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A few here mistakenly think those of us who are born again by grace through faith and accept Christ's finished work for our salvation are not walking with Jesus. Over and over they claim we have a license to sin, and therefore are leading sinful lives. Some even claim that we are taught by pastors not to do any works as we are relying on grace. Of course, this is untrue. I've been born again since the early 1970s and have never heard any pastors preaching against doing good works. Rather we were taught to have a quiet time (prayer/Bible reading) with the Lord so we could grow spiritually. Of course growing spiritually includes good works, but we know we are not saved or kept saved by good works. The Holy Spirit is a definite factor in our hearts/lives as we grow spiritually (are sanctified) throughout our lives...it is not just self effort. I hope the few with the above misunderstandings will stop continually perpetuating these untruths. We seek to live holy lives but it is something that comes from our hearts that have been changed by the Lord when we were born again. "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name; which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13.

John 8:29 (NASB) "And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him." “not left me alone” These four words are written to all that would be willing to stand for and with Christ in this world. Against all the onslaught of all that would stand against. “not left me alone” meaning that regardless of what the situation might be, He is always with the believer who does the one qualifying thing that the scripture states; “always does His will” Wait! How can sinful man ever do all His will? What is His will to fallen man? “Come unto me all ye that are heavy laden and I will give you rest” This is the will of God to fallen man, “come onto me.” So if we plug “come unto me” into the “I always do what pleases Him”, we have. “He never leaves me alone, because I always come unto Him” Such words of comfort when things go against what the life of self would have. Such words of comfort when the storms of life prevail on the believer’s heart. Such comfort of truth to the rest of the heart that would always come onto Jesus. Such words of comfort to know one is never left alone, even if all people think that you are. You never are, as one who is called by Him that has died for them. Blessings to all that have tasted of the reality of Christ in them their hope of glory. Blessings, Much love in Christ, Not me

I think each person is different, and God deals with each person differently. Some require a heavier hand, and some continue to torment themselves over the smallest of infractions even after they have been forgiven the offense. I don't think it is possible to put us all in one box, just as a parent of multiple children would tell you that each child required a unique approach, so it is with God's children. Those are my thoughts, for what it's worth. God bless

Then we better ensure what we teach , think or say , totally agrees with Christ , His sayings , the pattern HE set and the apostels set and kept . One who does that , will have no fear on that day . You ever heard the song shall we gather at the river ,, its beautiful huh. Well I have a new one . SHALL we please open ONLY bibles , feasting on those pages daily . We would be amazed at what would occur . Some of these evil vile men we thought were so hateful , WE might actually be like , WOW they really were and are preaching truth . Shall we gather at the BIBLE , the beautiful and wonderful BOOK . Been my call and plea since I first showed up .

i had an epiphany- tell me i you think this makes sense biblically. If God has something in mind for someone, he will give them a desire for it or make them aware of it. So while God may use us (by suggesting or pointing out) to open someones eyes to something it is not for us to try and pry them open by insisting or pressuring if they dont agree or take. So as much we think someone should do something or make a particular choice, if its the one God has or them, they will naturally gravitate to it or get a desire for it. Often we just want them to do what WE think they should and get critical i they dont

Great post. Confirming but comforting words for those who learn the hard way and don't regard His Word. Let this be a lesson learned: "He never leaves me alone because I always come unto Him".

How God saves people are as different as people are different. There is only one consistent element and that is, it is God who draws people to him to be saved, through the working of the Spirit. No one just decides to become a Christian.

You are speaking here about having a living hope....which is often confused with faith. We can grow slowly into righteousness....by following Christ from a distance. There are different glories to the sun, moon, and stars. For most people the daylight is too bright. Most people are looking for an easy way...for the free stuff from God. Very few are willing to pay the price of a follower of Christ. But many follow at a "safe" distance. Large crowds always followed Jesus. The bulk of the church...who are trying to be faithful...are like these. There will always be but a few who enter into Christ by the faith OF Christ. Jesus never lies. Those who abide in Christ will always be a tiny flock. But many will seek to follow from a distance. These do so by maintaining a hope....a living hope. Hope is to maturity what faith is to purity. I hope that this will clear up those misunderstandings. We are indeed saved by hope....like the slow race of a tortoise...that is if we remain faithful till the end. Then there is the walk of faith...which is more like the race of a hare. But faithfulness is required for these as well....as the story of the tortoise and the hare aptly conveys. Humility is key. Let the cautious and feeble among us not claim more than they should. God is looking for humility...not religious defenses.

I would like to be able to comment about this, having experienced something along these lines with a Christian based support group back in the well, never mind when! Could you give a few more details on it, please if you would? Thanks so much. God bless! Shalom, David/BeauJangles

Wisdom isn't opinion. Wisdom, heavenly wisdom does come from the word of God and from his Holy Spirit. Compassion, the gift of saying the right thing also comes from God's Holy Spirit. Scripture is beautiful and filled with wisdom, love and truth. But sometimes more than a scripture is needed though scripture can bring comfort and strength. If scripture is all that is ever needed.... then I guess I would understand why Paul called what he did the foolishness of preaching. But preaching gives insight, instruction and guidance.... it can also give comfort and understanding. So sometimes scripture by itself is not enough. Please don't think I am putting you down for quoting scripture.... I do it myself and if not quoting word for word, I will refer to it. Remember in my original post, I stated that I loved scripture.....

I post scriptures because that is what helps me, and it is what I live by. The Scriptures carry the authority of God. My opinions don't help much. They don't guide, or heal or cleanse. I can grieve with those who grieve and rejoice with those who rejoice. Ultimately it is the Holy Spirit working through God's word that transforms lives.

"turn or burn", is not the Gospel of Grace. This type of religious assault, generally considered "beating someone with the bible", is a really good way to harm and hinder someone's search for the Love of God. Normally, the people who are screeching about 'repent", are baby christians, carnal christians, = self righteous christians. The reality is, people don't generally find God when they are living on the mountain top of life. They usually seek to find God when they are hurting, and that is good because they discover that "Jesus" came to heal their broken heart and ruined life". And one of the things most people will never forget, upon entering into their "2nd Birthday", is ....."God calmed my life-storm....God healed my broken heart".... and when this happens, they don't forget, as there is nothing on earth that can come inside you and take away the misery, the guilt, the pain, the fear, and the anxiety....... Only God can do this, through Christ, and it happens to many who believe, and they never forget what it was like to suddenly have all the heavy heavy weight they were carrying for years, inside themselves, be removed and the peace that passes all understanding replaced this, instantly. This is not something you forget., this is something that seals your faith. This is the "proof" that atheists will never understand, as they are looking for outward proof of God's existence, .... however.... God proves Himself internally, inside you.

A mystery is something that has not been uncovered or revealed. Well that is what we think in modern English. but in the Greek that the New Testament was written in, a msystery is a bit different: Stongs: a mystery, secret, of which initiation is necessary; in the NT: the counsels of God, once hidden but now revealed in the Gospel or some fact thereof; the Christian revelation generally; particular truths or details of the Christian revelation. So yes, the Trinity is a mystery, since the one God existing in eternity as three persons, has been revealed. We may not understand it fully, but we do not need to understand it. We only need to accept what God has said, and realize that for us to understand God fully, is like an ant trying to understand calculus.

Now you all say Jesus is this good man gone a long journey. Beginning in the chapter, God is calling all of this earth(earthly people) to have understanding so connected with you, so that the act of non understanding is kept from you. The man void of understanding is enticed. Proverbs 7:1 My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee. 2 Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye. 3 Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart. 4 Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman: 5 That they may keep thee from the strange woman, from the stranger which flattereth with her words. 6 For at the window of my house I looked through my casement, 7 And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding, To the earthly thinking doing man, they are enticed, by the wickedness of this world, to love it fully. The excuse for doing so in this example, is there will be no problems, no chance of being discovered and caught. Proverbs 7:18 Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves with loves. 19 For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey: 20 He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed. Now this woman is the paths to hell, is the devil, and Christ is not married to that at all, is not that good man. But the kings of the earth have committed fornication with it, and all the inhabitants of the earth are made drunk with the wine of her fornication. But here is the good man I suppose as told, it is the one who let his house be broken up, because he did not watch, exactly as happened in this case, this good man was not watching or caring about what his fornicating wife was doing, this was the point, which we see nobody got., and I think will not. Proverbs 7:24 Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth. 25 Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths. 26 For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her. 27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death. Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. Revelation 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Just in case after I explain you still do not get the point. The Lord comes at an hour you are unaware of. You are that good man of the house, you are the one failing to watch your own house. You are the one joining in with the wickedness of this world, even married to the evil, to the devil, because you did not watch your home to stop the evil that was occuring, you did not watch, so now your title becomes an evil servant, and you will be cut in sunder and have your portion with the hypocrites, unless you can agree with the point being told to you, you will be blessed if you are ruling your household better than that example in Proverbs of the good man away and the wife to play with the fornicators inhabitants of the earth, and just think how many verses you do not know the meaning of then, well it is them all.. Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. 45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Luke 12:36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. 40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. What wickedness you think of Christ to opinion that he is married to an harlot and one with it, instead of know Christ is married with the faithful and one with them! Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 1 Corinthians 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

God will open the door for anything He wants to give someone. He can also close the door. We put the truth out there and God will opens the heart for all those who genuinely want to know Him and ask Him into their life. That is the only role we can play. God is the only one who saves.

May I suggest the example of God's unwilling servant Jonah? What do you think, is the record of Jonah an example of how God gives desire or makes one aware? Does God not insist on His way or else, regardless of one's desire? The difference, in my opinion, is while I may desire someone to do something that I think is God's will for them, I am not God. I am a bond-servant of Jesus, and I do not have direction from God to command the servant of another, but only my own servants, of which there aren't presently any at all.

Hands up my friends , no its not a stick up , ITS A PRAISE FEST TO THE LORD . Its a whole new day and yesterday is gone . Time for more bible reading and diligent seeking of the LORD . Ever increase in the things of the LORD .

With no pretense that I’ve arrived, but may I express great appreciation for the “meat of the most mature-kind”? You once said, “The truth cuts sometimes to the point of offense to get at what is in the way of spiritual growth. Those who don’t see that as necessary also don’t see the offense as constructive.” I thank the Lord for the powerful encouraging words. Maturity IN purity!

Good morning to you! May we all as birds of a feather strive to sing together ....with ALL the brethren (I hope I'm not generalizing here )....all they that are called in the Lord. We seek to be one with Christ. We strive to enter in and walk the narrow way...together. We are members one of another. let us strive to enter into His rest...in the unity of faith striving together for the faith of the gospel. Not just any faith or belief....but the faith that brings the grace of God! Peace

We are to abide these three... Faith, hope and love. One who follows the Lord closely abides all three. One who follows from a safer distance abides hope and is learning to love. Faith..according to Jesus and Paul...does the impossible. This is not to be confused with religious beliefs. Religious beliefs never did anything but label a person according to their opinions. There is NO power in human beliefs. But with Christ ALL things are possible. A person of faith...the faith OF Jesus... lives in this impossibility...to walk as Jesus walked. By faith we enter into the realm of the Spirit and are kept from the temptations of this world. THIS is the saving grace of God....which is by faith. Faith takes us to be with God so that we walk in Him and He walks in us. What the present church lacks is faith.

Brother, ...I hope you don't mind if I say something about this. Paul tells us: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom 10:17 That means God tells us to do something that is totally and completely impossible for us to do or accomplish, ...a good example of this is Jesus telling Peter to get out of the boat and walk on water, the story tells us he started to sink, that's the proof that he wasn't doing it himself, ...he was able to walk on water in faith of what Jesus had told him to do, ...so, whatever God might tell us to do and we step out in faith to do it, God accomplishes it in our lives, ...that's what James calls our works of faith. Many believe they are accomplishing works of faith in doing something for the Lord that He has never told them to do, ...that's called presumption! Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:21-23

Paul said that we are “ saved for good works”.Of course everyone is aware that James said “ faith without works is dead” We must make sure that we don’t put the cart before the horse .Good works do not get or keep us saved....they just naturally flow from a regenerated heart. The reason for all of the sin you see is because nobody is Holy.God considers us Holy if we put our faith in His Son.The born again person has two natures once He Is saved .The old man that loves to sin and the new man who can not sin.it is a life time battle and sometimes the old man wins and it is evident for the world to see. We are saved the instant that we believe in Jesus alone for our Salvation.Other things take a lifetime. Why change if we are seen as perfect in the eyes of God?The Holy Spirit shows us the folly of disobedience and the Wisdom Of Trusting God . When God changes the inside of the cup, it shows.

Jesus said there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth....that sounds like eternal torment to me.

Hello my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, I thought I write about the flip side of a topic, and how to recognize the attempts of the enemy to destroy lives and how you can walk in His victory! For the Apostle Paul taught us not to be ignorant of enemy's tactics and strategies. 2 Corinthians 2:112 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. So often, we can learn lessons by learning and playing "devil's" advocate. When we read this passage, Mar 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strongman; and then he will spoil his house. Here we learn a lesson that in order to plunder one's house you must first BIND up the strongman. While we realize in this particular passage this is referring to God binding up the strongman (Satan) and this is how Satan's house is plundered. But if you carefully analyze the enemy -- you realize that he uses the same tactics on us! Your house cannot be plundered -- unless you are first bound. And then Satan can plunder your house! Let's take a marriage situation. A husband and wife are newly married and they are just getting by. The wife hasn't had a new dress in some time, and while she's out and about -- she stumbles across a dress that is 75% off and a steal! She's in need of some new clothing and thinks to herself -- I should get this while it's soo cheap! Meanwhile, her husband is looking over a mountain of bills and thinking to himself, the only way to get out of this mess is to work "overtime" and starts to figure out how much he needs to work to cover all their bills. When the wife comes home, she's looking fine in her dress and the first thought of her husband -- planted by the enemy -- can you believe that your wife spent money on a dress? Of course, this feeds into his mind and reacts to the thought -- and gets angry at his wife and demands that she take the dress back. So he's ignoring the fact how good she looks in the dress, and ignores how cheap it was -- and allows a foothold to be set! The wife can't believe it -- and let's the emotion burn in her while biting her tongue. A few weeks goes by, and the husband is out and about and sees a fishing rod on sale -- and buys it! The wife sees the new fishing rod -- the enemy then brings back that emotion of what happened a few weeks prior about the dress -- and suddenly she explodes! And now you have the beginnings of how the enemy has taken footholds and then created strongholds -- and for the ultimate purpose of dividing a marriage! Now let's look at Luke and see what lessons we can learn from it. Luk 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. Luk 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: Luk 11:22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils. Luk 11:23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth. If you notice this, the strong man who's armed -- ready for battle -- ready to face whatever comes his way -- he's living in PEACE! If we recognize the first steps of the enemy's work in our lives -- knowing he's trying to create footholds -- you'll begin to understand why? He can't rob, kill and destroy you -- unless you are FIRST bound up! So we need to be armed with the Word, armed with the knowledge of the enemy's tactics, and be ready to defend what is rightfully ours! We need to take authority over the powers of darkness because that authority was given to us at the cross! Luk 10:18 And he said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Luk 10:19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. Luk 10:20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven." So we fight the good fight of faith, standing in His victory and be ready to pounce on every thought that is not of God -- that is being used to BIND US up! Be prepared to battle today -- put on the full armor of God -- and be ready to pounce on every thought that would seek to create a foothold in your life! When you do this, truly you will become a strong man who's possessions are at perfect peace! Your brother in the Lord with much agape love, George

Shalom everyone, I'm actually surprised that I've never done a topic on the Kingdom of God. I always preach on it, so I'm going to start a discussion. I'd appreciate it, if when discussing we could stay on topic. So many threads get started, and go into left field, right field, and every field except the discussion. To really dive into the message of the Kingdom, you have to understand that it was the ENTIRE message preached by Yeshua (Jesus). While many focus on "salvation" and while this is the ENTRANCE into the Kingdom -- the salvation message, is just the beginning of the bigger message that Yeshua was preaching! When you realize that Acts begins and ends with the Kingdom Message, perhaps we should dive deeper into the understandings. Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? Acts 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him. So this is what this discussion is going to talk about -- the message of the Kingdom. Your brother in the Lord with much agape love, George

I was going to take some pics to share with someone, mostly so they could get an idea of proportions, etc. and save me a lot of descriptive typing. I decided, I could share the pictures here, then others could see also. This is going to be a picture heavy post, if you have a slow connection, you might want to skip this one. Edit: I should add, that when I am not feeling too lazy, I add some chopped onion and cilantro to this, if I am not adding fresh salsa that already has those in it. Also, sometimes I use french fries, or tater tots, or scalloped potatoes instead hf hash browns.

Hi RarexxRose, I would say put up boundaries when relating to people in a meeting situation. Also be careful of your expectations of others. A meeting run by a religious organisation is public, and as such is limited in what it can do. I would suggest you cultivate a friend or two and meet for coffee or a meal and get to know each other. Marilyn.

Not having any idea what you mean, but seeing that it is something that bothers you: Go to the pastor and/or those treating you this way and ask them why. Pray before you go that you will say the right thing and that everything will be resolved.

We pass people on the street every day that are just as evil as Hitler.....Hitler had the Power to perform his griZzly deeds..... Members of hate groups that exist today all over the globe would do what he did and worse if they had the Power to do so as Hitler did.....think KKK and Aryan Nation members .... Hitler is roasting in Hell right now,not because of his sins....Jesus paid the price for ALL sins....Hitler lacked that one think that lets one benefit from Christ’s Finished Work Of the Cross....Faith in Jesus Christ as Savior...

You put those hands up dear sister . And just praise the Lord .

Hi, Yes I agree that each will be surprised that God means what God has stated, and they had heard in all that they had seen and also heard throughout life, but rejected. The "surprise" may be much like having regret for an end result, but without remorse for rejecting God, (I think - just an attempt at thinking it through). I am simply amazed and in awe every day that I was turned about from my own sin against God without my ever wanting God until the Holy Spirit paid me a terse comeuppance visit. Even then it was a capitulation, a "if that's true I want it" reaction to the Holy Spirit experience, and not a seeking of God by me at all. All of God alone and none of me.

Thank you. I agree that nobody should insist on anyone to repent. Especially so when those who think of others forget their own repentance. Now I understand you perfectly.

Considering the variety of posters you will get all kind of discussions on Worthy. Worthy is one of the biggest Christian forums on the internet. My concern is that of the new believer. They need the truth and you do not always see that on Worthy. You need Christian discernment when posting on Worthy. We are in the end times and perhaps the end of the end times. There is not a lot of love and peace in our world right now. Satan is the prince and power of our world and certainly on Worthy. It will get a lot worse before it gets better......unfortunately.

That's understandable but it would be tragic. I hope you stay for your sake and the sake of the benefit you can bring to others. If you feel the Father wants you to leave then cool. But let no foolish behaviour chase you away from the service you can still do for Him in here.

I have not seen much of the argueing & fighting although I did start a post & got blasted for it, I do agree that debate should be considered but yes I think that you are going to have a lot of argueing & fighting but if it gets to the point where people are trolling & calling each other names then yes it's not healthy, I will stay on here as long as I can but if it gets to the point where I have to leave then i'll leave but I like the fellowship & discussions here

Why thankya kindly Friend!

anyone who denies the clear Biblical statements that the fire is torment and not consuming clearly is of an agenda apart from the authority of Scripture... and making jokes of it clearly declare the spirit of the concept… I am not surprised this is wrong assessment as well... God's Word is the authority here and throughout the eternity... that is the proper assessment of what I wrote!

so how will we perish and worm does not? Isa 14:11 Mark 9:44-49 Rev 14:10-11

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You know, it seems to be happening everywhere these days, including my own little Baptist Church. I don't recall such a great division and lack of respect and courtesy in the church (Christians) growing up as I do today. I believe it's one of the signs of the times; and the Bible calls it apostasy. Satan never misses an opportunity to deceive, plant strife and confusion, or angst between God's children. Unfortunately, I personally don't see anything getting better from here on out, only getting worse.

Christian sites have always had those who come in to challenge the beliefs of the members. That is expected, and even welcomed. How else will they hear the truth? Some are trolls, but others are not. But, I think you are talking more about the members who are Christians that continue to battle with each other. It seems that more and more people have studied the scriptures and developed their own theology, which is normal and can be a really good step forward. What is not an act of maturity in Christ is when they close and lock their theology and will not consider that they may be wrong, often degrading a question posted to them into a heated debate that includes name calling, insulting and even questioning someone's salvation. That is an act of pride and arrogance, not one where people reason together. I would suggest when a conversation begins down a negative path, speak the truth and then turn away. An argument needs two sides. If one walks away, the argument stops. If you do decide to do the mature thing and realize that the discussion is going nowhere and leave, don't be drawn back in when someone posts something negative to you last post, usually coming in a way of trying to have the last word in proving how wrong your words are. Let them stand on their own merit. If they are the truth, others will see it. Never have a closed mind, as if you hold the truth and if anyone disagrees with you, they are wrong. Everyone is in a different place in Christ, some just beginning, usually very zealous, and others more mature, usually calmer and more reserved. Yet, even Paul tells us that we see through a glass darkly, or in a mirror dimly. Nobody on any site holds the truth 100% of the time.

Yes I quoted it myself so that you would question it... What happens when someone dies, their spirit and soul leave the body, there is no longer any light in their eyes, the physical body is dead and the spirit and soul are separated from it, so death, in the Biblical sense, is actually a separation, ...that is what the Holy Spirit calls the first death, ...those who will stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgement will be cast into outer darkness, separated from God for all of Eternity, ...that is what the Holy Spirit calls the second death. To clearly understand, the wages of sin is death (seperation), we need to remember Paul only had the Old Testament to draw from, so the Holy Spirit used it to enlighten him, to use the spiritual illustrations that are found in it, ...so let's look at Gen 2:17, the first place we find the word die in the Bible: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die die. ומעץH6086 הדעתH1847 טובH2896 ורעH7451 לאH3808 תאכלH398 ממנוH4480 כיH3588 ביוםH3117 אכלךH398 ממנוH4480 מותH 4191תמות ׃ H4191 Hebrew OT w/ Strong's # Gen 2:17 αποG575 PREP δεG1161 PRT τουG3588 T-GSN ξυλουG3586 N-GSN τουG3588 T-GSN γινωσκεινG1097 V-PAN καλονG2570 A-ASN καιG2532 CONJ πονηρονG4190 A-ASN ουG3364 ADV φαγεσθεG2068 V-FMI-2P απG575 PREP αυτουG846 D-GSM ηG3739 R-DSF δG1161 PRT ανG302 PRT ημεραG2250 N-DSF φαγητεG2068 V-AAS-2P απG575 PREP αυτουG846 D-GSM θανατω G2288 N-DSM αποθανεισθε G599 V-FMI-2P Greek OT w/ Strong's # Notice in the Hebrew the last two words mûth mûth, to die, both have the same Strong's number. In the Greek the last two words are different, but carry the same meaning: thanatos - death - and apothnēskō - to die off But don't believe me, I've given you the Strong's numbers, ...look them up for yourself. So to paraphrase what God said to Adam: ...for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely be dying and you will die! Isn't that the Truth? From the moment of conception we begin to die until we reach the number of days that are written in the book of how long we will live, ...then we die. So what the Holy Spirit is saying in Romans 6:23 is because of our sin we are storing up a payday, and when that day comes we will die, separated from our body and then at the Last Judgement we will receive in full our wages of/for sinning which is separation from God. ...But, He goes on to tell us: ...the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. We earn our eternal punishment, ...but we can choose eternal life which is the Gift of God. That's why we say: Born twice, die once, ...born once, die twice... Lord bless

Unless you believe you will likewise perish. John the Baptist said who told you to flee from the wrath of God.

“ BE” turned, or burn.... Turning over a new leaf saves nobody BEING turned from sin by an indwelling Of God’s Holy Spirit....... now that’s a horse of a different color!

That's Arminian doctrine, ...completely 180° opposite of the Gospel of Grace!

Just a little recap, we begin to see the stream of faith, branching off the FALSE KINGDOM of man (Nimrod aka Babel or Babylon) and the TRUE KINGDOM based on FAITH. 1Ch 1:24 Shem, Arpachshad, Shelah; 1Ch 1:25 Eber, Peleg, Reu; 1Ch 1:26 Serug, Nahor, Terah; 1Ch 1:27 Abram, that is, Abraham. So we see the stream of crossing over -- the HEBREW which is connected to EBER, and EVERIT (Hebrew) which is connected to Abraham. As we continue the genealogy and how faith is connected to the KINGDOM ... we come to JACOB. Gen 32:25 When the man saw that he did not prevail against Jacob, he touched his hip socket, and Jacob's hip was put out of joint as he wrestled with him. Gen 32:26 Then he said, "Let me go, for the day has broken." But Jacob said, "I will not let you go unless you bless me." Gen 32:27 And he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob." Gen 32:28 Then he said, "Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed." Gen 32:29 Then Jacob asked him, "Please tell me your name." But he said, "Why is it that you ask my name?" And there he blessed him. Gen 32:30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, "For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered." So here we HAVE A NAME CHANGE. We see this is a pre incarnate wrestling with Yeshua (Jesus) and this is when JACOB's name is changed to ISRAEL. כט וַיֹּאמֶר, לֹא יַעֲקֹב יֵאָמֵר עוֹד שִׁמְךָ--כִּי, אִם-יִשְׂרָאֵל: כִּי-שָׂרִיתָ עִם-אֱלֹהִים וְעִם-אֲנָשִׁים, וַתּוּכָל. 29 And he said: 'Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel; for thou hast striven with God and with men, and hast prevailed.' Now the word ISRAEL is יִשְׂרָאֵל. So let's break down the word to understand it's deeper meaning. שְׂרָ -- SAR -- which means RULER (sometimes translated Prince) אֵל -- EL -- which means GOD יִשְׂרָאֵל -- which literally means GOD WILL RULE. We come to understand it as one who strove with God and prevailed when you realize that the same root -- שְׂרָ (ruler) is in the word STRIVEN. So ISRAEL -- and its connection with the Kingdom is that God will RULE! For 400 years, Israel lived without a KING! God was ruling and it was changed with Saul, then David. But as with all things, how ISRAEL began, so ISRAEL will end with GOD WILL RULE! Continuing...

Now the name Eber -- עֵבֶר in Hebrew is the root of the word HEBREW. יג וַיָּבֹא, הַפָּלִיט, וַיַּגֵּד, לְאַבְרָם הָעִבְרִי; וְהוּא שֹׁכֵן בְּאֵלֹנֵי מַמְרֵא הָאֱמֹרִי, אֲחִי אֶשְׁכֹּל וַאֲחִי עָנֵר, וְהֵם, בַּעֲלֵי בְרִית-אַבְרָם. 13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew--now he dwelt by the terebinths of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner; and these were confederate with Abram. So now we begin to see the significance of the name -- Eber -- it's the beginning of the ones that CROSSED over. The first one that "crossed over" and became a HEBREW was Abraham, or the Father of FAITH! Rom 4:16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, Rom 4:17 as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations"—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. ....continuing the study...

When God created everything, it was perfect. It was set up to be a Kingdom of God, however man fell at the garden. The very first time we see the word KINGDOM in the Bible it's actually referring to Man's Kingdom. Gen 10:8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. Gen 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD. Gen 10:10 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. So here we have Mankind for the first time trying to establish his own kingdom -- WITHOUT GOD. Soon thereafter, we have the dispersion of the nations, and we have our FIRST clue about the coming Kingdom of God. What's interesting begins in Genesis 10:21. Gen 10:21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born. What's interesting that Genesis 10:21 bypasses quite a few people. Genesis 11:10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood: Genesis 11:11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters. Genesis 11:12 And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah: Genesis 11:13 And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters. Genesis 11:14 And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber: Genesis 11:15 And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters. So if we have the genealogy in Genesis 11 -- and in Genesis 10 it actually bypasses a few people so God wants us to PAY ATTENTION to Genesis 10:21 in detail. Continuing...