just now discovering! How can that Amazing Book, written thousands of years ago, by men with such limited knowledge, be so far ahead the best mankind can produce in 6,000 years? To realize how Amazing that Book is; compare what the scientists taught when that Amazing Book was written. They believed lightning bolts were missiles from the gods. The Vedas (Hindu sacred book) taught, to get rain, tie a frog with his mouth open to a tree and repeat some magic words - and presto - rain! The Egyptians believed stars were the souls of dead people who were now gods. The Greeks believed a god named Atlas held the earth on his shoulders. Some taught the earth sat on the backs of several large (very large!) elephants. And the elephants were resting on the back of a large (very, very large!) turtle! And the turtle? He was resting on a large (very, very, very large!) snake! And the snake? Well, you get the picture. But, that Amazing Book, contains nothing so foolish! Despite what was taught and believed during the writers day! That Amazing Book says, "And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians. . ." (Acts 7:22). And yet, the "superstitions and mythology" of Egypt are not in the books written by Moses! In fact, after 6,000 years of "discoveries and advancements" - that Amazing Book, can stand beside the most advanced medical, scientific, and historical books available! One subject that separates that Amazing Book from any other book is prophecy. No other book forecasts the future as this one does. The prophecies are precise. Many times they're hundreds, even thousands of years in advance. And without exception - they are fulfilled - to the smallest detail! A prophecy in Ezekiel 26:1-6 reads: ". . . the word of the LORD came unto me, saying. . . Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee. . . And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock. It shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. . . " Three years later, Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon surrounded Tyrus. But before he came, the people of Tyre escaped to an island, a half-mile offshore. After thirteen years of siege, the Babylonians "broke down her walls" and "broke down her towers", destroying the city on the mainland. By that time, the escaped people had re-built the city of Tyre on the island. And because Nebuchadnezzar had no navy, the city on the island remained untouched. Even though Nebuchadnezzar, destroyed the city, he didn't fulfill Ezekiel's prophecy. But 250 years later, Alexander the Great took the rubble Nebuchadnezzar's destruction left, and they "scraped her dust", the wood, rock and stubble from the destroyed city, and they built a causeway, like "the top of a rock". They marched on the rubble-causeway, into the island and destroyed it. And if you travel to site of old Tyre today - you'll see fisherman "spreading their nets" to dry on what was Tyre! Exactly, as Ezekiel prophesied around 586 B.C.! Over 2500 years before it happened! There were over 300 prophecies fulfilled in the person of Jesus Christ. That Amazing Book has many that were written thousands of years before Jesus was born! Precise, detailed prophecies such as; where He would be born (Micah 5:2), how He would be born, (Isaiah 7:14) how He would die (Psalm 34:20), etc. And history has PROVEN, without ANY doubt whatsoever, they were fulfilled EXACTLY as that Amazing Book had prophesied, hundreds of years earlier! In the book, Science Speaks, mathematician and scientist, Peter Stoner, applies the rules of probability to these prophecies. The chances of just eight of these three-hundred prophecies being fulfilled are one in 10 to the 17th power - that's 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000! In the book, Professor Stoner, illustrates: Let us try to visualize this chance. . . Suppose that we take 10 to the 17th power silver dollars and lay them on the face of Texas. They will cover all of the state two feet deep. Now mark one of these silver dollars and stir the whole mass thoroughly. . . Blindfold a man and tell him. . . he must pick up one silver dollar . . . What chance would he have of getting the right one? Just the same chance that the prophets would have had of writing these eight prophecies and having them all come true in any one man. (Science Speaks, pp. 106 - 107) Professor Stoner, then took 48 of these over 300 fulfilled prophecies. The chances of 48 being fulfilled are 1 in 10 to the 157 power - that's 1 in 10 with 157 zeros! Here's how he illustrates: Let us try to visualize it. . . The electron is about as small an object as we know of. It is so small that it will take 2.5 x 10 to the 15th power of them laid side by side to make a line, single file, one inch long. If we were going to count the electrons in this line one inch long, and counted 250 each minute, and if we counted day and night, it would take us 19,000,000 years to count just the one-inch line of electrons. . . With this introduction, let us go back to our chance of 1 in 10 to the157th power. . . Let us make a solid ball of electrons, extending in all directions from the earth to the distance of six billion light-years (the distance that light will travel at 186,000 miles a second in 6,000,000,000 years). Have we used up our 10 to the 157th power electrons? No, we have made such a small hole in the mass that we cannot see it. Now, one of these electrons was marked and thoroughly stirred into the whole mass; blindfold your man and ask him to find the marked electron. (The electron, in fact, is so small that it cannot be seen with a powerful microscope.) To the extent, then, that we know this blindfolded man cannot pick out the marked electron, we know that the Bible is inspired. (Science Speaks, pp 109 - 111) And in case you think Professor Stoner's statistics are exaggerated or without scientific substance the "Foreword" of the book, Science Speaks includes an acknowledgement by the prestigious American Scientific Affiliation stating: "The mathematical analysis included is based upon principles of probability which are thoroughly sound and Professor Stoner has applied these principles in a proper and convincing way." Professor Stoner concludes, "This is not MERELY EVIDENCE. It is PROOF of the Bible's inspiration by God - PROOF DEFINITE that the universe is not large enough to hold the evidence." These are just a few examples (of thousands) that prove beyond any shadow of doubt that a supernatural hand, far greater than what you and I can possibly imagine, was guiding the men who wrote that Amazing Book. Friend, if the physical things that we can examine prove to be true - what about the spiritual that we can not yet examine? WHAT IF THEY ARE ALSO TRUE?

Matthew 24: (NASB95) 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24 “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 “Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 “So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27 “For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Acts 1: (NASB95) 9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. 11 They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.” Revelation 1: (NASB95) 7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.