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    • I said "literal"  not "face-value."   Jesus also said he was the sheep gate.  That doesn't mean he is made of wood and has hinges.   Surely you know the difference between taking something literally and taking something at face-value.   When the Bible uses figurative devices, those devices point to a literal meaning.   The whole purpose of interpretation is to get at the literal meaning.  We want to know what the author means.  It's the author that supplies the literal meaning of the passage.   John uses figurative devices, but those devices are pointing to the literal meaning of the text.     Figurative interpretations leave it up to the reader to decide what the text means.    And depending on the readers, there would be thousands of different understandings of the text.   The goal in reading the Bible and studying it is to do so in the light of the object that the author has in view: The literal meaning.   Figurative devices like metaphors, similes, and symbols are tools to that end.   Which further demonstrates your fundamental lack of understanding of what literal means.  Jesus said that John literally fulfilled that prophecy.  John's ministry was in the spirit of Elijah.  John was who God had in mind to fulfill that prophecy and it was fulfilled literally by John. How is Jesus' kingdom is not of this world and even when it established on this earth, it will not be "of" this world.  It comes from heaven.  Being on the earth and being of this world are two diffrerent things.  You clearly have not demonstrated that any prophecy was fulfilled in a non-literal manner. And as for claiming that I think my thoughts are with error....   That is a lie you have repeatedly assigned to me, not something I ever said.  That's a personal attack you use against me when you can't refute or address my comments in a mature manner. 
    • Thanks so much Bluebird! Very powerful !  ..... this shows well how it IS the KING reaching down from Heaven to us.  I looked up other videos about the story of this family and felt so touched and blessed! Thanks again for sharing this!!
    • so you believe there is a literal sword coming out of Christ's mouth? 
      it's not stated otherwise. 

      the book of Revelation is not like the other books of the Bible. the first paragraph of the book literally states otherwise. it is a revelatory vision of things that will come - John writes this using exactly the same language that Daniel & Ezekiel do before proceeding to give entirely figurative and symbolic visions. John literally states that he is in the spirit as he hears and sees these things. he sees and hears visions and these things are told to him and explained to him by an angel, just as in Daniel. if this is all to be read literally, then so is Daniel -- but it is not. your interpretation, which is the most common interpretation of our day, so that 99% of you have heard this all your lives, is predicated on ignoring the very thing that John himself says about the book: that it is a revelatory vision. 

      not all prophecy is literally fulfilled. consider that Elijah is John the baptizer. this is not the literal fulfillment. Christ too came to usher in a kingdom, which contrary to the literal interpretation of prophecy, is not of this world. have you not learned anything from this? but of course you haven't -- because you state that "no prophecy was ever fulfilled in any other manner" -- which is false; i just gave you two counterexamples. 
      so much for the thoughts of the man whose thinking is without error.  



      now someone tell me please, 
      what is the significance of the exact order and content of the list of tribes given in Revelation 7? 
      thanks
       
    • That's backwards.  It should be taken literally unless it is demonstrated otherwise.  The default approach to biblical interpretation is that a text is taken literally, unless stated otherwise.   Revelation is not a figurative text.  It may use figurative devices but those devices are used to point to a literal truth and we are to look behind the device to understand the literal truth it is meant to convey. All prophecy is fulfilled literally.   We have no place in the Bible where any prophecy was ever fulfilled in any other manner.  So even prophecies have literal meanings, not figurative ones.
    • does anyone think that the specific order and contents of the list of tribes given in Revelation 7 is not important and can be summarily dismissed as simply ' a list of ethnic Jews given in no particular order' ? 

      if you do not believe that this is inconsequential, then please let us know why the tribes are listed in this precise order and with these precise designations. 

      because if it is important, then doesn't it make sense that it is also important to understanding the identity of these 12*12*1,000 and the purpose of John having heard in revelatory vision exactly this list and not some other? 

       
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