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Give Up Credentials? Yes or No?

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15 replies to this topic

#1
Waiting2BwithHim

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The Rev. Frank Schaefer, a Methodist pastor near Philadelphia who was recently suspended for officiating his gay son's wedding in 2007, said at a press conference Monday that he will not voluntarily turn over his religious credentials, challenging the church to either defrock him or let him remain a reverend and voice for the LGBT community.

"I cannot voluntarily surrender my credentials because I am a force now for many, for tens of thousands of LGBT members in our church," Schaefer said at a news conference Monday in Philadelphia. Schaefer was supposed to either surrender his credentials by Thursday or vow to never perform a same-sex marriage again. 

Schaefer went on to say that he cannot uphold the United Methodist Church's teaching regarding homosexuality because he finds it discriminatory. The church's Book of Discipline states that it accepts gays and lesbians but does not condone homosexual practices, saying they are "incompatible with Christian teaching."

"In particular," he said, "I cannot uphold those discrimantory laws [...] that are hurtful and harmful to our homomsexual brothers and sisters in the church." Schaefer added that he doesn't think anyone can uphold the Book of Discipline in its entirety.

"[The church has] the power to either defrock me," he said, "Or keep my credentials in place, thus affirming me as a LGBT voice in the church."

"I am actively committing to having those discriminatory laws changed and banished from our Book of Discipline," Schaefer said. "That's the only way I can reconcile being a United Methodist at this point."

 

Schaefer was put on a 30-day suspension after he officiated his son's wedding to his same-sex partner back in 2007 at a ceremony in Massachusetts. The suspension was given to Schaefer following a church trial and was meant to serve as time for the reverend to decide whether he wants to follow church doctrine or not.

The pastor has previously argued that he officiated his son's wedding in spite of the church's view on same-sex marriage "because I love him so much and didn't want to deny him that joy." He added that as a pastor he is "charged to minister to all people, regardless of who they are and what they are, then it should be just so."

Schaefer is scheduled to meet with church authorities on Thursday, and he said the ideal outcome of this upcoming meeting would be for the leaders to allow him to continue leading his congregation in Lebanon, located 70 miles outside of Philadelphia. The pastor added he has been contacted by other denominations, mainly Episcopal and United Church of Christ, offering him a pastor position if he is removed from the Methodist Church.

Those who support the Methodist church's current teaching on homosexuality argue that Schaefer and others supporting same-sex marriage are a poor representation of the denomination. The Rev. Thomas A. Lambrecht, vice president and general manager of Good News, an evangelical Methodist group, previously said that those ministers who violate the church's law "have decided to take the law into their own hands, so to speak, and go ahead and violate the requirements of our (Book of) Discipline."

"They have in a sense renounced the process that we use to determine what the church believes about things. I don't think that is the appropriate way to handle disagreement," Lambrecht added.

 

http://www.christian...entials-110902/

 

Should he have to give up his credentials? Should he have officiated his son's wedding?



#2
Butero

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The church leadership made a ruling, and that should be the end of it till he shows himself insubordinate again.  At that time, the church will have to decide how to deal with things.  The fact he is openly speaking out against the church would seem to give them grounds to increase his punishment, but ultimately, this is up to the people that govern the church.  I must say that I am surprised at the slap on the wrist he got for going directly against the church's teachings, and I don't understand why the Methodist Church would allow him to remain under these circumstances, but once again, it is their call. 



#3
Sevenseas

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The Rev. Frank Schaefer, a Methodist pastor near Philadelphia who was recently suspended for officiating his gay son's wedding in 2007, said at a press conference Monday that he will not voluntarily turn over his religious credentials, challenging the church to either defrock him or let him remain a reverend and voice for the LGBT community.

 

 

Doesn't matter would be my thought on the matter.  The man does not know that homosexuality is an affront to God.  It is not a witness to support gay marriage

or any other type of supposedly gay religious or church matter by officiating and agreeing with their sin.

 

Take...don't take...surrender...don't surrender...papers...in the end, no church body will be the final Judge anyway. 

 

 

 

"In particular," he said, "I cannot uphold those discrimantory laws [...] that are hurtful and harmful to our homomsexual brothers and sisters in the church." Schaefer added that he doesn't think anyone can uphold the Book of Discipline in its entirety.

 

 

he can always start his own church.  At least there is a distinction being made between what man calls discriminatory and God calls sin.  Not going to get better...



#4
Parker1

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The "minister" is quoted as saying that he officiated his son's wedding in spite of the church's view on same-sex marriage "because I love him so much and didn't want to deny him that joy." What he seems to have forgotten, or ignored, is that in doing so he has grieved the Holy Spirit. He is supposed to be a "man of GOD," sworn to uphold the Truth of Scripture and be "a light unto the world." While I believe that just having homosexual "feelings" or "desires" in and of itself is not a sin, engaging in sexual relations with a person of the same sex is. Nothing is a sin until one takes action upon it, or if it causes another person to sin. And since being "wed" to another person usually brings with it sexual relations, one can assume that this "minister" has endorsed this particular sin and in fact participated in it. This is just another example of the type of "christian" that Christ will spew out of His mouth.



#5
PrairWarur

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The Reverend Doctor Lester Sumrall made this statement concerning homosexuality; "We can love them, but are we going to love them straight into hell?"  I have paraphrased his quote as I could not find, nor do I remember his exact words.  Still, this is very close to what he said and I understand his meaning.

 

To condone the actions of homosexuality under the guise of "loving them so much",  to me is the same as giving them a death sentence, and in this case, eternal death.  ie. separation from God.

 

If this man loved his son as he said, I think he would be quite concerned about his eternal life and salvation.  His actions do not support that he even believes God.  Maybe he thought these were special circumstances since it involved his own child?  I see this as being a major problem and faulty thinking on the part of this preacher and supposed "man of God."  Taking his credentials is the least of his worries, but it is time that the church stood up for what is right and refuses to go along with a sinful society.

 

I wonder if he would have treated any other sin in this way?  Such as, "My son is a thief, so I want laws changed to accommodate him"?  Seems absurd, yet for me there is no difference.  Sin is sin and God can have no part with sin, and yes, there is sin which involves no actions but merely thoughts.  Don't be confused on this, because Jesus said to look upon a woman with lust in your heart is the same as adultery, and also to hate is the same as murder.  These two examples of sin do not involve direct actions, only thoughts.  I understand that there are the sins of commission and the sin of omission, too.  I believe the Scripture says that when we know the right thing to do and do not do it, then that is sin.

 

I was very blessed by George's message in the Worthy Brief which comes to my e-mail.  Today's message was on "murmuring" against Moses and ultimately, God.  Again, I will paraphrase, so forgive me, please, if I am wrong, but what I understood was that we often focus on the "major sins", for instance, murder and adultery, and forget the sins of the heart and mind, such as lusting, hatred, etc.  We also seem to overlook gossip and strife, yet God found these things as abhorrent as any other sin.  There is no such thing as a big sin or a small sin, there is just sin.  Period!  God can have no part of sin at all, that is why He sent us Jesus Christ.

 

We cannot bend the rules to fit ourselves and our families.  We cannot overlook God's Word and attempt to change it for our own purposes.  Something I have seen lately is the church wanting to bend these rules and suggest that certain Scriptures are outdated and do not fit with the times we are in.  I am troubled by the fact that good people have started to think and believe differently as they begin to embrace homosexuality and abortion.

 

I have stated before, and I fully believe that love should be our constant guide, that our words should be sweet and seasoned with grace, but the truth is the truth and when we see our brother or sister in sin, true love will tell them the truth, and not bend the rules because it may be family, or someone we hold dear.  Nor, should we worry about losing their respect for us.

 

In the end what is really the most important is not whether or not we are loved and respected by others, it is if we have allowed someone to continue in sin without warning them that they are at risk for eternal damnation. 

 

As long as the truth is stated in love there are no worries, but I have to question the type of love that would allow our children, family members, friends, and even strangers, to continue in sin and not give them a warning.  I think it is better to stand for the truth of God and risk alienating a friend or loved one, than to have to stand before God and attempt to explain why we did not tell them the truth and allowed their sinful practice to continue.

 

May the peace of God be with you all, amen.

 

In His Service,

PrairWarur

 



#6
shiloh357

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This pastor's papers ought to be pulled and he should be stripped of being a pastor.  He is a reproach to the ministry.



#7
GlidingWings

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This Pastor has no right to keep the Methodist Church hostage to his own personal convictions.  . This is not a DC debate of correctness of making solutions.  . The Church is an establishment that represents God and this teaching Denomination. I agree with Butero who said he got a light slap on the wrists. I say get him out of there. This man is a perversion of the Church accepting same sex Marriage Biblical in the Eyes of God.

 

Whose son does this Pastor love the Son of God or his own son? Jesus said love not your Mother or Daughter more than God. For then you are not worthy of God.

 

Matthew 10: 34-39NKJV

 

Christ Brings Division

34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’[e]37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

There is only one solution. Let this man believe the way he wants but let him believe elsewhere. I believe if Jesus was in this Church He would be flipping tables and chasing them out. . Jesus would say don’t use my Father’s house as a place to support the very abominations God detests. Don’t bring God to this lifestyle. I have no hatred toward the pastor. I hope he will learn one day the truth. Let the believers of this Church get right on track again.



#8
kwikphilly

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Blessings Everyone!

    So I suppose with his distorted way of thinking if his son was heroin addict he should buy him drugs?Why not,he wouldn't want to deny him of that joy!This man is OF the world & an advocate of the enemy....My question is,why is this going on for 7 years?he performed this ceremony 7 years ago & he was only recently suspended.......ridiculous!

                                                                                                                                              With love,in Christ-Kwik



#9
shiloh357

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Blessings Everyone!

    So I suppose with his distorted way of thinking if his son was heroin addict he should buy him drugs?Why not,he wouldn't want to deny him of that joy!This man is OF the world & an advocate of the enemy....My question is,why is this going on for 7 years?he performed this ceremony 7 years ago & he was only recently suspended.......ridiculous!

                                                                                                                                              With love,in Christ-Kwik

The United Methodists are very liberal and I suspect he was suspended because of the bad press and for the purpose of PR and public image, not out of any moral outrage. 



#10
kwikphilly

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Blessings Brother Shiloh!

     That makes alot of sense for allowing so much time to pass.Are they really THAT liberal?Do you think if the press never got wind of the story that they would have tolerated this?

                                                                                                             With love,in Christ-Kwik



#11
JustinM

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The Pastor is serving Man instead of God.  If a pastor reaches a point in his life where he begins serving a different master, he should no longer be trusted as a Pastor and should be relieved of his title/authority in the church.

 

A pastor is supposed to be a shepherd and guardian of his flock, this pastor is letting the wolves in.



#12
JustinM

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update:  He was defrocked.  http://www.foxnews.c...on-gay-wedding/



#13
other one

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What is this world coming to.....    A pastor loosing his position for going against his church's stand on Homosexuality and the head Duck Dynisty person gets suspended and could loose a very well paying job for speaking out against something our Bible condemns......   what is this I see......  maybe a small glimmer of hope for our people.



#14
JustinM

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A glimmer, maybe.  What's next after homosexuals and their supporters get everything they want, will they leave quietly in the night?  What noble cause will society pursue next?

 

Will society bring back gladiator games and feed the remnant of the church to the lions?

 

Progressives are so focused on the now, they can't see that they are repeating history.  The future, to them, only spans from one small social victory to the next.



#15
Qnts2

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I have some friends who are members of the UMC. One is a pastor. It has been several years since I have communicated with them, but at that time, the UMC was in the middle of a major battle.  

 

There are a few UMC churches which can be considered fundamental in belief. The UMC statement of faith was very old and was Calvinistic and fundamental. The UMC in the U.S. tends to be liberal in belief, except for those few churches. At one point, they intended to change their statement of faith to be more liberal. That required an international vote of the membership. At that time, the UMC in Africa was experiencing a revival, and the membership was 'fundamental'. Although the African delegation did not normally attend the international meeting, for this particular meeting, they showed up in force and blocked the changes proposed by the normally majority U.S. delegation. The few conservative UMC churches in the U.S. were celebrating the African delegation. 

 

Knowing this history, and that some of the conservative U.S. UMC churches are in Pennsylvania, I have a suspicion that this pastor was trying to force a more liberal view in the UMC in the U.S.



#16
AFlameOfFire

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I think pastors can give licenses for legit marraiges, but in this incidence wouldnt it fall under giving a license to sin?






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