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Two Questions For Unbelievers


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#1
FresnoJoe

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Two Questions For Unbelievers
From The Blog Of Eric Hovind

Question #1:

Is it possible that the God of the Bible could reveal some things to us in such a way that we can know them for certain?

Question #2:

How do you know anything for certain?


#2
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Two Questions For Unbelievers
From The Blog Of Eric Hovind

Question #1:

Is it possible that the God of the Bible could reveal some things to us in such a way that we can know them for certain?

Question #2:

How do you know anything for certain?


Since I don't know if I am an unbeliever (still seeker....), I will try to put my unbeliever hat on and try to respond:

Question 1: There are many things that could prove God existence. A big voice from the skies heard by everybody could be
a possibility (even though, I am not sure that would satisfy the solipsists or ET believers amongst us). I would settle for a
clear cut prophecy from a pastor/prophet that turns out to be true. For instance: tomorrow there will be a biblical plague that
will strike a certain country, and this really happens. Prophecies done in the past and confirmed by people in the past won't do.

Question 2: Atheists do not have certainties. Doubt is a common denominator for (most) unbelievers. They reason in terms
of probability based on evidence. They view God's existence as highly improbable and not higher than the probability of Allah's (or any other God's)
existence. They would also likely return the question to you ;-)



the pharisees had miracles done right in front of them an they still didnt believe. well i mean they believed that there was a God but they rejected that Christ was their Lord. an he demonstrated his power right in front of them. an they called him a drunkard an demon possessed.

#3
FresnoJoe

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Bump

#4
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As a matter of interest, having posed the questions and anticipated the answers, Hovind concludes that: "The Christ follower has an avenue to truth; the unbelieverís own logic cannot account for knowledge. You either have to know everything to know anything, or you have to know someone who knows everything to know something! Think about that!"

But what if the "God of the Bible" was replaced by Tammuz so the questions become:

Question #1: Is it possible that the God named Tammuz could reveal some things to us in such a way that we can know them for certain?

Question #2: How do you know anything for certain?

If Hovind is consistent and follows his own "logic" all the way through, he will conclude that, "The Tammuz follower has an avenue to truth" that is on par with the truth he wishes to claim exclusively for his own religion.




Regarding question 1, Hovind says "the unbeliever is forced to answer yes", but that is not necessarily the case. It MAY be possible for god to reveal things that are certain, but we don't know if he has, or what they may be. The point is, the unbeliever is not forced to answer yes, because there are too many variables.

Regarding question 2, Hovind says "an unbeliever will have to say that he cannot know anything for certain", but that is not true. The unbeliever can be certain there is an American city named Chicago, certain that 1+1=2, and certain that Earth is not the centre of the solar system. There are some things the unbeliever does know for certain and it is wrong to say "he cannot know anything for certain".

#5
FresnoJoe

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....The unbeliever can be certain there is an American city named Chicago, certain that 1+1=2, and certain that Earth is not the centre of the solar system. There are some things the unbeliever does know for certain and it is wrong to say "he cannot know anything for certain".....

Thank You Dear One For Your Thoughtful Answers To These Two Questions
There Are Core Truths That Evey Man Will Face Now Or Later

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. Psalms 53:1

And Believers Know God (Who Does Not Lie) Says, All Men Know

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

And All Men Will Choose And All Men Will Be Judged

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:25-26

And Not Even Death Will Hide A Fellow

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 6:26-29

You See

>>>>>()<<<<<

Believe

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
John 11:25-27

And Be Blessed Beloved

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 3:5-7

Love, Joe

#6
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The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. Psalms 53:1


Interesting that you quote a Psalmist who calls unbelievers fools, when Matthew (5:22) makes it clear that: "...whoever says 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire."

Is the Psalmist in hell do you think?



Just for the record, and despite what the Psalmist has written, I am not corrupt, and I have not done abominable iniquity. I am surprised that you are prepared to imply that perhaps I have. Would you care to elaborate?

#7
MorningGlory

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If Hovind is consistent and follows his own "logic" all the way through, he will conclude that, "The Tammuz follower has an avenue to truth" that is on par with the truth he wishes to claim exclusively for his own religion.



:laugh:

#8
Seriousseeker

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The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. Psalms 53:1


Interesting that you quote a Psalmist who calls unbelievers fools, when Matthew (5:22) makes it clear that: "...whoever says 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire."

Is the Psalmist in hell do you think?


One who has not the Spiritual discernment can only look at words and draw simple conclusions, but one who is a true believer and searches the Scripture, will have the teachings of God. In the Believer's Bible Commentary - W. MacDonald - the thought of "fool" is viewed as progressive in Matt. 5. We see in v.22 that to be angry with a brother in Christ without cause can put one in danger of judgment on himself; and "Racca", meaning empty and a word of contempt and insulting is in danger of being called before the religious counsel; further, if one calls his brother "a fool" he is in danger of "hell" because he considers him contrary to God and should be dead. God despises such hatred. One can read the full commentary and compare with all others. What the Psalmist said in Psa. 53 is consistent with this.

- Seriousseeker

Edited by Seriousseeker, 23 December 2010 - 03:52 PM.


#9
shiloh357

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The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. Psalms 53:1


Interesting that you quote a Psalmist who calls unbelievers fools, when Matthew (5:22) makes it clear that: "...whoever says 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire."

Is the Psalmist in hell do you think?



Just for the record, and despite what the Psalmist has written, I am not corrupt, and I have not done abominable iniquity. I am surprised that you are prepared to imply that perhaps I have. Would you care to elaborate?

First of all, the NT passage you cited is referring to a type of slander. It is not slander for the Psalmist to call an unbeliever a fool.

Secondly, you are corrupt because of what you are not because of what you do. Everything you do in the context of being an unbeliever is inquity before God. You are incabable of pleasing God. Your best deeds on your best day are as filthy menstrual rags before God. You are born a sinner and you have a sentence of death hanging over your head. You are born separated from God and at enmity with Him. You are under the curse of His law and are going headlong down a path to eternal destruction unless you repent and receive Jesus as your Savior.

That is the condition you are in. God loves you enough that He sent His Son to Jesus take upon Himself the penalties of your sin and to provide you with the free gift of eternal life. It is yours for the taking. If you choose continued separation from God, you will face the consequences for that choice.

#10
FresnoJoe

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The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. Psalms 53:1

Interesting that you quote a Psalmist who calls unbelievers fools, when Matthew (5:22) makes it clear that: "...whoever says 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire."

Dear Bob

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:22

You Tread Deep Waters

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:3

And Without The One Who Commands The Waves

And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.
And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?
And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?
Mark 4:39-41

See?

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:36

>>>>>()<<<<<

Is the Psalmist in hell do you think? Just for the record, and despite what the Psalmist has written, I am not corrupt, and I have not done abominable iniquity. I am surprised that you are prepared to imply that perhaps I have. Would you care to elaborate?

Dear One, When God Speaks

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 1:20-21

Even The Fool

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Romans 3:10-13

Will Listen

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

See?

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

>>>>>()<<<<<

Dear Bob

But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God.
And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day.
Luke 5:24-26

Believe

And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
March 16:5-7

And Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing. Zephaniah 3:17

Be Very Blessed

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.
Numbers 6:24-27

Or Not

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

Love, Joe

#11
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One who has not the Spiritual discernment can only look at words and draw simple conclusions, but one who is a true believer and searches the Scripture, will have the teachings of God. In the Believer's Bible Commentary - W. MacDonald - the thought of "fool" is viewed as progressive in Matt. 5. We see in v.22 that to be angry with a brother in Christ without cause can put one in danger of judgment on himself; and "Racca", meaning empty and a word of contempt and insulting is in danger of being called before the religious counsel; further, if one calls his brother "a fool" he is in danger of "hell" because he considers him contrary to God and should be dead. God despises such hatred. One can read the full commentary and compare with all others. What the Psalmist said in Psa. 53 is consistent with this.

- Seriousseeker

You say that I "can only look at words and draw simple conclusions", and perhaps you are right (or perhaps not), but I must admit that I am having difficulty understanding your claim that "the thought of 'fool' is viewed as progressive." What does that mean exactly?

#12
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Secondly, you are corrupt because of what you are not because of what you do. Everything you do in the context of being an unbeliever is inquity before God. You are incabable of pleasing God. Your best deeds on your best day are as filthy menstrual rags before God. You are born a sinner and you have a sentence of death hanging over your head. You are born separated from God and at enmity with Him. You are under the curse of His law and are going headlong down a path to eternal destruction unless you repent and receive Jesus as your Savior.

I have always enjoyed the hurly-burly of vigorous debate, but rarely have I encountered such vituperation in a single post. You seem to be lacking some of the "Christian love and tolerance" possessed by other members of this forum.

And what about the other members - do you agree with shiloh357 that I am,

* corrupt

* every thing I do is iniquity

* my best deeds on my best day are as filthy as menstrual rags

[That last insult is actually quite brilliant - like a dead fish in the moonlight, it both shines and stinks. I shall be quoting it on other forums for years to come.]

But seriously, am I expected to put up with responses like this on a regular basis? I can handle it, don't worry about that - but I am wondering if such zealotry is normal on this site, or is shiloh357 one of a kind?

#13
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Dear Bob
<snip>
Love, Joe

Thanks for the reply. I wonder if you could put it into your own words for me please. I was expecting something more than cut and paste.

#14
shiloh357

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I have always enjoyed the hurly-burly of vigorous debate, but rarely have I encountered such vituperation in a single post. You seem to be lacking some of the "Christian love and tolerance" possessed by other members of this forum.

It is an honeset assessment of your spiritual standing before God.

And what about the other members - do you agree with shiloh357 that I am,


* corrupt
* every thing I do is iniquity
* my best deeds on my best day are as filthy as menstrual rags

[That last insult is actually quite brilliant - like a dead fish in the moonlight, it both shines and stinks. I shall be quoting it on other forums for years to come.]


That last quote is from the Scriptures itself.

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. (Isa 64:6)

The word used for filthy in Hebrew refers to menstral impurity. Your best deeds no matter how grandiose they appear to you are abbhorent to God and in hebraic thought no filth and defile was more abhorrent than a polluted menstral garment.

It is insulting to human pride because that is what the Bible is. The reason the Bible is reviled more than anyother religious book is because it doesn't tell you how wonderful you are. It tells you that before God you are a sinner who deserves God's utter contempt, but God has instead chosen to be merciful to you. The Bible tells you that God has provided a way of salvation, but it on the basis of anything you do or don't do. You have no goodness before God and stand before His corrupt, perverted and in complete darkness, without hope.

#15
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Shiloh357, I'm sure we could match each other, post for post, until one of us dies, but really, I would prefer that you stop right now. I am not prepared to return your insults and you seem to have nothing but insults to offer, so there's really no point in continuing is there? Thanking you in advance for your kind consideration,


@ Other members of this forum:
Do you agree with shiloh357's description of me or do you think he is being a little unfair? I care not what the answer may be; I'm just trying to figure out how this forum works. Do the majority of the members adhere to the idea that we should do unto others as we would have them do unto ourselves, or is that principle left at the door when entering this forum? I look forward to your replies.

Edited by Bob Down, 25 December 2010 - 11:21 PM.


#16
FresnoJoe

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Sincerity Check

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned,

saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

And the book is delivered to him that is not learned,

saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith,

I am not learned.
Isaiah 29:11-12

Bob And Weave As One May, The True Will Always Tell

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

>>>>>()<<<<<


The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. Psalms 53:1

Interesting that you quote a Psalmist who calls unbelievers fools, when Matthew (5:22) makes it clear that: "...whoever says 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire."

Dear Bob

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:22

You Tread Deep Waters

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:3

And Without The One Who Commands The Waves

And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.
And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?
And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?
Mark 4:39-41

See?

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:36

>>>>>()<<<<<

Is the Psalmist in hell do you think? Just for the record, and despite what the Psalmist has written, I am not corrupt, and I have not done abominable iniquity. I am surprised that you are prepared to imply that perhaps I have. Would you care to elaborate?

Dear One, When God Speaks

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 1:20-21

Even The Fool

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Romans 3:10-13

Will Listen

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

See?

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

>>>>>()<<<<<

Dear Bob

But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God.
And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day.
Luke 5:24-26

Believe

And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
March 16:5-7

And Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing. Zephaniah 3:17

Be Very Blessed

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.
Numbers 6:24-27

Or Not

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

Love, Joe

Thanks for the reply. I wonder if you could put it into your own words for me please. I was expecting something more than cut and paste.

Be Brave Dear Bob, Ask God In Jesus' Name

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
John 14:12-14

And Expect His Answer

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13

>>>>>()<<<<<

Eat

My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth. He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber. Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep
. Psalm 121:2-4

Kosher

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.
Jeremiah 15:16

Or <Snip> ~

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

>>>>>()<<<<<

Believe

But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Luke 11:28

And Be Blessed Beloved

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Matthew 5:6

Love, Joe


#17
FresnoJoe

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.... I'm sure we could match each other, post for post, until one of us dies, but really, I would prefer that you stop right now. I am not prepared to return your insults and you seem to have nothing but insults to offer, so there's really no point in continuing is there? Thanking you in advance for your kind consideration....

Dear Bob There Are Many Sites Where You Can (And Do?) Prowl Where The Words Of God Are Mocked And/Or Misquoted You See

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20

But Because You Deserve The Very Best, Many Bible Believers At Worthy Share Their Treasured Biblical Truth Uncut

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Revelation 22:16-17

And Dear Bob The Thing About The Truth You Will See

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Isaiah 64:6

Is You Will Either Hear It Now

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11

Or You Will Hear It

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 5:28-29

Later

I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 12:46-48

You See

>>>>>()<<<<<

Believe

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

And Be Blessed Beloved

But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. Luke 11:28

Love, Joe

#18
shiloh357

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Shiloh357, I'm sure we could match each other, post for post, until one of us dies, but really, I would prefer that you stop right now. I am not prepared to return your insults and you seem to have nothing but insults to offer, so there's really no point in continuing is there? Thanking you in advance for your kind consideration,


I have not insulted you. I have told you what the Bible say about you which is what it says about me. The Bible strikes at the heart of human pride. The Bible tends to wound human pride. The Bible tells you that you are a sinner and like a good mirror it shows how you cannot measure up to God's righteous standard and why you need a Savior. All of us stand before God as miserable, abhorrent wretches hopless and helpless, perverted and vile with nothing good in us to offer Him. That is how we, on our own stand before God. We deserve to be destroyed and God would have been within His rights to do so, but He chose to have mercy on us and provide us with a way out.

I have simply revealed your spiritual condition to you, how you stand before God. You may be a "good person" in that you pay your taxes, do charity, are faithful to your spouse and love your kids. However, that does not change how you stand before God. You are born a sinner and are born in iniquity before God. All men are born that way. There is a sentence of death that hangs over the collective head of humanity and the only remedy for a corrupt spiritual state is Jesus Christ.

I'm just trying to figure out how this forum works.

You going to find that we do not allow God's words to be mocked and that the majority here hold up for Scripture.

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All of us stand before God as miserable, abhorrent wretches hopless and helpless, perverted and vile with nothing good in us to offer Him.

Just to be clear, you are saying that everybody on this forum is miserable, abhorrent, wretched, hopeless, helpless, perverted and vile? I wonder if everybody agrees? I do not, I think that most people are really quite nice.



You going to find that we do not allow God's words to be mocked ...

I hope you are not implying that I have done that



Now, where is that ignore button...

Edited by Bob Down, 26 December 2010 - 07:51 AM.


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shiloh357

shiloh357

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shiloh357, on 26 December 2010 - 01:32 AM, said:

All of us stand before God as miserable, abhorrent wretches hopless and helpless, perverted and vile with nothing good in us to offer Him.


Just to be clear, you are saying that everybody on this forum is miserable, abhorrent, wretched, hopeless, helpless, perverted and vile?


Without Christ, yes. Apart from Christ there is nothing good about any of us. It is only in Christ that we find redemption from sin and cleansing from what we were.

You are like an overweight patient who is more offended that the doctor told him he needs to lose weight than he is afraid of what his weight is doing to his health and well-being. You are more offended that someone had the temerity to confront you about your sin than you are about the fact that your sin is costing you your eternal future.


I wonder if everybody agrees? I do not, I think that most people are really quite nice.

What you fail to understand because you are too busy being offended to actually read, is that I am not speaking of personalities, but of the spritiual condition of people without God. The nicest person in the world, without Christ is utterly lost, hopeless and perverted before God. It doesn't matter how "good" they are down here that matters so much. It is about receiving His righteousness and having that fulfilled within in us in the person of the Holy Spirit. The only good in any of us is that which is put there by God. You won't find any Christian on this board that will claim that they have anything good in them apart from what the Lord has put there.

shiloh357, on 26 December 2010 - 01:32 AM, said:

You going to find that we do not allow God's words to be mocked ...

I hope you are not implying that I have done that

Nope, but we get many unbelievers who start off good enough, but then attempt to make believers look like stooges and attempt to trivialize our faith to the point that believing in God is akin to believing in pink unicorns and such.

Now, where is that ignore button...

It your think-skinned responses that are some of the best examples of why the Bible can be shown to be of divine origin.




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