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Understanding Hebrew Roots means...

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Yes, but not the kind of distinction you are trying to make.  You are trying to make "spriitual Jew" refer to a believing Gentile and the Bible doesn't make that kind of distinction.

 

 

That is why your teachings are so deceptive.  The most successful and pernicious deceptions are the ones that use the Bible.   Paul is telling ethnic Jews that their true Jewishness inwardly and not found in their ethnicity, Torah observance or ceremonies.

 

The TRUE Jew is not a Gentile believer.  The TRUE Jew is the Jew who let's his life become a praise to the Lord. 

 

 

Well said. I agree.

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Shiloh357

 

Not the Jewish people per se, but it comes of them in the sense that they are vehicle through which God is bringing salvation to the world in the Person of the Jewish Messiah, Jesus. 

 

No God is not and this smacks of universalism, God ONLY brings salvation to the Israelites, the entire purpose of Jesus dying on the cross was to redeem Israel ONLY and NOT the whole world. The fact you state the Jewish people as a "vehicle" of this salvation, makes the Jews a corporate saviour of the world in other words a corporate messiah, which is false teaching and completely foreign to the bible.

 

No where in the Bible does God make any other covenants even with the new covenant of Jesus with any other race of people but only with Israel, they alone are promised eternal life, resurrection and the inheritance of a heavenly kingdom here on earth.

 

Paul is telling ethnic Jews that their true Jewishness inwardly and not found in their ethnicity, Torah observance or ceremonies

 

This needs to be further cleared and is in reference to the debate around the circumcision, Paul was arguing with the fact that the "gentiles" who by the way where actually the dispersed gentile Israelites (Big difference between ETHNO and HELLEN) and not a debate about the Hellenistic non - Israelite gentiles..as there is much confusion with the word gentile being used. Those Greek speaking dispersed Israelites lost there traditions, religion and so forth, the ones who wanted to come back to the fold where uncircumcised and the debate was for them not to be considered "gentile" they would need to be circumcised, however Paul was reminding them this OLD Covenant was now done away with and they no longer need to be circumcised.

 

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Shiloh357

 

Not the Jewish people per se, but it comes of them in the sense that they are vehicle through which God is bringing salvation to the world in the Person of the Jewish Messiah, Jesus. 

 

No God is not and this smacks of universalism, God ONLY brings salvation to the Israelites, the entire purpose of Jesus dying on the cross was to redeem Israel ONLY and NOT the whole world. The fact you state the Jewish people as a "vehicle" of this salvation, makes the Jews a corporate saviour of the world in other words a corporate messiah, which is false teaching and completely foreign to the bible.

 

No where in the Bible does God make any other covenants even with the new covenant of Jesus with any other race of people but only with Israel, they alone are promised eternal life, resurrection and the inheritance of a heavenly kingdom here on earth.

You are misreading what I said.  I said nothing about universalism.   The Jews were the means God used to bring Jesus into the world and thus make salvation available to all.  How is that "universalism?"  Universalism is the notion that all people will be saved and I never said that.

 

I didn't say that Jews are corporate Messiah.  I am saying that they were God's vehicle or "means" by which He brought Jesus into the world.  You need slow down and read instead of making these silly accusations. 

 

Paul is telling ethnic Jews that their true Jewishness inwardly and not found in their ethnicity, Torah observance or ceremonies

 

This needs to be further cleared and is in reference to the debate around the circumcision, Paul was arguing with the fact that the "gentiles" who by the way where actually the dispersed gentile Israelites (Big difference between ETHNO and HELLEN) and not a debate about the Hellenistic non - Israelite gentiles..as there is much confusion with the word gentile being used. Those Greek speaking dispersed Israelites lost there traditions, religion and so forth, the ones who wanted to come back to the fold where uncircumcised and the debate was for them not to be considered "gentile" they would need to be circumcised, however Paul was reminding them this OLD Covenant was now done away with and they no longer need to be circumcised.

 

That is complete nonsense.

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shiloh357

Interesting....I read carefully what you said, you just didn't like my answer.

 

I am saying that they were God's vehicle or "means" by which He brought Jesus into the world.

 

Nope that's not true. The sole reason for Jesus coming into the world was to ONLY redeem Israel. Which I'll show in a bit.

 

Have a look here and this is where the challenge is with your statement

Hebrews 8:8-10: "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the LORD; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people."

 

As per your statement where does it say in Hebrews 8:8-10 God is to bring salvation to the world? And the Jews are to be used as a vehicle for this? I don't see anywhere where the world is to partake of this new covenant of salvation? When this world never partook in the Old Covenant of Salvation to begin with.

 

The notion that Israel has become a vehicle or means to which God could bring Jesus to the world, explicitly makes Israel a corporate Savior to the world, which is not the case. Jesus came to Redeem Israel and that's it. Jesus is a personal savior He does not need a means or vehicle or any form of other corporateness to save the world.

 

The sole reason why Jesus came and had to die on the cross was, without going into too much detail and legal side of things was God issued a certificate of divorce to the house of Israel, remember God married Israel at Mt Sinai. Now in order for God to get his beloved ex wife back he needs to first redeem her. God would need to find a legal way to do so

 

"After he is sold he may be redeemed again. One of his BROTHERS may redeem him; or his uncle or his uncle's son may redeem him; or anyone who is NEAR OF KIN to him in his family may redeem him or if he is able he may redeem himself" (Leviticus 25:48-49).

 

This was what Jesus role was, lawful redeemer. God was buying by this legal statute with the price of blood his wife back, his property....there is nothing that shows or even suggest or indicates Israel was to be used instead as a vehicle or some sort of means to bring salvation to the world, its simply not true.

 

That is complete nonsense.

 

If you could be kind to show where I have spoken complete nonsense, it would help me to reply back with an answer to justify you responding to my post as well as clarity. However I suspect you find the notion of an Israelite can be referred to as gentile nonsense?

 

Well lets have a look:

 

In the OT the Hebrew word for "Gentiles"  is gowy

Strongs Concordance of the bible

 

01471 gowy {go'-ee} rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee} apparently from the same root as 01465; TWOT -- 326e AV -- nation 374, heathen 143, Gentiles 30, people 11; 558 n m 1) nation, people 1a2) OF DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM 1a3) OF ISRAEL 1b) pf swarm of locusts, other animals (fig. n pr m 1c) Goyim? = "nations"

 

So Gowy can mean nation, people and even very interesting Descendants of Abraham and Israel

 

So if we for example look at Gen 12:2 I will make thee a great gowy / I will make thee a great gentile / I will make thee a great nation

 

Lets look at the greek word for Gentile

Ethnos:  1484 ethnos {eth'-nos} probably from 1486; TDNT 2: 364, 201; n n AV -- Gentiles 93, nation 64, heathen 5, people 2; 164

 

As you can see it's the exact same word, the exact GREEK equivalent of the Hebrew word Gowy which also means people or nation

 

but wait there is another greek word for Gentile and its used only 27 times in the bible

Hellen 1672 Hellen {hel'-lane} from 1671; TDNT -- 2: 504, 277; n m AV -- Greek 20, Gentile 7; 27

1) a Greek either by nationality, whether a native of the main land or of the Greek islands or colonies 2) in a wider sense the name embraces all nations not Jews that made the language, customs, and learning of the Greeks their own; the primary reference is to a difference of religion and worship.

 

"Hellen" as you can see has a different meaning to ETHNOS and GOWY

 

So when Paul speaks of the gentiles which one is he speaking about the the Hellen NON Israelite gentile or Ethnos/Gowy (israelite gentile)

 

Two tests for you. WHO is a Gentile

 

No 1 WHO is a Gentile?

"For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, BY NATURE do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them."

 

Hebrews 8:10: "For this is the COVENANT that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."

 

Is the gentile a non israelite gentile or a israelite gentile that Paul refers to?

 

NO 2 WHo is the Gentile?

Cornelius the Roman

 

A Israelite or a Gentile?

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shiloh357

Interesting....I read carefully what you said, you just didn't like my answer.

 

I am saying that they were God's vehicle or "means" by which He brought Jesus into the world.

 

Nope that's not true. The sole reason for Jesus coming into the world was to ONLY redeem Israel. Which I'll show in a bit.

 

The Bible says it very plainly:  "For God so loved THE WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believes upon Him will have eternal life." John 3:16.

 

that is, in Christ God was reconciling THE WORLD to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. II Cor 5:19

 

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. I John. 2:2

 

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of THE WORLD  I John 1:29

 

They said to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of THE WORLD."  John 4:42

 

Sorry, but the Bible says that Jesus is the Savior of the world and I have plenty biblical witnesses for that.  Your teaching is false.  All TRUE followers of Jesus will reject what you teach.

 

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shiloh357

Interesting....I read carefully what you said, you just didn't like my answer.

 

I am saying that they were God's vehicle or "means" by which He brought Jesus into the world.

 

Nope that's not true. The sole reason for Jesus coming into the world was to ONLY redeem Israel. Which I'll show in a bit.

 

Have a look here and this is where the challenge is with your statement

Hebrews 8:8-10: "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the LORD; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people."

 

As per your statement where does it say in Hebrews 8:8-10 God is to bring salvation to the world? And the Jews are to be used as a vehicle for this? I don't see anywhere where the world is to partake of this new covenant of salvation? When this world never partook in the Old Covenant of Salvation to begin with.

 

The notion that Israel has become a vehicle or means to which God could bring Jesus to the world, explicitly makes Israel a corporate Savior to the world, which is not the case. Jesus came to Redeem Israel and that's it. Jesus is a personal savior He does not need a means or vehicle or any form of other corporateness to save the world.

 

The sole reason why Jesus came and had to die on the cross was, without going into too much detail and legal side of things was God issued a certificate of divorce to the house of Israel, remember God married Israel at Mt Sinai. Now in order for God to get his beloved ex wife back he needs to first redeem her. God would need to find a legal way to do so

 

"After he is sold he may be redeemed again. One of his BROTHERS may redeem him; or his uncle or his uncle's son may redeem him; or anyone who is NEAR OF KIN to him in his family may redeem him or if he is able he may redeem himself" (Leviticus 25:48-49).

 

This was what Jesus role was, lawful redeemer. God was buying by this legal statute with the price of blood his wife back, his property....there is nothing that shows or even suggest or indicates Israel was to be used instead as a vehicle or some sort of means to bring salvation to the world, its simply not true.

 

That is complete nonsense.

 

If you could be kind to show where I have spoken complete nonsense, it would help me to reply back with an answer to justify you responding to my post as well as clarity. However I suspect you find the notion of an Israelite can be referred to as gentile nonsense?

 

Well lets have a look:

 

In the OT the Hebrew word for "Gentiles"  is gowy

Strongs Concordance of the bible

 

01471 gowy {go'-ee} rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee} apparently from the same root as 01465; TWOT -- 326e AV -- nation 374, heathen 143, Gentiles 30, people 11; 558 n m 1) nation, people 1a2) OF DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM 1a3) OF ISRAEL 1b) pf swarm of locusts, other animals (fig. n pr m 1c) Goyim? = "nations"

 

So Gowy can mean nation, people and even very interesting Descendants of Abraham and Israel

 

So if we for example look at Gen 12:2 I will make thee a great gowy / I will make thee a great gentile / I will make thee a great nation

 

Lets look at the greek word for Gentile

Ethnos:  1484 ethnos {eth'-nos} probably from 1486; TDNT 2: 364, 201; n n AV -- Gentiles 93, nation 64, heathen 5, people 2; 164

 

As you can see it's the exact same word, the exact GREEK equivalent of the Hebrew word Gowy which also means people or nation

 

but wait there is another greek word for Gentile and its used only 27 times in the bible

Hellen 1672 Hellen {hel'-lane} from 1671; TDNT -- 2: 504, 277; n m AV -- Greek 20, Gentile 7; 27

1) a Greek either by nationality, whether a native of the main land or of the Greek islands or colonies 2) in a wider sense the name embraces all nations not Jews that made the language, customs, and learning of the Greeks their own; the primary reference is to a difference of religion and worship.

 

"Hellen" as you can see has a different meaning to ETHNOS and GOWY

 

So when Paul speaks of the gentiles which one is he speaking about the the Hellen NON Israelite gentile or Ethnos/Gowy (israelite gentile)

 

Two tests for you. WHO is a Gentile

 

No 1 WHO is a Gentile?

"For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, BY NATURE do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them."

 

Hebrews 8:10: "For this is the COVENANT that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."

 

Is the gentile a non israelite gentile or a israelite gentile that Paul refers to?

 

NO 2 WHo is the Gentile?

Cornelius the Roman

 

A Israelite or a Gentile?

 

 

The term Goy means nation or people group. Gentile means not-Israel or non-Jew. Israel is a nation/goy. Egyptians are a nation/goy. Any people group is a goy. In scripture, most of the time, the scripture refers to goy(im) which are non-Israel people groups. Goyim is plural for Goy. But in one or two places, Israel is also called a nation/goy.  Just because Israel is a nation/goy, does not mean that other goyim/nations are Israel.

 

Earlier, on another thread, I posted that one of the mysteries was that Gentiles would be fully included in the New Covenant. It is a mystery because it is hinted at in the OT, but made very plain in the NT.  

 

Concerning Peter's visit to the house of Cornelius:

 

Acts 10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

 

Acts 11:17 Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”

 

Acts 13:47  For so the Lord has commanded us,

‘I have placed You as a light for the Gentiles,

That You may bring salvation to the end of the earth.’”

 

So, does the OT mention that the Gentiles will come to the Messiah as a prophesy? The simple answer is yes.

 

Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

 

Isaiah 42:6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

 

Isaiah 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

Jeremiah  16:19 O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

 

So, scripture does prophesy that the Gentiles would come to the Messiah. What is not shown is the status of the Gentiles when they come to the Messiah (a mystery), but in the minds of the Apostles, that Gentiles received the Holy Spirit meant that they were accepted as equals in the New Covenant with the same blessings offered in the New Covenant.   Gentiles are not Israel, and Israel is not Gentile. Both become part of something new, One New Man. Again, a mystery until is was revealed fully in the NT.  

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shiloh357

Interesting....I read carefully what you said, you just didn't like my answer.

 

I am saying that they were God's vehicle or "means" by which He brought Jesus into the world.

 

Nope that's not true. The sole reason for Jesus coming into the world was to ONLY redeem Israel. Which I'll show in a bit.

 

The Bible says it very plainly:  "For God so loved THE WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believes upon Him will have eternal life." John 3:16.

 

that is, in Christ God was reconciling THE WORLD to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. II Cor 5:19

 

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. I John. 2:2

 

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of THE WORLD  I John 1:29

 

They said to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of THE WORLD."  John 4:42

 

Sorry, but the Bible says that Jesus is the Savior of the world and I have plenty biblical witnesses for that.  Your teaching is false.  All TRUE followers of Jesus will reject what you teach.

 

 

 

We need to make one thing very clear it is YOUR teaching I am testing.

 

The logical next step was to present the "world" concept. So lets test this.

 

From who's prospective is "THE WORLD" being viewed from? Yours or from God's view, which is an Israelite view, an Israelite world?

 

Your view of all nations and all races to be saved contradicts Hebrew 8:8-10 as well as the following:

 

John 17:9-10: "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them."

 
Jesus does'nt pray for the world to be saved but for Israel because Israel glorifies God and Jesus, how do I know this 
 

 

Isaiah 48:10-12: "I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction. For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

 
Lets have a look at Paul when he prayed
Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved”  -- (Romans 10:1).
Paul prays for Israel to be saved not "THE WORLD"  from your prospective but the world of Israel
 
Acts 26:6-7: "And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come."
 
"THE WORLD"  from your prospective of all races and all nations does'nt seem to be included 
 
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@Qnts2

 

The term Goy means nation or people group. Gentile means not-Israel or non-Jew. Israel is a nation/goy. Egyptians are a nation/goy. Any people group is a goy. In scripture, most of the time, the scripture refers to goy(im) which are non-Israel people groups. Goyim is plural for Goy. But in one or two places, Israel is also called a nation/goy.  Just because Israel is a nation/goy, does not mean that other goyim/nations are Israel

 

and yet the Hebrew word for gentile gowy also refers to the DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and IRSAEL

01471 gowy {go'-ee} rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee} apparently from the same root as 01465; TWOT -- 326e AV -- nation 374, heathen 143, Gentiles 30, people 11; 558 n m 1) nation, people 1a2) OF DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM 1a3) OF ISRAEL 1b) pf swarm of locusts, other animals (fig. n pr m 1c) Goyim? = "nations"

 

and yet the hebrew word for gentile gowy also refers to the DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and IRSAEL ( Sorry for repeat but it needs to drummed in)

 

In scripture, most of the time, the scripture refers to goy(im) which are non-Israel people groups. Goyim is plural for Goy. But in one or two places, Israel is also called a nation/goy.  Just because Israel is a nation/goy, does not mean that other goyim/nations are Israel

 
That's not what I'm saying what I'm saying, whenever the words "nation" or "nations" appear in the Bible, its translated as "Gentiles." It means the same thing and is the SAME word. The translators of our Bibles used the word that was best suited for a particular scripture. The problem is we are all  programmed to think that the word"gentile" can never refer to Israelites and vise verse but yet as we can see the definition of "Gentiles" in Strong's Concordance (#01471) INCLUDED the physical seed-line of Abraham and Israel with non-Hebrew people. 
 
To deny this is simply one who does not want to seek the truth or refuse to accept the truth.
 
With regards to your interpretation Concerning Peter's visit to the house of Cornelius
 
You need to clearly define which "gentiles" are being addressed here in the verses you provided as either Ethnos or Hellen?
 
Acts 10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. (Ethnos or Hellen?)
 
Acts 11:17 Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.” (Ethnos or Hellen?)
 
Acts 13:47  For so the Lord has commanded us,

‘I have placed You as a light for the Gentiles, (Ethnos or Hellen?)
That You may bring salvation to the end of the earth.’” 

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shiloh357

Interesting....I read carefully what you said, you just didn't like my answer.

 

I am saying that they were God's vehicle or "means" by which He brought Jesus into the world.

 

Nope that's not true. The sole reason for Jesus coming into the world was to ONLY redeem Israel. Which I'll show in a bit.

 

The Bible says it very plainly:  "For God so loved THE WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believes upon Him will have eternal life." John 3:16.

 

that is, in Christ God was reconciling THE WORLD to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. II Cor 5:19

 

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. I John. 2:2

 

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of THE WORLD  I John 1:29

 

They said to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of THE WORLD."  John 4:42

 

Sorry, but the Bible says that Jesus is the Savior of the world and I have plenty biblical witnesses for that.  Your teaching is false.  All TRUE followers of Jesus will reject what you teach.

 

 

 

We need to make one thing very clear it is YOUR teaching I am testing.

 

The logical next step was to present the "world" concept. So lets test this.

 

From who's prospective is "THE WORLD" being viewed from? Yours or from God's view, which is an Israelite view, an Israelite world?

 

Your view of all nations and all races to be saved contradicts Hebrew 8:8-10 as well as the following:

 

John 17:9-10: "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them."

 
Jesus does'nt pray for the world to be saved but for Israel because Israel glorifies God and Jesus, how do I know this 
 

 

Isaiah 48:10-12: "I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction. For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

 
Lets have a look at Paul when he prayed
Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved”  -- (Romans 10:1).
Paul prays for Israel to be saved not "THE WORLD"  from your prospective but the world of Israel
 
Acts 26:6-7: "And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come."
 
"THE WORLD"  from your prospective of all races and all nations does'nt seem to be included 
 

 

Before I go any further let me explain to what I am hearing in your posts.   This is what I am taking away from what you are posting:  "God never intended to save anyone but ethnic Jews/Israelites.  The non-Jewish, non-Israelite Gentiles were never intended by God to be the recipients of salvation.   God is only interested in those people are ethnic members of the physical twelve tribes of Israel and the concept of "world" only extends to the physical, flesh and blood Israelites.  God doesn't love anyone else and salvation is not for anyone else outside of national. physical Israel."

 

That is what your teachings come off as.   Either you are clumsy and lack competence or you are teaching a grossly false doctrine.  So, before I report your posts to the moderators, I will give you one opportunity to publicly clarify your position.

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shiloh357

 

Interesting...

 

I have stated my position very clearly, I am testing your teaching

 

Your teaching seems to contradict the scriptures I have provided....at this stage you are more than welcome to treat me as someone who is "clumsy" and "incompetent", as a child of the world I don't profess to know everything and I am certainly humbled to learn.

 

If you could please explain the contradictions

John 17:9-10: "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them."

 

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved”  -- (Romans 10:1).
 
Acts 26:6-7: "And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come."
 
Trying to get this deleted or reported doesn't make these scriptures go away, what are we to do with these scriptures?
 
.........................................................................
"Before I go any further let me explain to what I am hearing in your posts.   This is what I am taking away from what you are posting:  "God never intended to save anyone but ethnic Jews/Israelites.  The non-Jewish, non-Israelite Gentiles were never intended by God to be the recipients of salvation.   God is only interested in those people are ethnic members of the physical twelve tribes of Israel and the concept of "world" only extends to the physical, flesh and blood Israelites.  God doesn't love anyone else and salvation is not for anyone else outside of national. physical Israel."
.........................................................................
 
No, unless God has chosen you individually or you are a chosen people (Israel) will have salvation
 
John 6:44: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:"
 
 
You may also wish to report the bible is also Israelite
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shiloh357

 

Interesting...

 

I have stated my position very clearly, I am testing your teaching

 

Your teaching seems to contradict the scriptures I have provided....at this stage you are more than welcome to treat me as someone who is "clumsy" and "incompetent", as a child of the world I don't profess to know everything and I am certainly humbled to learn.

 

If you could please explain the contradictions

John 17:9-10: "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them."

 

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved”  -- (Romans 10:1).
 
Acts 26:6-7: "And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come."
 
Trying to get this deleted or reported doesn't make these scriptures go away, what are we to do with these scriptures?
 
.........................................................................
"Before I go any further let me explain to what I am hearing in your posts.   This is what I am taking away from what you are posting:  "God never intended to save anyone but ethnic Jews/Israelites.  The non-Jewish, non-Israelite Gentiles were never intended by God to be the recipients of salvation.   God is only interested in those people are ethnic members of the physical twelve tribes of Israel and the concept of "world" only extends to the physical, flesh and blood Israelites.  God doesn't love anyone else and salvation is not for anyone else outside of national. physical Israel."
.........................................................................
 
No, unless God has chosen you individually or you are a chosen people (Israel) will have salvation
 
John 6:44: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:"
 
 
You may also wish to report the bible is also Israelite

 

So God only chooses physical Jews to be saved?  Jesus only died for the physical members of the Twelve tribes of Israel???  Is that what you are saying?

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shiloh357

 

Interesting...

 

I have stated my position very clearly, I am testing your teaching

 

Your teaching seems to contradict the scriptures I have provided....at this stage you are more than welcome to treat me as someone who is "clumsy" and "incompetent", as a child of the world I don't profess to know everything and I am certainly humbled to learn.

 

If you could please explain the contradictions

John 17:9-10: "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them."

 

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved”  -- (Romans 10:1).
 
Acts 26:6-7: "And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come."
 
Trying to get this deleted or reported doesn't make these scriptures go away, what are we to do with these scriptures?
 
.........................................................................
"Before I go any further let me explain to what I am hearing in your posts.   This is what I am taking away from what you are posting:  "God never intended to save anyone but ethnic Jews/Israelites.  The non-Jewish, non-Israelite Gentiles were never intended by God to be the recipients of salvation.   God is only interested in those people are ethnic members of the physical twelve tribes of Israel and the concept of "world" only extends to the physical, flesh and blood Israelites.  God doesn't love anyone else and salvation is not for anyone else outside of national. physical Israel."
.........................................................................
 
No, unless God has chosen you individually or you are a chosen people (Israel) will have salvation
 
John 6:44: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:"
 
 
You may also wish to report the bible is also Israelite

 

So God only chooses physical Jews to be saved?  Jesus only died for the physical members of the Twelve tribes of Israel???  Is that what you are saying?

 

 

I've answered your question, could you do me the same by answering the contradictions I have shown you?

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shiloh357

 

Interesting...

 

I have stated my position very clearly, I am testing your teaching

 

Your teaching seems to contradict the scriptures I have provided....at this stage you are more than welcome to treat me as someone who is "clumsy" and "incompetent", as a child of the world I don't profess to know everything and I am certainly humbled to learn.

 

If you could please explain the contradictions

John 17:9-10: "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them."

 

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved”  -- (Romans 10:1).
 
Acts 26:6-7: "And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come."
 
Trying to get this deleted or reported doesn't make these scriptures go away, what are we to do with these scriptures?
 
.........................................................................
"Before I go any further let me explain to what I am hearing in your posts.   This is what I am taking away from what you are posting:  "God never intended to save anyone but ethnic Jews/Israelites.  The non-Jewish, non-Israelite Gentiles were never intended by God to be the recipients of salvation.   God is only interested in those people are ethnic members of the physical twelve tribes of Israel and the concept of "world" only extends to the physical, flesh and blood Israelites.  God doesn't love anyone else and salvation is not for anyone else outside of national. physical Israel."
.........................................................................
 
No, unless God has chosen you individually or you are a chosen people (Israel) will have salvation
 
John 6:44: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:"
 
 
You may also wish to report the bible is also Israelite

 

So God only chooses physical Jews to be saved?  Jesus only died for the physical members of the Twelve tribes of Israel???  Is that what you are saying?

 

 

I've answered your question, could you do me the same by answering the contradictions I have shown you?

 

No, you have not answered the question.   It appears that you think only physical, ethnic Israelites qualify for salvation, as they are the ONLY people Jesus died for.  I am reporting your posts and false teachings.

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shiloh

 

your answer which you missed again

 

No, unless God has chosen you individually or you are a chosen people (Israel) will have salvation
 
Has God choosen you? yes/no?
 
Now please answer your contradiction....
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@Qnts2

 

The term Goy means nation or people group. Gentile means not-Israel or non-Jew. Israel is a nation/goy. Egyptians are a nation/goy. Any people group is a goy. In scripture, most of the time, the scripture refers to goy(im) which are non-Israel people groups. Goyim is plural for Goy. But in one or two places, Israel is also called a nation/goy.  Just because Israel is a nation/goy, does not mean that other goyim/nations are Israel

 

and yet the Hebrew word for gentile gowy also refers to the DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and IRSAEL

01471 gowy {go'-ee} rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee} apparently from the same root as 01465; TWOT -- 326e AV -- nation 374, heathen 143, Gentiles 30, people 11; 558 n m 1) nation, people 1a2) OF DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM 1a3) OF ISRAEL 1b) pf swarm of locusts, other animals (fig. n pr m 1c) Goyim? = "nations"

 

and yet the hebrew word for gentile gowy also refers to the DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and IRSAEL ( Sorry for repeat but it needs to drummed in)

 

In scripture, most of the time, the scripture refers to goy(im) which are non-Israel people groups. Goyim is plural for Goy. But in one or two places, Israel is also called a nation/goy.  Just because Israel is a nation/goy, does not mean that other goyim/nations are Israel

 
That's not what I'm saying what I'm saying, whenever the words "nation" or "nations" appear in the Bible, its translated as "Gentiles." It means the same thing and is the SAME word. The translators of our Bibles used the word that was best suited for a particular scripture. The problem is we are all  programmed to think that the word"gentile" can never refer to Israelites and vise verse but yet as we can see the definition of "Gentiles" in Strong's Concordance (#01471) INCLUDED the physical seed-line of Abraham and Israel with non-Hebrew people. 
 
To deny this is simply one who does not want to seek the truth or refuse to accept the truth.
 
With regards to your interpretation Concerning Peter's visit to the house of Cornelius
 
You need to clearly define which "gentiles" are being addressed here in the verses you provided as either Ethnos or Hellen?
 
Acts 10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. (Ethnos or Hellen?)
 
Acts 11:17 Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.” (Ethnos or Hellen?)
 
Acts 13:47  For so the Lord has commanded us,

‘I have placed You as a light for the Gentiles, (Ethnos or Hellen?)

That You may bring salvation to the end of the earth.’” 

 

 

You still don't get it at all.

 

When Goy is used, which is of course in the OT, it is not always translated as Gentiles. Goy means nations or people groups. When it is written in singular, it is mostly translated as nation or people. When it is written in plural form, goyim, the translation depends on context. If goyim refers to people who are not Israel, it is translated 'Gentiles'. If Israel and other nations are being spoken about, it is translated as nations or peoples. So the translation depends on context, to know which groups of people are being referenced. Basically, your statement is wrong.  

 

Ethnos or Hellen? Your are reading more into words then are there. It is very clear in Acts 13, what is being said.

 

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

But let's walk thru this a bit. Paul and Barnabas had spoken to people who were in  synagogue. Jews/Israel enter the synagogue, and Gentiles stand in the back or listen from outside. They are there addressing children of Israel/Jews, with Gentiles listening on. They state that the words of God concerning the Messiah should be spoken to the children of Israel/Jews first, and then they spoke to the Gentiles. This is very very simple. In scripture, there are Jews/Israel and there are people who are not Israel, the Gentiles. It was prophesied in the OT, that the light of the Messiah would go out to the Gentiles (non-Israel). This is the fulfillment. The OT also states that since Israel was disobedient, God would form a people (nation) out of people who are not a people (diverse people grouped together who are not rightfully a nation). These people will make Israel jealous. Since Israel is to be jealous by a people who are not Israel.

 

Weren't you just a few days ago, asking about mid-Acts dispensationalism? That hyper separates Israel/Jews from the church into a separate covenant. Now it appears you are promoting Two House theology which confuses Israel again by saying the church is actually physical Israel.         

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shiloh

 

your answer which you missed again

 

No, unless God has chosen you individually or you are a chosen people (Israel) will have salvation
 
Has God choosen you? yes/no?
 
Now please answer your contradiction....

 

God has chosen to save every man woman and child that will obey the Gospel.  God doesn't choose who will or will not get saved.  I obeyed the Gospel and am saved as a result.

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@Qnts2

 

The term Goy means nation or people group. Gentile means not-Israel or non-Jew. Israel is a nation/goy. Egyptians are a nation/goy. Any people group is a goy. In scripture, most of the time, the scripture refers to goy(im) which are non-Israel people groups. Goyim is plural for Goy. But in one or two places, Israel is also called a nation/goy.  Just because Israel is a nation/goy, does not mean that other goyim/nations are Israel

 

and yet the Hebrew word for gentile gowy also refers to the DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and IRSAEL

01471 gowy {go'-ee} rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee} apparently from the same root as 01465; TWOT -- 326e AV -- nation 374, heathen 143, Gentiles 30, people 11; 558 n m 1) nation, people 1a2) OF DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM 1a3) OF ISRAEL 1b) pf swarm of locusts, other animals (fig. n pr m 1c) Goyim? = "nations"

 

and yet the hebrew word for gentile gowy also refers to the DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and IRSAEL ( Sorry for repeat but it needs to drummed in)

 

In scripture, most of the time, the scripture refers to goy(im) which are non-Israel people groups. Goyim is plural for Goy. But in one or two places, Israel is also called a nation/goy.  Just because Israel is a nation/goy, does not mean that other goyim/nations are Israel

 
That's not what I'm saying what I'm saying, whenever the words "nation" or "nations" appear in the Bible, its translated as "Gentiles." It means the same thing and is the SAME word. The translators of our Bibles used the word that was best suited for a particular scripture. The problem is we are all  programmed to think that the word"gentile" can never refer to Israelites and vise verse but yet as we can see the definition of "Gentiles" in Strong's Concordance (#01471) INCLUDED the physical seed-line of Abraham and Israel with non-Hebrew people. 
 
To deny this is simply one who does not want to seek the truth or refuse to accept the truth.
 
With regards to your interpretation Concerning Peter's visit to the house of Cornelius
 
You need to clearly define which "gentiles" are being addressed here in the verses you provided as either Ethnos or Hellen?
 
Acts 10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. (Ethnos or Hellen?)
 
Acts 11:17 Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.” (Ethnos or Hellen?)
 
Acts 13:47  For so the Lord has commanded us,

‘I have placed You as a light for the Gentiles, (Ethnos or Hellen?)

That You may bring salvation to the end of the earth.’” 

 

 

You still don't get it at all.

 

When Goy is used, which is of course in the OT, it is not always translated as Gentiles. Goy means nations or people groups. When it is written in singular, it is mostly translated as nation or people. When it is written in plural form, goyim, the translation depends on context. If goyim refers to people who are not Israel, it is translated 'Gentiles'. If Israel and other nations are being spoken about, it is translated as nations or peoples. So the translation depends on context, to know which groups of people are being referenced. Basically, your statement is wrong.  

 

Ethnos or Hellen? Your are reading more into words then are there. It is very clear in Acts 13, what is being said.

 

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

But let's walk thru this a bit. Paul and Barnabas had spoken to people who were in  synagogue. Jews/Israel enter the synagogue, and Gentiles stand in the back or listen from outside. They are there addressing children of Israel/Jews, with Gentiles listening on. They state that the words of God concerning the Messiah should be spoken to the children of Israel/Jews first, and then they spoke to the Gentiles. This is very very simple. In scripture, there are Jews/Israel and there are people who are not Israel, the Gentiles. It was prophesied in the OT, that the light of the Messiah would go out to the Gentiles (non-Israel). This is the fulfillment. The OT also states that since Israel was disobedient, God would form a people (nation) out of people who are not a people (diverse people grouped together who are not rightfully a nation). These people will make Israel jealous. Since Israel is to be jealous by a people who are not Israel.

 

Weren't you just a few days ago, asking about mid-Acts dispensationalism? That hyper separates Israel/Jews from the church into a separate covenant. Now it appears you are promoting Two House theology which confuses Israel again by saying the church is actually physical Israel.         

 

 

I'm afraid your ignoring the fact the word "gentile" in hebrew was used for Israelites, I've showed you this. Why do you ignore this?

 

It is very important if we are to understand the difference between the two meanings in the Greek translations of "gentile" as I believe the bible does not waste words or meanings, so if "HELLEN" is used only 27 times in the bible do you not think there is a reason for this? or that Paul would use Ethnos and Hellen interchangeably just because? I'm afriad I can not accept that answer.

 

Hence why its important for us to first clarify this? What is a "gentile"

 

Let me show you 

 

Roman 2:14-15, Paul states that the Gentiles do BY NATURE the things contained in the law, and that they were showing the works of the law "written in their hearts" : "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, BY NATURE do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them." This passage also states that their CONSCIENCE was bearing witness of this fact.

 

WHO were these Gentiles? 

 

Jeremiah 31:31: "Behold, the days are coming, says YEHOVAH, when I will make a new covenant with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL and with the house of Judah --"

 

Hebrews 8:10: "For this is the COVENANT that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."

 

 

Hebrews 8:8: "Because finding fault with them, He says: 'Behold, the days are coming, says YEHOVAH, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL and with the house of Judah --" 

 

These "gentiles" are clearly the dispersed Israelites who come out of the house of Israel

 

further evidence please look at Heb 8:10 "MY PEOPLE" this statement ONLY applies to ISRAEL since these are the "PEOPLE" the covenant was made with and belonged to. DID you also notice that the new covenant was made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah?

 

Yet you say arnt I reading more into this? when your reading more into the gentiles somehow actually refer to "NON-ISRAELITE" races??? when you dont even consider which "gentile" is actuslly being referred to?

 

Please connect the dots

Romans 2:14-15 (GENTILE - Dispersed Israelites  - ETHNOS) + (HOUSE of ISRAEL) + (MY LAW in their Hearts) = Israelite

Heb 8:10 (House of Israel) + (my Law in their Hearts) + (My People) = Israelite

 

Its the same verse, Romans 2:14 -15 is a copy of Heb 8:10 its the same verse

 

It is pointless to debate scriptures if we can rightfully and correctly what is a "gentile"

 

mid-Acts dispensationalism?

Your confusing me with someone else, I dont believe in dispensationalism or replacement theology

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My LORD

 

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

 

Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

 

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:26-28

 

And My

 

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8

 

God

 

He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them. 1 Samuel 2:8

 

~

 

No, unless God has chosen you individually or you are a chosen people (Israel) will have salvation
 
Has God chosen you?
 
yes/no?

 

:thumbsup:

 

Yes/No?

 

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. John 3:35

 

Yes/No?

 

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

 

If

 

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isaiah 55:11

 

Yes

 

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17

 

Then Yes

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

 

Now also when I am old and grayheaded, O God, forsake me not; until I have shewed thy strength unto this generation, and thy power to every one that is to come. Psalms 71:18

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Shiloh 357

 

"God doesn't choose who will or will not get saved."

 

I now see your error and the crux of your theology

 

I'm afraid what your teaching is Humanism it now becomes "choosing God" ( which you promote) to Chosen people ( which the bible promotes)

 

The bible is not like any other religion where we may choose our god, like Islam, buddha etc

 

Christianity I'm afraid is based on God choosing us who will follow him who will be saved and who wont

 

 John 6:64-65: "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him. And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.

 

John 6:43-44: "Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

 

Lev 20: 8  I have chosen you as my people, and I expect you to obey my laws

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My LORD

 

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

 

Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

 

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:26-28

 

And My

 

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8

 

God

 

He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them. 1 Samuel 2:8

 

~

 

No, unless God has chosen you individually or you are a chosen people (Israel) will have salvation

 
Has God chosen you?
 
yes/no?

 

:thumbsup:

 

Yes/No?

 

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. John 3:35

 

Yes/No?

 

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

 

If

 

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isaiah 55:11

 

Yes

 

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17

 

Then Yes

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

 

Now also when I am old and grayheaded, O God, forsake me not; until I have shewed thy strength unto this generation, and thy power to every one that is to come. Psalms 71:18

 

Thank you, you seem to get what I'm saying

 

If you believe in Jesus and God reciprocates your belief in Jesus with his anointing then guess what he has chosen you for salvation

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Shiloh 357

 

"God doesn't choose who will or will not get saved."

 

I now see your error and the crux of your theology

 

I'm afraid what your teaching is Humanism it now becomes "choosing God" ( which you promote) to Chosen people ( which the bible promotes)

 

The bible is not like any other religion where we may choose our god, like Islam, buddha etc

 

Christianity I'm afraid is based on God choosing us who will follow him who will be saved and who wont

 

 John 6:64-65: "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him. And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.

 

John 6:43-44: "Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

 

Lev 20: 8  I have chosen you as my people, and I expect you to obey my laws

No.    None of those verses claim that God chooses who will or will not be saved.

 

God chose Israel for service, not for salvation.   Jesus is says that no one can come unless the father draws Him.  Jesus did not say that God only draws certain people to Him.

 

God knows who will or will not be saved, but it never says that God chooses who will or will not be saved.   Your teaching is that of another Gospel.  

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@Qnts2

 

The term Goy means nation or people group. Gentile means not-Israel or non-Jew. Israel is a nation/goy. Egyptians are a nation/goy. Any people group is a goy. In scripture, most of the time, the scripture refers to goy(im) which are non-Israel people groups. Goyim is plural for Goy. But in one or two places, Israel is also called a nation/goy.  Just because Israel is a nation/goy, does not mean that other goyim/nations are Israel

 

and yet the Hebrew word for gentile gowy also refers to the DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and IRSAEL

01471 gowy {go'-ee} rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee} apparently from the same root as 01465; TWOT -- 326e AV -- nation 374, heathen 143, Gentiles 30, people 11; 558 n m 1) nation, people 1a2) OF DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM 1a3) OF ISRAEL 1b) pf swarm of locusts, other animals (fig. n pr m 1c) Goyim? = "nations"

 

and yet the hebrew word for gentile gowy also refers to the DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and IRSAEL ( Sorry for repeat but it needs to drummed in)

 

In scripture, most of the time, the scripture refers to goy(im) which are non-Israel people groups. Goyim is plural for Goy. But in one or two places, Israel is also called a nation/goy.  Just because Israel is a nation/goy, does not mean that other goyim/nations are Israel

 
That's not what I'm saying what I'm saying, whenever the words "nation" or "nations" appear in the Bible, its translated as "Gentiles." It means the same thing and is the SAME word. The translators of our Bibles used the word that was best suited for a particular scripture. The problem is we are all  programmed to think that the word"gentile" can never refer to Israelites and vise verse but yet as we can see the definition of "Gentiles" in Strong's Concordance (#01471) INCLUDED the physical seed-line of Abraham and Israel with non-Hebrew people. 
 
To deny this is simply one who does not want to seek the truth or refuse to accept the truth.
 
With regards to your interpretation Concerning Peter's visit to the house of Cornelius
 
You need to clearly define which "gentiles" are being addressed here in the verses you provided as either Ethnos or Hellen?
 
Acts 10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. (Ethnos or Hellen?)
 
Acts 11:17 Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.” (Ethnos or Hellen?)
 
Acts 13:47  For so the Lord has commanded us,

‘I have placed You as a light for the Gentiles, (Ethnos or Hellen?)

That You may bring salvation to the end of the earth.’” 

 

 

You still don't get it at all.

 

When Goy is used, which is of course in the OT, it is not always translated as Gentiles. Goy means nations or people groups. When it is written in singular, it is mostly translated as nation or people. When it is written in plural form, goyim, the translation depends on context. If goyim refers to people who are not Israel, it is translated 'Gentiles'. If Israel and other nations are being spoken about, it is translated as nations or peoples. So the translation depends on context, to know which groups of people are being referenced. Basically, your statement is wrong.  

 

Ethnos or Hellen? Your are reading more into words then are there. It is very clear in Acts 13, what is being said.

 

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

But let's walk thru this a bit. Paul and Barnabas had spoken to people who were in  synagogue. Jews/Israel enter the synagogue, and Gentiles stand in the back or listen from outside. They are there addressing children of Israel/Jews, with Gentiles listening on. They state that the words of God concerning the Messiah should be spoken to the children of Israel/Jews first, and then they spoke to the Gentiles. This is very very simple. In scripture, there are Jews/Israel and there are people who are not Israel, the Gentiles. It was prophesied in the OT, that the light of the Messiah would go out to the Gentiles (non-Israel). This is the fulfillment. The OT also states that since Israel was disobedient, God would form a people (nation) out of people who are not a people (diverse people grouped together who are not rightfully a nation). These people will make Israel jealous. Since Israel is to be jealous by a people who are not Israel.

 

Weren't you just a few days ago, asking about mid-Acts dispensationalism? That hyper separates Israel/Jews from the church into a separate covenant. Now it appears you are promoting Two House theology which confuses Israel again by saying the church is actually physical Israel.         

 

 

I'm afraid your ignoring the fact the word "gentile" in hebrew was used for Israelites, I've showed you this. Why do you ignore this?

 

It is very important if we are to understand the difference between the two meanings in the Greek translations of "gentile" as I believe the bible does not waste words or meanings, so if "HELLEN" is used only 27 times in the bible do you not think there is a reason for this? or that Paul would use Ethnos and Hellen interchangeably just because? I'm afriad I can not accept that answer.

 

Hence why its important for us to first clarify this? What is a "gentile"

 

Let me show you 

 

Roman 2:14-15, Paul states that the Gentiles do BY NATURE the things contained in the law, and that they were showing the works of the law "written in their hearts" : "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, BY NATURE do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them." This passage also states that their CONSCIENCE was bearing witness of this fact.

 

WHO were these Gentiles? 

 

Jeremiah 31:31: "Behold, the days are coming, says YEHOVAH, when I will make a new covenant with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL and with the house of Judah --"

 

Hebrews 8:10: "For this is the COVENANT that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."

 

 

Hebrews 8:8: "Because finding fault with them, He says: 'Behold, the days are coming, says YEHOVAH, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL and with the house of Judah --" 

 

These "gentiles" are clearly the dispersed Israelites who come out of the house of Israel

 

further evidence please look at Heb 8:10 "MY PEOPLE" this statement ONLY applies to ISRAEL since these are the "PEOPLE" the covenant was made with and belonged to. DID you also notice that the new covenant was made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah?

 

Yet you say arnt I reading more into this? when your reading more into the gentiles somehow actually refer to "NON-ISRAELITE" races??? when you dont even consider which "gentile" is actuslly being referred to?

 

Please connect the dots

Romans 2:14-15 (GENTILE - Dispersed Israelites  - ETHNOS) + (HOUSE of ISRAEL) + (MY LAW in their Hearts) = Israelite

Heb 8:10 (House of Israel) + (my Law in their Hearts) + (My People) = Israelite

 

Its the same verse, Romans 2:14 -15 is a copy of Heb 8:10 its the same verse

 

It is pointless to debate scriptures if we can rightfully and correctly what is a "gentile"

 

mid-Acts dispensationalism?

Your confusing me with someone else, I dont believe in dispensationalism or replacement theology

 

 

The house of Israel and the house of Judah both together, make up the nation of Israel. Not Gentiles. The house of Israel are Israel, not members of other nations. Members of the former house of Israel were present in Judea at the time of Jesus and Paul. So, you are reading your theology into scripture, rather then taking the plain meaning, which is very very clear. God always planned on including the Gentiles in the New Covenant. 

 

The NT clearly says that being a physical child of Israel does not mean a person is saved. The NT says that having Abraham as a physical forefather does not guarantee salvation. It appears that you are claiming that those who are saved are physical children of Abraham and Jacob (Israel), which goes against clear scripture, both OT and NT.  

 

Two House is a form of replacement theology thru identity theft. You are stealing the identity of those who were members of the 10 of the tribes and replacing them with Gentiles believers. You are falsifying the identity of the Gentiles, who God prophesied would be drawn to the Messiah, and will make Israel jealous. Usually replacement theology tries to replace the children of Israel by claiming to a status of the new spiritual Israel. You are claiming that you and all Christians are physically Israel, when you are not physically Israel, but claiming real children of Israels identity.

 

Very simply,

 

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    

Partial blindness has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles come in. You have the Gentiles who come in being Israel. That is not scriptural.

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Shiloh 357

 

"God doesn't choose who will or will not get saved."

 

I now see your error and the crux of your theology

 

I'm afraid what your teaching is Humanism it now becomes "choosing God" ( which you promote) to Chosen people ( which the bible promotes)

 

The bible is not like any other religion where we may choose our god, like Islam, buddha etc

 

Christianity I'm afraid is based on God choosing us who will follow him who will be saved and who wont

 

 John 6:64-65: "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him. And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.

 

John 6:43-44: "Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

 

Lev 20: 8  I have chosen you as my people, and I expect you to obey my laws

No.    None of those verses claim that God chooses who will or will not be saved.

 

God chose Israel for service, not for salvation.   Jesus is says that no one can come unless the father draws Him.  Jesus did not say that God only draws certain people to Him.

 

God knows who will or will not be saved, but it never says that God chooses who will or will not be saved.   Your teaching is that of another Gospel.  

 

 

OH so Israel is barred from salvation now and yet you study an Israelite book? so we back to Israel is only a vehicle now? Tell me something how do you think God would feel about you speaking about his wife like that?

 

Jesus did not say that God only draws certain people to Him.

um... if he is drawing someone, then he is choosing someone in order to be drawn to him...an elected individual

 

but it never says that God chooses who will or will not be saved

Please provide me scripture for this...you also make out God is incapable to make decisions that he feels is justified and righteous? You also forget the Judgement at the end of age in Rev

 

Also please provide me your answer to your contradiction to the verses I provided to you earlier.

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Qnts2

 

Please reread what I just said....get this thought of this 2 house doctrine out your head that you think i'm trying to talk about....I'm not...now clear your mind... I am simply trying to identify "gentiles" which one is a "israelite Gentile" and which one is a "non-israelite Gentile"

Edited by inchrist
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OH so Israel is barred from salvation now and yet you study an Israelite book? so we back to Israel is only a vehicle now? Tell me something how do you think God would feel about you speaking about his wife like that?

 

I never said anything of the sort.  I said that God didn't choose Israel for salvation.  I didn't say that Israel can't be saved or that Israel is barred from salvation.  That is a lie you are telling on me.  God called Israel, chose them for service.  All men are able to be saved if they obey the Gospel.  

 

 

Jesus did not say that God only draws certain people to Him.

um... if he is drawing someone, then he is choosing someone in order to be drawn to him...an elected individual

 

But the error of YOUR teaching is that God has selected out some for salvation and not others.  The Bible NEVER says that.  You are teaching a lie.

 

 

 

but it never says that God chooses who will or will not be saved

Please provide me scripture for this...you also make out God is incapable to make decisions that he feels is justified and righteous? You also forget the Judgement at the end of age in Rev

 

The Bible says that God is not willing that any should perish but that all men should come to repentance.  John 3:16 read plainly, and not with shades of your false teaching, says that Jesus died for the whole world, that's everyone. 

 

Also please provide me your answer to your contradiction to the verses I provided to you earlier.

 

I haven't spoken any contradictions.  You are simply misrepresenting what I say.

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