Forums

Before the rapture, there must be a resurrection.  Do you think it is OK to add a resurrection to facilitate your views?  The first resurrection is not until the end of the tribulation  

Why would the remnant survivors cry over Him like a first born if they are not from Israel? It may be that also gentile believers will live there, cause He got rid of the middle wall and every believer who died is in Jerusalem that comes down from heaven I suppose or they follow Him, but I don't see why someone who converts from the gentiles would weep over Him as a first born and why does it say everyone from the tribe of .. and their women. Makes no sense if you make that about spiritual Israel. What tribe are they from then?

Firstly, Jesus appears at the 7th Vial, not the 6th Seal, as a matter of fact the 6th Seal is merely a "Prophetic Utterance" only. The Wrath of God does not actually come unto the Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact (first 4 Trumps are one event which starts God's wrath which continues with Woe's 1, 2 and 3 and the 3rd Woe is the 7 Vials, and Jesus shows up in Rev. 16:19, at the 7th Vial. Now lets discuss why you are actually pointing towards a very, very important point in time, and why the A.C. needs to send out lying spirits. I will do this by asking you a question about the 6th Seal who FORETELLS what's going to happen when the wrath of God falls and the 7 Trumps contain all of Gods wrath, because the 7 vials emit from the 7th Trump. We know the 6th Seal says these men will hide in caves, too scared to come out, begging to be killed by the rocks. Lets take that info and ponder thus QUESTION: If you were not of God, and had taken the Mark of the Beast, then this Asteroid strikes, burning a 1/3 of the worlds trees, houses etc. etc. and the 1st Woe of tormenting Demons tormented you for 5 months, then the 200 Million Angels (thats what they are, they DELIVER God's Plagues, Satan CAN NOT kill Satan, Jesus said so) killed 1/3 of those who had taken the Mark of the Beast. Finally the 7th Trump sounds and starts the 3rd Woe, which is the 7 Vials, and as they were poured out men got grievous sores and boils if they had the Mark of the Beast, and they were scorched by the sun, and so......... THE QUESTION IS.........   in this case, with all of these plagues pounding down, would you not be "HIDING IN A CAVE"?  So, the answer is not why doesn't the Anti-Christ have power he does (but ONLY over the E.U. and Mediterranean Sea Region) but of course men are in hiding, he can not raise a standing army per se, BUT............alas, God needs the COWARDS to all gather at Armageddon, so he needs to STOP the plagues long enough to give the Anti-Christ, False Prophet and Satan the Dragon time enough to convince the kings of the WHOLE WORLD and their armies to come against Israel. In so doing Jesus upon his return can then wipe them all out. But its Satan's last gasp desperation Hail Mary. He has to wipe out every Jews in order to prove God i a liar. So, he needs to lie to these cowards cowering in caves, basements etc. etc.  So, he dries up his PLAGUES not the Euphrates River, which is just is a METAPHOR, long enough so those cowards in hiding can be persuaded to come out of hiding, go to Jerusalem and kill off al the Jews. So, what is the lie? The tell them, those Two Jewish Witnesses wrought all this havoc, they have now been killed, yes they prayed down every plague in public, on national TV before they happened, you all saw it, one by one, they even prayed down the these grievous sores, the scorching sun plague etc. before they died, but now its al STOPPED, so lets go kill every last Jew and this can NEVER, EVER HAPPEN AGAIN !! And these cowards who have the Mark of the Beast are easily talked into this, but alas we know their fate. This is the ONLY REASON that the Two-witnesses are even allowed to "die" and be raised, they have Glorious bodies, they do not need to "DIE" to be taken to Heaven right? God allows them to die so those men in caves can be fooled into thinking victory might be possible. We all know modern armies can cross rivers, so why do we not understand this Metaphor? The Euphrates DRYING UP is merely God DRYING UP His Plagues just long enough for these lying demons to entice these coward unto the Armageddon Battle where the "SPECTACLE" of Jesus slaying them all by the presence of his coming, will forever be understood as good conquering evil once and for all. The Anti-Christ is not in control of men per se, he is for a bit. Here is why? The First Four Trumps IMHO, come against the New World (the 1/3) so that will not affect the A.C. he is killing and maiming at will in the E.U. and the Mediterranean Sea Region ONLY, he never conquers the whole world, he conquers the WHOLE EARTH or land being spoken about in the 7 Headed (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the A.C.) 10 Horned (E.U.) Region. The First Woe is merely Demons torturing men for 5 months..........BUT WHO and WHY? I think its like when Moses drew the line and said stand ye this day on God's side or stand ye on their side as he came down with the 10 Commandments. These Demons are allowed by God (1st Woe, its a Plague from God) to torture those who are in limbo imho, not to kill them, but they must choose God or Satan (Mark of the Beast) one way or another, those who chose God will probably be killed after the 5 month period, or instantly by humans, but not by the Demons who can only torture. Then the 2nd Woe is 200 Million Angels who orders kick in after every person has made a CHOICE, they start killing 1/3 of all men  who have taken the Mark of the Beast these ARE NOT Demons, only Angels will kill Satan's allies, Satan can not kill Satan. Then finally the 3rd Woe comes, like I stated above, at the 6th Vial, God DRIES UP His Plagues (Euphrates River is a Metaphor) in order to ENTICE the cowards to show up at Armageddon.

To coin an old secular adage, “The closer to the bone, the sweeter the meat.” The closer we get to the source material and references, the more detail and accuracy. My point is: 1 Thes. 4: 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore lcomfort one another with these words. [emphasis mine] On scripture: I am not dogmatic, but I see nowhere in scripture that teaches a partial rapture. How could we comfort one another knowing some of our beloved brethren and loved ones missed the church age (age of Grace) Rapture and Resurrection? It seems the pronoun WE is all-encompassing and all-inclusive. I mentioned the early so-called church fathers. Polycarp was a personal friend and disciple of John the Revelator, studying under John, not to mention Irenaeus under Polycarp and all the other so-called Ante-Nicene fathers. None of them knew what is spouted today as partial raptures. Short of reverifying, I do not recall any Reformation leaders of the sixteenth century mentioning partial raptures. This doctrinal introduction is a product of the 19th century, which is very late in Biblical terms. It is not to say there will only be one rapture and one glorification. I believe those Tribulation martyrs (and ourselves) will return with Christ at His 2nd coming, then having their glorified bodies. And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (Revelation 6:11) The final resurrection is the Great White Throne judgment, where those not written in the Lamb’s Book of Life are bodily resurrected, condemned, and join the Antichrist and False Prophet in the Lake of Fire. I also would like @AdHoc to chime in. I consistently learn from you both, getting alternate views and thoughts.

Let me just say that, as interesting as it is, much further discussion of the rapture should probably be done in a separate thread, as the topic has the propensity to take off!