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The Last Trump

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#1
veryberry

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1 Cor 15: 52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Notice carefully, "at the last trump". It is not trumpet, but "at the last trump". But, it is made by a trumpet.
Also notice, it doesn't say "angel's trumpet". It just says, "at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound".

In Revelation 8-9 and 11:15, you read about a series of seven trumpet judgments. When that seventh trumpet is blown, post-tribbers say, "Well, that's the last trumpet," when it didn't say "trumpet", it said "trump". The last trumpet is blown by an angel. The seventh trumpet of Revelation 11:15 is not "the last trump" of 1 Cor 15: 52. In Revelation 11:15, there is the seventh angel blowing the seventh trumpet, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord". The seventh trumpet of Revelation 11:15 ends the Tribulation and begins the Millennium. It doesn't catch up anybody.

The seventh trumpet comes after a rapture. Notice in Revelation 11:12, "Come up hither". Moses and Elijah are raptured before the last trumpet. So the seventh trumpet as nothing to do with any rapture.

In 1 Thess 4:16, the trumpet that calls you up is not a trumpet blown by an angel.

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

And in Revelation 4:1 -
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

1 Cor 15:52, 1 Thess 4:16, and Rev 4:1 as nothing to do with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15



#2
veryberry

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Might have posted this in the wrong forum...Sorry.



#3
His_disciple3

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good point, what ever thread it should be posted in

#4
FresnoJoe

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It Seems To Me

 

And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice. Exodus 19:18-19

 

That The Sound Of The Shofar Is Always Connected To The LORD Of Hosts (Of Armies)

 

So Gideon, and the hundred men that were with him, came unto the outside of the camp in the beginning of the middle watch; and they had but newly set the watch: and they blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers that were in their hands.  And the three companies blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers, and held the lamps in their left hands, and the trumpets in their right hands to blow withal: and they cried, The sword of the LORD, and of Gideon.

 

And they stood every man in his place round about the camp: and all the host ran, and cried, and fled. And the three hundred blew the trumpets, and the LORD set every man's sword against his fellow, even throughout all the host: and the host fled to Beth-shittah in Zererath, and to the border of Abel-meholah, unto Tabbath. Judges 7:19-22

 

To The LORD Jesus

 

And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. Revelation 10:1-3

 

You

 

And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so. Joshua 5:13-15

 

See

 

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14



#5
Brother Paul

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Isn't the Feast of Trumpets also Rosh ha'Shannah? 7 trumpets are sounded?



#6
Qnts2

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Isn't the Feast of Trumpets also Rosh ha'Shannah? 7 trumpets are sounded?

The Feast of Trumpet is also called Rosh HaShanah, but the number of trumpet blasts are more then 7 usually.

 

While Rosh Hashanah is also Yom Teruah, there are other times when a trumpet might be blasted. One historically was when God gave the children of Israel the Mosaic covenant/law.

 

Another is to announce the beginning of the year of Jubilee.



#7
Brother Paul

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So ideas like the seventh angel sounding...the 7th trumpet...and the last trump, do not indicate this symbolically as the final fulfillmrnt?



#8
Qnts2

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So ideas like the seventh angel sounding...the 7th trumpet...and the last trump, do not indicate this symbolically as the final fulfillmrnt?

 

The interpretation would depend on your eschatology. What is the last trump? Is the last trump the last of a certain series, or will it never again be sounded for eternity.

 

In my view, the trump announcing the year of the jubilee would not be an ending but a beginning. I would compare that blast could symbolize the future blast at the beginning of the millenium, in which case, the last blast mentioned would not literally be the last trump, but the last trump of an age or series.  

 

If the last trump on Rosh Hashanah is also the last trump before the 'great escape', then that could also fit a pre-trib timing. Rosh Hashanah is the final call to repentance, starting the week of awe, for the Jewish people. So the church could be raptured at the end of the call to Israel, so God has returned His attention to Israel to repent and return to God.  



#9
Brother Paul

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So ideas like the seventh angel sounding...the 7th trumpet...and the last trump, do not indicate this symbolically as the final fulfillmrnt?

 

The interpretation would depend on your eschatology. What is the last trump? Is the last trump the last of a certain series, or will it never again be sounded for eternity.

 

In my view, the trump announcing the year of the jubilee would not be an ending but a beginning. I would compare that blast could symbolize the future blast at the beginning of the millenium, in which case, the last blast mentioned would not literally be the last trump, but the last trump of an age or series.  

 

If the last trump on Rosh Hashanah is also the last trump before the 'great escape', then that could also fit a pre-trib timing. Rosh Hashanah is the final call to repentance, starting the week of awe, for the Jewish people. So the church could be raptured at the end of the call to Israel, so God has returned His attention to Israel to repent and return to God.  

 

 

Really good point sis and actually I do not disagree...if eschatologically this is the fulfillment of Rosh ha'Shannah being a New Counting of the days of man it WOULD represent the close of the old order and the beginning (a new bereshith of the new heavens and new earth, the beginning of the millennium, or more)...the Bible is full of New Firsts (many of which are Holy Days in the feasts). 

 

Some of God's 7 feasts have been fulfilled already by Christ's events and person. 



#10
Izzel

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What is the trump of God ?



#11
Spock

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What is the trump of God ?


Trumpet call - probably a shofar. (Jewish horn, very hard to play)

#12
bopeep1909

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What is the trump of God ?


Trumpet call - probably a shofar. (Jewish horn, very hard to play)

 

Where in scripture does it say it will be a shofar?



#13
Spock

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What is the trump of God ?


Trumpet call - probably a shofar. (Jewish horn, very hard to play)
Where in scripture does it say it will be a shofar?

Uhhhhhhhhh, I don't think it says explicitly. I was using inferencing skills I was taught in school. ;)

#14
fruitfull77

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1 Cor 15: 52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Notice carefully, "at the last trump". It is not trumpet, but "at the last trump". But, it is made by a trumpet.
Also notice, it doesn't say "angel's trumpet". It just says, "at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound".

In Revelation 8-9 and 11:15, you read about a series of seven trumpet judgments. When that seventh trumpet is blown, post-tribbers say, "Well, that's the last trumpet," when it didn't say "trumpet", it said "trump". The last trumpet is blown by an angel. The seventh trumpet of Revelation 11:15 is not "the last trump" of 1 Cor 15: 52. In Revelation 11:15, there is the seventh angel blowing the seventh trumpet, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord". The seventh trumpet of Revelation 11:15 ends the Tribulation and begins the Millennium. It doesn't catch up anybody.

The seventh trumpet comes after a rapture. Notice in Revelation 11:12, "Come up hither". Moses and Elijah are raptured before the last trumpet. So the seventh trumpet as nothing to do with any rapture.

In 1 Thess 4:16, the trumpet that calls you up is not a trumpet blown by an angel.

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

And in Revelation 4:1 -
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

1 Cor 15:52, 1 Thess 4:16, and Rev 4:1 as nothing to do with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15

I think if you look at Matt 24:31, Jesus says " He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other " This event happens at the sounding of the Seventh trumpet.

In Rev 8:2 we see the 7 angels were given seven trumpets.

Doesn't " trump" just mean the sounding of a trumpet?



#15
just_fish

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Very interesting thread, made me check the Greek--  :clap:

 

"trump"  G4536 - noun - trumpet

 

"trumpet" G4537  - verb - act of sounding/blowing a trumpet  (both as used in context of 1 Cor 15:52)

 

I do agree that the interpretation of 1 Cor 15:52 does depend on your understanding of Matt 24 and your understanding of the rapture

 

Good topic VB

God Bless

 

 


Edited by just_fish, 01 January 2014 - 07:11 PM.


#16
Izzel

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Does the last trump = the 7th trump ?



#17
fruitfull77

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Does the last trump = the 7th trump ?

 

It's a yes from me



#18
veryberry

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I have heard of the rapture happening around the feast of trumpets and it does seem very plausible.  How ever there is also Song of Solomon 2: 8-13.

 

8.The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9. My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10. My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11. For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12. The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

13. The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

 

Which is a beautiful picture of the rapture and it indicates a possible spring time gathering



#19
veryberry

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What is the trump of God ?

Often times when God speaks, it is described as the sound of a trumpet. (Ez. 19: 16,19). I do believe it will be Christ himself calling, and it will sound like a trumpet.



#20
veryberry

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1 Cor 15: 52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Notice carefully, "at the last trump". It is not trumpet, but "at the last trump". But, it is made by a trumpet.
Also notice, it doesn't say "angel's trumpet". It just says, "at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound".

In Revelation 8-9 and 11:15, you read about a series of seven trumpet judgments. When that seventh trumpet is blown, post-tribbers say, "Well, that's the last trumpet," when it didn't say "trumpet", it said "trump". The last trumpet is blown by an angel. The seventh trumpet of Revelation 11:15 is not "the last trump" of 1 Cor 15: 52. In Revelation 11:15, there is the seventh angel blowing the seventh trumpet, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord". The seventh trumpet of Revelation 11:15 ends the Tribulation and begins the Millennium. It doesn't catch up anybody.

The seventh trumpet comes after a rapture. Notice in Revelation 11:12, "Come up hither". Moses and Elijah are raptured before the last trumpet. So the seventh trumpet as nothing to do with any rapture.

In 1 Thess 4:16, the trumpet that calls you up is not a trumpet blown by an angel.

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

And in Revelation 4:1 -
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

1 Cor 15:52, 1 Thess 4:16, and Rev 4:1 as nothing to do with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15

I think if you look at Matt 24:31, Jesus says " He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other " This event happens at the sounding of the Seventh trumpet.

In Rev 8:2 we see the 7 angels were given seven trumpets.

Doesn't " trump" just mean the sounding of a trumpet?

 

This verse connects the second advent with the Feast of Trumpets in September. The elect that are gathered are the jews just like in Numbers 10:7, Deut 30:4 and Isaiah 27:13.






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