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History Questions on the Church?

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9 replies to this topic

#1
JTC

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I don't know where to put this, so I'm putting it here. Mods please move it if you deem that necessary.

I'm not trying to be contentious. I'm trying to understand the history of our faith. Besides general knowledge, I think this is more important now more than ever because fanatical Islam is starting to threaten the world.

The Jewish scriptures go back many thousands of years, and that's great. The NT scriptures are not as certain. I asked a similar question a year or more ago, and someone said by the time the Catholic church had started all the original Christians were dead. That's very disturbing. I'm not even sure what year the CC started, but at that time wasn't the CC the only Christian church there was, until it split into east and west, and what I heard, that happened because the Muslims were attacking Europe. So I'm wondering what kind of Christian church existed before the Catholic church? Once there was a Catholic church was there even any other form of Christian church? I don't think there was. Not until Martin Luther came along and exposed some ungodly things the upper members of the CC were doing.

I'm trying to understand everything we know, and bring it all together so it makes sense. That includes what science tells us. But by it's very nature science will always change and God doesn't. So science is at the bottom of the list.

Does anyone know enough history to answer some of my questions?



#2
Trinitron

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There were first century Christians.  Flavia Domitilla, part of the Flavian Royal family, donated land for the first Christian catacombs is considered to be the first Christian saint lived at the close of the first century.  Her son is considered the first pope after Peter.  You can find information on her at newadvent.org at the catholic encyclopedia.

 

There was also a documentary made by Simcha Jacobovici that shows first century Christians traveled with Roman soldiers for protection when migrating.  It's also obvious that the New Testament books traveled on Roman roads as that was the only way for them to travel during the period.

 

At the very least, these events I'm describing happened before the writing of the book Revelation.  So as you can see, this is all very early before the first Christians could have died off.  Speaking of St. John, Polycarp was born AD 69, was a John disciple and had well known contemporaries Clement and Ignatius.  All three still have preserved epistles.

 

To add to my post, Eusebius, early church historian and bishop, records all of the Christian murders for the first 300 years of Christianity.  The count is about 9 bishops and less that 2,000 Christians  over all in over 100 provinces.  That's fewer than 7 victims a year.  Christian persecution claimed less Christians lives than strikes of lightening.  So as you can see, there is no gap where some original Christians were all dead and new ones somehow emerged.


Edited by Trinitron, 15 June 2014 - 09:59 AM.


#3
OakWood

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There are still Christian churches around today that existed before Catholicism started. Some examples are the Armenian Apostolic Church, the Egyptian Coptic Church and the Assyrian Church of the East. All the books of the New Testament were completed before the end of the 1st Century A.D.

Some years later, many Churches that existed in the lands of the Roman Empire were eventually incorporated under the Rome / Constantinople umbrella.

 

The Eastern and Western Orthodox Catholic churches split because of ideological differences. I don't think that it had anything to do with Muslims, although saying that, even when Mohammed was still alive, threats were already being made against the Constantinople patriarchy.

Muslims made many attacks against the Eastern part of the Empire and managed to annexe and subjugate many Christian areas especially in the Middle East but Constantinople itself remained protected until 1453.

 

Because Islam was created by falsifying parts of the Bible and then using this twisted scripture to create a new and false gospel (which we know today as the Q'uran), Islam and Christianity have some historical links. It's worth remembering though that for the first five hundred years or so, Christianity survived without threats from any Muslims as Islam did not exist until it was created from inside the sick mind of Mohammed around 600 AD.



#4
JTC

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I get very confused with all the men named John. And I'm becoming too forgetful for my age. But who is John Polycarp? Is this John the apostle?

 

Oakwood, since you live in GB, let me ask you something. I heard on the news that Islam is taking over certain areas in England. Is this true? (I wish my memory was better) I don't remember exactly what I heard, only that it's real bad news for Christians.



#5
Trinitron

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No, I said speaking of John, and then put a comma and mentioned Polycarp.  Some of my posts on this site are confusing.  It is because I am unable to copy paste, post images, or videos, or even quoting other members.  This makes my posting ability severely limited on getting concise information available to my friends here.


Edited by Trinitron, 15 June 2014 - 10:03 AM.


#6
OakWood

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I get very confused with all the men named John. And I'm becoming too forgetful for my age. But who is John Polycarp? Is this John the apostle?

 

Oakwood, since you live in GB, let me ask you something. I heard on the news that Islam is taking over certain areas in England. Is this true? (I wish my memory was better) I don't remember exactly what I heard, only that it's real bad news for Christians.

 

Islam has taken over a number of communities. The best known example is Tower Hamlets which is a suburb of London (near the Tower of London).

In the recent local elections, electoral fraud was believed to have taken place. When attempts were made to investigate this, the Muslims threatened to resort to violence if the results were questioned. Muslims control their own areas and have driven out many non-Muslims. Some of these areas are even no-go zones for the police or emergency services.

At the moment, Muslim areas are just ghettoes - no different really to any urban areas that might be controlled by criminal gangs, but as Muslim numbers grow, I will expect them to take over entire towns.

In the U.S.A. I believe that you have Dearborn, Michigan which is a similar example.



#7
kwikphilly

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Of course this mostly refers to a "building",I still thought you mind find it interesting

 

 

Archaeologists have unearthed what they believe to be the first Christian church ever built. It’s located in a cave underneath the Saint Georgeous Church in Rihab in northern Jordan – where it’s thought early Christians fled to escape persecut

Built in 230 AD, Saint Georgeous is believed to be the oldest “proper” church in the world.

Archaeologists say they have evidence suggesting the church sheltered the 70 disciples of Jesus Christ.

According to experts, the 70 fled from Jerusalem during the persecution of Christians.  The secret underground church allowed them to practise their rituals in secret. Historians say they didn’t leave the cave until the Christian religion was embraced by the Roman Empire.

A mosaic inscription on the floor of the church describes the early Christians as ‘the 70 beloved by God and Divine’.

Archaeologists say there is a circle shape area in the cave, believed to be the apse, and several stone seats for the ecclesiastics.

So far, 30 churches have been unearthed in Rihab.

Governor Zeid Zreiqat hopes the latest discovery will attract religious tourism.

 

Historic writings support the belief 1 that in 37 A.D. St Joseph of Arimathea (Christ’s great uncle, according to one source) followed by the apostle St Simon Zelotes and later by St Paul of Tarsus with other disciples (according to the Pseudo-Pauline apocrypha: “Acts 29” - from the Sonnini manuscript, on hearing of Jewish Christians settling in Britain, Paul of Tarsus travelled there via Spain from Rome, this is a disputed text but still in antiquity), came to Britannia, to erect the first Christian Church outside Jerusalem, further undisputed evidence supports the existence of established Christianity in Britain from this time and there has been a Church of England (Britannia) ever since although it’s affiliations, allegiances and doctrines have been moderated and switched between Rome and England several times throughout its history:

Another point of interest may be in the 2nd article.....quoted above



#8
Trinitron

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Interesting theories.


Edited by Trinitron, 21 June 2014 - 06:56 AM.


#9
JTC

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I'm always looking for ways to make peace between groups who think no peace is possible. Due to my poor memory, I'm not sure of why I even started this thread. Historically, there has been conflict between denominations, protestants vs Catholics, Protestants & Catholics vs Jews, but now we have a real problem. I don't believe all Muslims are homicidal fanatics. But because Islam is so big, the percentage that do want to kill non Muslims is quite large.So I think at least Protestants and Catholics should learn to see our similarities, instead of our differences

 

For example, Protestants usually tell new comers to the Bible to start with John's Gospel. I know I was. But now that I've read the NT several times I see John's Gospel as the one that supports Catholicism the most. But in the past, some of you told me John's Gospel was written rather early. So if that's true why does it support Catholicism the most out of all 4? Was it altered after Catholicism was born, or is it right? I have issues with Catholicism too. But maybe instead of creating new churches (and many of them are in conflict too) we should be trying to help straighten out the CC. 

 

One year ago, after the Sandy storm, I wound up getting Verizon TV service and 2 Catholic channels came with it. I knew from the 1990's there was a Charismatic movement in the CC. It wasn't as well accepted as I hoped for. But it still lives and it's growing. I have a local CC and at least 1 priest and the deacon who does the Mass with him seem to be Charismatic. When they pray they hold their hands up, like protestants do, rather than put together like most Catholics. They also don't speak much about Mary and the saints, but instead they speak of Jesus. I think this is good. I think Pope Francis is also going to support the Charismatic movement, but he has to go slowly. 

 

I think when I started this thread I was wondering if any non Catholic Christian churches still existed when Catholicism started. I don't know if anyone can even be sure of that, and how they'd be sure.

 

I definitely feel if we are going to stop the spread of radical Islam, all of us who call Jesus God, and accept  the death and resurrection of Jesus as the reason God forgives our sins, then we must come together.



#10
AT7iLA

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http://en.wikipedia....of_Christianity






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