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Why can't we understand what sin is?

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#1
firestormx

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Is it just me or is their a lot of confusion over what sin actually is? Sin is not breaking my or your moral code. Sin is not breaking the traditions of men. The bible is very specific about what sin is.

 

1 John 3:4

Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

Why is there so much confusion over what is sin? Is it because so many say we are not obligated to obey any of the law ?  Is it a lack of understanding about the Crucifixion and it's affect on us and the NT/ OT?

 

It just seems that every time I turn on the TV, read a post from a thread or a blog, somebody is coming up with a new meaning of what sin is. I heard or read some where recently that if the NT didn't say it was a sin, then it wasn't a sin. (There is a lot that is sin that the NT don't cover, like Rape for instance). Where did the thought come from that if something offends somebody then it's sin for everyone? Or That everyone can decide for themselves what sin is ( most would call this personal revelation).

 

Just curious if it is just me or if anyone else sees it. It's almost like we the church need to go back to basics and start with the simple things again, like What is sin? 

 

What is sin?

 

Sin is the transgression of the law

 

Why is the above so hard to understand?

Comments and elaborations welcome.

 

Firestormx

Joseph

 

#2
Butero

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Brother, I couldn't agree more. 



#3
Wildstar

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Amen!

 

Proverbs 30:6

Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

 

 

I see many people make things into a sin which are simply not a sin.  I consider doing such a thing a sin in itself.  

 

What is everyones reading of the law?  I consider us sinners who can never keep the law.  What must we realize about the law?  That we can never keep the law!  Who then can be saved?  Those who give up to establish their own righteousness.


Edited by Wildstar, 26 July 2014 - 06:31 AM.


#4
other one

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I would disagree that people say we are not obligated to any of the law......   everyone that I personally know who says no to the mosiac laws believes we are obligated to obey a new set of commands given by Jesus and not the laws of Moses.

 

When you just say that we are no longer obligated to obey any of the law and leave it at that it makes new covenant keepers sound awful.......   and we are not.



#5
Reformed Baptist

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Is it just me or is their a lot of confusion over what sin actually is? Sin is not breaking my or your moral code. Sin is not breaking the traditions of men. The bible is very specific about what sin is.

 

1 John 3:4

Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

Why is there so much confusion over what is sin? Is it because so many say we are not obligated to obey any of the law ?  Is it a lack of understanding about the Crucifixion and it's affect on us and the NT/ OT?

 

It just seems that every time I turn on the TV, read a post from a thread or a blog, somebody is coming up with a new meaning of what sin is. I heard or read some where recently that if the NT didn't say it was a sin, then it wasn't a sin. (There is a lot that is sin that the NT don't cover, like Rape for instance). Where did the thought come from that if something offends somebody then it's sin for everyone? Or That everyone can decide for themselves what sin is ( most would call this personal revelation).

 

Just curious if it is just me or if anyone else sees it. It's almost like we the church need to go back to basics and start with the simple things again, like What is sin? 

 

What is sin?

 

Sin is the transgression of the law

 

Why is the above so hard to understand?

Comments and elaborations welcome.

 

Firestormx

Joseph

 

 

 

I agree that the church needs to get back to basics.

 

Sin certainly is transgression of the law, and that is good 'bumper sticker theology' but it needs a little more unpacking then that :D 

 

For example;

 

1) What does 'transgress' mean?

2) To what 'law' is John referring? 

 

Think for a moment about the sermon on the mount where the Lord Jesus Christ takes a series of six examples from the law and shows how it is possible to transgress those laws in the heart, so for example a heart of anger towards another person is transgression of the law not to kill! 

 

Nor is this all that sin is, Paul has another definition! Romans 14:23 ....whatever is not from faith is sin. (NKJ) here Paul presents sin in a far more far reaching way then John does in his first epistle. He presents sin as being anything at all that is not of faith. So, for example, keeping the a law of God through our own efforts would still be sin in light of Rom 14:23!

 

There is also much more to be said as well, for example;

 

1) sin is what leads to death (Rom 6:23),

2) sin is anything that separates us from God (Is 59:2) 



#6
Fez

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Is it just me or is their a lot of confusion over what sin actually is? Sin is not breaking my or your moral code. Sin is not breaking the traditions of men. The bible is very specific about what sin is.

 

1 John 3:4

Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

Why is there so much confusion over what is sin? Is it because so many say we are not obligated to obey any of the law ?  Is it a lack of understanding about the Crucifixion and it's affect on us and the NT/ OT?

 

It just seems that every time I turn on the TV, read a post from a thread or a blog, somebody is coming up with a new meaning of what sin is. I heard or read some where recently that if the NT didn't say it was a sin, then it wasn't a sin. (There is a lot that is sin that the NT don't cover, like Rape for instance). Where did the thought come from that if something offends somebody then it's sin for everyone? Or That everyone can decide for themselves what sin is ( most would call this personal revelation).

 

Just curious if it is just me or if anyone else sees it. It's almost like we the church need to go back to basics and start with the simple things again, like What is sin? 

 

What is sin?

 

Sin is the transgression of the law

 

Why is the above so hard to understand?

Comments and elaborations welcome.

 

Firestormx

Joseph

 

 

 

I agree that the church needs to get back to basics.

 

Sin certainly is transgression of the law, and that is good 'bumper sticker theology' but it needs a little more unpacking then that :D

 

For example;

 

1) What does 'transgress' mean?

2) To what 'law' is John referring? 

 

Think for a moment about the sermon on the mount where the Lord Jesus Christ takes a series of six examples from the law and shows how it is possible to transgress those laws in the heart, so for example a heart of anger towards another person is transgression of the law not to kill! 

 

Nor is this all that sin is, Paul has another definition! Romans 14:23 ....whatever is not from faith is sin. (NKJ) here Paul presents sin in a far more far reaching way then John does in his first epistle. He presents sin as being anything at all that is not of faith. So, for example, keeping the a law of God through our own efforts would still be sin in light of Rom 14:23!

 

There is also much more to be said as well, for example;

 

1) sin is what leads to death (Rom 6:23),

2) sin is anything that separates us from God (Is 59:2) 

 

 

 

 

Is it just me or is their a lot of confusion over what sin actually is? Sin is not breaking my or your moral code. Sin is not breaking the traditions of men. The bible is very specific about what sin is.

 

1 John 3:4

Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

Why is there so much confusion over what is sin? Is it because so many say we are not obligated to obey any of the law ?  Is it a lack of understanding about the Crucifixion and it's affect on us and the NT/ OT?

 

It just seems that every time I turn on the TV, read a post from a thread or a blog, somebody is coming up with a new meaning of what sin is. I heard or read some where recently that if the NT didn't say it was a sin, then it wasn't a sin. (There is a lot that is sin that the NT don't cover, like Rape for instance). Where did the thought come from that if something offends somebody then it's sin for everyone? Or That everyone can decide for themselves what sin is ( most would call this personal revelation).

 

Just curious if it is just me or if anyone else sees it. It's almost like we the church need to go back to basics and start with the simple things again, like What is sin? 

 

What is sin?

 

Sin is the transgression of the law

 

Why is the above so hard to understand?

Comments and elaborations welcome.

 

Firestormx

Joseph

 

 

 

I agree that the church needs to get back to basics.

 

Sin certainly is transgression of the law, and that is good 'bumper sticker theology' but it needs a little more unpacking then that :D

 

For example;

 

1) What does 'transgress' mean?

2) To what 'law' is John referring? 

 

Think for a moment about the sermon on the mount where the Lord Jesus Christ takes a series of six examples from the law and shows how it is possible to transgress those laws in the heart, so for example a heart of anger towards another person is transgression of the law not to kill! 

 

Nor is this all that sin is, Paul has another definition! Romans 14:23 ....whatever is not from faith is sin. (NKJ) here Paul presents sin in a far more far reaching way then John does in his first epistle. He presents sin as being anything at all that is not of faith. So, for example, keeping the a law of God through our own efforts would still be sin in light of Rom 14:23!

 

There is also much more to be said as well, for example;

 

1) sin is what leads to death (Rom 6:23),

2) sin is anything that separates us from God (Is 59:2) 

 

Although the preceding verses use food as an example, I like the direction you take.

 

One of the most enigmatic and deep scriptures I know with regard to sin, come from the verse before  the one you quote..

 

Rom 14:22  The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. 
 
It's really deep.


#7
Butero

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Is it just me or is their a lot of confusion over what sin actually is? Sin is not breaking my or your moral code. Sin is not breaking the traditions of men. The bible is very specific about what sin is.

 

1 John 3:4

Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

Why is there so much confusion over what is sin? Is it because so many say we are not obligated to obey any of the law ?  Is it a lack of understanding about the Crucifixion and it's affect on us and the NT/ OT?

 

It just seems that every time I turn on the TV, read a post from a thread or a blog, somebody is coming up with a new meaning of what sin is. I heard or read some where recently that if the NT didn't say it was a sin, then it wasn't a sin. (There is a lot that is sin that the NT don't cover, like Rape for instance). Where did the thought come from that if something offends somebody then it's sin for everyone? Or That everyone can decide for themselves what sin is ( most would call this personal revelation).

 

Just curious if it is just me or if anyone else sees it. It's almost like we the church need to go back to basics and start with the simple things again, like What is sin? 

 

What is sin?

 

Sin is the transgression of the law

 

Why is the above so hard to understand?

Comments and elaborations welcome.

 

Firestormx

Joseph

 

 

 

I agree that the church needs to get back to basics.

 

Sin certainly is transgression of the law, and that is good 'bumper sticker theology' but it needs a little more unpacking then that :D

 

For example;

 

1) What does 'transgress' mean?

2) To what 'law' is John referring? 

 

Think for a moment about the sermon on the mount where the Lord Jesus Christ takes a series of six examples from the law and shows how it is possible to transgress those laws in the heart, so for example a heart of anger towards another person is transgression of the law not to kill! 

 

Nor is this all that sin is, Paul has another definition! Romans 14:23 ....whatever is not from faith is sin. (NKJ) here Paul presents sin in a far more far reaching way then John does in his first epistle. He presents sin as being anything at all that is not of faith. So, for example, keeping the a law of God through our own efforts would still be sin in light of Rom 14:23!

 

There is also much more to be said as well, for example;

 

1) sin is what leads to death (Rom 6:23),

2) sin is anything that separates us from God (Is 59:2) 

 

The scripture in Romans is not giving a definition of what sin is.  It is mentioning a specific sin, lack of faith.  The scripture in 1 John tells us what sin is.  I agree with Firestormx.  Something I have found funny is that I get called legalistic by people and accused of creating sin where there is none when I make an application of the law to modern day life, yet the same people will expand the definition of sin when it is convenient to them, and create new sins.  They will take scriptures like "all wrong doing is sin," and use that to make anything they don't like out to be wrong doing.  I never cross that line.  If I call something a sin, it has to be based on actual laws of God.  For example, based on a scripture in Leviticus, I will say tattoos are a sin.  Using the method of some, I could call tattoos a sin just because I don't like them and claim they come under the heading of wrong doing.  I could further state that there is no NT scripture that endorses putting ink under you skin, so it has to be sin.  Sin has a Biblical meaning.  It isn't just some word to mean whatever is convenient to us at a given time.  The Bible definition of sin is "the transgression of the law." 



#8
other one

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Other than the sabbath law, what law is it that people are saying it's ok to break???



#9
Floatingaxe

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I think the problem is that the Lord tells us that the law is now written on our hearts.  If it was still written on stone tablets, we wouldn't have such a problem, but God's laws are written on our hearts and man isn't really heeding what's there.



#10
firestormx

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Other than the sabbath law, what law is it that people are saying it's ok to break???

I'm being not descriptive on purpose. I'm not trying to call anyone out up here or start anything. I'm genuinely curious about this. However, I've heard whether it be in person, TV, or here people say we don't have to follow any of the OT law anymore because it has been fulfilled completely in Christ. 



#11
Butero

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Other than the sabbath law, what law is it that people are saying it's ok to break???

Printing marks on your body for one thing.



#12
Butero

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Other than the sabbath law, what law is it that people are saying it's ok to break???

I'm being not descriptive on purpose. I'm not trying to call anyone out up here or start anything. I'm genuinely curious about this. However, I've heard whether it be in person, TV, or here people say we don't have to follow any of the OT law anymore because it has been fulfilled completely in Christ. 

 

I hear that a lot too, but I reject it.  If you are walking in the Spirit, you won't break God's laws, so in that instance, there is truth to it, but when you don't walk in the Spirit, the law stands to show us right from wrong.



#13
LadyC

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i think in many cases the answer to the 'why' question is bigotry. yep, i know that's an offensive word and nobody wants to be guilty of it, but the bottom line is an inability to accept (in this case) what scripture says because it goes so deeply against everything they've ever believed or been taught about something. and even though it is wrong, i can understand that tendency sometimes in cases where scripture is totally silent on a subject. but in cases where scripture is NOT silent, and something is discussed in scripture (old, new, or both testaments) as being either being allowable or forbidden, there really should be no wiggle room. and if scripture dictates that something is allowable for some but not for others, well, there's no room to wiggle there either. it is what it is.

 

but there are those who just can't accept it because it offends them so deeply on a personal level.



#14
Genesis

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I would think most Christians know what Sin is defined as, if they read their Bibles.

 

SIN

(Sic)"...The origin of sin is a mystery, and must for ever remain such to us. It is plain that for some reason God has permitted sin to enter this world, and that is all we know. His permitting it, however, in no way makes God the author of sin."

 

 

 

Is it just me or is their a lot of confusion over what sin actually is? Sin is not breaking my or your moral code. Sin is not breaking the traditions of men. The bible is very specific about what sin is.

 

1 John 3:4

Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

Why is there so much confusion over what is sin? Is it because so many say we are not obligated to obey any of the law ?  Is it a lack of understanding about the Crucifixion and it's affect on us and the NT/ OT?

 

It just seems that every time I turn on the TV, read a post from a thread or a blog, somebody is coming up with a new meaning of what sin is. I heard or read some where recently that if the NT didn't say it was a sin, then it wasn't a sin. (There is a lot that is sin that the NT don't cover, like Rape for instance). Where did the thought come from that if something offends somebody then it's sin for everyone? Or That everyone can decide for themselves what sin is ( most would call this personal revelation).

 

Just curious if it is just me or if anyone else sees it. It's almost like we the church need to go back to basics and start with the simple things again, like What is sin? 

 

What is sin?

 

Sin is the transgression of the law

 

Why is the above so hard to understand?

Comments and elaborations welcome.

 

Firestormx

Joseph

 

 



#15
Wildstar

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i think in many cases the answer to the 'why' question is bigotry. yep, i know that's an offensive word and nobody wants to be guilty of it, but the bottom line is an inability to accept (in this case) what scripture says because it goes so deeply against everything they've ever believed or been taught about something. and even though it is wrong, i can understand that tendency sometimes in cases where scripture is totally silent on a subject. but in cases where scripture is NOT silent, and something is discussed in scripture (old, new, or both testaments) as being either being allowable or forbidden, there really should be no wiggle room. and if scripture dictates that something is allowable for some but not for others, well, there's no room to wiggle there either. it is what it is.

 

but there are those who just can't accept it because it offends them so deeply on a personal level.

Only people who believe in the bible 100% can do that.  



#16
Butero

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I am one of those people that does accept the Bible 100 percent as written.  I don't believe the authors were influenced by societal beliefs into saying things that were relevant then but not now.  It is the Word of God or it is not.  I don't believe portions of the text in my KJV Bible should have been left out.  I believe the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God, period.  As such, if I feel a certain way about something, but come to find out my belief is contrary to scripture, I trust the Bible and throw my beliefs out the window.  Let me give you an example.  If my view of homosexuals is that they are just living an alternate lifestyle, once I see in scripture they are in sin, I am faced with holding onto my natural beliefs, or pushing them aside to believe God's Word.  I will believe God's Word.  I don't buy into excuses like, "We need to use the brain God gave us," "Yea, but that was based on cultural beliefs back then," or "The Bible was written at a time when women were looked at as chattel."  I don't care what your argument is.  God is the same yesterday, today and forever.  The Bible is his Word or it is not.  My personal feelings, even if I think they are God's Spirit speaking to me, must come in line with scripture.  I always use that as the ultimate measure of truth. 

 

I have noticed a lot of people claim to believe the Bible is God's Word, but their speech and actions say they don't really believe it is true.  They believe it is God's Word when it is convenient for them, but when it is not, here comes the cultural bias argument, or similar nonsense.  There is no mystery about sin if we believe the Bible.  It is the transgression of the law. 



#17
gdemoss

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Why is it that people are confused about what sin is?

I am led to believe that because they reject God as God is in truth, God gives them over to a reprobate mind to do whatever is in their heart to do. God is not the author of confusion but of peace.

I am of the conviction that Sin is a person also known as Satan, the Serpant and the Devil. I believe sin is defined as following his lead in any way, shape or form.

Why do I have to sanctify the Lord in my heart? Because the heart is that which connects me to all that which is called god whether created or self existing. My thoughts and feelings are spiritual in nature and reveal who I align myself with whether it be good or evil.

Sin is the transgression of the law. The law was nailed to the cross. Jesus is the law for all of us. To transgress against Christ is to be in Sin. Jesus is alive and well ruling from on high until all things be brought under his feet as he treads upon serpants.

Pick up our cross which is to change sides over to the only true God. Deny our selves which is to stop relying upon the eyes of the understanding that were opened in the garden of Eden known as the opinion. And follow him which is to land upon the mount of olives having digested the sermon there and begin to use the bows we were given to bring in the Kingdom of God upon the earth or be rejected as the house of Joseph who refused to use their bows they were given.

There are two. One is the Savior. The other the Destroyer. They are known by the names given to their works. Even a child is known by his doings.

Peace Joseph

#18
Floatingaxe

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On the doctrine of sin...

 

The word that is used most frequently is hamartia, missing the mark. It is the most comprehensive term for explaining sin. Paul used the verb hamartano when he wrote, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). God has a high and holy standard of what is right, and so long as man follows the Divine standard he will see himself as he truly exists in God’s eyes. The flat statement of the Almighty is that all men have fallen far short of God’s required standard. It is the popular and common practice of men to create their own standards; however, God has established His standard of perfection for entry into Heaven, and all men have “missed the mark” as an archer’s arrow would fall to the ground because it fell short of its target.

 

Let no man ever think that he comes anywhere near the standard set by God. God has demanded absolute perfection, and no matter how one measures himself, he falls far short. Some men measure themselves on the basis of human intelligence, some by educational attainment, some by financial success, some by cultural environment, and others by religious performance. But God refuses to accept man on any of these grounds. He has established His perfect standard, and by that standard He measures every man. The Divine verdict in every instance has been the same, “You have come short, you have missed the mark.” And when the best of men have done their best, our Lord would challenge each with the words, “Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?” (Matthew 6:27). However much the difference that is lacking, no man can by himself raise himself to meet God’s moral standard, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). Yes, all without exception, for, says God, “We have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin” (Romans 3:9); that is, both Jew and Gentile have missed the mark.

 

Read further @ https://bible.org/article/doctrine-sin



#19
Genesis

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And yet that description below of a belief system is exactly what Bigotry is. 

 

 

i think in many cases the answer to the 'why' question is bigotry. yep, i know that's an offensive word and nobody wants to be guilty of it, but the bottom line is an inability to accept (in this case) what scripture says because it goes so deeply against everything they've ever believed or been taught about something. and even though it is wrong, i can understand that tendency sometimes in cases where scripture is totally silent on a subject. but in cases where scripture is NOT silent, and something is discussed in scripture (old, new, or both testaments) as being either being allowable or forbidden, there really should be no wiggle room. and if scripture dictates that something is allowable for some but not for others, well, there's no room to wiggle there either. it is what it is.

 

but there are those who just can't accept it because it offends them so deeply on a personal level.



#20
Butero

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Genesis, are you actually accusing Lady C of being a bigot?  That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.  The bigot would be the person that cannot accept a family who is doing nothing wrong in the sight of God according to his Word.  It would be the person that can't get past personal prejudice and accept the inter-racial couple.  It would be the person that can't accept cousins marrying after finding out the law doesn't forbid the practice, and in another case, it is the person that condemns the family where the husband has more than one wife, given the fact the law allows it.  It would be taking a position based on personal preference over truth.  The Bible is our standard, not our personal feelings.  At least, the Holy Bible is my standard, and when personal feelings come in conflict with the written Word, I will accept the written Word as truth. 






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