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Question on hell and the second death.

* * * * * 1 votes Hell Second death mercy judgement

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#1
Joshua-777

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I would like to test a view on the hell and the second death to see if there's holes in it or if it can stand scripturally. 

 

In Revelation 20:11-15, hell, a place where those are waiting the final judgment as it shows in 2 Peter 2:4, will be thrown into the lake of fire with all the dead that are left in it. This is called the second death. Now, when the devil is thrown in the lake of fire, it says he will burn for ever and ever, but when hell and the dead who are in it, it calls that the second death. Could it be possible that the second death is the death of the soul/spirit, and an act of God's mercy on those who are in hell?  

 

 

 

2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison  8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.  9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.  10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.  12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.  13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.  14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.  15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

 



#2
bopeep1909

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The second death is synonymous with the lake of fire.It is a "death" in that it is a separation from God,the Giver of life.It is called the "second" one because it follows physical death.

Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

This is the second death in relation to the future period the Millenium.

The second death is a reference to the lake of fire where those who are separated from God by their sin,will dwell for an eternity.The coming judgment should also challenge believers to share their faith.There is a vast difference between the final destination of those who know Christ and those who do not.



#3
Joshua-777

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The second death is synonymous with the lake of fire.It is a "death" in that it is a separation from God,the Giver of life.It is called the "second" one because it follows physical death.

Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

This is the second death in relation to the future period the Millenium.

The second death is a reference to the lake of fire where those who are separated from God by their sin,will dwell for an eternity.The coming judgment should also challenge believers to share their faith.There is a vast difference between the final destination of those who know Christ and those who do not.

 

 

I agree that being thrown into the lake of fire is the second death. When the devil was thrown into the lake, it says he will burn forever and ever, but when people are, it calls that the second death. It is different from hell, since hell is also being thrown into the lake of fire. What I was asking was, since hell is a place of torture, and those who go there will be tormented, could it be that the second death is the destruction of the soul and spirit in the lake of fire?   



#4
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It seems a study of the meaning of death is in order !

 

1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
 



#5
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It seems a study of the meaning of death is in order !

 

1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
 

So if death dies in the second death..... now I've gone cross eyed. :)



#6
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I would like to test a view on the hell and the second death to see if there's holes in it or if it can stand scripturally. 

 

In Revelation 20:11-15, hell, a place where those are waiting the final judgment as it shows in 2 Peter 2:4, will be thrown into the lake of fire with all the dead that are left in it. This is called the second death. Now, when the devil is thrown in the lake of fire, it says he will burn for ever and ever, but when hell and the dead who are in it, it calls that the second death. Could it be possible that the second death is the death of the soul/spirit, and an act of God's mercy on those who are in hell?  

 

 

"Death of the soul/spirit", as in ceasing to exist? No burning for eternity?



#7
Joshua-777

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I would like to test a view on the hell and the second death to see if there's holes in it or if it can stand scripturally. 

 

In Revelation 20:11-15, hell, a place where those are waiting the final judgment as it shows in 2 Peter 2:4, will be thrown into the lake of fire with all the dead that are left in it. This is called the second death. Now, when the devil is thrown in the lake of fire, it says he will burn for ever and ever, but when hell and the dead who are in it, it calls that the second death. Could it be possible that the second death is the death of the soul/spirit, and an act of God's mercy on those who are in hell?  

 

 

"Death of the soul/spirit", as in ceasing to exist? No burning for eternity?

 

Ya, just wondering.



#8
JohnDB

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When these kinds of topics are raised, rarely is the fullness of the subject ever discussed. We are a threefold being of body soul and spirit.

 

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NASB95)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

In the day of judgment / resurrection, all are raised for the purpose of bowing the knee to Jesus and to confess he is Lord to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:9-11).

 

The condemned will be thrown into the lake of fire along with death and hell and the fallen angels both in and outside of the abyss. Everything physical will be destroyed by the fire:

 

Malachi 4:3 (NASB95)
3 “You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.

 

The souls will cease to exist as they are the buffer between the two realities of spirit and of the physical. The spirit will live on after this second death in eternal torment. 

 

Spirits do not die. They must therefore be detained someplace apart from God / paradise...

 

Matthew 25:41 (NASB95)
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

 

This does not mean solely for the devil and his angels since the verse itself speaks of men going there. It means it was originally prepared for the devil and his angels before mankind even existed... or another possible interpretation of this is that all who follow satan are messengers (angels) of the devil.

 

So when one considers all, then all three camps about death / the afterlife / hell are correct. Part of us (our soul) ceases to exist. The body ceases to be animated / corporeal and appears to sleep and begins to decay into the basic elements. Our spirit lives on, alert, self aware, possessing quite a number of traits mistaken for those only of the physical body...

 

Consider in the account of the rich man and Lazarus (an event in the spirit / spirit realm).

 

Sight, hearing, speech (over the vast gulf, I might add), instantaneous recognition of each other (as were Moses and Elijah on the mount of transfiguration, btw) a finger, a tongue, thirst, agonizing pain in fire... which some scholars explain as anthropomorphism (putting something alien to humanity into human terms). But where does it say the spirit (our spirit) is some invisible cloud / will of the wisp? Where in our body is our spirit? Where in our body is there an absence of spirit? Is our spirit really so unlike our bodies?

 

The+Three+Who+Are+ME.jpg



#9
bopeep1909

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The second death is synonymous with the lake of fire.It is a "death" in that it is a separation from God,the Giver of life.It is called the "second" one because it follows physical death.

Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

This is the second death in relation to the future period the Millenium.

The second death is a reference to the lake of fire where those who are separated from God by their sin,will dwell for an eternity.The coming judgment should also challenge believers to share their faith.There is a vast difference between the final destination of those who know Christ and those who do not.

 

 

I agree that being thrown into the lake of fire is the second death. When the devil was thrown into the lake, it says he will burn forever and ever, but when people are, it calls that the second death. It is different from hell, since hell is also being thrown into the lake of fire. What I was asking was, since hell is a place of torture, and those who go there will be tormented, could it be that the second death is the destruction of the soul and spirit in the lake of fire?   

 

I do not think the lake of fire is the destruction of our body or our soul.They will be forever conscious and will be very alive and aware during this eternity of torment.



#10
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Not only do I not know for sure, I have no intention of personally finding out.   To me it's irrelevant for I don't follow Jesus as a fire insurance policy, I follow him for the sake of being in his presence...   right now through the Spirit and some day in person...



#11
Butch5

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I would like to test a view on the hell and the second death to see if there's holes in it or if it can stand scripturally. 

 

In Revelation 20:11-15, hell, a place where those are waiting the final judgment as it shows in 2 Peter 2:4, will be thrown into the lake of fire with all the dead that are left in it. This is called the second death. Now, when the devil is thrown in the lake of fire, it says he will burn for ever and ever, but when hell and the dead who are in it, it calls that the second death. Could it be possible that the second death is the death of the soul/spirit, and an act of God's mercy on those who are in hell?  

 

 

 

2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison  8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.  9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.  10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.  12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.  13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.  14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.  15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

It is helpful t differentiate between, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus, all of which are translated hell, yet they are three completely different places.



#12
Butch5

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I would like to test a view on the hell and the second death to see if there's holes in it or if it can stand scripturally. 

 

In Revelation 20:11-15, hell, a place where those are waiting the final judgment as it shows in 2 Peter 2:4, will be thrown into the lake of fire with all the dead that are left in it. This is called the second death. Now, when the devil is thrown in the lake of fire, it says he will burn for ever and ever, but when hell and the dead who are in it, it calls that the second death. Could it be possible that the second death is the death of the soul/spirit, and an act of God's mercy on those who are in hell?  

 

 

"Death of the soul/spirit", as in ceasing to exist? No burning for eternity?

 

Hi Man,

 

That is what the Scriptures teach. They don't teach the idea of burning for eternity. 



#13
OakWood

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Not only do I not know for sure, I have no intention of personally finding out.   To me it's irrelevant for I don't follow Jesus as a fire insurance policy, I follow him for the sake of being in his presence...   right now through the Spirit and some day in person...

 

I agree. I don't want to personally find out either.



#14
SDAinFLA

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I agree...I don't want to find out either! hahah

 

However, in all seriousness, this doctrine of eternal burning has caused a lot of confusion amongst believers and probably is a point of reference for unbelievers who always say that "our" God delights in suffering. A believer should always be able to explain his/her beliefs according to the Word. This includes hell fire.

 

It really appears that the lost literally burn forever throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity, but a few references in the OT gives us some insight that eternal burning was not a literal burning, but the lesson would be eternal.

"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Jude 7

 

I don't think that Sodom and Gomorrha are burning today, but the lesson serves as an example even thousands of years later. This is that eternal fire that the Bible is talking about

 

This same eternal fire shows up once again at the end of the world...which serves as an eternal reminder of the dangers of sin. It serves no purpose to watch people suffer throughout eternity.

 

In my sinful flesh I can't watch suffering...I find it hard to believe I will be able to watch it once I'm glorified



#15
fruitfull77

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There is no hell right now.

The dead from the past, bad or good,  are in their graves.

when the word "hell" is used many times over in the Bible is means grave or pit. The majority of times the greek word hades is used or Hebrew's " sheof '

2Peter 2:4 uses tartarus which means restrained referring only to the fallen angels.

Gehenna is the only soul killer.

Think of the billions that have died without knowing Christ. Where are they now?

Dante's Inferno is responsible for a lot of misunderstanding.

No one currently dead are being tortured in a hell fire now. That torment is only reserved for Satan and his demons.Matt 25:41

None of our loved ones are suffering right now.

Since we have mortal souls 1 cor 15:53-54 and can perish in Gehenna, only the unrepenting souls will be thrown in and burn up completely.Those saved will become immortal spirits-the others will experience the second death-Rev 20;15 

We can't burn forever unless we are immortal spirits and only satan and his demons are immortal spirits and will be tortured forever.

that's the way I see it.

 



#16
WillfromTexas

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There is no hell right now.

The dead from the past, bad or good,  are in their graves.

when the word "hell" is used many times over in the Bible is means grave or pit. The majority of times the greek word hades is used or Hebrew's " sheof '

2Peter 2:4 uses tartarus which means restrained referring only to the fallen angels.

Gehenna is the only soul killer.

Think of the billions that have died without knowing Christ. Where are they now?

Dante's Inferno is responsible for a lot of misunderstanding.

No one currently dead are being tortured in a hell fire now. That torment is only reserved for Satan and his demons.Matt 25:41

None of our loved ones are suffering right now.

Since we have mortal souls 1 cor 15:53-54 and can perish in Gehenna, only the unrepenting souls will be thrown in and burn up completely.Those saved will become immortal spirits-the others will experience the second death-Rev 20;15 

We can't burn forever unless we are immortal spirits and only satan and his demons are immortal spirits and will be tortured forever.

that's the way I see it.

 

Satan doesn't have immortality either- only God.  When God finally casts it all into outer darkness all sin including Satan and the fallen angels will cease to exist.

 

1 Timothy 6:16

Who alone has immortality [in the sense of exemption from every kind of death] and lives in unapproachable light, Whom no man has ever seen or can see. Unto Him be honor and everlasting power and dominion. Amen (so be it).
 
We are given immortality through Jesus and that is the ONLY way for a human being to become immortal.
 
Where people get messed up is not understanding what makes a living soul.  Your spirit is the breath of life from God and it returns to God at your death.  But it does not contain your thoughts/feelings/personality.  A living soul is the combination of God's breath+the body=you.  Without either one you cease to exist.  The body you have now will be the one you have in Heaven- only glorified.
 
It's jarring to many because mainstream preachers still preach an immortal soul and eternal torment.  For me personally when I first heard about this concept, many years ago,  I thought it couldn't be true.  Yet when you learn the scriptures you find that is exactly the truth.


#17
bopeep1909

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Ever held the hand of someone who has died?The hand instantly becomes lighter.



#18
Izzel

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When these kinds of topics are raised, rarely is the fullness of the subject ever discussed. We are a threefold being of body soul and spirit.

 

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NASB95)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

In the day of judgment / resurrection, all are raised for the purpose of bowing the knee to Jesus and to confess he is Lord to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:9-11).

 

The condemned will be thrown into the lake of fire along with death and hell and the fallen angels both in and outside of the abyss. Everything physical will be destroyed by the fire:

 

Malachi 4:3 (NASB95)
3 “You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.

 

The souls will cease to exist as they are the buffer between the two realities of spirit and of the physical. The spirit will live on after this second death in eternal torment. 

 

Spirits do not die. They must therefore be detained someplace apart from God / paradise...

 

Matthew 25:41 (NASB95)
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

 

This does not mean solely for the devil and his angels since the verse itself speaks of men going there. It means it was originally prepared for the devil and his angels before mankind even existed... or another possible interpretation of this is that all who follow satan are messengers (angels) of the devil.

 

So when one considers all, then all three camps about death / the afterlife / hell are correct. Part of us (our soul) ceases to exist. The body ceases to be animated / corporeal and appears to sleep and begins to decay into the basic elements. Our spirit lives on, alert, self aware, possessing quite a number of traits mistaken for those only of the physical body...

 

Consider in the account of the rich man and Lazarus (an event in the spirit / spirit realm).

 

Sight, hearing, speech (over the vast gulf, I might add), instantaneous recognition of each other (as were Moses and Elijah on the mount of transfiguration, btw) a finger, a tongue, thirst, agonizing pain in fire... which some scholars explain as anthropomorphism (putting something alien to humanity into human terms). But where does it say the spirit (our spirit) is some invisible cloud / will of the wisp? Where in our body is our spirit? Where in our body is there an absence of spirit? Is our spirit really so unlike our bodies?

 

The+Three+Who+Are+ME.jpg

 

The wicked will not be tormented forever the rich man and lazerus was a parable 

 

No one can actually take water to that place 



#19
bopeep1909

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When these kinds of topics are raised, rarely is the fullness of the subject ever discussed. We are a threefold being of body soul and spirit.

 

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NASB95)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

In the day of judgment / resurrection, all are raised for the purpose of bowing the knee to Jesus and to confess he is Lord to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:9-11).

 

The condemned will be thrown into the lake of fire along with death and hell and the fallen angels both in and outside of the abyss. Everything physical will be destroyed by the fire:

 

Malachi 4:3 (NASB95)
3 “You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.

 

The souls will cease to exist as they are the buffer between the two realities of spirit and of the physical. The spirit will live on after this second death in eternal torment. 

 

Spirits do not die. They must therefore be detained someplace apart from God / paradise...

 

Matthew 25:41 (NASB95)
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

 

This does not mean solely for the devil and his angels since the verse itself speaks of men going there. It means it was originally prepared for the devil and his angels before mankind even existed... or another possible interpretation of this is that all who follow satan are messengers (angels) of the devil.

 

So when one considers all, then all three camps about death / the afterlife / hell are correct. Part of us (our soul) ceases to exist. The body ceases to be animated / corporeal and appears to sleep and begins to decay into the basic elements. Our spirit lives on, alert, self aware, possessing quite a number of traits mistaken for those only of the physical body...

 

Consider in the account of the rich man and Lazarus (an event in the spirit / spirit realm).

 

Sight, hearing, speech (over the vast gulf, I might add), instantaneous recognition of each other (as were Moses and Elijah on the mount of transfiguration, btw) a finger, a tongue, thirst, agonizing pain in fire... which some scholars explain as anthropomorphism (putting something alien to humanity into human terms). But where does it say the spirit (our spirit) is some invisible cloud / will of the wisp? Where in our body is our spirit? Where in our body is there an absence of spirit? Is our spirit really so unlike our bodies?

 

The+Three+Who+Are+ME.jpg

Our soul or our spirit is everything about you that is inside of you that you can not see..



#20
fruitfull77

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There is no hell right now.

The dead from the past, bad or good,  are in their graves.

when the word "hell" is used many times over in the Bible is means grave or pit. The majority of times the greek word hades is used or Hebrew's " sheof '

2Peter 2:4 uses tartarus which means restrained referring only to the fallen angels.

Gehenna is the only soul killer.

Think of the billions that have died without knowing Christ. Where are they now?

Dante's Inferno is responsible for a lot of misunderstanding.

No one currently dead are being tortured in a hell fire now. That torment is only reserved for Satan and his demons.Matt 25:41

None of our loved ones are suffering right now.

Since we have mortal souls 1 cor 15:53-54 and can perish in Gehenna, only the unrepenting souls will be thrown in and burn up completely.Those saved will become immortal spirits-the others will experience the second death-Rev 20;15 

We can't burn forever unless we are immortal spirits and only satan and his demons are immortal spirits and will be tortured forever.

that's the way I see it.

 

Satan doesn't have immortality either- only God.  When God finally casts it all into outer darkness all sin including Satan and the fallen angels will cease to exist.

 

1 Timothy 6:16

Who alone has immortality [in the sense of exemption from every kind of death] and lives in unapproachable light, Whom no man has ever seen or can see. Unto Him be honor and everlasting power and dominion. Amen (so be it).
 
We are given immortality through Jesus and that is the ONLY way for a human being to become immortal.
 
Where people get messed up is not understanding what makes a living soul.  Your spirit is the breath of life from God and it returns to God at your death.  But it does not contain your thoughts/feelings/personality.  A living soul is the combination of God's breath+the body=you.  Without either one you cease to exist.  The body you have now will be the one you have in Heaven- only glorified.
 
It's jarring to many because mainstream preachers still preach an immortal soul and eternal torment.  For me personally when I first heard about this concept, many years ago,  I thought it couldn't be true.  Yet when you learn the scriptures you find that is exactly the truth.

 

Angels are immortal beings-including satan

God created them before mankind -they are spiritual beings existing in another dimension-the spiritual world..

They are not eternal like God but they are immortal. God gave them immortality from the beginning-they were never physical.

They never age, procreate, with no ending, and they do not die. Luke 20:36

Unlike us, we were created physical, and have to be given immortality by God at the 1st resurrection of the saints-afterwards all the rest of the dead who ever lived will be raised back  to a physical life and given a chance to earn immortality-if they refuse to live by God's word then they will be put in the lake of fire and destroyed for good-this is the second death. As immortal spirits the fallen angels and satan will spend eternity in the lake of fire tortured for their evil ways.






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