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I also was a pre-tib believer. The letters of paul were written in the time of the apostles. The apostles suffered greatly along with the churches under the Emperors. It would have been difficult to tell them that they would not have to suffer at the hands of their oppressors. Now we come into the modern day free world church who are not suffering at all and told tales of great woe so by using fear the church will escape before it all comes down after the antichrist confirms seven years of peace with Israel. Why would all the fire works begin just after they made peace. Both Jesus and Daniel concur it starts after the abomination of desolation 3 1/2 yrs after the peace agreement. Read Daniel 7: 25 where its says the church is handed over to the antichrist for this period. Now read Rev 15 the overcoming church ( the bride ) is in heaven just before the wrath of God is poured out on the unbeliever world. So what is the stuff the pre- trib people are trying to sell us on. Money is at the bottom line, selling pews to fill their churches, write books and sell films. Persecution and Gods wrath are two separate events. The saints are not appointed Gods wrath. Those who overcome we see standing before God having the harps of God Rev 15.

Except that is exactly the kind of foolishness in which the pretrib doctrine engages. There are two sets of believers according to pretrib dogma: one set gathered before the last week begins, and another set which endure the wrath of God and are gathered sometime during the last week. Pretrib tells us there is an elite group of believers who are at this time perfected, righteous and holy and these will be taken out early so as not to endure what pretrib thinks is God's wrath. Then there is the other group, whom I have heard described on this forum as a lesser group, pushed aside because this group doesn't believe in the pretrib rapture, marginalized through what pretrib advocates seem to think is a closeted masochistic proclivity; e.g., a need to be punished to prove our worth, etc. Then of course this second, unbelieving, masochistic set must also be sadistic to the elite set, as I have heard it said on this forum the second set believe the brand new bride must be punished. Of course this is decried as outlandish as no good husband would ever do such a thing. What we see in the behavior of the advocates of the pretrib doctrine is slanderous, prejudicial and bigoted speech. Is that any way for any believer, no matter the personal dogma, to behave? We should be bold as the lion, rock solid in our convictions, determined, unmovable, but prejudice and bigotry have no place in the heart and mind of any of us. At any point in time I'm variously hurt, frustrated, sorrowful, given to tears, angry, dejected, etc., over this very subject, but in all that I hope I comport my self with dignity, integrity, honesty, patience, understanding, and truth. We all need to reflect on this as it's the love we are commanded to show to all others. While we may not agree on all things, fiercely defending our beliefs, it's not an opening for the worst behavior of which we are capable.

What you said is quite valid. There is also the fact that, smart, famous, wealthy, people, live in such ease and comfort, that its difficult for them to even consider Salvation. And honestly, the worst witness ever found, that will keep an educated professional person from even considering Jesus, is a TV Evangelist., as this hokey, fakery, nonsense.... is not universal, but OMG, nearly the whole situation is infected with PRETENSE, and a smart educated person, is repulsed by it.....and thats a fact. It is a fact that if the only "Jesus" a smart, rich, famous, educated, person, ever sees, is a TV evangelist.........then God help them, as most, not all, but most, are infected with incurable pretense. And as i was saying.....If your lifestyle is to get up, and climb in a Limo, and later, climb back out of a Limo, as you enter your 8.8 Million dollar palace in the Hollywood hills, then its unlikely that you are going to be reaching out to Jesus, anytime soon., as.........do you feel LOST?..........not quite. The truth is.... Most people call out to the Lord when they are in a mess, and when you have riches, fame, and are quite educated, you dont normally find yourself in a situation that can't be solved quite easily, by what you already possess. Where this ticket straight to hell breaks down for them is when they lose it all, or they just find themselves with something incurable. Or, they find someone they love, in the same situation., as once that happens then they tend to reach out to the only real solution for it all.

Hi lunarose This is how we learn to live by faith! A sister once put it to me this way - a mother has a baby in a pram and the baby can't necessarily see its' mother for a few minutes as the mother may have walked around to the front of the pram to adjust it or something. Just because the mother is out of the baby's sight doesn't mean she has gone away. No matter what the circumstances, we believe in and trust God because we know that we know that we know that He is there! Just keep trusting in Him; He will not leave us nor forsake us, even unto the end of the age! We all go through these times, dear sister. He wants us to stay with Him, through every circumstance. Stay faithful, and be blessed sister! PS - glad to meet you - welcome.

I don't trust things that foretell the future. Too often my own desires get in the way and I don't want to hear what God is really telling me. So if something was predicted that didn't come to pass, it simply means the prophecy was false. Don't listen to it again and ask God to forgive you for trusting in it. Seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness. But don't let it throw you into confusion. God is not the author of confusion. It is a learning process. God is so patient with us.

Welcome to Worthy Lunarose! One thing I do to understand the gravity of prayer and to whom I'm praying to and it helps me stay focused -- I pray along these lines -- Lord as I pray, would you make it as though my soul is in the very throne room -- in your very presence -- as I'm coming in worship of the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords ... I love the fact the Lord is just a prayer away! He's trying to establish this deep intimate relationship with you -- just ask and claim His promises! Your brother in the Lord with much agape love, George

The Law was given so that “ transgressions might increase”.... kinda like kids will ignore my yard completely, but if I put up a “keep off the grass” here they come! God wants people to get absolutely sick of it,in the hope that they may abandon it.Another purpose of the Law (all 613 of them) is to show men that they can not keep it.Men need a Saviour, and if properly utilized, the Law will lead them to Christ.

Malachi 3:9 "Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation." Is God saying the priests AND the whole nation have robbed him - that is the priests and the nation are guilty. OR Is God saying the priests have robbed both him and the nation - that is the priests are guilty on two accounts, robbing God and robbing the nation?

I listen to a lot of Christian music. Lately, I've noticed some questionable theological points in a few songs by mostly new artists, but not entirely. Has anyone else noticed this or is this just me? Linked article on this subject: Old Example from 2004

i once read this quite in a book called the death of a guru. In it the former Hindu guru turned Christian pastor indicated that the hardest people tovreach with the gospel are the long time church attending individuals ie people who go to church all that life but never actually get saved. what what you think

Some of the hardest for me to witness to have been family. I have to live the life consistently before them. I have to agree with Butero that those with a hard heart are very difficult. They tend to be scornful and have the attitude of it fine for you but I don't want any part of it (if they are polite).

Agreed. That's where sowing the word comes in. Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! It was the word that I heard, "I must be born again"that was planted in my heart, and grew, and was watered, and blossomed into life. Everlasting life. One old faithful sower, planted a seed. Thank You Lord.

Unusual to have two JW's talk to me at my fence just now. I am blacklisted. As normal, they mentioned how important is God's name. They asked what is Gods' name. I answered that is was "Yeshua hamashia baruch hashem", "Adonai", "Jehovah", etc. When i said "yeshua hamashia baruch hashem" she appeared to be taken aback a bit. I think the red flags were going off. Maybe something like "Oh, this guy KNOWS something!" I told them that Moses asked God what His name was and God said His name is "ego eimi" or "I am". I told them that Jesus also uses that name. They ( as usual ) totally ignored this and asked me to turn to Psalm 88. I refused to read their NWT and got my KJV. The passage gives Gods' name as Jehovah. I asked them something like "So, did God LIE when He told Moses His name was I AM?" They of course said "No". Suddenly, they wanted to leave! I told them that Jesus is also called/referred to as Jehovah which they don't believe. My prayer is that the JW's will not be successful in spreading their filth and lies and they would come to know Jesus as their Lord and Savior, repent and be born again.

Not necessarily. Taking the mark is part of worshiping the image which is the sin of idolatry. Those who did not receive the love of the truth but chose to take pleasure in unrighteousness will be deceived by the strong delusion of the signs and wonders. I don't think any of them will ever repent. The plagues are God's corrective discipline for the believers (not unbelievers) who will be deceived into thinking the man of sin is God. Eventually the plagues will turn into God's wrath when it gets to the point that no one repents. But that will all work itself out. The main thing is to prepare for the coming time of great distress.

I no longer actively witness. I do it more "passively". That is, I bring up stuff in conversation with people, be it a cashier, waiter, guy I'm standing next to, waiting for a light to change. Heck, I ended up witnessing to the young lady cutting my hair at Bellevue Square once. She poured out her frustrations in her personal life and her struggles with religion in general. Basically my "witnessing" was sharing Ecclesiastes and then the Gospel tied in to it. I told her, at the end, that she should read Ecclesiastes and then John, and in that order. She was quite excited and actually wrote it down. I told her to pray before starting and that it will change her life. I'm not a fan of actively cramming this down people's throats. If they are interested, they will show it, and then I share the good news. But what I share IS the Good News, and in it there is no place for "eternal suffering of the lost".

From a human perspective, we see repentance as possible until a person dies. However, God sees the heart and knows its condition. When the Holy Spirit convicts someone of their sin, they either repent or harden their hearts. If a person persists in hardening their heart against His conviction, their heart becomes arrogant toward the Holy Spirit and out of the abundance of their heart, their mouth speaks blasphemies against Him. Only God knows if and when that point of no return is ever reached.

Hello, This is my first post ever but I could really use some advice and encouragement right now maybe even prayer. I have a hit a pretty rough, dry season in my faith. I really don't know what I'm doing anymore and I feel very confused and lost almost. I know God is there and he is listening but I feel like I can't hear him anymore. I thought I heard God say certain things would happen this summer and when they didn't I got really confused and a bit upset, but I know I'm still in the hands of the creator. I just don't know what to do, I know I and I'm trying to stay in Gods word, in prayer and just have trust and faith in everything but I really don't know what to do. Any help? Thanks

That's not a new trend, especially for "contemporary" music. I've noticed the bad theology (and the single sentence repeated endlessly) for some time. Butero has a good point in that this is not quite so widespread in southern gospel as in other genres.

Lets see, ah, what were we.....Oh yeah! The Hardest people to witness to...... It's been my experience, 'Ya gotta get em lost, before ya can get em saved'

Do not be deceived, there are only two possible states: Belief or Unbelief. "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." - Romans 10:4 The Scriptures are clear of the existence of these two states, and depending on what people are believing in it will be reflected in their lives. "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?" - Matthew 7:16 One cannot believe in the truth and do works from deceit, for example. "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe - and tremble!" - James 2:19 "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth." - 1 John 1:6 There is only one source of absolute truth: God (The Father, The Word, and The Holy Spirit). "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." - 1 John 5:7 If people believe in the truth, they will naturally produce fruits from the truth. "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me." - John 15:4 If you are questioning: "You said Word, where is the Son Jesus Christ?!" "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." - John 1:14 There are only two types of fruits: Bad or Good. Also there is another type of fruit, the one that appears beautiful outwardly, but inside is full of death, deceit, and all uncleanness. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness." - Matthew 23:27 People in this group includes those who say "Lord, Lord", profess faith in Him but does not care in doing what is pleasing in His sight: To believe and to practice the truth. "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth." - John 17:17 "For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 Such people are living in deceit, as they do not submit themselves to the Lord. And prefer to believe in the lie: Walk in darkness, practice willful sins and justify themselves instead of repenting and to seek a holier life and truly walk in love and truth. "I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh." - Galatians 5:16 These are the fruits of unbelief, as they do not believe the Lord can sanctify them, and prefer to live as they please. "Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." - John 14:6 When the Word of God clearly states that such is possible for those who believe in The Son: "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth." - John 17:17 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." - John 8:32 "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin... ...Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed." - John 8:34+36 Another common thing that is discussed is when someone who once professed faith in Christ but now lives in sin. They are in unbelief, and this is a fact. If they were founded in Him they would not fall in such state. "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock." - Matthew 7:24-25 The Lord commanded us to watch and pray... "And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!" - Mark 13:37 "Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation..." - Mark 14:38 If we fall, He is there to take us back... If we believe. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." - 1 John 1:9 Another common thing that is discussed is when someone simply says: "I will put an end to my life". To commit suicide is not an idea that is coming from the Spirit of God... And those who believe in Him would never do such a thing. "This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all." - 1 John 1:5 But what indeed happened and the reasons: by accident, murder or by willful rebellion against the truth. "For He shall give His angels charge over you, To keep you in all your ways." - Psalm 91:11 It is not up to me to judge... But if it was willful rebellion against truth then it means the person died an unbeliever. "Many are the afflictions of the righteous, But the Lord delivers him out of them all." - Psalm 34:19 "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." - Romans 12:21 "...Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life." - Revelation 2:10 And another common thing that is discussed is when someone claims to believe in Him, but lives in rebellion against Him. No one who believes in Him, in truth, sincerely... Will seek to practice evil. If they do, they repent, and sincerely seek not to next time. If they can... "If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death..." - 1 John 5:16 "...There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that." - 1 John 5:16 "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death." - 1 John 5:17 Do not seek to practice evil, and flee from it... This pattern is one of obedience to the truth. When the person says: "I will just sin and do whatever I want... I am sinner and cannot stop sinning!" This clearly is willful rebellion against the truth, pride of their sinfulness is preventing them to receive the words from The Truth. "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth." - John 17:17 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." - John 8:32 "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin... ...Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed." - John 8:34+36 This is one of the reasons why the Lord Jesus said why it will be so hard for "the rich" to enter heaven. "...How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!" - Mark 10:23 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:3 "for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." - Romans 14:17 Because it is too hard for them to accept, believe and consequently be obedient to the truth. "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you." - John 15:14 Unless they stop justifying themselves and repent indeed instead of insisting in their evil ways, they will all perish. "Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God..." - Hebrews 3:12 "For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth." - 2 Corinthians 13:8 "...unless you repent you will all likewise perish." - Luke 13:5 And to die in unbelief is never a good option... The elect, the true believer will keep believing in God till the end; and consequently through all eternity. But there are three types of believers: Those who believe in the truth, and consequently practice it. "But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin." - 1 John 1:7 Those who say they believe in the truth, but do not want to practice the truth. "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth." - 1 John 1:6 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." - 1 John 4:1 Those who openly believe in the lie. "Now “If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?”" - 1 Peter 4:18 What kind of believer you are is up to you to choose. And we all know that walking in unbelief or deceit is never a good option. "Thus says the Lord: Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength, Whose heart departs from the Lord." - Jeremiah 17:5 And the Lord desires that we believe in Him, His Words, and consequently do them. "...not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning." - James 1:17 Or do we think we have something better to do?! "And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve... ...But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." - Joshua 24:15 As the Lord Jesus said: "...Take heed that no one deceives you." - Matthew 24:4 Yes, and this includes ourselves; our evil flesh that is full of deceit and all uncleanness. God bless you all in Jesus' name! Amen.

PRAISE the LORD letters , praise the Lord . just keep the exhortations coming . their are new ones that read this and show up daily . Onward and praise the LORD . That is right , AGAIN its LORD PRAISING TIME .

Hey lunarose, thanks for sharing with us your concerns.. and i have good news for you...... all believers have times, seasons, in their walk with the Lord that can seem less, and times that can seem more. This is just how it is when we practice our faith, as we are always and ever learning how to perform it better. So, even tho what you are feeling might seem, "not quite right" to you.......it is in fact, ...a fact,... that we walk by faith and not by sight, and the best way to do this is to keep your faith simple and yourself pure. keeping your self pure, regarding a believer, is self explanatory , but keeping your faith "simple", may not be quite as obvious... and to understand this, is to ask yourself...."why did God save you" Why did He do that?........... He did this because God loves Family, and "God so loved the WORLD"... all of us, so much, that He offered an only Son to prove it. = God would have everyone, (the world of all people) to be in His eternal family, and has invited ALL to come and be a part., = all who would kneel at the CROSS. So, what is Christianity really all about?......well, sure, we should pursue leading others to Christ as our main "work", as that is God's main work, and if we are to be most like Him, then we would do His main work.....of course........But RELATIONSHIP Wise.....what is the "thing"?...... Well the "thing" is the Simple Faith....and that is, understanding that God just wants you to love Him Back, with your life. .....Love Him Back With Your LIFE..... And if you'll concentrate on doing this, consistently, then given a little time, everything that you need to know right now, will become apparent, if you will make that your life's "simple faith". And how can we test ourselves to know if we are really in that place of devout simple faith where God wants us to be? Well, ask yourself......."is Jesus more real to me TODAY, RIGHT NOW, then he was 5 months after i was saved,??? 2 yrs, 10 yrs, 20 yrs, since ive been saved? If you cant say....OH YES....then, too much that is not "simple faith", has taken over your Christianity for too long, and its become static. Correct that. lunarose, I dont know how old you are, but, i can tell you this, and you can know its true..... In your life, no matter what it is you are going through, it will have a beginning and it will a time its over. So, whether in your daily life, or in "dry seasons" of your spiritual walk, learn to just abide in them all with simple faith, as everything is "time" that will pass, and remember to praise the Lord no matter what. WE are human, and sometimes we find ourselves so focused on what we want, <><because<><, we have lost focus on what we have been given.....and when that happens, we've lost our "thankful heart".......and sometimes, if we just correct this wrong thinking and point of view, because we have realized we are just caught up in it all, and have stopped having a thankful heart.....if we will just correct our hearts, then often this will absolutely set everything aright that was "feeling" frustrated and even depressing. Keeping a heart FULL of thanksgiving, of thankfulness, is the foundation of simple faith. A christian will say...>"well, how do i love God....i can't see Him"..........well, you love God with your heart, that is ever thankful for what He has done for you., and out of this heart condition, serving Him is such simple faith, perfected. "simple faith". We as people, number our time down here as moments, hours, years, .....but God views our time as seasons of change......And we are always in one.....We are always coming out of one and going into the next....... Change is Life......... And it could be that you are in a spiritual season of transition, where you are being taken from what is finished and you are being moved into what is to come, regarding deepening your spiritual life, as nothing stays the same.....everything changes........ and while it is changing, remember to keep yourself pure, and your faith, simple. God bless you. <B><

I relish the idea of JW's coming to the door!! These people are in love with God and I love talking about God with them. I try to be as loving as possible and even though I know the differences in their theology and a Christians I know that these people are really looking for a relationship with God. They are just sooo misguided. I don't "load up with ammunition" to try and shoot them down. I look at what we agree on and establish that we are both looking for a relationship with God. I think the most important thing I can establish after that is that "with all the translations out there, there can be different meanings in different bibles" I don't care who you are talking to, when you say that they will agree with you! 'So how then do we get the best understanding of what was really said in the bible?'.......we have to look at multiple bibles and determine the meaning from a cross section. Now we are into a bible study, me setting the example with my 6 (a dozen on my computer)...they with their 1, and on the way to correcting bad or even evil theology. I never get into an argument put choose to shrug my shoulders and say 'OK we disagree here' They always come back We have to stop looking at confronting as a way of showing people their theology is wrong and learn to ask the questions that get people to think and want to discover truth independent of what they are being told ....from their church or from me telling them what they believe is wrong The bible tells us to go out and evangelize....heck God's bringing them to the door!!!! Gotta step into that with love and not mess it up Acts 17:16 Paul in Athens

Shalom Oak, Welcome to WCF! This is the entire context of the question at hand -- Mal 3:6 “For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed. Mal 3:7 From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from my statutes and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you, says the LORD of hosts. But you say, ‘How shall we return?’ Mal 3:8 Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, ‘How have we robbed you?’ In your tithes and contributions. Mal 3:9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me, the whole nation of you. Mal 3:10 Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need. Mal 3:11 I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of your soil, and your vine in the field shall not fail to bear, says the LORD of hosts. Mal 3:12 Then all nations will call you blessed, for you will be a land of delight, says the LORD of hosts. Mal 3:13 “Your words have been hard against me, says the LORD. But you say, ‘How have we spoken against you?’ Mal 3:14 You have said, ‘It is vain to serve God. What is the profit of our keeping his charge or of walking as in mourning before the LORD of hosts? Mal 3:15 And now we call the arrogant blessed. Evildoers not only prosper but they put God to the test and they escape.’” I believe the context is clear that it's a Word given to the entire nation. God bless, George

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me. But you say, In what have we robbed You? In the tithe and the offering! Mal 3:9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the nation, all of it. Mal 3:10 Bring all the tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house. And test Me now with this, says Jehovah of Hosts, whether I will not open the windows of the heavens for you and pour out a blessing until there is no sufficiency of room to store it. Mal 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for you, and he shall not destroy the fruit of your ground against you; nor shall your vine miscarry against you in the field, says Jehovah of Hosts. Mal 3:12 And all nations shall call you blessed, for you shall be a delightful land, says Jehovah of Hosts. I can't see that the priests are robbing God twice. All of Israel seems to be guilty of withholding tithes. Only they were under the law to tithe. The law is bondage. We are free to give as God leads and we are able.

Thanks, Debp! I slept over 8 hours last night. I don't know if I will tonight but I do see that God has allowed it to happen for my good!! He is drilling in the message that He will help me through ANYTHING. His plans for us sometimes allow difficult and sometimes terrible things. But He will take care of me no matter what I have to face on this earth. I am finding peace with whatever His will is for my life. As far as medications and melatonin...I have tried them all and they only work temporarily. They are not a long term solution. And my insomnia has been long-term and severe. Last year I regularly would only get two hours a night for a week until occasionally I would relent and take a pill. I haven't taken a pill in over 6 months and have probably averaged 5 hours a night for six months now. So it's been pretty debilitating for a person who usually needs a little bit over 8 a night to feel good. There was a time when I wanted to rely on pills because I was so incredibly desperate. I tried to figure out if I could rotate them so as to avoid building a tolerance. My sweet husband who is a physician and incredibly wise man told me to take them as little as possible. It has been a hard journey but I know it will have been all worth it.... Debp...if you like Christian books then "Hinds Feet on High Places" is a Christian allegory about suffering that I feel represents what God has been doing in my life with this insomnia. I have never read "Pilgrim's Progress," but it is apparently very similar to that. Blessings and praise God for His mercy!! He is trying to make me FEARLESS!!!!!!

Onward, Christian Soldiers By Sabine Baring-Gould Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war, With the cross of Jesus going on before. Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe; Forward into battle see His banners go! Problem: Though subsequent verses make it clear that the "battle" is against sin and the devil, some Christians feel uncomfortable with this hymn's martial tone. http://www.beliefnet.com/entertainment/music/2004/02/sacred-songs-gone-wrong-you-decide.aspx The Master's Voice Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34 Love, Your Brother Joe

I know you said you didn't want advice...but I have one simple suggestion. Simply cast all your care upon the Lord. Tell Him you are giving this all to Him....then leave everything in His hands. God bless you.

Shapes, you need to do this. He is still teaching me how to trust Him. I thought I trusted Him, but then He shows me I have to trust Him more - and believe, no matter what the circumstances are. Our faith does not depend on our circumstances. I am feeling your pain, Shapes - but there is no one except Jesus who has saved you, my friend, and will continue to do so, if you will follow Him.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture imprisoned all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, confined for the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal 3:24 So that the law has become our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

The short version is, that we have a spiritual essence, that is not limited to our body. Some one once said (and some attribute it to C.S. Lewis): "You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." Who ever said it, hit the nail on the head. We are souls who at the moment, live in a body. When the body dies, the soul or spirit (I think they are the same thing, others disagree) continues on, body-less. The soul of the believer, goes to be with Christ, not sure what happens to the soul of the unbeliever. Perhaps 2 Pet 2:9 speaks to this when it says: 9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the Godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment We are told that there is a day coming, where the dead in Christ will be raised and given new bodies, bodies that are eternal. Then there is a 1000 year period when those raised, will reign with Christ. Those who are not raised in the first resurrection are not raised until after that 1000 year period has passed, then they will also be raised to judgement. Some of the details of this are in Rev 20. These sorts of details, are not going to get full explanations in a thread like this, but I thought I would touch on some relevant highlights. I hope that makes it less confusing.

Hi Oz..... No sir, I do not believe......"Because you brought up the fact that innumerable amounts of people have died horrible deaths for their testimony, then I must assume that you believe this can only happen during this time we love to address as the great tribulation." I do not believe that the "Great Tribulation" will be any more SEVERE than the TRIBULATION that our brothers and sisters in the past have suffered. They were boiled in oil, crucified, dipped in wax and used as human torches in Neros garden, sewn in animal skins and torn apart by lions, sawn in half.......etc I believe that the Great Tribulation will be WIDESPREAD, possibly encompassing the whole world. It should be the "Widespread Tribulation"....... You said....."The seven-year period we call the tribulation is God's wrath....." I must disagree with you on this. God's Wrath doesn't begin until the opening of the 7th seal. Then there is the Resurrection, the Rapture, then the Wrath of God. All on the same DAY.......The trumpet and bowl judgments that follow are the wrath of God. In Revelation 6:9, when the 5th seal is opened, the souls under the altar cry out for vengeance, but are told to rest a little longer. God's wrath had not yet begun. His wrath begins with the Day of the Lord.... Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.....Isa 13:9 For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.....Jer 46:10 Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the day of the LORD'S anger none escaped nor remained: those that I have swaddled and brought up hath mine enemy consumed.....Lam 2:22 They will throw their silver into the streets, and their gold will seem like something filthy. Their silver and gold will be unable to save them in the day of the Lord's wrath. They will not satisfy their appetites or fill their stomachs, for these were the stumbling blocks that brought about their iniquity.....Ezek 7:19 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come....Joel 2:31 Joel 2:31 gives us the timing for when the Day of the Lord begins. Its Rev 6:12, AFTER the sixth seal opens. Then look at Rev 6:17...." For the Great Day of his Wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand?" Also, from scriptures we learn that the Day of the Lord is a YEAR long, NOT 7 years ....... Isa 34:8....... For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; Blessings brother.....

In the early 1970s I did some personal evangelism with a pastor who had a ministry, including a radio program, to the Jewish people. One day the Jehovah's Witnesses came calling to the pastor's door. Well, as you know, they usually run into people who do not really know the Bible. Also, once they start talking they just go on and on. Well, of course, Rev. Allensworth really knew the Bible front to back....so they didn't know what hit them and they finally left.

And what did you expect? Did you expect improvements for yourself here and now? I guess you thought your efforts would be a kind of an investment. The relation with God is different. The right way is to be sincere and loving without looking for a feedback.