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The story of my death.


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14 replies to this topic

#1
TsukinoRei

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A little over a decade ago I was unprepared when I encountered a number of individuals in power over me who were against inter-racial marriage but did not concider this to be racist. It rises to mind from time to time and I concider what I would say to these people now. In particular over the past couple of years there has been a rise in discussion about inter-racial and inter-cultural relationships in the UK as the demographic of the country is shifting drastically there is a growing culture clash between people who wish to remain ethnically separate, for the children to remain separate and encourage those around them to do the same and people who have embraced mixed heritage and the people born of that mixed heritage. Increasingly in the media and in the coffee shops people claim that mixing the races is damaging to diversity and thus claim that beng against thte mixing of the races is the opposite of racism. It's a topsy turvy reasoning and throws me back to that day when my Missions Professor told me that he was personally against inter-racial marriage for his children and wouldn't feel comfortable performing one because he believed that the offspring would suffer racism and confusion. When I asked him what that meant for me who was already mixed he shrugged and said, 'well that's the problem, isn't it.' What prompted the discussion was that I had learned that a mixed couple had been counselled by another staff member that they should not marry, and so they had left the school. Another statement I remember, though I don't recall who made it, was that the Bible was ambiguous on the topic and that it was dangerous to criticise pastors and missionaries who held this view point because they were ordained by God. Also, that preaching against it could cause a divide in the church and so would cause more harm than good. To compound it I then also encountered a missionary couple who were against inter-racial marriage. A bit awkward as I was engaged to their son. Strike awkward, try devastating when he broke off contact with me and I found out later he'd been pressured to by his family because of race. Would have been better if he hadn't liked my sense of humour or thought I had crooked eyes.

In another experience some girls at the college were colouring their hair and it looked like fun, so I joined in. I was delighted to find that with just some hair bleach my hair goes dark red, then redish blond. I wear these highlights even now. It was a colour not unlike what was popular among the other girls that year. Imagine my surprise when I was singled out, called to the Dean of Students office, and told that my hair was inappropriate and had to be changed back to a darker colour. When I asked why he said it was because it didn't look natural because of my eyebrows. I pressed, because other girls had darker eyebrows, and I offered to lighten mine if that was the only issue. Then he admitted that it was 'inappropriate to my ethnicity'. I argued but eventually obeyed. I cut my hair short as there wasn't enough dye in the kit and it was difficult to get coverage for my thick hair. When he sees the hair cut he tells me that's extreme too and says he's dissapointed in me. At which point I give him an earful and tell him he has no right to be dissapointed in me.

First, isn't the Church supposed to stand apart from the world? So surely basing who we marry on the world giving us a hard time over it is the opposite of taking a stand? Second, shouldn't the truth be preached no matter who it offends, and what about the people who are hurt by NOT speaking the truth? Finally, how can anyone look at a person of mixed heritage, think that they are less beneficial to or even damaging to society, pity them for how confused their existence must be, think that they have no true place in the world, and then think they're not a racist? How is it that it's generally agreed in society that attributing negative qualities of a person because they are black, or white, or asian, is immoral. These people who are against inter-racial marriage basically think that I and people like me should not exist solely because of my ethnicity. And I'm supposed to believe that this isn't racist?

I'm confounded. I was hoping someone could explain to me what makes this either not racism, or a lesser kind of racism.

I've stuck my oar out, done a bit of research from time to time, to see what attitudes prevail now that time has passed. What I find is that within the past 5 years, and as recently as within the last year, there have been churches banning mixed couples from participating in ministry. There have been pastors refusing to marry people of mixed race, denomination centres refusing to comment. One denomination headquarters did state that it's up to the pastor who they choose to marry and who they choose not to marry. This was the wesleyan church, mind you. How much do you want to bet that headquarters would scream bloody marry if a pastor in their ranks chose to marry a homosexual couple? His choice is it? Yeah right. Seems like people still think that it isn't necessary to take a stand.

Help me understand why. Explain to me why it's necessary to take a stand against homosexual marriage, and that's protecting the sanctity of marriage, but it's not necessary to take a stand against racism when it attacks inter-racial marriage? Does being against inter-racial marriage not damage families? Isn't it the job of a pastor to challenge wrong thinking? Alot of breath is certainly expended on some things that are concidered wrong, like paganism, or islam, or homosexuality. But racism isn't as bad as all that for some reason? Interpret Paul this way, meditate on this, meditate on that, don't watch this program or listen to that music, don't be gay, protect your minds, don't swear, think on what is pure, but go ahead and think racially mixed people shouldn't exist and think what you like about mixing the races. Help me understand why that's ok to a group of people who are so ready to draw so many other lines?

Eventually I was kicked out of Bible College, with an argumentative spirit being sited as the reason, with no disciplinary process and no records that they were willing to show me. Most of my professors thought that it was strange, that the reasons were trumped up and the Deans just didn't know how to handle me. Throughout my time there they made me a cross out of skin and lies, and eventually they nailed me to it. I died that day. I was handed a letter stating that I would never have the necessary graces for ministry, by the people ordained to make that choice and trusted by all the people in every church I'd ever been involved in. So I dusted off my feet and walked away. Not from God, but from his so-called people.

Also, the funny thing about death is that afterwards there's new life. We spend awhile in the grave, mourning the ideals or dreams that will never be resurrected, then we come out a new person. A freer, stronger, more wise, more compassionate person, with less fear.

Edited by BatSheep, 03 January 2013 - 11:51 PM.


#2
ladypeartree

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I think you need to let go the bitterness I sense in your post as well as the hurt and move on. I have NO idea what bible college you attended but it sounds as if you are better off away from them if what you are saying is right ( no I dont doubt you at all but maybe there are other facets of your personality that didnt work in that situation as well ) THERE IS NO SUCH PERSON AS A PURE ONE RACIAL BLOOD ALIVE IN THE WORLD "Races" /tribes/nations/people have been intermixed since the start of time or we would all be suffering from inbreeding. Almost ever country in the world has been conquered by another during their long history and the races have intermixed.....YES there is a growing awarness of " intermarriage " but I think you will find it is a fear of inter religeous mixing that prompts it NOT a fear of mixing skin colour,
I am sooo sorry that you have had such a bad experience and it is making you feel bad/ hurting your feelings. Please forgive the people who feel this way and get on with living your life WITHOUT bitterness. If someone doesnt like you because of the colour of your skin/hair/eyes whatever it is THEIR problem not yours and if your fiance felt so little for you that he was willing to give you up for such a petty reason then he was NOT the man God has in mind for you and didnt really love you.
God made you in His image ..when you love yourself you love God ..when you let others tell you that you are a " second class citizen " then you are telling God that He made a mistake ..He didnt YOU ARE LOVED AND LOVELY . Ignor the ignorant and bless them since they need all the blessings that they can get in their narrow and petty lives :bighug2:

#3
ncn

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All I can say is that I agree 100% with ladypeartree's post.

#4
He giveth more grace

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I am seeing a lot more racially mixed couples in the last 20 years or so, I have been attracted to some African-American women because of their beauty and because that they are true "ladies" (lots of women, few ladies). I see no foul if they are "in love" and are faithful to their marriage. Trouble could arise within both sets of in-law though and the children could suffer from ostracizing from peers.

BTW, I am a son of a white bigot, my father died in 1984, so sorry if this came across as racist, I have overcome so much with the Lord's help.

#5
TsukinoRei

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I think you need to let go the bitterness I sense in your post as well as the hurt and move on. I have NO idea what bible college you attended but it sounds as if you are better off away from them if what you are saying is right ( no I dont doubt you at all but maybe there are other facets of your personality that didnt work in that situation as well ) THERE IS NO SUCH PERSON AS A PURE ONE RACIAL BLOOD ALIVE IN THE WORLD "Races" /tribes/nations/people have been intermixed since the start of time or we would all be suffering from inbreeding. Almost ever country in the world has been conquered by another during their long history and the races have intermixed.....YES there is a growing awarness of " intermarriage " but I think you will find it is a fear of inter religeous mixing that prompts it NOT a fear of mixing skin colour,
I am sooo sorry that you have had such a bad experience and it is making you feel bad/ hurting your feelings. Please forgive the people who feel this way and get on with living your life WITHOUT bitterness. If someone doesnt like you because of the colour of your skin/hair/eyes whatever it is THEIR problem not yours and if your fiance felt so little for you that he was willing to give you up for such a petty reason then he was NOT the man God has in mind for you and didnt really love you.
God made you in His image ..when you love yourself you love God ..when you let others tell you that you are a " second class citizen " then you are telling God that He made a mistake ..He didnt YOU ARE LOVED AND LOVELY . Ignor the ignorant and bless them since they need all the blessings that they can get in their narrow and petty lives :bighug2:


I am certain there are other facets of my personality that didn't work there. I tend to question things rather than take them at face value and this has often been construed as an argumentative spirit. This, and other traits that I've recently learned are common to at least 1 in 100 people, probably confounded them. The fact that they couldn't handle it doesn't really do much good to convince me they were less bigoted or better representatives of Christ. The opposite actually. I'm a thinker, a writer, a musician, and an artist. I'm also on the autistic spectrum. I have to be careful what I talk about and with whom because when I get excited about a subject I tend to know so much and understand it so deeply that I make others feel intellectually inferior. And yet the world says I have a disability. Go figure.

I wish I could agree with you that it was a fear of mixing religion rather than a fear of mixing colour. I was raised by a white family in Christianity from birth. I still encountered people in wider christendom who expected me to be from a muslim country, or thought I was native american, children called me that naughty 'n' word. Funny thing about being mixed race. People aren't really sure what you are, they just know you're not them. It was very common for people to come up to me and before asking me what my name is they asked me what are you? Did they mean are you a Christian? No, because I used to like to play with them. What are you? I'm Canadian? No, I mean what are you? Oh, I'm a Christian. No I mean where are you from? I'm from New Brunswick. That's not what I mean? Oh, *innocent blink* what do you mean then? Where are your parents from? My mother is from England, my father was born in quebec? Most gave up and walked away by this point, or were rescued by friends. But the few who stuck it out and got to the question they wanted to ask, what race are you? My answer was human. I guess you can see where I might have gotten a reputation for being ornery. I just wanted them to ask me what they mean. I remember the first and second time it happened I was genuinely confused and honestly answering what I thought they were asking me. But when it became apparent the whole round-a-bout was about race it made me uncomfortable and a little irritated. I can't count the number of times this happened.

Edited by BatSheep, 04 January 2013 - 09:51 AM.


#6
enoob57

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Sometimes we can be so focused on the issue we miss the big picture...
By these verses along we know racism is anti-Word
Mt 23:25-26
25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish,
but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of
the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
NKJV

1 Sa 16:7
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have
refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the
Lord looks at the heart."
NKJV

So with God it is always a matter of heart... not shape, size, or color in the outward-> but we don't have
that ability do we? So we must examine the activity of people to determine what their heart must be like!
As God 'IS' this way you can feel assured you are not examined by Him by the outward but the heart/=\and
the peril- is we don't know our own hearts but God must reveal them to us so that we, by understanding
of His Word, determine what we can accept about ourselves and/or reject depending upon that self same
Word! For we are a new creation in an old creation of death... His Word and His Spirit are the only factors
we can trust that will bring us into a new mind that is able to think as Our Lord Thinks...
Remember the Godly always, no matter what, seeks to find peace even to the point of sacrifice of self on their
cross in this life- is this not how we first met Our Lord?... Now when you switched from racism to homosexual
marriage as acceptable 'I rebuke this in the name of The Lord Jesus' for there is no sin acceptable unto God
or the practice of that sin... Love, Steven

#7
ncn

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I think you need to let go the bitterness I sense in your post as well as the hurt and move on. I have NO idea what bible college you attended but it sounds as if you are better off away from them if what you are saying is right ( no I dont doubt you at all but maybe there are other facets of your personality that didnt work in that situation as well ) THERE IS NO SUCH PERSON AS A PURE ONE RACIAL BLOOD ALIVE IN THE WORLD "Races" /tribes/nations/people have been intermixed since the start of time or we would all be suffering from inbreeding. Almost ever country in the world has been conquered by another during their long history and the races have intermixed.....YES there is a growing awarness of " intermarriage " but I think you will find it is a fear of inter religeous mixing that prompts it NOT a fear of mixing skin colour,
I am sooo sorry that you have had such a bad experience and it is making you feel bad/ hurting your feelings. Please forgive the people who feel this way and get on with living your life WITHOUT bitterness. If someone doesnt like you because of the colour of your skin/hair/eyes whatever it is THEIR problem not yours and if your fiance felt so little for you that he was willing to give you up for such a petty reason then he was NOT the man God has in mind for you and didnt really love you.
God made you in His image ..when you love yourself you love God ..when you let others tell you that you are a " second class citizen " then you are telling God that He made a mistake ..He didnt YOU ARE LOVED AND LOVELY . Ignor the ignorant and bless them since they need all the blessings that they can get in their narrow and petty lives :bighug2:


Most gave up and walked away by this point, or were rescued by friends. But the few who stuck it out and got to the question they wanted to ask, what race are you? My answer was human. I guess you can see where I might have gotten a reputation for being ornery. I just wanted them to ask me what they mean. I remember the first and second time it happened I was genuinely confused and honestly answering what I thought they were asking me. But when it became apparent the whole round-a-bout was about race it made me uncomfortable and a little irritated. I can't count the number of times this happened.


Look , there was a time when my outward appearance would have frighten you or most people on this forum.
Many know what I'm talking about.

Some in this world do judge people from what they see, race , clothing etc.
I was a smelly tramp , believe me that is worse than being black or from any other ethnic race.

I frightened ignorant people and people frightened me, a vicious circle.
I stayed on the edge of society for many years , too frightened to step back in.

Let me tell you something, God never left my side during that period.
I met many people that looked further than the colour of my outside which was blacker than black.

I even met someone who took the time to look deeper and see the real me.
It was through her that after ten years I am back in society.

I too on the other hand had to let go; you said also that, "People aren't really sure what you are, they just know you're not them ."

Well, God knows who you are and that is all that matters;
in my opinion you are letting yourself dwell too much on the outside.

If you have God in your heart then that is all that matters, walk with your head high , I did even when I was a tramp.

#8
MorningGlory

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I'm sorry you had to go through that mess at your college, Batsheep. It isn't your problem though, it's theirs. Interracial marriage is not forbidden by the Lord, He doesn't care about your race (or races) because He created it (them). He only warns against marriage between believers and nonbelievers. And, as LadyPearTree pointed out, there is practically no one on earth who is racially pure anyway. Put those people behind you and go forward with your life. We don't get to pick our racial makeup; we DO get to decide what kind of life we are going to build on it. :mgbowtie:

#9
ladypeartree

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:grin: Autistic people do not lack INTELLIGENCE they often lack social skills /understanding of subtke naunces ...do I know what I am talking about YES I taught autistic children for many many years and managed to get all but the most socially impared into main school where they were loved/understood and protected by their peers. BUT they too had to learn to accept their peers and to understand that not everything is black and white but many shades inbetween ..oh and I too am on the spectrum or so I have been told by " experts "
I think perhaps you may be a little sensitive about your outward appearance combined with your intelligence and reading harm where no harm was intended However I do understand that it can be soooo annoying and even threatening to be thought of as a " stranger " or different but we are ALL different ..even identical twins :mgcheerful: yet God knows and loves each and every one of us and wants only what is best for us ....sounds to me He was telling you that there is better ahead of you and you just had to let go of the dross to reach for the gold .
may God bless you and help you to find the gold in yourself and in every person you encounter :bighug2:

#10
sheya joie

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I very much enjoyed your answer to 'what race are you?' 'Human.' Yep, that's the answer that question deserves.

#11
nebula

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I wish I could agree with you that it was a fear of mixing religion rather than a fear of mixing colour. I was raised by a white family in Christianity from birth. I still encountered people in wider christendom who expected me to be from a muslim country, or thought I was native american, children called me that naughty 'n' word. Funny thing about being mixed race. People aren't really sure what you are, they just know you're not them. It was very common for people to come up to me and before asking me what my name is they asked me what are you? Did they mean are you a Christian? No, because I used to like to play with them. What are you? I'm Canadian? No, I mean what are you? Oh, I'm a Christian. No I mean where are you from? I'm from New Brunswick. That's not what I mean? Oh, *innocent blink* what do you mean then? Where are your parents from? My mother is from England, my father was born in quebec? Most gave up and walked away by this point, or were rescued by friends. But the few who stuck it out and got to the question they wanted to ask, what race are you? My answer was human. I guess you can see where I might have gotten a reputation for being ornery. I just wanted them to ask me what they mean. I remember the first and second time it happened I was genuinely confused and honestly answering what I thought they were asking me. But when it became apparent the whole round-a-bout was about race it made me uncomfortable and a little irritated. I can't count the number of times this happened.


I believe the question ought to be, "What ethnic heritage are you?"

A lot, if not most, Americans (USA) are of mixed ethnic heritage (Caucasians, or whites, can ethnically be a mix of anything from British to Italian to Russian ethnic heritage, for instance). But I know several white-skinned people who have Native American heritage within them.

Does that help any?

#12
nebula

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As for the racial divide, I have come to believe that the conflict is over culture rather than appearance. We tend to associate race with certain behaviors and beliefs or even such things as dress or music. The conflicts arise because there is a perception of one's culture being threatened or challenged, or one simply is uncomfortable with the other culture.

I don't know what cultures exist in Canada beyond "French" and "English" and Native Americans. But here we have so many subcultures and the same kinds of antagonism going on between these as you would see with racial antagonism. For example, small town folk don't like city folk, and vice versa, and both have sterotypes and animosities against each other, both thinking the other is better.

That's why I don't think it's about genetics.

#13
TsukinoRei

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I've never heard of a city pride group campaigning against mixing with country folk, or declaring that such a mixture would be against God and damaging to the blood lines of the city folk. I've also never heard for a pastor refusing to marry a city person to a country person, or of a church refusing membership to a mixed country/city couple.

I have heard of white pride groups, and black pride groups. I've heard of both declaring that the defence of their race requires that they be against the mixing of the races. I have heard of pastors refusing to marry a black person to a white person, and of a church refusing membership to a mixed black/white couple.

I would also challenge the assumption that colour predetermines culture.

Edited by BatSheep, 10 January 2013 - 10:39 AM.


#14
enoob57

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I've never heard of a city pride group campaigning against mixing with country folk, or declaring that such a mixture would be against God and damaging to the blood lines of the city folk. I've also never heard for a pastor refusing to marry a city person to a country person, or of a church refusing membership to a mixed country/city couple.

I have heard of white pride groups, and black pride groups. I've heard of both declaring that the defence of their race requires that they be against the mixing of the races. I have heard of pastors refusing to marry a black person to a white person, and of a church refusing membership to a mixed black/white couple.

I would also challenge the assumption that colour predetermines culture.

When one is in the forest all one can see is trees... when one is in the desert all one can see is sand, cactus...
when one is in the Word all one can see is how God Sees... Love, Steven

#15
ncn

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I have heard of pastors refusing to marry a black person to a white person, and of a church refusing membership to a mixed black/white couple.


Then one should not even be considering being married in;let alone becoming a member of such a church.

As, has been pointed out already on this thread , "Who is of a pure race anyway?" if that exists and I doubt it.

God loves us, each and everyone of us , you do really need to try and move forward and build your life on God's love for you.
The rest will not help you, it can only bring you down and hinder your spiritual growth.




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