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While the scriptures are true, the ones you cite above, there still is no proof of timing, is there? But wait...there is, 1 Cor 15:52"... at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,". If this is the highly touted rapture of the Pretrib doctrine then isn't there a timing problem? 1 Thess 4 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matt 24 the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, Luke 21 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Mark 13 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. If 1 Thess 4 is the 'rapture' then is must be after great tribulation as 3 Gospels tell us pretty much the same thing happens after GT. So how does your belief Matt 24 is for Israel only square with 1 Thess 4? The same event is described by both Paul and Matthew yet one is for the church and one is for Israel? Where do you think Paul got this to write it to the Thessalonians? Directly from Jesus. You are in error in this. You will soon see. The beast is coming for the church.

And, as Amos says: Surely the Lord God does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets. Amos 3:7 So we have Zechariah 9: Then the Lord will appear over them, [in the clouds] And His arrow will go forth like lightning; [Seventh trumpet - Rev 11:19] And the Lord God will blow the trumpet, [the trumpet of God] And will march in the storm winds of the south. Zechariah 9:14 It all lines up.

Hi Eliza, Thank you for sharing something so personal. Good & brave step. Now it seems to me you really are trying to work out what is of God and what is of man, his organisations etc which over the past few years have become controlling and teaching much error. I think you need to start very slowly and come to know the Lord personally in your everyday life and leave all your expectations and man`s expectations that have been put upon you. Go slowly, let the dust settle and the waters will come clear. I am at the moment going through the Bible in the blog area and I think you may be surprised at how it all focusses of Christ. We are told so many do this and don`t do that things that what really the Lord said to us, not to Israel, becomes clearer. all the best, praying, Marilyn.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believed in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

“Teacher”, said the Student, “I have tried what you suggested, I have tried over and over. Prayed about it with tears even and it doesn’t seem to work. I am convinced of the Scriptural accuracy of the teaching. I have memorized all the appropriate verses. But when I apply them. There’s no strength or power in them. They are like dead words. I find myself giving into my fallen nature again and again.” The Teacher responded “Blessed are you that you have given yourself totally and completely to this doctrine. For it is most true and the only way given onto man that He might overcome the old man and his deeds. Your problem is not that you don’t intellectually know this truth, for you most certainly do. But the problem is it’s only a thought in your mind. As information stored in a book. It has all of your mind and that’s a good and proper thing. For it must be there first. But for the teaching to produce it’s fruit it must be moved from the mind to the Spirit. For only the Spirit can correctly discern and apply the teaching. The student interrupted the Teacher. “but Teacher how can I get the information from my head to my heart.” The teacher smiled, and said, “this hunger you have after the things of God, if you keep this hunger alive and well feed, is the first forming of Christ in you. It will in time teach you all you need to know. For the Spirit that has been made to dwell in you is more willing to teach you than you are to learn. Only at any and all cost keep this hunger after God as your most important possession. For it is certainly Gods gift to you. By it He is drawing you to Himself.” After hearing this the Students heart was refreshed, purposing to give Himself even more diligently to his personal relationship with Christ. For He saw with a new clarity that this relationship, with Christ, was Christ being formed in him. Much love in Christ, Not me

I am so happy for you. And his love never ends !

More fellowship is needed if there is to be solid believers here witnessing to the lost and vastly confused.

And sister , YOU LOVED lil abby . You loved .

Whenever I hear that God loves me I am so happy because I know I did a lot of bad things and to know that am forgiven is a joy. It says so in John 3:16

Brother, this thing you say is a grave error. Listen: Galatians 3 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. That you don't get this is baffling. If we are in Jesus Christ we are the seed of Abraham. Like Isaac. And Jacob. And David. And Jesus. This separation of Israel and the church shows a lack of spiritual insight. If you are not of the seed of Abraham then you are not an heir. No promise is to you. Call on our Father to arrest this downward spiral and seek the mind of Christ.

I once heard someone say, "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts." You should look into this.

The idea that the church of today will be with Him when He "comes in the clouds" [Zech 14:5], but the seven churches, which existed 2,000 years earlier in the days of John, were to look for the event in Revelation 1:7 based on Zechariah 14:5 is a difficult position to take. One would have to prove that the churches of John's day are not essentially the churches of today. When and where did churches morph into different churches? Also, Zechariah 12 is speaking of the day of the Lord. I have made certain portions bold to make my point. Zechariah 14:1-7 ¶ Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, ... 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; ... 3 Then shall the LORD go forth, ... 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, ... ye fled from before the earthquake ... 5 ... and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. Zechariah's description of the day of the Lord sites some very unique and specific events all of which are all consistent with Christ's Second Advent. Nothing in that passage puts verse 5 before the tribulation. The Lord's feet stand on the mount, Jerusalem is surrounded, and there is an earthquake. Here is a list of the earthquakes mentioned in Revelation. (Re 6:12; Re 8:5; Re 11:13,19; Re 16:18) None of these events are supposed to be occurring at the secret coming and rapture of the church, but they are all happening in Zechariah 12.

It is true that there is a false everything. For until a believer knows how to be “lead by the Spirit of God” he will be lead by his human reasoning (self). Doing what looks or seems right to him at any given moment of time. For there are only two options, “self” or “Christ.” All are lead by one or the other. It’s only one’s personal relationship with Christ that can teach a believer to move on from self to be lead by the Spirit of Christ in them. Much love in Christ, Not me

And I realize folks really like to use that "in Christ there is no Jew or Gentile" thing. They seem to forget the other part.... "there is neither male or female". Now, if they really take the "there is no Jew or Gentile" thing so seriously and like to apply it to the physical world, then do the same with the latter and prove it by having a bunch of men and women stand up in front of the Church during a meeting and strip and then try to make the case that there is neither male or female. True, in the spiritual sense there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Messiah, but that is not true at the physical level. There are Jewish Believers and Gentile believers, just like outside the church there are Jews and Gentiles. Even Paul, in Romans 9, 10, and 11 is speaking of physical Israel. He does say that not all of Israel are Israel, that not all have the faith of Abraham which is the distinguishing mark of a "true Jew". But they, physical Israel, are beloved because of the fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the promises belong to them.

I find it interesting that Judas is referred to as the son of perdition, not a son of perdition. The coming man of sin is also referred to as the son of perdition. The definite article points to one specific son of perdition with two different appearances in time. Maybe Judas is brought back to life? Or maybe it's a reference to Satan who entered Judas and will enter the man of sin (pretending to be Judas?) Interesting possibilities.

The race is to stand firm till the end. Witnessing is tough work and there would be robbers and thieves and impostors along the way. The believer has to stand for the gospel and like the martyrs gone by, may even have to give up their lives. Fight the good fight of faith. Does not matter who come and spread what doctrines here, it is your duty to stand for the word and proclaim it. Evil has to flee in the midst of righteousness. With that said, keep the faith and we know you would be reading the post at times and you did say you may be back. God bless and keep us in your prayers.

Welcome to the apostasy, the first step on the road to Jesus' return. So many "churches" have turned away from sound doctrine and truly following God's will. All you can do is keep searching. Although this site isn't exactly a church, it's a good start. Get connected with believers here! You need encouragement from your brothers and sisters. And keep looking in your area for a local body of believers that truly teach and live God's word out. God will surely deliver you from this time of testing; pray daily for Him to do so, and to remind you of how trustworthy He is each day too! God bless you, sister!

Pray for this new girl, and your "bestie." God has called you to act a certain way, regardless of how it would be received by others. Would you steal or sleep around because your friend expected it of you or because you were afraid to lose her approval? Probably not. You must not treat this new girl in a wrong way because your friend expects it either. Follow God; if this best friend cannot respect that and leaves you, then that is the price for following God. It is hard but it is the only right choice. God bless you in this situation!

The seventh angel sounded his trumpet,and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.” that's the beginning of the Christ 1000 year reign

May I suggest a visit to this site to help you get a handle on things and get some relief and assurance in your walk with Christ...... get gods gift org. God bless you and know that many here are praying for you.

Modern Israel is indeed the Israel of scripture and was predicted when it would come into being.... before the first return from Babylon. Ezekiel 4.... poor old Zeke is required to lay on one side then the other, for a total of 430 days. Each day to represent one year that the entirety of Israel was to be punished. When the Southern Kingdom was taken into captivity by Babylon, all the tribes were in that group. The books of the Chronicles and Kings have many references to the faithful of the northern tribes migrating to the south at various times to join with the Southern Kingdom. So the lost tribe idea has no legs and the idea is the equivalent of what comes out of the south end of a north bound buffalo. When the remnant returned from Babylon, they were called Jews 11 times and Israel 22 times by Ezra. Nehemiah called then Jews 8 times and Israel 40 times. Again, all the tribes were present. 70 of those years ticked off in the Babylonian captivity. When allowed to return, only a remnant did so. The majority remained in Babylon where they had built homes, businesses, jobs, etc. That majority was in rebellion to God at that point, because God says that when the people of Israel are not in the Land, they are profaning His name. Ezekiel 36:20 Now, that being said, if Israel remained in rebellion, which they were by not all returning, then their punishment would be multiplied 7 times, per Leviticus 26:18. 430 years, minus the 70 in the Babylonian Captivity, is 360 years. 360 years multiplied by 7 is 2520 years. 2520 years on the Hebrew Lunar Calendar is 907,200 days. 907,200 days on the 365.25 day Solar Calendar we commonly use is 2483.78 years. The decree by Cyrus for the Hebrews to return was given in early fall 537BC. That would be -536.3 for math calculation purposes. -536.3 plus 2483.78 is 1947.48. We have to add 1 to that, since there is no "zero" year between BC and AD. That gives us 1948.48, or roughly May 1948, when Israel became a nation. They had never been a sovereign independent nation with a common government from the start of the Babylonian Captivity until May 1948. Even during the Hasmonean period when they were not controlled by outside countries, they were just a sectarian mix of interests and not one unified country. When modern Israel became a nation in 1948, 80% of the Jews in the land were Sabras, or long time generational Hebrews who had lived in the land since the Babylonian times. Even during the Crusades of the Middle Ages, the Crusaders killed many Jews in the land. 20,000 were burned alive in one instance in the Great Synagogue of Jerusalem while the Crusaders marched around it singing "Christ We Adore Thee". Some Crusaders had contests to see how many Jewish babies they could get on a sword. The church is not Israel. That dog just won't hunt. And YHWH is a God who remembers His promises. If He isn't faithful to remember His promises regarding physical Israel, then He can't be trusted to remember His promises to any of us.

Hi mabel, So true. Just shows that God is interested in everyone, no matter what station of life. And that He can change us, even though we have given up on ourselves. Marilyn.

Everyone pay HUGE HEED to this . THIER is a false peace ensuing many, its done through this mid eastern new age blend of meditation . And I have spoke to a few of them. AND THEY JUST THINK they on cloud nine and have this peace, YET teach things like GOD is in all religions , or support gay marriage and other things . THIS SISTER is RIGHT . THIER is such a thing as a false peace . FEELINGS and justthat , FEELINGS . ALL THINGS must be tested BY GOD , HIS HOLY WORD .

Ain't no two peoples,you belong to one tree or the other...

This. I'm now 64. In 1982 I had no college, but was tired of working retail. I went to a COBOL school that involved four nights a week for ten months and it cost me $2,300. This skill took me forward to today and got me a solid six figure income. I did abandon the coding about 12 years ago because of the influx of cheap Indian labor. I went into Business Analysis because it is communication intensive, something you can't farm out to people who can barely speak English. It was a seamless transition and what I'll almost certainly be doing when I retire in a couple of years. College is not necessary. What's necessary is to learn a skill that is in demand and then continue to learn.

A helpful prayer, likely some here have prayed.

I'd forgotten about this. I am studying 3d animation now, which I like better than web coding, and have very high hopes.

oooooh yes please tea with Jesus and your goodself and maybe toasted teacakes thrown in!

Steven, serving tea looking like that is gonna frighten a whole mess of folks . come now , I thought I done told ya . You cease scaring those kids now .

Anyone who actually reads all relevant information from scripture about Jesus return, and keeps in mind all the facts from all the relevant information, will conclude one gathering only occurring at the same time as Jesus one and only 2nd coming. Any other conclusion is based in desire and not truth.

Hello Angels that’s very kind of you to say . MG thread caught me at a raw moment. Gee I am so in need of some good friends irl. But I have the Lord! I am still learning the bible and have much to learn. But I do know this much that very little in life has meaning or value apart from the bible Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth So yeah in short the world is not perfect and this forum aint perfect and I most definitely aint perfect

Laments there are plenty, solutions there is but one. Jeremiah's Complaint 12 Righteous are you, O Lord, when I complain to you; yet I would plead my case before you. Why does the way of the wicked prosper? Why do all who are treacherous thrive? 2 You plant them, and they take root; they grow and produce fruit; you are near in their mouth and far from their heart. 3 But you, O Lord, know me; you see me, and test my heart toward you. Pull them out like sheep for the slaughter, and set them apart for the day of slaughter. 4 How long will the land mourn and the grass of every field wither? For the evil of those who dwell in it the beasts and the birds are swept away, because they said, “He will not see our latter end.” The Lord Answers Jeremiah 5 “If you have raced with men on foot, and they have wearied you, how will you compete with horses? And if in a safe land you are so trusting, what will you do in the thicket of the Jordan? 6 For even your brothers and the house of your father, even they have dealt treacherously with you; they are in full cry after you; do not believe them, though they speak friendly words to you.” 7 “I have forsaken my house; I have abandoned my heritage; I have given the beloved of my soul into the hands of her enemies. 8 My heritage has become to me like a lion in the forest; she has lifted up her voice against me; therefore I hate her. 9 Is my heritage to me like a hyena's lair? Are the birds of prey against her all around? Go, assemble all the wild beasts; bring them to devour. 10 Many shepherds have destroyed my vineyard; they have trampled down my portion; they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness. 11 They have made it a desolation; desolate, it mourns to me. The whole land is made desolate, but no man lays it to heart. 12 Upon all the bare heights in the desert destroyers have come, for the sword of the Lord devours from one end of the land to the other; no flesh has peace. 13 They have sown wheat and have reaped thorns; they have tired themselves out but profit nothing. They shall be ashamed of their harvests because of the fierce anger of the Lord.” 14 Thus says the Lord concerning all my evil neighbors who touch the heritage that I have given my people Israel to inherit: “Behold, I will pluck them up from their land, and I will pluck up the house of Judah from among them. And after I have plucked them up, I will again have compassion on them, and I will bring them again each to his heritage and each to his land. 16 And it shall come to pass, if they will diligently learn the ways of my people, to swear by my name, ‘As the Lord lives,’ even as they taught my people to swear by Baal, then they shall be built up in the midst of my people. 17 But if any nation will not listen, then I will utterly pluck it up and destroy it, declares the Lord.” Yes indeed, if a few footmen are too much to race against to prosper the gospel of Jesus, what will one lamenting do when the horsemen come through the thrushes? “If you have raced with men on foot, and they have wearied you, how will you compete with horses?"

Don't leave me sister . you always been loved .

Hi Mabel, I always enjoy reading your posts and know that your heart is very sincere, I can just sense it I believe if we lived closer we could become friends I appreciate you very much! God bless you, dear sister I'm sure that now George is back he will have a close look on everything which is posted and where people are with their walk with the Lord, I know he wants all people to become saved and hear the gospel, and that is really our Christian duty isn't it? To preach the gospel to the lost before it's too late! I'm not much for arguing for the sake of arguing, that is silly, it's not very Christ-like to be trying and to be rude, instead of building yourself up a person will be brought low as this is really all vain and puffiness But at the same time, we have to stand firm at the truth and not to go by teachings of men, the B-I-B_L-E is the book for me

For a while I was about ready to board that get-out-of-Dodge stagecoach myself. What stopped me is it seems the mods finally got rid of the cultists who seemed to dominate every thread on Worthy for a few months. I guess if I could change anything, it would be somehow to make full-gospel people like me feel a little more welcome here, but really, that's more of a heart issue than a mod issue. For now, I'm staying.

Guess I am rubbish. Come to think of it that is the second lady to say so in recent times. Hillary Rodham-Clinton said it too.

Please rethink your decision , We will miss you !!! Who would be our Morning Glory flower?Worthy will not be the same without you,please rethink your decision and pray about it? Love you Morninglory ,may God bless you richly and someday soon ,we meet on that beautiful shore ! ( ((((Hug))))

Hi MG, So sorry to hear that. We haven`t spoken much in the past, however I do know what you are saying as I miss the ones I knew and who have gone. Anyway there are some really nice, godly people (newish) here and if you take the time to get to know them you would be encouraged. I don`t get involved with too many discussions, but save my sharing on PM`s and certain areas. As you have been on for like centuries, (lol) then of course you would miss heaps of people. all the best, Marilyn.

I worked very hard for a long time and had a farm eventually. Obamacare forced early retirement due to 3x normal medical insurance rates. Slowly it all went down the tubes - lost farm (CH7); family disowned me - I moved countries and have a portion of my retirement to live on is all. I now have a roof and food enough. I am far better than a friend's lawyer and family who were all murdered in Africa over christmas. I am still alive after a long and dangerous life. I am NOT complaining. It is what it is! So be happy with what you have and make the very best of it you can. Do not blame others for your own shortcomings and do not covet other people's wealth and situations. Unless you walk a year in their moccasins you have no right to pass any kind of judgement on them anyway. (Indian Proverb)

You are trying to seperate things that can never be seperated, the children of the church are the children of Israel, for the entire point of Israel is for God to have a nation that believes in HIM. This is why the remnant of Israel is and has always been Christians. This is why God makes the distinction that "Not all who are in Israel are of Israel", those who are circumcised outwardly are NOT part of the kingdom because they do not accept Christ. You keep on trying trap what is spiritual inside a body wherein the entire point of a soul is that it doesn't have a body, hence why God can find his remnant of Israel among the heathen nations. He isn't looking for outward circumcision, he's not concerned with geneolgies as the pharisees are. This is also what confounded the pharisees when they kept trying to claim physical ancestry to Abraham. Are you still hearing but not understanding? "As I urged you on my departure to Macedonia, you should stay on at Ephesus to instruct certain men not to teach false doctrines 4 or devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculation rather than the stewardship of God’s work, which is by faith." 1 Timothy 3-4 The ONLY way to gain sanctification is through Jesus Christ (I.E circumcision of the heart). Anyone that says they are a Jew and rejects Christ as messiah is lying and pulling the age old trick that the pharisees use. Just because you know that someone is going to murder you doesn't mean it's not murder if you willingly give up your life, God used the evil behind the pharisees (which ultimately leads to Satan) to make his sacrifice more profound and to find his children Israel. He made himself low to find those whom are the last, whom shall be the first of his kingdom. His sacrifice also exposed that not all who are in Israel are of Israel. Most of this is true, with exception to what you mean by "Jew" and what I mean by Jew. I'll take Christs definition over yours. You know why the current "Israel" does not, and shall never see peace. Prophecies are being fulfilled, now are you going to side with the pharisees (and Satan who leads them) or with Christ? In ALL the rebellions against God, you see a group of men pretending to be holy in their attempts to destroy the kingdom from within, First it was Satan and his fallen angels, then it was the Pharisees in Israel, then it will be Anti-Christs within Christianity, whom are the extension of those pharisees whom ultimately are an extension of Satan and his gang. By their fruits you shall know them.

Christians want the American dream so they can buy a house and have a family like most other Americans Not THIS ONE . I could give a care less if I lose it all, according to most preachers and this AMERICAN DREAM paul would have been seen as one of the biggest losers , as would many of the apostels. FORGET the America dream. IF YOU TRULY HAVE CHRIST.............................men can sing even in prison , on the run IF their desires are truly above on HIM. MAN I hope that encouraged you and reminded you it aint got nothing to do with this world or its things..........the simple fact one as wicked as i once was , was by grace saved and changed , That alone gives us all the rejoicing we need , even if we lose all. HEARTS ABOVE .