Jump to content

christian forums

Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Forums

Welcome to Worthy Christian Forums
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Isaiah 47: is America this present age's Babylon?

* * * * * 1 votes

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
127 replies to this topic

#1
*Zion*

*Zion*

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,865 posts

Firstly, please don't misunderstand me; I don't hate Americans nor do I wish to cause offense, I just want to know.  Also, I specify this present age because of the spiritual reality that these are territorial spirits: prince of Persia, daughter of Babylon, etc.

 

What think ye dear brethren?



#2
Cletus

Cletus

    Veteran Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 727 posts
Wont say america is babylon. Cant say its not either. Several times The Lord has taken me to scripture passages talking about babylon, and other evil empires, and the words jumped out at me. I think if the shoe fits, wear it. What I believe is God is calling america back to Him. I have been seeing evidence of this every since 9/11. Over a decade ago God took me to the book of Hosea and He was really bringing to life the scripture in me but I didnt understand why. Things had not yet happened for me to understand. I think a big clue can be found in 1:2 of hosea. Also this is why I chose hosea 6:6 for my signature. This is possibly my favorite scripture in the whole bible because God is literaly saying I want you to know me, I want us to be close and I dont want any superficial fakeness. And people wont turn to him even when you tell them the truth. Honestly, I see america in a lot of the scriptures. If He does judge this nation I will not be surprised.

#3
*Zion*

*Zion*

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,865 posts

I understand, but I must make it clear that I'm not talking about physical people, but the territorial spirit.  There are Christians everywhere, but we are no longer of this world, but are heavenly ambassadors :)



#4
ARGOSY

ARGOSY

    Veteran Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 884 posts

I don't see the USA in Isaiah 47.  The only place I do see the USA is the great eagle of Rev 12.  As usual the bible uses a country's own symbolism, and yet even the role of the eagle in Rev 12 of protecting Israel is consistent with the current role of the USA.  Most of the other kingdoms which have animal symbols in the bible have a negative connotation of "worldly" or "anti-Israel" empires... this great eagle is seen as the protector of Israel  which is a good thing. I don't support Zionism, but I do completely support the chosen race, Jews, being protected until Jesus comes.

 

I personally believe the USA population will come to realize its might is being used as a tool on behalf of European and Middle Eastern interests... and will begin to look inward and leave the realm of international warfare. We will have to see if this comes about.



#5
Salty

Salty

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,096 posts

I see the western Christian nations as lost Israel, which links America and Europe together. Most Jews don't like the idea, but some Jews understand it per Bible prophecy.

 

Satan and his workers on earth have long had the plan to take over all nations for their world kingdom with their king setup at Jerusalem. The early Church fathers of the 1st and 2nd centuries saw this for the end per God's Word, and many brethren in Christ Jesus today see it coming too. Our Heavenly Father is allowing it to happen. The majority will not really understand just why until it's over with our Lord Jesus' return.

 

I call it a test upon God's people to see who we will follow, and a test upon the wicked to see if they will continue in their wickedness. So in essence, it's to serve as a dividing line between the children of God and the children of darkness. Because it's of that kind of world scope, the traditional western Christian nation's political, financial, educational, and religious structures must be subdued, as likewise with all nations. The U.N. globalist structure serves in that exact function. The structure of their controls and international law upon the individual will continue to get tighter and tighter, until like Hitler's Germany, or Stalin's Russia, they have the power as a police state to arrest any dissadent that disagrees with their plans.



#6
other one

other one

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,012 posts

Firstly, please don't misunderstand me; I don't hate Americans nor do I wish to cause offense, I just want to know.  Also, I specify this present age because of the spiritual reality that these are territorial spirits: prince of Persia, daughter of Babylon, etc.

 

What think ye dear brethren?

there are things that might make us look like Babylon, but there are things that we don't fit into the description too.



#7
FresnoJoe

FresnoJoe

    Royal Member

  • Worthy Watchman
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 43,901 posts

I don't support Zionism, but I do completely support the chosen race, Jews, being protected until Jesus comes.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Today's Zionism

 

Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

 

But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

 

Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.

 

For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes. Jeremiah 16:14-17

 

And The Great

 

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Luke 21:20

 

Zionist 

 

The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. Joel 3:16



#8
098

098
  • Members
  • 12 posts

Hi there. No, Babylon is not America. It might be possible to see what Babylon is by simply reading Revelation 18. Revelation 18 calls Babylon the great city. This is the title given to Jerusalem in Rev 21, and to Sodom and Egypt in Rev 11, and to Ninevah elsewhere, among others. In fact the Bible talks about cities over and over again, and it is simply a parable way of looking at the same group of persons, those persons associated with God himself - they are the city. In fact, Jericho, was the city of palms, meaning of the righteous. Jericho means 'moon' which is a picture of the law of God, the Bible, the lesser light which is a reflection of Christ's light. Jerich had God's law. Yet Jericho's walls (which represent salvation) fell when Joshua (who represents Jesus) and the true believers marched around it. We learn that Babylon's walls fall during the hour of tribulation (which is not a literal hour but a time period). It is the period when God's holy spirit is withdrawn from the congregations and there is not any salvation left there. That is the very reason that Revelation 18 says that the voice of the bridgegroom (that's Jesus') will not be heard there again. It is the very reason that God says in Rev 18 to "come out of her my people". My people means the true believers. The true believers are told to spiritually come out of the fallen or false city.  It is not talking about political nations, like, say, present day America or present day Israel. It is saying that true believers are commanded to come out of the fallen congregations which do not have the holy spirit any longer. In fact, we find that just Lot came out of the city of Sodom before God overthrew the city, another picture of the same event. Noah, in like manner, was delivered in his covenant ark as the flood of destruction took over the not true believers. The religious who perish in Bablylon are pictured by the Pharisees in Jesus' day. They are the wicked generation which never disappears until all these things are accomplished. Fortunately, the true believers, who have been habitually rejected as they bring the truth to congregations, are delivered by God and continue to be saved. It is not a physical political event. It is talking about salvation vs. not. 



#9
Salty

Salty

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,096 posts

Hi there. No, Babylon is not America. It might be possible to see what Babylon is by simply reading Revelation 18. Revelation 18 calls Babylon the great city. This is the title given to Jerusalem in Rev 21, and to Sodom and Egypt in Rev 11, and to Ninevah elsewhere, among others. In fact the Bible talks about cities over and over again, and it is simply a parable way of looking at the same group of persons, those persons associated with God himself - they are the city. In fact, Jericho, was the city of palms, meaning of the righteous. Jericho means 'moon' which is a picture of the law of God, the Bible, the lesser light which is a reflection of Christ's light. Jerich had God's law. Yet Jericho's walls (which represent salvation) fell when Joshua (who represents Jesus) and the true believers marched around it. We learn that Babylon's walls fall during the hour of tribulation (which is not a literal hour but a time period). It is the period when God's holy spirit is withdrawn from the congregations and there is not any salvation left there. That is the very reason that Revelation 18 says that the voice of the bridgegroom (that's Jesus') will not be heard there again. It is the very reason that God says in Rev 18 to "come out of her my people". My people means the true believers. The true believers are told to spiritually come out of the fallen or false city.  It is not talking about political nations, like, say, present day America or present day Israel. It is saying that true believers are commanded to come out of the fallen congregations which do not have the holy spirit any longer. In fact, we find that just Lot came out of the city of Sodom before God overthrew the city, another picture of the same event. Noah, in like manner, was delivered in his covenant ark as the flood of destruction took over the not true believers. The religious who perish in Bablylon are pictured by the Pharisees in Jesus' day. They are the wicked generation which never disappears until all these things are accomplished. Fortunately, the true believers, who have been habitually rejected as they bring the truth to congregations, are delivered by God and continue to be saved. It is not a physical political event. It is talking about salvation vs. not. 

 

Glad someone else here besides me understands how God is using Babylon the harlot as a symbolic reference to Jerusalem for the end when the "abomination of desolation" idol is placed there by the coming Antichrist.

 

But you'll find many here that just... don't... like... that kind of association, and are trying to do everything they can to persuade brethren away from the harlotry coming in Jerusalem for the end. Some even want us to believe that today's Israel state is... Christ's Salvation today, when the majority there still reject Jesus of Nazareth as God's Promised Saviour! I refuse to fall away to that ignorance, regardless of where this forum is administered from.



#10
098

098
  • Members
  • 12 posts

Hi. Thanks Salty. Yes, the Bible is written in parable fashion providing pictures of how things happen (Psalm 78:2), but the events are not the kind of politcal events or physical wars and so forth that people imagine. Jerusalem is no different. The Bible's Jerusalem is not pointing to a political entity like the physical city in the present-day nation of Israel. In fact, Biblical Jerusalem is a picture of the Jerusalem above and the Jerusalem below (Galatians 4). The Jerusalem above is simply the whole group of saved persons who have ever existed and will exist (they are free from their sin penalty thanks to Christ). The Jerusalem below is rather those persons who are religious but don't have Christ (who expect the law to save them by their own righteousness). They are still in bondage to their sins and are not set free from their sin, because they have never truly received what Christ did for them. When congregations are looked at by God towards the end of the church age, if you will, he finds that they are filled with doctrines and tendencies of men, built by men, if you will (Genesis 18:20-21). Yet God builds his own people as he wills. The abomination that causes desolation is simply men's ways and ideas and men's authority entering into congregations such that the congregations are desolate of Christ. In other words, Christ is not present. The congregations become desolate. That is why Rev. 18 says that Christ's voice is no longer heard there. The people no longer have the Holy Spirit and so cannot hear Christ's voice. There is no physical image or statue involved. They idea of an image has to do with this. Christ's true believers are being made into his image by God himself. Any other group of persons is a false image of Christ, not meaning a physical statue or anything like that. Just not made in the image of Christ, which is perhaps what you may be saying as well.



#11
Salty

Salty

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,096 posts

Hi. Thanks Salty. Yes, the Bible is written in parable fashion providing pictures of how things happen (Psalm 78:2), but the events are not the kind of politcal events or physical wars and so forth that people imagine. Jerusalem is no different. The Bible's Jerusalem is not pointing to a political entity like the physical city in the present-day nation of Israel. In fact, Biblical Jerusalem is a picture of the Jerusalem above and the Jerusalem below (Galatians 4). The Jerusalem above is simply the whole group of saved persons who have ever existed and will exist (they are free from their sin penalty thanks to Christ). The Jerusalem below is rather those persons who are religious but don't have Christ (who expect the law to save them by their own righteousness). They are still in bondage to their sins and are not set free from their sin, because they have never truly received what Christ did for them. When congregations are looked at by God towards the end of the church age, if you will, he finds that they are filled with doctrines and tendencies of men, built by men, if you will (Genesis 18:20-21). Yet God builds his own people as he wills. The abomination that causes desolation is simply men's ways and ideas and men's authority entering into congregations such that the congregations are desolate of Christ. In other words, Christ is not present. The congregations become desolate. That is why Rev. 18 says that Christ's voice is no longer heard there. The people no longer have the Holy Spirit and so cannot hear Christ's voice. There is no physical image or statue involved. They idea of an image has to do with this. Christ's true believers are being made into his image by God himself. Any other group of persons is a false image of Christ, not meaning a physical statue or anything like that. Just not made in the image of Christ, which is perhaps what you may be saying as well.

 

I agree with most of that, though I strongly believe there will be an idol abomination setup there by the coming Antichrist/pseudo-Christ. See Ezekiel 8 also.



#12
098

098
  • Members
  • 12 posts

Hi. Thanks Salty. Fun to chat with you. Yes, we have different views. It seems many people have bought into the idea that there will be some sort a dashing wonder character called the Antichrist. I don't see any Biblical scripture that says that. The 'man of sin' is really a term that is sort of the opposite of the 'perfect man'. The body of Christ is being built up into a perfect man by God, with the whole body being a part of the man. One person is metaphorically the leg, another the arm, another the nose, Christ the head, and so forth as the analogy is presented. That the true believers are a part of the body of Christ is generally understood. What people fail to grasp, however, is that the 'man of sin' that is revealed follows this same pattern. The congregations become the man of sin when the Holy Spirit is no longer there, but it is simply a sinful or lost group of persons, rather than some wonder character. Ezekiel 8 that you mentioned simply follows the general theme of Ezekiel, which is to present the fact that the congregations fall out of favor with God as wickedness becomes them. As an Old Testament book, Ezekiel presents Judah (Jerusalem and Israel) as the case where this falling away from God occurs. However, like all Old Testament books, it is pointing to the same case that occurs relating to the church age later on, and specifically towards the end of that church age. The book is written for our benefit (present day Christians).The Old Testament uses parables to do this. Ezekiel's Judah is a picture of the fall of church age congregations. 



#13
Salty

Salty

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,096 posts

Hi. Thanks Salty. Fun to chat with you. Yes, we have different views. It seems many people have bought into the idea that there will be some sort a dashing wonder character called the Antichrist. I don't see any Biblical scripture that says that. The 'man of sin' is really a term that is sort of the opposite of the 'perfect man'. The body of Christ is being built up into a perfect man by God, with the whole body being a part of the man. One person is metaphorically the leg, another the arm, another the nose, Christ the head, and so forth as the analogy is presented. That the true believers are a part of the body of Christ is generally understood. What people fail to grasp, however, is that the 'man of sin' that is revealed follows this same pattern. The congregations become the man of sin when the Holy Spirit is no longer there, but it is simply a sinful or lost group of persons, rather than some wonder character. Ezekiel 8 that you mentioned simply follows the general theme of Ezekiel, which is to present the fact that the congregations fall out of favor with God as wickedness becomes them. As an Old Testament book, Ezekiel presents Judah (Jerusalem and Israel) as the case where this falling away from God occurs. However, like all Old Testament books, it is pointing to the same case that occurs relating to the church age later on, and specifically towards the end of that church age. The book is written for our benefit (present day Christians).The Old Testament uses parables to do this. Ezekiel's Judah is a picture of the fall of church age congregations. 

 

Look at Christ's warning in association with the "abomination of desolation" event in Matt.24:23-26. That is about a specific coming pseudo-Christ to Jerusalem to setup the abomination of the Book of Daniel. Look at Rev.13:11 forward also, because that's the same subject.



#14
098

098
  • Members
  • 12 posts

The abomination is simply that the congregations no longer have Christ and his Spirit. This means that they are desolate, meaning without Christ. There is no special meaning beyond this. Matthew 24:23-26 is an excellent illustration of this. The people in the congregations say that they have Christ but do not, and are therefore false prophets. Similarly, there will be those saying I am anointed when they are not. These are false Christs. Matthew says to not pay attention to such foolishness but to simply believe it not. Incidentally, the carcass mentioned right after that is parable language for the dead body of the congregations spiritually speaking.



#15
Salty

Salty

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,096 posts

The abomination is simply that the congregations no longer have Christ and his Spirit. This means that they are desolate, meaning without Christ. There is no special meaning beyond this. Matthew 24:23-26 is an excellent illustration of this. The people in the congregations say that they have Christ but do not, and are therefore false prophets. Similarly, there will be those saying I am anointed when they are not. These are false Christs. Matthew says to not pay attention to such foolishness but to simply believe it not. Incidentally, the carcass mentioned right after that is parable language for the dead body of the congregations spiritually speaking.

 

You're not taking to heart men's tradition that the one withholding, and later removed taken out of the way that Paul spoke of in 2 Thess.2 is The Holy Spirit, do you? That's actually about the Archangel Michael. It's one of the subjects within the Dan.10 chapter. Satan is being withheld back in the heavenly today until the time of the war with Michael in Rev.12:7. Dan.12:1 hints to that war, with Michael standing up (i.e., making a stand).

 

The Holy Spirit is going to remain here on earth all the way through ... the "great tribulation" Jesus taught. Some of His servants have a job to do by The Holy Spirit against Satan's host during the tribulation. God's two witnesses that will appear in Jerusalem per Rev.11 will lead it.

 

Earlier in Matt.24:5 Jesus was speaking of the many that come saying... they are Christ. That's John's "many antichrist" idea.

 

But the Matt.24:23-26 context is different, for it is about a singular coming 'pseudo-Christ'. The KJV phrase "false Christs" there is actually Greek 'psueodchristos', made up of two words, 'pseudo' and 'Christos' which is singular in the Greek. The singular context of the 23 & 26 verses reveal this too. And that is about the part where John said they heard that "antichrist shall come", meaning a singular antichrist, the Antichrist - pseudo-Christ, the one Paul warned of in 2 Thess.2:4, and Jesus warned us of again in Rev.13:11 forward.

 

The main difference between the two, (many antichrists vs. antichrist) is that the many who say they are Christ don't have a show a miracles of deception to back it up. The one in vv.23-26 does, even to the point that if possible, would deceive Christ's own very elect servants.



#16
OakWood

OakWood

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,083 posts

 

Hi there. No, Babylon is not America. It might be possible to see what Babylon is by simply reading Revelation 18. Revelation 18 calls Babylon the great city. This is the title given to Jerusalem in Rev 21, and to Sodom and Egypt in Rev 11, and to Ninevah elsewhere, among others. In fact the Bible talks about cities over and over again, and it is simply a parable way of looking at the same group of persons, those persons associated with God himself - they are the city. In fact, Jericho, was the city of palms, meaning of the righteous. Jericho means 'moon' which is a picture of the law of God, the Bible, the lesser light which is a reflection of Christ's light. Jerich had God's law. Yet Jericho's walls (which represent salvation) fell when Joshua (who represents Jesus) and the true believers marched around it. We learn that Babylon's walls fall during the hour of tribulation (which is not a literal hour but a time period). It is the period when God's holy spirit is withdrawn from the congregations and there is not any salvation left there. That is the very reason that Revelation 18 says that the voice of the bridgegroom (that's Jesus') will not be heard there again. It is the very reason that God says in Rev 18 to "come out of her my people". My people means the true believers. The true believers are told to spiritually come out of the fallen or false city.  It is not talking about political nations, like, say, present day America or present day Israel. It is saying that true believers are commanded to come out of the fallen congregations which do not have the holy spirit any longer. In fact, we find that just Lot came out of the city of Sodom before God overthrew the city, another picture of the same event. Noah, in like manner, was delivered in his covenant ark as the flood of destruction took over the not true believers. The religious who perish in Bablylon are pictured by the Pharisees in Jesus' day. They are the wicked generation which never disappears until all these things are accomplished. Fortunately, the true believers, who have been habitually rejected as they bring the truth to congregations, are delivered by God and continue to be saved. It is not a physical political event. It is talking about salvation vs. not. 

 

Glad someone else here besides me understands how God is using Babylon the harlot as a symbolic reference to Jerusalem for the end when the "abomination of desolation" idol is placed there by the coming Antichrist.

 

But you'll find many here that just... don't... like... that kind of association, and are trying to do everything they can to persuade brethren away from the harlotry coming in Jerusalem for the end. Some even want us to believe that today's Israel state is... Christ's Salvation today, when the majority there still reject Jesus of Nazareth as God's Promised Saviour! I refuse to fall away to that ignorance, regardless of where this forum is administered from.

 

 

Babylon is NOT a symbolic reference to Jerusalem. Your viewpoint is completely non-scriptural.



#17
Salty

Salty

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,096 posts

 

 

Hi there. No, Babylon is not America. It might be possible to see what Babylon is by simply reading Revelation 18. Revelation 18 calls Babylon the great city. This is the title given to Jerusalem in Rev 21, and to Sodom and Egypt in Rev 11, and to Ninevah elsewhere, among others. In fact the Bible talks about cities over and over again, and it is simply a parable way of looking at the same group of persons, those persons associated with God himself - they are the city. In fact, Jericho, was the city of palms, meaning of the righteous. Jericho means 'moon' which is a picture of the law of God, the Bible, the lesser light which is a reflection of Christ's light. Jerich had God's law. Yet Jericho's walls (which represent salvation) fell when Joshua (who represents Jesus) and the true believers marched around it. We learn that Babylon's walls fall during the hour of tribulation (which is not a literal hour but a time period). It is the period when God's holy spirit is withdrawn from the congregations and there is not any salvation left there. That is the very reason that Revelation 18 says that the voice of the bridgegroom (that's Jesus') will not be heard there again. It is the very reason that God says in Rev 18 to "come out of her my people". My people means the true believers. The true believers are told to spiritually come out of the fallen or false city.  It is not talking about political nations, like, say, present day America or present day Israel. It is saying that true believers are commanded to come out of the fallen congregations which do not have the holy spirit any longer. In fact, we find that just Lot came out of the city of Sodom before God overthrew the city, another picture of the same event. Noah, in like manner, was delivered in his covenant ark as the flood of destruction took over the not true believers. The religious who perish in Bablylon are pictured by the Pharisees in Jesus' day. They are the wicked generation which never disappears until all these things are accomplished. Fortunately, the true believers, who have been habitually rejected as they bring the truth to congregations, are delivered by God and continue to be saved. It is not a physical political event. It is talking about salvation vs. not. 

 

Glad someone else here besides me understands how God is using Babylon the harlot as a symbolic reference to Jerusalem for the end when the "abomination of desolation" idol is placed there by the coming Antichrist.

 

But you'll find many here that just... don't... like... that kind of association, and are trying to do everything they can to persuade brethren away from the harlotry coming in Jerusalem for the end. Some even want us to believe that today's Israel state is... Christ's Salvation today, when the majority there still reject Jesus of Nazareth as God's Promised Saviour! I refuse to fall away to that ignorance, regardless of where this forum is administered from.

 

 

Babylon is NOT a symbolic reference to Jerusalem. Your viewpoint is completely non-scriptural.

 

 

that's just your opinion, when I have Biblical evidence in Rev.11 that Christ called Jerusalem in the spiritual sense Sodom and Egypt! And The Father in Ezek.16 called Jerusalem a 'harlot' when it went into false worship in the past!



#18
inchrist

inchrist

    Veteran Member

  • Soapbox - Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 536 posts

that's just your opinion, when I have Biblical evidence in Rev.11 that Christ called Jerusalem in the spiritual sense Sodom and Egypt! And The Father in Ezek.16 called Jerusalem a 'harlot' when it went into false worship in the past!

 

 

What Biblical evidence?

 

Yes Christ called Jerusalem in the spiritual sense Sodom and Egypt because they are sisters of sisters, where do you see the words Babylon in the same verse? 

 

Yes Ezek 16 called jerusalem a harlot...but did Ezek call Jerusalem the mother of harlots? At the most Jerusalem has been called daughter of a harlot

 

Thats not much Biblical evidence you seem to be providing...what your providing is an assumption, an opinion, force fitting words into scripture and in your case even adding words to the bible, which is a BIG no no.

 

I tell you what, Ill believe in your anti-semtic theory if you can provide me the following and Ill apologies for not believing in your teaching.

 

Heres your challenge I dont want assumptions or your opinion I want biblical evidence

 

1. Find me anywhere in scripture where Jerusalem has ever been referred to as Babylon... In other words I want to see the words Jerusalem being referred to Babylon together in the same verse. Something similar to where Jerusalem is referenced to Sodom and Egypt

 

2. Find me anywhere in scripture Jerusalem is called the mother of harlots or the originator of harlotry,

something along the lines of this

 

She has never given up her harlotry [brought] from Egypt, For in her youth they had lain with her, Pressed her virgin bosom, And poured out their immorality upon her. (Ezekiel 23:8)

 

and 

 

Like mother, light daughter!' You are your mother's daughter loathing husband and children; and you are the sister of your sisters, who loathed their husbands and children; your mother was a Hittite and your father an Amorite. (Eze. 16:3, 44-45)

 

Since you said you have biblical evidence, this shouldnt be a problem right?, as it was easy for me to show Jerusalem is the daughter of Harlots, like wise you shouldnt have a problem showing scripture where Jerusalem is mentioned with the very words mother of Harlots

 

If you cant provide my two challenges with hard evidence without assumptions or your opinion forced into the scripture then I'm afraid your Jerusalem=babylon theory is nothing more than anti-semitic teaching



#19
OakWood

OakWood

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,083 posts

 

 

 

Hi there. No, Babylon is not America. It might be possible to see what Babylon is by simply reading Revelation 18. Revelation 18 calls Babylon the great city. This is the title given to Jerusalem in Rev 21, and to Sodom and Egypt in Rev 11, and to Ninevah elsewhere, among others. In fact the Bible talks about cities over and over again, and it is simply a parable way of looking at the same group of persons, those persons associated with God himself - they are the city. In fact, Jericho, was the city of palms, meaning of the righteous. Jericho means 'moon' which is a picture of the law of God, the Bible, the lesser light which is a reflection of Christ's light. Jerich had God's law. Yet Jericho's walls (which represent salvation) fell when Joshua (who represents Jesus) and the true believers marched around it. We learn that Babylon's walls fall during the hour of tribulation (which is not a literal hour but a time period). It is the period when God's holy spirit is withdrawn from the congregations and there is not any salvation left there. That is the very reason that Revelation 18 says that the voice of the bridgegroom (that's Jesus') will not be heard there again. It is the very reason that God says in Rev 18 to "come out of her my people". My people means the true believers. The true believers are told to spiritually come out of the fallen or false city.  It is not talking about political nations, like, say, present day America or present day Israel. It is saying that true believers are commanded to come out of the fallen congregations which do not have the holy spirit any longer. In fact, we find that just Lot came out of the city of Sodom before God overthrew the city, another picture of the same event. Noah, in like manner, was delivered in his covenant ark as the flood of destruction took over the not true believers. The religious who perish in Bablylon are pictured by the Pharisees in Jesus' day. They are the wicked generation which never disappears until all these things are accomplished. Fortunately, the true believers, who have been habitually rejected as they bring the truth to congregations, are delivered by God and continue to be saved. It is not a physical political event. It is talking about salvation vs. not. 

 

Glad someone else here besides me understands how God is using Babylon the harlot as a symbolic reference to Jerusalem for the end when the "abomination of desolation" idol is placed there by the coming Antichrist.

 

But you'll find many here that just... don't... like... that kind of association, and are trying to do everything they can to persuade brethren away from the harlotry coming in Jerusalem for the end. Some even want us to believe that today's Israel state is... Christ's Salvation today, when the majority there still reject Jesus of Nazareth as God's Promised Saviour! I refuse to fall away to that ignorance, regardless of where this forum is administered from.

 

 

Babylon is NOT a symbolic reference to Jerusalem. Your viewpoint is completely non-scriptural.

 

 

that's just your opinion, when I have Biblical evidence in Rev.11 that Christ called Jerusalem in the spiritual sense Sodom and Egypt! And The Father in Ezek.16 called Jerusalem a 'harlot' when it went into false worship in the past!

 

 

No - it's funny how when somebody presents evidence that conflicts with yours you call it 'opinion' or 'man-made doctrine' but when you yourself uses 'man-made doctrine' such as 'supercessionism' you refer to it as evidence.

 

Of course that's not to say that you're wrong, but if you are right then you are disagreeing with nearly everybody here on Worthy in which case you must be privy to revelations from God that the rest of us aren't!



#20
Salty

Salty

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,096 posts

The abomination is simply that the congregations no longer have Christ and his Spirit. This means that they are desolate, meaning without Christ. There is no special meaning beyond this. Matthew 24:23-26 is an excellent illustration of this. The people in the congregations say that they have Christ but do not, and are therefore false prophets. Similarly, there will be those saying I am anointed when they are not. These are false Christs. Matthew says to not pay attention to such foolishness but to simply believe it not. Incidentally, the carcass mentioned right after that is parable language for the dead body of the congregations spiritually speaking.

 

The Matt.24:23-26 Scripture by my Lord Jesus is an excellent example of exactly how... the coming Antichrist is going to work false worship of himself in Jerusalem. Nothing else to it.






Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Message Boards - 1999-2014 part of the Worthy Network