Jump to content

christian forums

Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Forums

Welcome to Worthy Christian Forums
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Christian Worship

* * * * * 1 votes

  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1
Word-Sword

Word-Sword
  • Members
  • 21 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA, MO.
  • Interests:Sharing Scripture, boating, fishing, playing chess.

I believe the contrast and plan of God between the Jewish believer in the prior law-dispensation and the Christian believer in the present Gospel-dispensation is often mistakenly misunderstood.  The difference between the two dispensations does not present an issue of conflicting interest, but is an issue concerning that of God’s chosen revelatory manner of reaching to mankind. 

 

The prior dispensation was limited to one nation of the world in order that His desires may be more clearly seen by being focused on a single people whose place in God was a representative analogy to the eventual redemption of those among the entire world. 

-NC

 

Christian Worship

 

The liturgies of the church today invariably fall back upon the feelings of man, with a slight tincture of Gospel and a large infusion of law.  There may be sublime language and glowing ideas, chiefly borrowed from the Old Testament, but in substance they are utterly beneath intelligent Christian use—far more Jewish than Christian.

 

True worship is always according to revelation of the Word.  What then could it be where salvation is not?  The Jewish worship was set out in figures and shadows; it was a hope, not an actual relationship and possession (i.e. people of God through the Law of Moses instead of children of God through the Gospel of Christ—NC).  The Jews were looking—and they were right in looking—for the Messiah, who would not only tell, but accomplish all things; He whom they were right in looking for was to be a Savior.  The salvation that the Jews had before their eyes was still a thing in prospect, and not yet brought home to the heart as a present reality.  While they waited for the Messiah, the worship was suited to their state.  It was surrounded with priests and forms, which showed that the way was not made manifest into the Holiest (Heb 9:8).

 

But and end came to this state of promise and provisional imagery.  The veil was rent from top to bottom, when the Jews led the Gentiles to crucify their Messiah, God’s Son.  Wonderful to say, in that crime of man, in the Cross, God wrought redemption; and man first stood in the presence of the Father, a Savior God.  The whole Jewish system was at an end; it was dead if not yet buried, for God allowed a decent time for the funeral.  But Judaism cast away life in rejecting the Messiah—Calvary proved that.

 

When we come to search and understand the distinctive truths of the New Testament, we see the immense change in worship now connected with the accomplishment of the revelation of the Lord Jesus, His work, and the gift of the Holy Spirit.  Hence from His rejection the Lord (as the Spirit afterward) was gradually unfolding, as the disciples could bear, the new order of things; for those accustomed to the old wine did not relish the new all at once.  They frequented the temple at the hour of prayer, though they went to their houses to break bread.  For a little while they were half Jews and half Christian—as are so many today.

 

But God was about to lead them out finally, and the Epistles to the Hebrews cut the last cord which bound the Christian Jew to the old economy (dispensation).  From that moment it was unfaithfulness to Christ, as He was now made known, to linger among the old things.  In the same Epistle the Spirit instructs us in Christian worship as contrasted with the Levitical system.  What do we find?  The legal sacrifices superseded by that of the Lord Jesus, and the Jewish sanctuary, figure of the true into which the Lord Jesus is gone and we draw nigh in faith.

 

The old sacrifices were always necessarily renewed (Heb 10:1); the Christian knows but one sacrifice, and the reason why is, that it was brought to perfection.  Otherwise you only repeat and thereby give witness that you have nothing complete and perfect.  But the essence of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God is that it is once offered (Heb 10:10), and by that one offering He has not merely sanctified (1 Cor 6:11; Heb 2:11), but perfected forever them that are sanctified (Heb 10:14).

 

Nothing can be more distinctive than the doctrine of the Apostle Paul as to the offering of Christ for the Christian.  He is looking not at passing circumstances, but at the essential difference between the Jewish worshiper and the Christian.  The Jewish worshiper needed the constant succession of offerings to meet his wants; the Christian’s wants are already met on the Cross and in the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

 

- Wm Kelly

 

http://www.abideabov...m/hungry-heart/

 


  • 1

#2
Sevenseas

Sevenseas

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,098 posts
  • Gender:Female

 

 

True worship is always according to revelation of the Word.

 

there is an awful lot of hooplah written about worship

 

 

"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."  John 4:24

 

So like, using any of the Psalms would be wrong?  

 

 

The liturgies of the church today invariably fall back upon the feelings of man, with a slight tincture of Gospel and a large infusion of law.  There may be sublime language and glowing ideas, chiefly borrowed from the Old Testament, but in substance they are utterly beneath intelligent Christian use—far more Jewish than Christian.

 

 

I really would disagree with the above.  Really.  

 

 

 

 For a little while they were half Jews and half Christian—as are so many today.

 

 

 

What on earth!!?!!  There is no such thing as a half Christian

 

What I understand from this article, is that it was written with human understanding and made a stab at sounding spiritual by speaking of

better revelation etc.  However, the entire Bible is true and there is no part better then another as God ordered it the way it appears it seems.

 

 

I see this article as yet one more stab on the part of someone trying to change what does not need changing when God has already made it so simple according to Jesus

 

By the way, there are Jewish believers in Christ...the dictonomy presented is askew IMO


  • 1

#3
Sevenseas

Sevenseas

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,098 posts
  • Gender:Female

Would you have a link for homepage of the site you link to?  The site is a bear to load and there is no info on it

 

I will ask again for more info please....the link you provided does not have any information available as to the actual source of the content of the post

and there is no link for homepage....in other words, your info seems to exisit in a vacumn

 

isn't it possible to provide the source for this article...

 

one more thing, the wait time for the page to load is way over reasonable expectations...and I have high speed internet...


  • 1

#4
Word-Sword

Word-Sword
  • Members
  • 21 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA, MO.
  • Interests:Sharing Scripture, boating, fishing, playing chess.

So like, using any of the Psalms would be wrong?

 

Hi SS - Being inquisitive concerning the author's material is understandable, and due to its antiquity (circa 1800'-1900's) it is initially difficult to understand, but this article merely demonstrates the difference between dispensations concerning God's desired relationship with His people Israel under law, and His children (believing Jews and Gentiles) under the Gospel of Christ.

 

As you've indicated, and on which I agree, this is not to suspect that one dispensation is more right than the other, but to make a distinction in God's manner of relationship between dispensations (pre-Cross/post-Cross), i.e God through Christ has provided a closer fellowship by the Holy Spirit, which type of relationship was not provided before.

 

God had "not made known unto the sons of men . . . that the Gentiles should be fellow-heirs (with Christian Jews), and of the same Body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the Gospel" (Eph 3:5, 6).  "The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the Holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle (Covenant) was yet standing" (Heb 9:8).

 

 

What on earth!!?!!  There is no such thing as a half Christian

 

 

Your comment here could not be more true.  The analogy used is in reference to the present day's attempt to produce a religion identified by the term "Judeo-Christian," which would detract from both systems due to the inability to apply a whole heart to either.  

 

I say "would detract" if it were possible to mix the two, but when considering the removal of the prior Covenant (Heb 10:9) of which present-day Israel no longer possess, the admixture of such is not only an impossibility, but is also an indication concerning a lack of differentiating between dispensations (not a personal accusation).

 

The link provided does not access the material in the posted article but is a daily devotional anthology by Miles J Stanford, who published books containing material from this article's author and from numerous other authors from the same time period, which focuses on the spiritual growth truths in Scripture.

 

I've found it a fortunate blessing these last 15 years to be studying materials such as these.  There has also been much blessing in the sharing of the material, which is allowed because antiquated literature cannot be copyrighted, making it public domain.

 

God's blessings to your Family, and God be blessed!

 

 

 

 


  • 1

#5
Sevenseas

Sevenseas

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,098 posts
  • Gender:Female

Um...I do not think I am having a comprehension problem and I do not ask simply because I am curious

 

I ask because I do not really agree with the material you present and I want to know its source.  Now, I understand the author is dead

 

Belief in Christ and all that He has done for us is the law fullfilled...we are saved by the grace of God as fulfilled in the sacrifice of His only begotten Son

and do not depend on trying to keep the law...further, the law was given to point out sin

 

The article speaks of inadequate worship or worse, worshipping incorrectly

 

How do you suppose that the author states Christian worship is based mainly on Jewish custom?  (apart from the fact that it is many years into the futrue from when this

was written)

 

He states:

 

 

 

The liturgies of the church today invariably fall back upon the feelings of man, with a slight tincture of Gospel and a large infusion of law.  There may be sublime language and glowing ideas, chiefly borrowed from the Old Testament, but in substance they are utterly beneath intelligent Christian use—far more Jewish than Christian.

 

 

How do you understand that?  I am responding to the quote...I don't see any questions here, so that is about all I can do


  • 1

#6
Word-Sword

Word-Sword
  • Members
  • 21 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA, MO.
  • Interests:Sharing Scripture, boating, fishing, playing chess.
How do you understand that?  I am responding to the quote...I don't see any questions here, so that is about all I can do

What I've replied is also the most I can do at this time because I still need more time and study concerning the article's content.

 

Regardless of the difference in our beliefs here, we both agree concerning an essential doctrine you've mentioned, which is "we are saved by the grace of God as fulfilled in the sacrifice of His only begotten Son."


Edited by Word-Sword, 29 August 2014 - 04:34 PM.

  • 1

#7
Sevenseas

Sevenseas

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,098 posts
  • Gender:Female

OK...so then I guess I will conclude that you put up the article simply for discussion

 

I assumed you were agreeing with the article as I didn't see where you were wanting comments or thoughts...unless the opening sentences were yours?

 

Anyway, perhaps you will get more feedback if you ask questions?  


  • 1

#8
Word-Sword

Word-Sword
  • Members
  • 21 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA, MO.
  • Interests:Sharing Scripture, boating, fishing, playing chess.

OK...so then I guess I will conclude that you put up the article simply for discussion

 

I assumed you were agreeing with the article as I didn't see where you were wanting comments or thoughts...unless the opening sentences were yours?

 

Anyway, perhaps you will get more feedback if you ask questions?  

Yes, I agree with the article but due to its subject content not being common enough it is not easily explained.

 

Thank you for your replies!


  • 1

#9
Sevenseas

Sevenseas

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,098 posts
  • Gender:Female

OK....took awhile bit I guess things are clearer now.  thanks


  • 1




0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Message Boards - 1999-2014 part of the Worthy Network