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St. Paul writes to Timothy giving us a picture of how it will look just before the second coming of the Lord. He shares that people will be “unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good” (2 Timothy 3:3). In the end times there will be a great shift in how people live and act worldwide. Jesus spoke of children who will betray parents and how people will even want to put Christians to death (Matthew 24:9-10). But we see the root of the issue in the attitudes of human hearts, and committed believers in Jesus Christ are not excluded. Not having love, not forgiving, and speaking evil of other good believers will be just part of the coming spirit of anti-Christ in the world. Unforgiveness is a prison, a torturer. It will rob us of our joy, peace and even physical health. Jesus knew mankind and he knew that a great problem that many deal with is forgiving others. It is one of our Lord’s primary teachings and the apostles were very keen to this. Peter said to Jesus in answer to his question of forgiveness, seven times! He understood that Jesus said to be extravagant in our forgiveness of others, and the current teaching by rabbis in that day was to forgive three times and then seek revenge. Our Lord’s response showed the extent of how God forgives and how those who claim to follow him should forgive, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times” (Matthew 18:22). Do you find it hard to forgive other brothers and sisters in the Lord? Do you find it hard to love others in the body of Christ because of hurtful things that were done to you? Are you speaking evil of those brothers and sisters and judging them? It is very important that we are clear of all such sin and are full of love, forgiveness and using our mouths to show mercy and love to others in order to restore them (Galatians 5:1). Early believers lived in great anticipation of the coming of the Lord, and the thought of holding a grudge in unforgiveness with a believer and then entering eternity with this sin was unthinkable. In speaking about disputes, St. James writes, “Don’t grumble against one another” (James 5:9). The terrible reality to him was that the Judge was standing at the door, the Lord was coming back soon.

Steven, Thank you for your heart felt insight. I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Yes, few find the gate. I think that brings up another challenge that the lack of love sometimes exhibited in our churches create. We are to test the spirits (1 John 4:1) to know if they are of God or not. When people are not loving to others within the church is it a spiritual maturity issue, are they non believers "wolves in sheep's clothing," (Matthew 7:15,) etc. Then it becomes hard to distinguish who your true brothers and sisters in Christ are. I don't expect people to be perfect, we all make mistakes...even the most mature believers do. Desiring people to be authentic and loving (the greatest 2 commandments...God and others) is obviously of the utmost importance and I think that's a good expectation/standard to have. John 13:35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. You said in your above post, "When this relationship is what it should be we are complete in Him and are not dependent upon others in anyway in said completion." I don't think wanting others to be loving makes us dependent upon them. Desiring people to be loving is what God desires of them and us. Not liking what sin has done to the world (lack of peace, love, unity, etc.) should make all believers sad, as I am sure it does our Father. Hebrews 10:38 is a good reference to not give up. I don't plan on it! Galatians 6:9 is another good one... Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. Just because I "feel" like being a hermit doesn't mean I will, but honestly sometimes I want to. I was made for another world, this is not my home, and just thinking out loud I guess. Some things you said that I really liked is that the Holy spirit realigns motives is our hope, that our relationship with the Father/Jesus/Holy Spirit is priority, it will cost us a lot just like it did our Lord, and not to give up! Love in Christ, Gem

https://www.yahoo.com/news/old-bones-cast-light-goliaths-people-115416698.html?nhp=1

I'm sure this has been discussed many times but the few active discussions I saw went off topic with evolution and such so I decided to start a new thread. I have been reading different apologetic books and pondering an answer from an atheist perspective(which I am not). To start off I believe that C.S lewis explains best in that objective morality is not instinctual. His example goes like this: You see a man drowning, he's a stranger. Two instincts come up. The first being the "herd instinct" to save the man. The second is the "survival instinct" to keep yourself safe/alive. The second instinct is the stronger of the two but morality pushes you toward the weaker one. It tells you that you ought to save the man because it is "right". The other point he makes is that its more than just a "social convention" that its more than just what is taught to you and that if you can judge two different peoples morals and say one is better and the other lesser then you are implying there is a Real morality or a Real right independent of what people think. So my question is and I'm basing this off a question I was posed with is would we only lean closer to what "you" were taught? Does it surpass my understanding and learning? Is it objective? Before I submit this I want to say that I believe in an objective morality but I need help to further understand it before i even try to explain it to someone else. Anyone got an answer?

You say that Christ freed us from sin and yet at the same time you say that we cannot become sin free beings, and are doomed to be sinful the rest of our lives. Can you explain Biblically what this means?

I am compelled to go back to Job again. To study further. To ask, "what was it about Job?" What is significant about him? About Elihu? What is the lesson to learn? I have studied extensively and have had many questions answered about him, but the Lord brought me back again, to see what is relative to "today". What have I missed Lord? What did I not see about him, for you have taught me so much, but there is more. Job is presumably the first book of the Bible written. This is significant in itself I think. Here are my main questions to begin with. 1. What is "so significant" to learn about Job, as a person? 2. Why is Elihu "so significant"? 3. How does this Book relate/teach us regarding today's Christian? I hope others would go with me in this study? But if not, that's ok, I just am lead to share what I find as I go. In His Love, Suzanne

My daughter and son in law left the Episcopal church over the gay marriage issue along with over a million others. They are now Southern Baptist. It's happening all over.

Since the pope urged muslims and Christians to pray together this trend has been on the increase, especially in the Church of England, then in the big Episcopal ? church in WA DC, and now the Presbyterians. Believing Methodists have been leaving that denomination for years due to its liberal leaning. Watch it happen now in the Presbyterian Church. Apostate churches. And people as why there are so many churches and church splits. Sometimes it is best to leave than to sin.

It just stikes me odd that the resurrection of the dead and gathering would come at the sound of a Jewish trumpet, a religion that denies the Christ anyway. Learn something about trumpets Lamad... Trump, Trumpet: Transliteration salpigx is used (1) of the natural instrument, 1Cr 14:8; (2) of the supernatural accompaniment of Divine interpositions, (a) at Sinai, Hbr 12:19; (b) of the acts of angels at the Second Advent of Christ, Mat 24:31; (c) of their acts in the period of Divine judgments preceding this, Rev 8:2, 6, 13; 9:14; (d) of a summons to John to the presence of God, Rev 1:10; 4:1; _____________________________ Trump, Trumpet: Transliteration salpizō "to sound a trumpet" (salpinx), occurs in Mat 6:2; 1Cr 15:52, "the trumpet shall sound;" Rev 8:6-8, 10, 12, 13; 9:1, 13; 10:7; 11:15. 101 Verb Strong's Number: g4537 Greek: salpizo "to sound a trumpet," Mat 6:2; as in (2) (c) above, Rev 8:6-8, 10, 12, 13; 9:1, 13; 10:7; 11:15; as in (2) (e) 1Cr 15:52. (e) of the act of the Lord in raising from the dead the saints who have fallen asleep and changing the bodies of those who are living, at the Rapture of all to meet Him in the air, 1Cr 15:52, where "the last trump" is a military allusion, familiar to Greek readers, and has no connection with the series in Rev 8:6 to 11:15; there is a possible allusion to Num 10:2-6, with reference to the same event, 1Th 4:16, "the (lit., a) trump of God" (the absence of the article suggests the meaning "a trumpet such as is used in God's service"). There are seven trumpets in Revelation. All others are things that sound "as or like a trumpet." Pre-trib. Full of complications. Full of fabrications. Full of contradictions. And they don't care. They prefer to stay true to the false deceitful teaching than to the teachings of Jesus... Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. _______________________________________ (Matt. 13:30, 39. Mathew 24:31.) He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity. And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Morning Marilyn, Gods plan didn't change. His prophets spoke of it. The gentile nations grafted in to the Abrahamic promise was passed by Isaac when he laid his hand on his younger grand son to pass on the blessings of God. Genesis 48 I think? you study in hebrew right? blessing on ephram? full number of the gentiles? gentile nations? There are at least three prophetic witnesses to every biblical truth. The Gentile participation in the body of Christ was revealed first to Peter in a dream and confirmed by God in the giving of the Holy Spirit. Peter was baptising gentiles before paul ever recieves a revelation. Just because men can't see it doesn't mean God is not doing what he said. God has proclaimed that truth is confirmed by three witnesses. We even have three witness that confirm our salvation. The Blood, The Water and The Spirit. There are not three prophetic witnesses to a pretrib raptute. It Wasnt even thought of till about 1830. On a personal note. Are you sorry i thought it or sorry you wrote it? sincerly, Lisa

Hi, Please allow me a countering viewpoint. Being poor, and being a panhandler are different things. Being very poor is a great hardship, being a panhandler is a con. The panhandler is a criminal bent on deceiving, robbing, breaking in, illegal drug distributing and use, rape plus immoral acts on the streets and in the bushes of public places. Panhandlers cost more than the price of a kind handout by the well intentioned, they raise the cost of all local community resources and they threaten the innocent in the community. It is difficult, but the poor must have some discipline same as the less poor and the affluent have discipline imposed upon them. Poverty is not excuse to abuse others, it is not excuse to assault others, nor try to intimidate them in parking lots of merchants, and churches and other places of worship. I suggest that there are really great organizations to support financially that do help the poor, but that giving cash to a beggar is not the best way to help. If led and it feels safe give food, water, but no cash. For panhandling is a career choice, poverty is not. In practice helping an unfortunate person is harder than giving cash to a panhandler, for it may involve half a day's effort at a time finding out the need, going to a store, buying groceries, diapers, clean water, and delivering them to the person that is in need. And then following up with some transportation help to get the poor to opportunities for them to gain footing again. It is a long struggle. It, poverty, will always be there. It is hard and it is difficult to resist that panhandler- for a reason. The panhandler is good at playing the role chosen as a career. The panhandler is a con artist that steals from the poor, for they take the very resource that a kind hearted person may have instead contributed to a needy person in the form of groceries and other help. And to be blunt, giving to panhandlers just ends up giving money to the local street drug dealer that robs from our whole society It is hard to be firm in how one helps. But it is not at all beneficial to give cash to anyone panhandling. I do suggest helping steadily as one is led to do so, but not with cash to a stranger, nor even a friend for that matter, help with resources food and personal effort, but not with cash as that cash gets used in ways that are abusive and counter productive to lifting anyone up out of their plight.

Amen Sis..... When I think back it sometimes blows my mind where Ive been,very surreal but it would have been impossible to do anything good by our own work or effort..... I know what you mean , the darkness is like a weight of great force( almost crushing) ... Cant let it distract you or frighten & discourage .... You have to do exactly what you did and remain focused on Jesus, the Word.... Then you have & bring His Peace..... I used to day to myself" okay, the Prince of Peace is here with me, in me and through me.... Praise Jesus Love you Angels

Me either, he should be serving two life sentences.

By the way, you got it. I'm 15

Well said AJ!!

Amen,we should go where and whenever we hear the call,could be in so many di fferent situations!

The blessed hope is the redemption of our bodies at the resurection .

I believe the only ones that can not believe in Christ are those that choose to not believe and even then it's questionionable. Sin can lead to the hardening of one's heart. That is because the individuals loves the sin or act of sinning so much they shut themselves off from God. The hardening of the heart would be shutting God out. So since God gives free will, if a person chooses to be hard of heart, love sin or sinning to the point that they disregard God, then he will let them be. "Give them over." Now is there an amount of sin that God does not forgive. I can not say. I am not authorized nor qualified to speak for God. However we do have scripture to assist in understanding God. 1 John 1:9King James Version (KJV) 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness Matthew 12:31-32King James Version (KJV) 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. I would suggest, you go to Jesus/God and honestly confess and repent for all your sins and ask that he teach you lead you and guide you to God and where God wants you to be. This is what usually keeps most from seeking God. Don't let it keep you in that place where it seems you do not want to be. Never be afraid of coming to God, but do be weary against whatever tries to keep you away.

Being really poor is slow torture. The bible says that "poverty is the destruction of the poor" and i say that Poverty has harmed more already then riches ever will. I often wonder about people i see who are living on the street. After all, they didnt begin there, and yet, here they are... What happened?..... As certainly at one point nearly all of them had a better life, and maybe a home, and opportunities, and success.....Yet, here they are now with the sleeping bag and the tobacco for breakfast and the impossible life. What i try to do is remember that no matter why they are there, its a HARD LIFE, and we should give to them every time. Recently i was looking at a young man on the street, who was leaning against the side of my local WalMart Superstore. He had a beard, was wearing moccasins and fatigues. I drove up near him and waved him over and tried to hand him a bit of cash and he didnt want to take it. So, i insisted, and told him "it'll make me feel good for you to have it".... And that is a perfectly legitimate point, as it's not only true, its scriptural...."its more blessed to give then to receive". I invite you to take every opportunity you can to give money to all the poor in your city, (when given the opportunity)= no matter what. = Proverbs 19:17 We are the most like God, when we give.

all the christians i know are loving.

I am required by The Lord to place all my being by faith into Him.... one of the most outstanding verses in God's Word 2 Timothy 2:13 (KJV) [13] If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. here in this verse lies the victory in all things that continue with Him eternally... it is in this place my soul is naked before Him and all assurance becomes unwavering! He has whispered it to us from the beginning even to this end the same in yesterday, today and the morrow.... Exodus 3:14 (KJV) [14] And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Isaiah 46:10 (KJV) [10] Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: I might fail, those around me might fail... but The One God =Father, Son and Holy Spirit will not and in this alone I rely in being to be kept and delivered daily... this is what I meant by expectation that cannot be disappointed Thank you for your comments they were insightful

Yes was confident and brash. His heart was towards God. He loved God with his whole heart.

When I first really read David, I totally didn't see his greatness. The big picture is as Willa stated After rereading and seeking or having that hunger to understand. I asked a very similar question here on WCF, but mine was much more harsh. However despite the way I came off in my question, God sent his people to open my eyes and allowed me to reread from a different view. This is how I see the Story of David and how great he is. David was an ordinary Man, just as you or I. He sinned constantly, repeatedly, yet God forgave and chose him to have purpose in God's ultimate plan. God made him great despite his sinful nature. This is comforting to a sinner that may feel they are not worthy of God or they don't see how God can use them. One lesson. Now speaking of God ultimate plan. David's genuine repentance and his want to be God's and be right by God is the model relationship that God wants from us all. He is a key component in the foundation of one's relationship with God. Some many may only think his greatness was that he was a King of God in his time. Even David might have thought this for his time. Yet God had greater plans, way greater than anyone could imagine. David's Story shows all who seek God how to do it. Trust in God, keep a relationship with God, repent wholeheartedly and true. Understand and own up to one's sin and work to set it right with God. Always try and live by God and even when we slip up. Go to God honestly and accept God's judgement. We don't have to fear him. David truly is the prime example of the relationship between MAN and God. Well this is what I got out of it so far. I find the more I reread the more is revealed. Now this is only my experience and understanding. Jesus has given you the Holy Spirit to guide in your learning. Get comfortable with the Holy Spirit and the questions will be answered.

Blessings bryan.... I have no idea what the name of that Sermon would be but that really is irrelevant to this discussion,imo because we are talking about the Doctrine of an entire organization & not the error of a person,people will get things wrong ,they will preach bad sermons & deliver messages that are not from God but from the flesh and many other things,Christianity is not about pastors & leaders,each man is accountable for his own Salvation,all you need do is read the Word of God for yourself,we are encouraged to search & seek God for ourselves....it all about Christ Abiding in us ,the Indwelling of His Holy Spirit.....thats the complete opposite of what JW believes & teaches.....when you begin with changing Gods Word thats messing with the core of Christianity,the Good News Gospel of Jesus Christ......theres always going to be bad preachers the same way there are people that post here & are obviously filled with nothing but anger,bitterness,unkindness,no self control,pride,resentments and are extremely judgemental,does that define Christianity,no it does not.....Jesus does I think I'm rambling but it just sounds like apples compared to watermelons to me,sorry With love-in Christ,Kwik

prayers for you and her. I guess what we think is right is a matter of perspective. If she was my friend the right thing would be pray for wisdom and pray the Lord grant her repentance and renew a right spirit in her. I would pray till i felt compelled to speak to her. i would go be honest with her and not shield her from seeing the truth about her situation. It would be right to to tell her shes just digging a huge hole for herself and the end of the path she is on is pretty much prison, mental hospital or death.. I think the right thing would be to let her know there is peace in doing what is right in the sight of God and a hope for her futute. Right to me would be tell her how much the Lord loves her and to share the gospel and let her know if she does whats right a stops running from her mistakes i would stand beside her as she faces them because i am her friend but i cant be a partner in crime and help her hide from the police because i am a christian first. But like some one told you. you should ask the Lord how he wants to use you in this situation. i would alsi tell her if she doesnt turn herself in she needs to leave and not telk me because if the police ask im telling the truth.

Praying!

Hello welcome to worthy chat. great question and topic:)

The greatest freedom God has given me is not to love the things of this world... but love the place where I am going more than the one I am at... working this out in day to day living causes people to consider me an idiot...

"You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden." - Matthew 5:14 But God loves me, and He loves you too. Thank God! I agree about loving the unlovable, and I do try to treat the people that are unloving with love. I definitely don't want to repay evil with evil. (Romans 12:17; 1 Peter 3:9) Just because others actions make me "feel" like being a hermit doesn't mean I will or keep my love from others. Thanks for the Matthew 5:14 reference! But Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 says Two are better than one because they have a good return for their labor. For if either of them falls, the one will lift up his companion. But woe to the one who falls where there is not another to lift him up. We were created for relationships, and we need authentic friendships. In the church it is sometimes much harder than it should be to establish these kind of relationships and that is the issue I am bringing to light. If someone is your enemy/unlovable yes we are still supposed to love them, but that doesn't mean include them as a close friend. Our brothers/sisters in Christ are supposed to be our "family." If they are unloving, unkind, and not supportive it's hard to establish genuine, close relationship with them. This is a real problem in our churches, and I'm looking for real solutions. I believe this is serious because it hinders non-believers from wanting to accept Christ, and it causes a lot of hurt and sometimes even disunity in the body of believers. Thank you for reminding me that God loves me! Yes He does! All of this has made me much closer to Him, so that's a positive. Thanks for sharing your heart!

SING IT SISTER SING IT. has anyone else noticed that the churches ceased from teaching revelations in most cases. I spoke to a catholic lady about end time prophetic events..............we spoke about rfid and how the world is headed and she agreed. BUT when I told her did you KNOW it says you cant buy or sell without the mark in revelations........in the bible HER JAW DROPPED..................most have not been told nor taught , and if they have its all symbolic now. THEIR IS AN AGENDA at work The lady could not believe how accurate it was . I showed her in revelations and it FLOORED HER . see the churches aint preparing the people for anything anymore. CEPT THIS WORLD PEACE all inclusive mindset. WHICH leads the world right to the coming man of world peace........a hint it wont be GOD.......... but he sure will play the part. WE WERE WARNED and HERE IT COMES>

Welcome~! ~ Praying~!

Where is our LOYALTY , where is our TRUST..........................is it in men or GOD ALONE the mark of the beast will truly show where our heart is. Where our trust is, where our hope is. And again KEY WORD..................You cant buy or sell SAVE HE who has that mark. I know people are scared, they want to imagine anything other than the plain truth. BUT I GOT NO FEAR of man. NONE.................if I die for the LORDS sake...........THEN PRIASE HIM if I live through it all till HIS COMING ..............THEN PRIASE HIM. ITS ALL ABOUT HIS WILL BE DONE. and its high time the peoples GET THAT MINDSET BACK AGAIN. HIGH TIME. this life is but a vapor , but eternal life WHO can measure that. IF I have to suffer for HIS NAME sake......then AMEN FOR HE surely saved the worst when he saved me..............and on that note I say PRAISE THE LORD ALL PEOPLES PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME I say PRIASE PRAISE < PRAISE THE HOLY RIGHTEOUS LORD...............forever amen

So many miss out one one crucial thing it says. One man told me it was the monster drink. Now listen real closely to what I told him next. I said its impossible for it to be the monster drink. cause whether I buy and drink one or not I CAN STILL BUY AND SELL IN THIS WORLD. KEY............YOU CANT BUY OR SELL WITHOUT IT. YOU cant BUY OR SELL lest you have that mark. CANT buy or sell. here is something many also are not seeing. WE are not our own, We have been BOUGHT at a price, OUR TEMPLE is not even our own. DO NOT RENDER unto ceasar THAT WHICH IS GODS ALONE. OUR TEMPLE IS NOT EVEN OURS...........ITS GODS Not too mention many are not paying attention to the way this rfid is in everything now. We can make payments with phones etc THEY GOT the SYSTEM READY . IF it can read from a phone.............what makes us think it cant ALREADY be read in the SKIN. OH IT CAN. they plan on either electronic magenettic tattoe, RFID INK, or chip . WHEN the news talks about HOW GOOD this can be WHEN the news propagandizes it , Commericals promote it IN THE SKIN MIND YOU UNDERSTAND its called CONDITIOING the WORLD TO SEE it as GOOD. wait till we start hearing , this may be necessary to stop or end terrorism. ITS COMING. and I got one word to say.............AINT NOTHING GOING IN OR ON GODS HOLY TEMPLE...............MY BODY IS NOT MY OWN ITS GODS..........and I shall keep it far from the BEAST SYSTEM. ceasar nor his system is my provider or GOD............. I don't care how bad it gets..............I have no doubt in time I wont even be able to work or function in society lest we have one. YOU KNOW where MY TRUST IS...........IN GOD. HE WILL FEED ME EVEN WHEN I CANT WORK , HE WILL PROVIDE. I KNOW IT, cause he feeds sparrows , SO I DONT FEAR MAN , I SHUN any concept of anything in or on GODS TEMPLE . IT has been said...................GIVE UNTO CAEASAR that which is ceasars and give unto GOD that which is HIS BUT NEVER, EVER < NEVAH EVAH..............GIVE TO CEASAR that WHICH IS GODS ALONE..................our BODY , our temples are HIS and the whore can keep her ring .

I agree. The painful sores and boils on all those who take the mark keeps it in a actual description context for me and not symbolism. the mark will be obvious by the biblical description to those who are confronted with it in that day. The blessing of reading Revelation is we have the word for the Lord to guide us with.

Yep, and act upon again and again and again so that it is first nature with me. Something that does not require much delay in thought but more a this is what is to be done here and now. Done! Not a plan of how is to be done, by "Church", by "government", not a five year plan of economics, just do it. For it is to be done, it is the; I shall do's of life as a saint in Christ Jesus. - done to His honor and for His Glory, in appreciation and of love for what He has done to this body mind and soul-

I want to explain why I said young people almost always think there's something wrong with them. First is because I used to be 1 of them. More importantly is bc several yrs ago I used to answer questions on Yahoo. It took me about a month to realize most of those questions came from people under 25 & even 30. Almost everyday I was answering a similar concern. Then I remembered that when me and my friends were young we thought we were crazy too. Often parents and teachers make this worse. I wished I could've transferred what I know to every parent or teacher that tells a young person, "you're crazy". Or, You're gonna wind up in jail if you keep this up. I spent all my teen yrs expecting the police to come and take me away. I really worried about this, REALLY. But the reality of my situation was that I never broke laws and I was more obedient than most of my friends. But I was a teen and figured my parents knew what they were saying. They didn't bc now I'm over 60 and I never spent 1 day in jail. What the young person worries about has a lot to do with his personality. What I mean is Mat's a Christian and it's normal to fear you're the antichrist except you don't know it yet. When I listen to certain preachers I can see how young people might fear they are that evil person the devil is going to reveal some day. There's nothing logical about paranoia. If there was the person would realize he loves the Lord, may be going to church weekly, he hates the evil he sees, and he longs to meet Jesus someday. Logic dictates that the devil could not have picked a more unlikely person to be the antichrist. Therefore, I'm glad you shared this fear with us. I tell you the truth, this will pass and you will laugh about it.

That's a different way of putting it.....but it works! I've also heard it put that we should not get between the hammer and the work. God being the hammer. Realizing that we are not the ones doing the saving (although that terminology is often used) takes a TON of pressure off us. Too often we think we have to walk away from an interaction fully knowing we have accomplished something. The problem is if we have it in OUR mind that, not just a homosexual, but anyone that we see as a sinner must see our point of view before we move on, we are just being selfish and heading towards making someone become defensive and dig in. Dancing with God and his Holy Spirit as we build relationships requires patience but oh we gain so much in the process. Learning to wait for Him and respond when He knows it is the right time, without pushing our own agenda requires a change of attitude. Knowing we have taken part in that dance while we have interacted with someone is really what it is all about. It gives us a reason to pray and interact with the Lord because just as you have said, it is recognizing that it is up to Him. We have to learn to be patient in a fast results world. There is a reason we live in a fast paced world....Satan has slowly but surely orchestrated that so that we won't take the time to wait on the Lord or others.

Note: I am going to be confrontational as of reading the quoted post. Please consider again what is being stated above. I do disagree with it, and I object. I personally find it a bit of an offensive stance as there is no WE and no THEM, and there is no YOU that is the sole person with a differing attitude towards any sinner. Besides; it is the Holy Spirit that does the calling the specific call to any individual to their salvation and eternal life with God. Not any man, none, no man, calls another to salvation. A saint in Christ Jesus is to proclaim the gospel of Jesus to all the world, all the world includes-all, wherever any saint mets any of the world. That is a universal command to every saint from God. BUT; no saint ever saved any person of the world, for that is the agency of God the Holy Spirit. No one comes to God except that God calls him first. There is no brag for any man in that. Please consider my objection, thanks for reading of it. In general and to all: It is MY personal conclusion that there is no boasting that is true about any saint saving anyone, nor of bringing anyone to salvation. It is God that does that, and God alone, at His good timing and at His pleasure. There is no man that substitutes for God the Holy Spirit. Every sharing of Jesus does not bring about the Holy Spirit calling and the individual responding by turning about to the repentance and salvation. Some do plant the word of God, some do till the soil of the planting, and some do reap in the harvest, but only by the will of God and the agency of the Holy Spirit. As a saint I am to labor in the field for sure, but I create nothing, and save nothing. I might instead be extremely humbled humbled to trembling in fear of the awesome wonder that is my creator and in the awesome and fearsome power and glory of God that I may witness as any individual may be called to turn about by the Holy Spirit. Each individual that has already been called into the fold, having been a sheep of the flock of Jesus from before the beginning of all things and known to God from before all time itself, is to share with everyone, everyone, not a select few, not ignoring anyone, but instead sharing with everyone of the gospel of Jesus. Doing that is nothing special. It is what a saint in Christ Jesus is to do. Whether given great talent and gift for doing so, or whether given meager skill and having trouble being even clumsy in doing, it is to be done. That sharing is also within the province and sovereignty of God. Every saint can give testimony in action and deed, plus voice, as they are blessed with the same gift of eternal life that will be offered by the Holy Spirit to all that God deems shall be called. Whether that is everyone or a select number only, it is always God and only God that brings about salvation to eternal life with Him. Back to specifics: All the above simply to say; it is nothing special to share of Jesus with a homosexual individual, nor any person, any at all, it is expected. It is expected of the saint in Christ Jesus, the called member of the flock of Jesus, to do so.

All perversion is a sin against God. Care to engage in what perversion includes? Heterosexual Christians will be shocked to find in the Bible (God's Word) many things they are daily violating without even realizing it or... it's become acceptable to them / us. Okay for heterosexuals to do this but not homosexuals... I remember how hard liquor swilling good ol' boys would run down pot smokers as dope heads... Same difference. Again, I am not condoning ANY perversion against God. The point I am driving at is how historically we've singled out this one perversion and looked the other way about the rest of OUR perversions.

In response to the title of this chain..." CAN A HOMOSEXUAL BE SAVED?" well, Can a murderer be saved? Can a liar be saved? Can a thief be saved? Can an adulterer be saved? What about alcoholics or drug addicts...do they have to stop drinking or taking drugs before they can be saved? Can anyone of us that sinned today be saved? Most importantly.....How many of us followed the very clear rule in the bible that states "YOU MUST CHANGE BEFORE YOU CAN BE SAVED"? To, to often we look at a homosexual's fornication and focus on that sin, that is like looking at a heterosexual's fornication and not seeing that they are lying, or cheating, or gossiping, or unforgiving, or....... As a Christian I know that we all fall short and we all need to learn that despite our failings, God has already made a way. That is the good news and that is the message that we should be sharing. I think that we have lost sight of the fact that Jesus the Christ died once for all, for all sin, for all people and I don't know of anywhere in the bible that says a person has to change BEFORE they can accept salvation. We do obviously need to recognize we are sinners and need forgiveness otherwise how do we know we need to be saved. So I ask the question is homosexuality the ONLY sin in a gay persons life? When it comes to the gay question I don't back away from acknowledging it as sin but I skip right to.....what is the sin in your life, forget the homosexual issue...what is the sin in your life, do you have any? Sharing the Gospel is about sharing the fact that it doesn't matter what or how much sin we have, we all have sin and it has all been forgiven. Rom 6:10 For when he died, he died once and for all as far as sin is concerned. We need to get off the homosexual merry go round and its shallowness. It should not be about getting someone to admit that homosexuality is a sin, it should be about acknowledging that we sin and need to accept forgiveness..... and there is all sorts of sin in a persons life, any ONE of which is enough to require forgiveness.

Excellent!!!!

Blessings Brother Patience dear Brother,patience.....did the woman call you yet....fairy godmothers usually don't ask for money but your fairy GOD BROTHER enoob said thats not a problem & just email me or Mike if there is anything else......Quite a few of my friends just recently had the surgery,I took one friend & she came out just fine as most cataract surgery these days are done with a local topical anesthesia & maybe a sedative to relax......its a very simple procedure .unlike complex eye surgery Are having one eye done or both? If its both then just prepare everything at home to be easily accessible for the next 2 or 2 days.....patience,its only a few days of inconvenience & possibly some discomfort...you will not have any pain Trust God & call medicare to see where they can refer you to for assistance besides medical transport,assistance for maybe one or 2 days tops,a couple of hours Love,Kwik

You have one video? I have a few scriptures that concretely prove your statement false. So - therefore - your video and its contents are moot and not credible. Mark 14:61-62 = "Again the high priest asked him, 'Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?''I am,' said Jesus. 'And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” John 4:25-26 = "The woman said, 'I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.' Then Jesus declared, 'I, the one speaking to you—I am he.'” And then there is the way that Jesus initially introduced himself to the men in the synagogue. He directly claimed that he was the "anointed one" prophesied in Isaiah 61 - a passage these men knew well. That's what the Hebrew word, Messiah - and the Greek word, Christ - both mean. They mean "anointed one". Luke 4:16-19 = "He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written: 'The Spirit of the Lord is on me,because he has anointed me to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.'to proclaim good news to the poor He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free' Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. He began by saying to them, 'Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.'”

It's also currently available on Netflix .... watched it several times it was so good.

When I have read the story of Noah I have always thought of this verse where the raven is sent out by Noah and doesn't come back. Ravens symbolize satan many times and this raven went "to and fro" until the waters had dried up on the earth. (Gen. 9:7) Very complex book! Yes Wordsower, You are exactly right! In fact there are explicit Scripture verses within Job, to compliment just what you have spoken about Christ and Job. I'll try to get back and post them in a little while. In His Love, Suzanne Ok, wordsower, Here is something that I had never noticed! I am thankful I had to go and look at those passages again to post here, because I missed one that is SO VERY IMPORTANT! We need to remember it, as we as God's children persevere through trials: Job 16:8 You have shriveled me up, And it is a witness against me; My leanness rises up against me And bears witness to my face. 9 He tears me in His wrath, and hates me; He gnashes at me with His teeth; My adversary sharpens His gaze on me. 10 They gape at me with their mouth, They strike me reproachfully on the cheek, They gather together against me. 11 God has delivered me to the ungodly, And turned me over to the hands of the wicked. 12 I was at ease, but He has shattered me; He also has taken me by my neck, and shaken me to pieces; He has set me up for His target, 13 His archers surround me. He pierces my heart and does not pity; He pours out my gall on the ground. (In the NIV, it translates in 16:8, You have bound me--and it has become a witness: This is complimentary to what you stated in the other post Wordsower. And when I studied these passages before, I missed how very important that one verse was!) As a side note, and a totally different study.....affliction........is an absolute in the life of a Christian.......ALWAYS!!! Many times affliction will be the necessary vehicle that will drive us right to Christ's feet! I had to learn the hard way. It is what took me from a "lukewarm", to a real BONAFIDE CHRIST FOLLOWER! He kept calling me, and I kept choosing for the world, but one day I decided the affliction of the circumstances of my life was just TOO MUCH!!! I CRIED OUT! I am thankful for this affliction. Now, having said that, let's keep that in the backs of our minds as we study Job. Ps 119:71 It is good for me that I have been afflicted, That I may learn Your statutes. Ps 119:75 I know, O Lord, that Your judgments are right, And that in faithfulness You have afflicted me. Ps 119:107 I am afflicted very much; Revive me, O Lord, according to Your word. Ps 22:24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Nor has He hidden His face from Him; But when He cried to Him, He heard. In His Love, Suzanne

Ok, here is what was significant to me in study this morning: Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. 4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. 5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. 6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. 7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown. 8 And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes. 9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. 10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. The word "retain" and "holdeth fast" In His Love, Suzanne

My next focus is: What was the purpose of Satan in this Book? What was the purpose in his appointment with Job? It was an obvious appointment? But why? Well, let's take a look at the dialogue between Satan and God. Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. (Ok, we still don't get it, the purpose that is. So, let's look some other places.) What struck me was the going "to and fro". I was reminded of this passage about Satan: 1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. 11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. I think the above passages speak to us about what might have been some issues going on with Job? With particular interest in humility, pride, afflictions, trusting the Lord, etc. Now, as you read about Job, remember, he was someone in "good standing" amongst the "church" and with God Himself. Also, in a deeper look at the "to and fro" of Satan. A little further study on the matter: This passage will have a bearing towards the end of the study if I get that far. Jeremiah 5:1 Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it. 2 And though they say, The LORD liveth; surely they swear falsely. 3 O LORD, are not thine eyes upon the truth? thou hast stricken them, but they have not grieved; thou hast consumed them, but they have refused to receive correction: they have made their faces harder than a rock; they have refused to return. 4 Therefore I said, Surely these are poor; they are foolish: for they know not the way of the LORD, nor the judgment of their God. 5 I will get me unto the great men, and will speak unto them; for they have known the way of the LORD, and the judgment of their God: but these have altogether broken the yoke, and burst the bonds. 6 Wherefore a lion out of the forest shall slay them, and a wolf of the evenings shall spoil them, a leopard shall watch over their cities: every one that goeth out thence shall be torn in pieces: because their transgressions are many, and their backslidings are increased. 7 How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: Let's look at the first couple of chapters of Job. Look deeper at Job's life and family. See if you can read between the lines a little? What is your impression of him? Try to look at him according to what is written about him. What do you glean? What is going on in his life/family/personally? In His Love, Suzanne

Ok, here is what I was lead to begin with: Who are the players? All study will be from the reading of God's Word. Quiet time in prayer. And then further research from reference sources: Strongest Strongs (I have found that this version is a little more indepth than regular Strongs, so if you find discrepancies in this and your Strongs, that is why. They do not match identically.) Nave's Topical Bible Name meanings: 1. Job - #347 "where is my father" or perhaps Where is my father, O God?" Also means "hated". (I found this to be very interesting, the root origin of this word for Job, comes from #340 which means, "to be an enemy" or "hostile") 2. Eliphaz - #464 "my God is (fine) gold" or God crushes 3. Bildad - #1085 Bildad = "confusing (by mingling) love" 4. Zophar - #6691 "sparrow" "peep" "twitter" - Qal) to go early, depart early-meaning dubious. 5. Elihu - #453 Elihu = "He is my God" Will start with these. In His Love, Suzanne

I'll be in here with ya sis! I love this study of Job!! (don't know how much I'll be able to contribute though. Duty calls )