Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Is it ever OK to lie?

122 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

What if for instance you are an innocent person but telling the truth would get you killed? What if you are hiding inocent people from criminals and you are doing so by lying? What if you are in a war, isn't all war deception in it self(I read this somwhete), hoe can you not lie(maybe if you refuse to fight).

So my question is: When is it ok to lie?

Thanks

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The Bible has three accounts of people lying in order to save the lives of other people.

Something to consider the 9th commandment is: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor."

That isn't saying, "Don't lie," as a blanket statement. It is specific to that which causes harm.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I think nebula is right.

And what about surprise birthdays? Sometimes lying can be good.

And if you think you did it and it was wrong, just pray and you will be forgiven.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

What if for instance you are an innocent person but telling the truth would get you killed? What if you are hiding inocent people from criminals and you are doing so by lying? What if you are in a war, isn't all war deception in it self(I read this somwhete), hoe can you not lie(maybe if you refuse to fight).

So my question is: When is it ok to lie?

Thanks

Not ever question has to be answered. Plus some could be answered with a simple Yes or No. There by avoiding telling someone a lie or the truth that could hurt them.

Plus if you did lie to save a persons life, My Lord Jesus, who has forgiven ALL of my Sins, is big enough to see through the narrow minded thoughts of those who dare tell you that you would go to hell for doing so.

ICL~~~Dennis

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

What if for instance you are an innocent person but telling the truth would get you killed? What if you are hiding innocent people from criminals and you are doing so by lying? What if you are in a war, isn't all war deception in itself (I read this somewhere), how can you not lie (maybe if you refuse to fight).

So my question is: When is it OK to lie....

Not every question has to be answered. Plus some could be answered with a simple Yes or No. There by avoiding telling someone a lie or the truth that could hurt them.

Plus if you did lie to save a persons life, My Lord Jesus, who has forgiven ALL of my Sins, is big enough to see through the narrow minded thoughts of those who dare tell you that you would go to hell for doing so.

ICL~~~Dennis

:thumbsup:

Warrior Talk

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

Knowing The Battle Belongs To The LORD

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Romans 14:11-12

~

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Ephesians 5:19

Love, Joe

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Psalms 116:11 ". . All men are liars."

Praise God that He sees us in Jesus.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

What if for instance you are an innocent person but telling the truth would get you killed? What if you are hiding inocent people from criminals and you are doing so by lying? What if you are in a war, isn't all war deception in it self(I read this somwhete), hoe can you not lie(maybe if you refuse to fight).

So my question is: When is it ok to lie?

Thanks

While as a general rule lying is wrong we do find ourselves in situations where it must be done ..

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

What if for instance you are an innocent person but telling the truth would get you killed? What if you are hiding inocent people from criminals and you are doing so by lying? What if you are in a war, isn't all war deception in it self(I read this somwhete), hoe can you not lie(maybe if you refuse to fight).

So my question is: When is it ok to lie?

Thanks

I believe all lies are straight from the pit of hell Ervin and NO liars will enter the kingdom of GOD; " But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" Rev21:8

" It is NEVER OK to lie " Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John8:44

No offense intended but you are not only twisting scriptures to fit your own beliefs but you are ignoring a few important facts .. A. we live in a very imperfect world with imperfect people and far from perfect circumstances ,, B. God is not evil .. he is not one of us .. We as humans would condemn someone because they were compelled to transgress ,, but would God ? God is Just correct ? God is love correct ? Is God this tyranical monster just waiting to damn us on a technicality ? Really ? Listen i have doubts about his existence but if that is the God that exists ..then i have no hope and neither do any of us ..And how on earth could you begin to love and serve a God like that ? Now as to lying when it comes down to life and death situations you are not really left with much of a choice .. Yes you could choose to die but in most cases dying is not the best choice now is it ?
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

What if for instance you are an innocent person but telling the truth would get you killed? What if you are hiding inocent people from criminals and you are doing so by lying? What if you are in a war, isn't all war deception in it self(I read this somwhete), hoe can you not lie(maybe if you refuse to fight).

So my question is: When is it ok to lie?

Thanks

I believe all lies are straight from the pit of hell Ervin and NO liars will enter the kingdom of GOD; " But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" Rev21:8

" It is NEVER OK to lie " Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John8:44

It is according to what nebula says.

All moral laws are trumped by the moral law to preserve innocent life.

That means you will be guilty of innocent blood if you do not lie when necessary to preserve their life.

And we find examples of that in Scripture, such as Rahab, the harlot, who is commended in the NT for doing so.

Is it a SIN to lie ? a simple yes or no will suffice. Is there always a penalty for sin ? Was Rahab a harlot and not one of GODs people ? and did she find favour with GOD by her sin (lie) or by her faith ? Was her sin one of hiding the spys ? or was it by protecting GODs people ?

I believe that Christ JESUS would NEVER have us to lie or that would make Him a hypocrite and deny Himself....

Never

These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. Proverbs 6:16-19

Always

Remembering mine affliction and my misery, the wormwood and the gall.

My soul hath them still in remembrance, and is humbled in me.

This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope.

It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him. Lamentations 3:19-24

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Does it matter if you only deceive using your behavior?

1Sa 21:13 And he changed his behaviour before them, and feigned himself mad in their hands, and scrabbled on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard.

Was this sin? Not by Gods standard.

1Ki 15:5 Because David did [that which was] right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any [thing] that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite

The only thing David did that God rebuked him for was Uriah.

Lying as in bearing false witness for personal gain is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. All liars shall have their part in the lake of fire. Although pretending to be something that you are not, such as David did, is not considered under the same definition.

Blessed be the name of our Lord, may we not be found false witness of him.

Gary

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I actually says in Revelation 22:15 "...and whoever loves and practices a lie."

This is far different then saving someones life by deceiving the one who wishes to do harm to them.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

What if for instance you are an innocent person but telling the truth would get you killed? What if you are hiding inocent people from criminals and you are doing so by lying? What if you are in a war, isn't all war deception in it self(I read this somwhete), hoe can you not lie(maybe if you refuse to fight).

So my question is: When is it ok to lie?

Thanks

Is lying ever not a sin? That's the real question isn't it?

Nope. Always a sin. But we do not live in heaven do we?

Will we at times be prompted to withhold truth? <--- Another way of saying a lie.

If you read the books of Hebrews and James and the Epistles of John you will have more questions about sin (lying is mentioned among them) than you will have answers.

"These things are written that you sin not"

"If anyone willfully sins after he has known the truth (about salvation in Christ) no sacrifice for sins is left."

"There is a sin that is unto death, I do not suggest you pray about it. There is a sin not to death."

HUH?

Read Romans 3-8 (and pay close attention to chapter 7). And remember God orchestrates all things (the good and the evil) to achieve his purposes.

Is lying the unpardonable sin? No. Remember that when you come across texts like all liars will be assigned a place in the lake of fire... (in the over all context of the entire Bible we understand that means those who are not redeemed from death and cleansed by the blood of Christ) so the unsaved liars will be assigned a place in the lake of fire...

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

TheTruthLivesForever - what do you do with Jehu using deception to gather and then kill the prophets of Baal? God later rewarded him for it.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If you want to JUSTIFY man and yourself then you go right ahead. The question was " When is it ok to lie " my answer was NEVER and i backed it up with Scripture. If it is OK for you to lie then go right ahead and JUSTIFY it all you like......

Do you realise you are talking to a seeker? noidea.gif

Did you think using mockery / sarcasm was going to edify?

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

What if for instance you are an innocent person but telling the truth would get you killed? What if you are hiding inocent people from criminals and you are doing so by lying? What if you are in a war, isn't all war deception in it self(I read this somwhete), hoe can you not lie(maybe if you refuse to fight).

So my question is: When is it ok to lie?

Thanks

I believe all lies are straight from the pit of hell Ervin and NO liars will enter the kingdom of GOD; " But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" Rev21:8

" It is NEVER OK to lie " Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John8:44

I used to believe as you do, so I don't say anything bad about your comment. However I no longer believe this way, and here is why.

#1. Rahab's lie protected the lives of 2 Israelites, and God actually rewarded her for it. #2. Moses's mother technically lied by hiding him from the authorities, which saved his life.

#3. Abraham's lie protected his life. #4. Even the apostles technically lied when they went on the run instead of turning themselves in to the authorities.

There are many times in scripture where a lie is NOT actually condemned, and in fact some of the greatest miracles or stories in scripture involved lies that were almost necesarry.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

TheTruthLivesForever - what do you do with Jehu using deception to gather and then kill the prophets of Baal? God later rewarded him for it.

Worse when God Himself seeks a deceiving and blesses that spirit to prosper! 1 Kings 22:19-23

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

This has nothing to do with the Old Covenant and you cannot dismiss the entire old testament as if none of it's passages accurately describe God for us in these days. The fact that Jesus permanently fulfils the sacrifice and steps in as our High Priest in no way changes the nature of God. He is one and the same... so no you cannot dismiss the entire old testament the way you are to prove your point.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If you want to JUSTIFY man and yourself then you go right ahead. The question was " When is it ok to lie " my answer was NEVER and i backed it up with Scripture. If it is OK for you to lie then go right ahead and JUSTIFY it all you like......

Do you realise you are talking to a seeker? noidea.gif

Did you think using mockery / sarcasm was going to edify?

If he is an unbeliever then why is he here ?

If he listens to the TRUTH and hears that it is NOT ok to lie then it might make him free.

Seekers come here all the time and are absolutely welcome. And no, we aren't encouraging people to lie as a habit, but there were rare occasions in the bible where a lie / deception was part of God's plan or was blessed by God.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

.... If he is an unbeliever then why is he here....

:thumbsup:

Because He Is Loved

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

And Loved

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Loved

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

This has nothing to do with the Old Covenant and you cannot dismiss the entire old testament as if none of it's passages accurately describe God for us in these days. The fact that Jesus permanently fulfils the sacrifice and steps in as our High Priest in no way changes the nature of God. He is one and the same... so no you cannot dismiss the entire old testament the way you are to prove your point.

You did not answer my questions to you Candice as per usual........

Well I don't think you have answered mine either, in that you haven't explained why you reject the God of the Old Testament by calling it all "old covenant".

I haven't answered your question because it really misrepresents my position. I am not suggesting we lie all we like, I'm just saying there are rare cases in which it is necessary and has been blessed by the Lord.

If you want to JUSTIFY man and yourself then you go right ahead. The question was " When is it ok to lie " my answer was NEVER and i backed it up with Scripture. If it is OK for you to lie then go right ahead and JUSTIFY it all you like......

Do you realise you are talking to a seeker? noidea.gif

Did you think using mockery / sarcasm was going to edify?

If he is an unbeliever then why is he here ?

If he listens to the TRUTH and hears that it is NOT ok to lie then it might make him free.

Seekers come here all the time and are absolutely welcome. And no, we aren't encouraging people to lie as a habit, but there were rare occasions in the bible where a lie / deception was part of God's plan or was blessed by God.

If he is a "seeker" are you not guilty of creating a stumblingblock to Him by saying it is ok to lie and use a couple of instances where GOD used subtilty and a lying spirit to destroy his enemies an do His Will ?

No I don't think I have put a stumbling block in front of him :). If a young child was hidden in my house, and a man knocked on my door wanting to know the whereabouts of the child to kill him, I'd lie through my teeth 6 days a week and twice on Sunday.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

TheTruthLivesForever - what do you do with Jehu using deception to gather and then kill the prophets of Baal? God later rewarded him for it.

Worse when God Himself seeks a deceiving and blesses that spirit to prosper! 1 Kings 22:19-23

Because GOD put a lying spirit in mouths of Ahabs prophets does that make GOD unholy or unjust ? Was not Ahab wicked and Jezebels husband ? Were Ahabs prophets false prophets and GODs enemy ? Is GOD a liar by doing what HE did ?

Your questions indicate what is my heart in this matter:

In all that we know and are-> God 'IS' more and in Him is the eternities. We simply do not have the horse power to understand Him nor do we have the right to question (as judgment of Him) due to the fact we are His into His pleasure He has created us. The greatest position we have before Him is the worship of ALL that we do know about Him and the resolve that every little detail both in the infinite regress and the infinite yet to be revealed is aligned to that greatness we do not fully comprehend. He 'IS' without sin and in His Holiness will not even look upon it ... this 'IS' Who our Father 'IS' and many times I have come to places I do not understand yet I trust-> for there 'IS' simply no others but Him whereby we exist. Love, Steven

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

It was nothing for GOD to destroy His enemies and even those who disobeyed his commandments were destroyed( adulterers/esses(Deut22:22etc), drunkards, sodomites, whole pagan tribes etc..

This is incorrect according to Scripture

Ezek 33:11

11 Say to them: 'As I live,' says the Lord God, 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked

turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'

NKJV

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Back in WWII there was a Christian fishing family in Holland. They used their fishing boats to smuggle Jews out of Nazi occupied Holland. As the story goes, they had some Jews hidden in the bottom of their boats and were covered with tarps, nets and other equipment. The men were preparing the boats for departure. Two Nazi soldiers approached the men as their boats were preparing to leave the pier and they asked the family if they were alone in the boats. They answered that they were alone in the boats. At first, the Nazis were suspicious, but the men in the boats maintained their composure and the Nazi soldiers told them to carry on.

The men clearly lied to the Nazi soldiers. Should they have betrayed the trust of the Jews they were hiding? Should they have broken their promise to Jews and gave them up to be killed by the Nazis???

The Bible does not say it is wrong "lie" per se. Lying is wrong in certain circumstances when you are attempting to bring harm to another person, but the explicit command of God is not to bear false testimony against another person. You are not falsely accuse an innocent person, nor are you to offer testimony that falsely exonerates a person who is guilty of wrongdoing.

In II Kings 6 God caused the entire Syrian Army to be blinded. The King of Syria was looking for Elisha, because Elisha was telling the king of Israel the battle plans of the Syrians by means of revelation from God. But the king of Syria had never met Elisha or heard his voice. Elisha approached the King of Syria and asked him who he was looking for. The Syrian king said that they were looking for Elisha. Elisha told the king that he would lead him to Elisha. Instead Elisha led the Syrian Army into Israel's camp and then prayed for the blindness to be removd. God removed the blindness he put on the Syrians and the Syrians found themselves surrounded.

Elisha lied and yet God used that act of deception to protect Israel.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

No I don't think I have put a stumbling block in front of him :). If a young child was hidden in my house, and a man knocked on my door wanting to know the whereabouts of the child to kill him, I'd lie through my teeth 6 days a week and twice on Sunday.

I know a Father Who went directly to the room in which He was and brought Him out to us so that we could torture Him to death... if your heart was in the Father's place would we all have died in order to save the Child? I only wrote this for you to examine deeper into the righteousness issue Andy... where all fiber of your being is to protect that child (you come by this naturally as a woman) yet we are called to give all to God as God has given ALL to us in His Son... This is the same issue Shiloh and I have been discussing in using carnal weapons to protect loved ones from harm... I think it all rest in where we place our living of importance- whether here and now or then and there the eternal abode... Love, Steven
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

No I don't think I have put a stumbling block in front of him :). If a young child was hidden in my house, and a man knocked on my door wanting to know the whereabouts of the child to kill him, I'd lie through my teeth 6 days a week and twice on Sunday.

I know a Father Who went directly to the room in which He was and brought Him out to us so that we could torture Him to death... if your heart was in the Father's place would we all have died in order to save the Child? I only wrote this for you to examine deeper into the righteousness issue Andy... where all fiber of your being is to protect that child (you come by this naturally as a woman) yet we are called to give all to God as God has given ALL to us in His Son... This is the same issue Shiloh and I have been discussing in using carnal weapons to protect loved ones from harm... I think it all rest in where we place our living of importance- whether here and now or then and there the eternal abode... Love, Steven

God isn't asking us to be Jesus. That sacrifice has been done once and for all.

There really needs to be a demarcation between Jesus coming to give His life as a sacrifice, and self protection, knowing that Jesus sacrifice doesn't change the standard for self protection (or lying). There is NO WAY I am letting a man kill my child and walk all over us like that, when I could protect them by deception.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0