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AlexanderJ

Magic

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  1. 1. Is Magic evil?

    • Yes
      14
    • No
      0
    • It can be either good or evil.
      1
    • None of the above.
      0

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62 posts in this topic

C S Lewis' use of the term 'magic' to refer to the actions of Aslan and so forth has always set my teeth on edge, btw.

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Additionally, it seems to me that the belief of most of the Christians with whom I have been discussing this topic is that the term "good magic" is antithetical - a self-contradictory statement. In other words, if magic were good, it would not be called magic at all, but something else, since "magic" by nature cannot be or perform good but only evil. Magic is not Neutral, it cannot be good, it cannot produce good, and those who associate with it in any form whatsoever are unequivocally condemned by God (which would be a perfectly just condemnation, I might add, if it be that magic is intrinsically evil).

I am not at all certain whether this belief is correct or not yet, as I said before, I shall need to consider and study this matter more exhaustively and thoughtfully.

What is there to consider? The Lord our God calls out to thee for a prayer, holding you in His righteousness and care, preparing for you a place in the Heavens, yet there is still something missing? What could that possibly be? Many are called but few are chosen, and for this reason is among them ! How can the Lord ensure a task will be committed in His name and in His purity if you cannot even commit in His ways, loving Him with all your heart, mind and soul. If you develop or undergo and exploration if you will (delving into sorcery and the likes) then you rise against Him and His presence will leave you, for no one can serve two masters. This is a conscious choice you will have to commit, rely upon the works of man and the schemes of the Devil or put forth your love, trust and favor into God. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.

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Did I say that there is something missing? How does my considering whether or not magic is intrinsically evil challenge the sufficiency of Christ and the Godhead - Does not the Apostle Paul say "Prove all things..."?

Edited by AlexanderJ
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Did I say that there is something missing? How does my considering whether or not magic is intrinsically evil challenge the sufficiency of Christ and the Godhead - Does not the Apostle Paul say "Prove all things..."?

Well Alex, there has to be; if your eyes are casted upon elsewhere, what else do you call it? We are to rely upon the LORD for the things which man cannot do! Not something else, or anything else as far as that goes.

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Did I say that there is something missing? How does my considering whether or not magic is intrinsically evil challenge the sufficiency of Christ and the Godhead - Does not the Apostle Paul say "Prove all things..."?

Well Alex, there has to be; if your eyes are casted upon elsewhere, what else do you call it? We are to rely upon the LORD for the things which man cannot do! Not something else, or anything else as far as that goes.

Where have I implied that we must rely on something other than the Lord? If I have given that impression somewhere in my discussion, please show me where so that I may correct it.

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C S Lewis' use of the term 'magic' to refer to the actions of Aslan and so forth has always set my teeth on edge, btw.

Interesting usage of the phrase 'set my teeth on edge'. As I have always understood it to mean that the one whose teeth were set on edge meant their was no 'bite' to them as their teeth were blunt and not sharp. Three places it speaks of this in scripture is in a proverbial saying that when I studied helped me to conclude that the actions of the parents took away the ability for the children to be effective against their enemies. When speaking about our covenant relationship with God where we all are given the Spirit and taught of God himself rather than relying upon the traditional teachings of men passed down through generations.

As for magic, I am one who takes a simple stance. It is the evil use of certain knowledge for the purpose of seeking to be as God without God. Why would we need magic if we simply have the Spirit of God who gives gifts to whom he will to preform amazing things like raising the dead back to life? Shall the magicians do likewise with their enchantments? Magic is evil.

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Alex, when you read this, you might think I'm nitpicking. I'm not. I think you mean "magick". The occultists spell their 'craft' with a 'k' at the end. Magic (most properly) is the slight of hand that we see stage magicians do to awe audiences, and there isn't anything wrong with that.

Magick is occultism and that is what these movies you speak of are promoting. By their intentionally leaving the 'k' off the end of magick, those who are into such evil slip it past the unsuspecting. Magick is most definitely evil, doesn't glorify God and should be avoided by Believers.

The Encyclopaedia Britannica says this about "magic":

magic, a concept used to describe a mode of rationality or way of thinking that looks to invisible forces to influence events, effect change in material conditions, or present the illusion of change. Within the Western tradition, this way of thinking is distinct from religious or scientific modes; however, such distinctions and even the definition of magic are subject to wide debate....

The magic to which I refer is "a concept used to describe a mode of rationality or way of thinking that looks to invisible forces to influence events, effect change in material conditions". This "magic" is found in the Harry Potter books and films, several of C.S. Lewis' books including the Chronicles of Narnia (several have been made into movies) and many other books and films. Are these representations of "magic" evil?

Is "magic" evil? - is the "concept of a mode of rationality or way of thinking that looks to invisible forces to influence events, effect change in material conditions" intrinsically evil?

The Oxford Dictionary of English defines "magic" as:

magic

noun

  • the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

According to this definition, the Christian God often works using "magic", as do many characters in the Bible and other Christian writings.

This is the first I spotted that gave that impression. I apologize if I have offended you or implied something that was not meant, but relying on anything that is besides God is in vain because our Hope and Help is in Him, and is only to be in Him.

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The supernatural power that a believer may use must (and can only) come from God. I would never deny this.

What I was attempting to propose is that this supernatural power which comes directly from God could be called "magic", because supernatural power falls within the definition of magic. If this could be the case, then Authors like C.S. Lewis were not committing blasphemy by associating God with magic.

Edited by AlexanderJ
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I suppose that this would be the crux of my argument/proposition:

I'm trying to say that "power" (magic, in this case) in and of itself is not good or evil. It is like a gun or a knife; it is neutral. What determines whether the power is good or evil is first, where it has its source, and second, what it is used for. I understand "magic" as being synonomous with supernatural power. I don't think that it is either intrinsically good or bad; what makes it good or bad is where it has its source and what it is used for.

Thing is, the maker of the gun is a company, neither good nor evil. The source of magick is the enemy.

Magick implies that one can channel it at will. God decides when to do miracles. Not man. Therefor the miracles are not magick. What you call "good magick" has its source in something not of God. The bible warns us against mixing up in junk like this. You really need to turn away from it.

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I suppose that this would be the crux of my argument/proposition:

I'm trying to say that "power" (magic, in this case) in and of itself is not good or evil. It is like a gun or a knife; it is neutral. What determines whether the power is good or evil is first, where it has its source, and second, what it is used for. I understand "magic" as being synonomous with supernatural power. I don't think that it is either intrinsically good or bad; what makes it good or bad is where it has its source and what it is used for.

And that (the bolded part) is the clincher. The power cannot be neutral if the source is Satan, can it?

A "white" Wiccan, although using magic for "good" purposes, is still using Satan's tool.

As for what it is used for, can someone use the Lord's power for evil?

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The supernatural power that a believer may use must (and can only) come from God. I would never deny this.

What I was attempting to propose is that this supernatural power which comes directly from God could be called "magic", because supernatural power falls within the definition of magic. If this could be the case, then Authors like C.S. Lewis were not committing blasphemy by associating God with magic.

Again, the problem with your definition refering to the Lord's power is the word "uses". Can one "use" God's power the way magic is used?

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The answer is no on cannot "use" God's power the way magic is used. Closed for review.

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