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Is Receiving The Mark Unforgivable?

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#1
Last Daze

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I'd like some thoughts on this question.
 
My initial thought is 'no'.  Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of flirting with disaster, just want to make sense of some things.
 
Where it speaks of judgment being carried out it always says it like this: “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand..." .  If the mark alone was enough to "send someone to hell" then why add the worship clause?  Using the "and" conjunction indicates that both must be in play.  I see "receiving the mark" as the first act of worship which is followed by continued worship (complying with the mandates of the image).  Can someone realize at some point, say when things really go south, that they've made a bad decision and repent.  I think so, but I'm not sure.  I think it might part of what the 144,000 do, bear witness and call to repentance.
 
Also, I think the decision to receive the mark or not will be made by everyone in just a couple months or so.  Why not just kill them all then?  I think the reason is that the judgments of the seventh seal gets progressively worse to try and convince people of their bad decision.  The great majority, though, will not see through the deception and will remain stiff-necked in their rebellion.  But might some repent as a result?  Maybe, but very, very few, kind of like God's searching for that last gold coin or two.
 
Another reason why I think you will be able to repent after receiving the mark is in Acts 2:
 
"And I will grant wonders in the sky above
And signs on the earth below,
Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke.
The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood,
Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come.
And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
 
I don't see any exception for those who have received the mark in there.  Again, the vast majority won't repent, but why make that statement if it weren't possible?
 
Thoughts?

Edited by OneLight, 07 August 2014 - 06:30 PM.
Made the thread "G" rated. Remember, we have children reading these threads.


#2
OakWood

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I always believed that the worship clause is to condemn those who didn't actually take the mark but worshipped the Beast anyway. Because of logistics there will be some who want to take the mark but can't. Maybe there is too long a waiting list or if the mark is done by machine then maybe there just isn't enough time to ensure that all of those those who want it get it.

The clause is there to stop people from saying "look see, I don't have actually have the mark, you can't condemn me to the fire". God will know what is in their hearts.

 

However, your post is making me think this over again.



#3
Themessenger2014

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anyone who take the mark will have no chance of repentance



#4
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"And I will grant wonders in the sky above
And signs on the earth below,
Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke.
The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood,
Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come.
And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

 

I don't see any exception for those who have received the mark in there.  Again, the vast majority won't repent, but why make that statement if it weren't possible?

 

Thoughts?

Hi Last Daze.

 

I think it means that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord - before the trumpets blow, and have the knowledge to refuse the mark of the beast will be spared from the wrath of God.  After that it will be too late. 

Many will realise they have made a mistake for taking the mark of the beast, but that mark on them shows who they chose to serve.  Once it's there, cannot change it. Can remove the mark if you wish, but your name is still listed as being the property of the Beast.  They already traded their inheritance for a bowl of soup.



#5
Sister

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I always believed that the worship clause is to condemn those who didn't actually take the mark but worshipped the Beast anyway. Because of logistics there will be some who want to take the mark but can't. Maybe there is too long a waiting list or if the mark is done by machine then maybe there just isn't enough time to ensure that all of those those who want it get it.

The clause is there to stop people from saying "look see, I don't have actually have the mark, you can't condemn me to the fire". God will know what is in their hearts.

 

However, your post is making me think this over again.

Hi Oakwood

 

Good point.  Yes, some might be in line to take it, but die before their turn.

Some might take the mark to do trade, but hate their new leader (eg Muslems)



#6
Cletus

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Revelation 14: 9-11 is clear what happens to those who take the mark or worship the beast or his image.

#7
other one

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Would you really bet your soul that one can take the mark and repent?



#8
Last Daze

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Would you really bet your soul that one can take the mark and repent?

Absolutely not, it just seemed strange the way it was worded, that "received the mark" and "worship the image" were always together...like it took both.  Just soliciting feedback.



#9
Last Daze

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Revelation 14: 9-11 is clear what happens to those who take the mark or worship the beast or his image.

The NASB uses "and" not "or".  If it were "or" there would be no question.  That's just why it seems odd to me.



#10
Last Daze

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"And I will grant wonders in the sky above
And signs on the earth below,
Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke.
The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood,
Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come.
And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

 

I don't see any exception for those who have received the mark in there.  Again, the vast majority won't repent, but why make that statement if it weren't possible?

 

Thoughts?

Hi Last Daze.

 

I think it means that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord - before the trumpets blow, and have the knowledge to refuse the mark of the beast will be spared from the wrath of God.  After that it will be too late. 

Many will realise they have made a mistake for taking the mark of the beast, but that mark on them shows who they chose to serve.  Once it's there, cannot change it. Can remove the mark if you wish, but your name is still listed as being the property of the Beast.  They already traded their inheritance for a bowl of soup.

 

Hi Sister,

 

I'm not sure how you see the seals unfolding.  I think the mark is given during the fifth seal, after the warfare of the first four seals.  This is when the worship or die ultimatum is given and believers are martyred. Then the sixth seal coincides with the above quoted passage, then the seventh seal with God's judgment (trumpets/vials).  Are you saying that up until the sixth seal that those who have received the mark can repent but once the trumpets blow, the option is off the table? 



#11
other one

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Revelation 14: 9-11 is clear what happens to those who take the mark or worship the beast or his image.

The NASB uses "and" not "or".  If it were "or" there would be no question.  That's just why it seems odd to me.

 

It is my understanding that the Greek also speaks in terms of and.......      To me personally it means that one can not receive the mark unless one worships the beast or his image.  Remember that those not written in the book of life will be enamored by the beast and think he's a good idea.   Also remember that Jesus told us that we can not be snatched out of the hands of the Father, so there is literally no way we can be tricked or accidentally worship the beast, his image or accept his mark.



#12
Cletus

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Revelation 14: 9-11 is clear what happens to those who take the mark or worship the beast or his image.

The NASB uses "and" not "or".  If it were "or" there would be no question.  That's just why it seems odd to me.

I am gonna start calling you eagle eye. It says the same thing in kjv too. When I wrote that I was not trying to quote scripture. The idea was either action is mentioned. Sorry for any confusion.

#13
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Hi Sister,

 

I'm not sure how you see the seals unfolding.  I think the mark is given during the fifth seal, after the warfare of the first four seals.  This is when the worship or die ultimatum is given and believers are martyred.  

 

 

 

 

Hi Last Daze

 

I think you are absolutely correct.  The mark is given in the 5th seal. 


 

Then the sixth seal coincides with the above quoted passage,

 

Sorry, what passage?

 

then the seventh seal with God's judgment (trumpets/vials).

 

Christ comes on the 7th seal.

 Revelation 10:7   But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

So it would only make sense that the first 6 trumpets take place in the 6th seal, and the last trumpet is the coming, - the 7th seal.

 

Are you saying that up until the sixth seal that those who have received the mark can repent but once the trumpets blow, the option is off the table?

 

No, I am not saying that. Once one has taken the mark, it is too late to repent.  They have made their choice.

If the mark is issued in the 5th seal, then this is the persecution period.  Once this period is finished, the 6th seal starts with the first 6 trumpets/vials.

 

Revelation 16:2   And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image

 

Keep in mind the vials and trumpets correlate.  Once everyone is "marked" the first trumpet sounds.

 

Rev 6:12 onwards (the 6th seal) is confusing, because this vision is condensed right up to the men hiding in the rocks for fear of the lamb (the coming) with no details inbetween.  This ends right before the coming. Christ has made his presence known, but has not struck yet.

The trumpets have to be sounded before the coming, would you agree?  So they have happened in this 6th seal stage, but why did God not mention it here?.....

 

becaise Rev 8  opens up the 7th seal, which is the explanation and the details of the 7 angels.  It's a vision don't forget, explaining.

 

 

Revelation 16:17   And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Revelation 16:18   And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Revelation 16:19   And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

 

I know it is confusing.  We have to really concentrate on the order of events.  The mark, the persecutions, the trumpets, the coming on the last trump.



#14
Openly Curious

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Any person who takes the mark of the beast in there right hand or forehead will not be forgiven and be eternally damned and suffer eternal punishment in the lake of fire.

It is equally true that those who "WORSHIP" the beast and his "IMAGE" will also not be forgiven and be eternally damned and suffer eternal punishment in the lake of fire.

 

Both of them will not be forgiven.

 

A person who willingly takes the mark of the beast will be the possession of the Beast at that point.  Satan will mark those who belong to him as such.  Just as the saints have been marked or sealed which is the earnest of our inheritance.  Christ's work on the cross paid the ransom price and bought us back from the curse of the law and we are His purchased possession we belong to Him.  Satan will mark those who belong to him as well.

 

If a person who worships the beast and his image will not be forgiven because they are worshiping an idol and not the one and true living God.  But they are in idolatry willingly serving a false god who cannot save them.  And Satan is going to set himself up as God to be worshipped as God during that time period.

 

Just like Nebuchanezzar in the book of Daniel who had a dream of an image of a man and then after his dream was interpreted by Daniel the prophet.  Nebuchadnezzar went and made an image of the man in his dream and then forced every one at the sound of the music to fall down and worship the image and if they didn't then they would be thrown into the fiery furnace.  That's forced worship and Satan in the end-times will force himself and his will upon the people in the earth.  But there will be those Shadrach's, Meschech's and Abindigo's that will not bow down to the image of the beast nor take his mark and it is those who will be saved from the fiery furnace only.



#15
Salty

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I'd like some thoughts on this question.

 

My initial thought is 'no'.  Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of flirting with disaster, just want to make sense of some things.

 

Where it speaks of judgment being carried out it always says it like this: “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand..." .  If the mark alone was enough to "damn someone to hell" then why add the worship clause?  Using the "and" conjunction indicates that both must be in play.  I see "receiving the mark" as the first act of worship which is followed by continued worship (complying with the mandates of the image).  Can someone realize at some point, say when things really go south, that they've made a bad decision and repent.  I think so, but I'm not sure.  I think it might part of what the 144,000 do, bear witness and call to repentance.

 

Also, I think the decision to receive the mark or not will be made by everyone in just a couple months or so.  Why not just kill them all then?  I think the reason is that the judgments of the seventh seal gets progressively worse to try and convince people of their bad decision.  The great majority, though, will not see through the deception and will remain stiff-necked in their rebellion.  But might some repent as a result?  Maybe, but very, very few, kind of like God's searching for that last gold coin or two.

 

Another reason why I think you will be able to repent after receiving the mark is in Acts 2:

 

"And I will grant wonders in the sky above
And signs on the earth below,
Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke.
The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood,
Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come.
And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

 

I don't see any exception for those who have received the mark in there.  Again, the vast majority won't repent, but why make that statement if it weren't possible?

 

Thoughts?

 

'Accountability' is the key.

 

Our Lord Jesus said all manner of sin can be forgiven man, except the unpardonable sin against The Holy Spirit, which I believe during the tribulation when the 'mark' is instituted will only apply to one of His elect falling away.

 

If one sins in ignorance that is a different situation of accountability to God. In the case of the 'mark' when the Pseudo-Christ comes, brethren that do that in ignorance is different than brethren not in ignorance that know better, but accept it anyway (like a chosen elect).

 

Per the end of Rev.13, a requirement of taking the 'mark' associates agreement to bow in false worship. It's shown as a choice. Since the devil is after our souls especially, it wouldn't mean the same thing if it was forced upon one who refused the false worship, which is why it says those who refuse are to be killed.

 

For those in Christ who are given from God to know the coming Pseudo-Christ will play our Lord Jesus, knowing the difference between the false coming and our Lord Jesus true coming later, if they accept the mark they will have committed the unpardonable sin against The Holy Spirit. They will be held fully accountable, because they were given to 'know', and will not be able to claim ignorance when Jesus comes.

 

But a brother who doesn't know that difference, and thus becomes deceived, will think that coming Pseudo-Christ will be whom? They will believe that truly is... our Lord Jesus, so they will not even consider that they are bowing in false worship to another. This is why it is so important to understand per God's Word what kind of Antichrist is coming to sit the temple of God in Jerusalem for the last days, exalting himself as God. Per God's Word it is going to be a fake Christ, and a very believable fake one at that, not some pope or religious fanatic like those of past history that only claimed to be Jesus Christ.

 

This is why those who look for some leader rising from among Islam, or New York, or any other faction except one that would fit our Lord Jesus, are way off the track of God's Word on this matter.



#16
Last Daze

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I'd like some thoughts on this question.

 

My initial thought is 'no'.  Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of flirting with disaster, just want to make sense of some things.

 

Where it speaks of judgment being carried out it always says it like this: “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand..." .  If the mark alone was enough to "damn someone to hell" then why add the worship clause?  Using the "and" conjunction indicates that both must be in play.  I see "receiving the mark" as the first act of worship which is followed by continued worship (complying with the mandates of the image).  Can someone realize at some point, say when things really go south, that they've made a bad decision and repent.  I think so, but I'm not sure.  I think it might part of what the 144,000 do, bear witness and call to repentance.

 

Also, I think the decision to receive the mark or not will be made by everyone in just a couple months or so.  Why not just kill them all then?  I think the reason is that the judgments of the seventh seal gets progressively worse to try and convince people of their bad decision.  The great majority, though, will not see through the deception and will remain stiff-necked in their rebellion.  But might some repent as a result?  Maybe, but very, very few, kind of like God's searching for that last gold coin or two.

 

Another reason why I think you will be able to repent after receiving the mark is in Acts 2:

 

"And I will grant wonders in the sky above
And signs on the earth below,
Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke.
The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood,
Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come.
And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

 

I don't see any exception for those who have received the mark in there.  Again, the vast majority won't repent, but why make that statement if it weren't possible?

 

Thoughts?

 

'Accountability' is the key.

 

Our Lord Jesus said all manner of sin can be forgiven man, except the unpardonable sin against The Holy Spirit, which I believe during the tribulation when the 'mark' is instituted will only apply to one of His elect falling away.

 

If one sins in ignorance that is a different situation of accountability to God. In the case of the 'mark' when the Pseudo-Christ comes, brethren that do that in ignorance is different than brethren not in ignorance that know better, but accept it anyway (like a chosen elect).

 

Per the end of Rev.13, a requirement of taking the 'mark' associates agreement to bow in false worship. It's shown as a choice. Since the devil is after our souls especially, it wouldn't mean the same thing if it was forced upon one who refused the false worship, which is why it says those who refuse are to be killed.

 

For those in Christ who are given from God to know the coming Pseudo-Christ will play our Lord Jesus, knowing the difference between the false coming and our Lord Jesus true coming later, if they accept the mark they will have committed the unpardonable sin against The Holy Spirit. They will be held fully accountable, because they were given to 'know', and will not be able to claim ignorance when Jesus comes.

 

But a brother who doesn't know that difference, and thus becomes deceived, will think that coming Pseudo-Christ will be whom? They will believe that truly is... our Lord Jesus, so they will not even consider that they are bowing in false worship to another. This is why it is so important to understand per God's Word what kind of Antichrist is coming to sit the temple of God in Jerusalem for the last days, exalting himself as God. Per God's Word it is going to be a fake Christ, and a very believable fake one at that, not some pope or religious fanatic like those of past history that only claimed to be Jesus Christ.

 

This is why those who look for some leader rising from among Islam, or New York, or any other faction except one that would fit our Lord Jesus, are way off the track of God's Word on this matter.

 

Interesting perspective.  Would it be fair to summarize your reply as: those who receive the mark with the full knowledge of what it is will not be able to repent but those who receive it in ignorance will be able to?



#17
Last Daze

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I always believed that the worship clause is to condemn those who didn't actually take the mark but worshipped the Beast anyway. Because of logistics there will be some who want to take the mark but can't. Maybe there is too long a waiting list or if the mark is done by machine then maybe there just isn't enough time to ensure that all of those those who want it get it.

The clause is there to stop people from saying "look see, I don't have actually have the mark, you can't condemn me to the fire". God will know what is in their hearts.

 

However, your post is making me think this over again.

I agree that the logistics of such an undertaking is enormous.  I think that the 10 leaders were planning on ruling much longer than one hour and that they will have made all the preparations, logistically speaking, for the implementation of the mark.  The false prophet (antichrist) hijacks their system and after subduing their rebellion, begins implementing the mark...as I see it.



#18
Salty

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'Accountability' is the key.

 

Our Lord Jesus said all manner of sin can be forgiven man, except the unpardonable sin against The Holy Spirit, which I believe during the tribulation when the 'mark' is instituted will only apply to one of His elect falling away.

 

If one sins in ignorance that is a different situation of accountability to God. In the case of the 'mark' when the Pseudo-Christ comes, brethren that do that in ignorance is different than brethren not in ignorance that know better, but accept it anyway (like a chosen elect).

 

Per the end of Rev.13, a requirement of taking the 'mark' associates agreement to bow in false worship. It's shown as a choice. Since the devil is after our souls especially, it wouldn't mean the same thing if it was forced upon one who refused the false worship, which is why it says those who refuse are to be killed.

 

For those in Christ who are given from God to know the coming Pseudo-Christ will play our Lord Jesus, knowing the difference between the false coming and our Lord Jesus true coming later, if they accept the mark they will have committed the unpardonable sin against The Holy Spirit. They will be held fully accountable, because they were given to 'know', and will not be able to claim ignorance when Jesus comes.

 

But a brother who doesn't know that difference, and thus becomes deceived, will think that coming Pseudo-Christ will be whom? They will believe that truly is... our Lord Jesus, so they will not even consider that they are bowing in false worship to another. This is why it is so important to understand per God's Word what kind of Antichrist is coming to sit the temple of God in Jerusalem for the last days, exalting himself as God. Per God's Word it is going to be a fake Christ, and a very believable fake one at that, not some pope or religious fanatic like those of past history that only claimed to be Jesus Christ.

 

This is why those who look for some leader rising from among Islam, or New York, or any other faction except one that would fit our Lord Jesus, are way off the track of God's Word on this matter.

 

Interesting perspective.  Would it be fair to summarize your reply as: those who receive the mark with the full knowledge of what it is will not be able to repent but those who receive it in ignorance will be able to?

 

 

Pretty much. Those who 'know' are without excuse, just like Hebrews 6 shows those who once tasted of the heavenly gifts of the world to come and then choose to fall away put Christ to an open shame if they try and renew. One is always accountable when doing something in full knowledge that it's wrong.

 

Yet we have these Scriptures to consider on this point also... which many regard as absolute:

 

Rev.14

And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

What is that "wine of the wrath of God", and what timing is it? It happens on the last day of this present world, on the day of The Lord when Jesus returns. Thus deceived brethren will be subject to that wrath, like Apostle Paul showed with those who will be saying "Peace and safety" per 1 Thess.5, those "drunken in the night." But it does not mean destruction of one's soul with the Great White Throne Judgment, for that time is not yet then.

 

Then v.11 presents a problem depending on how one looks at it. It's really in two parts as to timing. The time when those thrown into the "lake of fire" with the "smoke" of their torment ascending forever is about the Rev.20:14-15 event that will only occur after... Christ's thousand years reign. But the part in purple, can apply to the deceived during Christ's thousand years reign, their souls not destroyed yet, and for the deceived of the Church, those in a probation for doing it out of ignorance being in shame during the thousand years.



#19
OneLight

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I have a hard time believing that by the time the mark is unveiled that the world will not know what it means.  The world has heard the scriptures preached for thousands of years, so ignorance can not be an excuse.  They are willingly accepting something while rejecting another.  I don't believe there will be any turning away after they accept the mark.  They will willfully follow the beast, as scripture states.  I have not seen once in scripture that any repent.  In fact, I read just the opposite, their hearts become hardened.



#20
Salty

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I have a hard time believing that by the time the mark is unveiled that the world will not know what it means.  The world has heard the scriptures preached for thousands of years, so ignorance can not be an excuse.  They are willingly accepting something while rejecting another.  I don't believe there will be any turning away after they accept the mark.  They will willfully follow the beast, as scripture states.  I have not seen once in scripture that any repent.  In fact, I read just the opposite, their hearts become hardened.

 

What about the 'unbelieving' Jews which God has blinded until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, pointing to the time up to Christ's return? (Rom.11). Since God Himself placed that spiritual blindness upon them so The Gospel could go to the Gentiles like Apostle Paul said, then how will God hold those He blinded accountable for taking the mark in ignorance?

 

Per Luke 23 and the 6th seal of Rev.6, it's the "Daughters of Jerusalem" that will be saying for the mountains to "Fall on us", and for the hills to "Cover us" when Jesus appears at His second coming. That means deceived unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem that will blindly fall into deception to the coming pseudo-Christ at Jerusalem for the near future, and when Jesus suddenly appears to them, they will wish the mountains and hills to cover them because of shame.

 

Will they be forever lost then, even because they did it in ignorance by God's blindness He put upon them?






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