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Revelation 13

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#1
Spock

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I would love for us to discuss any part of this awesome chapter. I will copy it in its entirety and then anyone can reference any section they want to discuss.

1 Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, and on its horns were ten diadem crowns, and on its heads a blasphemous name.
2 Now the beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. The dragon gave the beast his power, his throne, and great authority to rule.
3 One of the beast's heads appeared to have been killed, but the lethal wound had been healed. And the whole world followed the beast in amazement;
4 they worshiped the dragon because he had given ruling authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast too, saying: "Who is like the beast?" and "Who is able to make war against him?"
5 The beast was given a mouth speaking proud words and blasphemies, and he was permitted to exercise ruling authority for forty-two months.
6 So the beast opened his mouth to blaspheme against God - to blaspheme both his name and his dwelling place, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
7 The beast was permitted to go to war against the saints and conquer them. He was given ruling authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation,
8 and all those who live on the earth will worship the beast, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb who was killed.
9 If anyone has an ear, he had better listen!
10 If anyone is meant for captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed by the sword, then by the sword he must be killed. This requires steadfast endurance and faith from the saints.
11 Then I saw another beast coming up from the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but was speaking like a dragon.
12 He exercised all the ruling authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and those who inhabit it worship the first beast, the one whose lethal wound had been healed.
13 He performed momentous signs, even making fire come down from heaven in front of people
14 and, by the signs he was permitted to perform on behalf of the beast, he deceived those who live on the earth. He told those who live on the earth to make an image to the beast who had been wounded by the sword, but still lived.
15 The second beast was empowered to give life to the image of the first beast so that it could speak, and could cause all those who did not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
16 He also caused everyone (small and great, rich and poor, free and slave) to obtain a mark on their right hand or on their forehead.
17 Thus no one was allowed to buy or sell things unless he bore the mark of the beast - that is, his name or his number.
18 This calls for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the beast's number, for it is man's number, and his number is 666.

Wow, what an unbelievable chapter. I wish I could understand fully every single word, but I love how The Lord makes it so that we have to go deep to understand his word, not just gloss over it. All praise, honor, and glory to the King of Kings for his blessed and holy word. May we do justice in love in our discussion.
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#2
Spock

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I will start. Let's look at verse 3 and verse 14

Verse 3 says "one of the beasts HEAD appears to have been killed, but the lethal wound was healed. ".

Vocabulary first. Beast one = antichrist; Beast two = false prophet


Spock thinks: this cannot mean the antichrist was shot in the head and killed. Why do I say this? Because unless the antichrist has more than one head, which is unlikely, it is not referencing a physical body with a head. (Spock, I love when you are so logical like this. Any more?)

Verse 14: " make an image to the beast who had been wounded by the SWORD...."

Spock thinks: hmmmm, this is very interesting. Let's compare this verse with verse 3 above. VERSE 3 says one of the heads was wounded. Here in verse 14, the beast was wounded by the sword. Are they talking about the same thing? I don't think so. You usually don't get a head wound by a sword. Usually you get shot in the head with a bullet, not a sword.

So, what do I make of verse 14? I can't be dogmatic here but it appears someone did try to assassinate the antichrist and failed, much like the attempt on Hitler. In this case, someone tried with a sword, or long knife I presume.

Conclusion: based on just this chapter alone, I don't think anyone can say the antichrist rose from the dead, like our Savior Lord Jesus. It does appear he was wounded but not killed.
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#3
other one

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To sum it up in a few words........    I'm going to throw you under the bus.....   but I'll make it up to you later...


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Marilyn C

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Hi Spock,

 

So glad you started this topic. I`m sure the Holy spirit will bring much to light as we speak with the right attitude, as you said. Do like your humour & working through the topic. It gives us all a good laugh for the day. So looking at the `head.` I believe as you do that that is symbolic. And I also know that it is not for me to speculate so I look further, (deeper as you said) into God`s word & He has explained it.

 

`Here is need for a discerning mind. These 7 heads are 7 hills; upon which the woman sits enthroned. They are also 7 kings; 5 have fallen already, one is reigning now; the last has not yet come yet, but when he does, his reign will be a short one.` (Rev. 17: 9 & 10  Knox)

 

I`ll do a time line to help us understand this.

 

 

1..........2..........3.........4..........5......(fallen/gone) (Trib) 6.......7 Anti-Christ........(3 1/2 yrs)

.

 

These `7 heads,` are 7 kings or rulers that rule the Global Government consecutively, one at a time. The 7th head/leader is the Anti-Christ & he is wounded - as if mortally wounded - `as if ` showing us that it is trickery, deception. Thus v. 3 & v. 12 concerning the beast whose deadly wound was healed is I believe speaking of the same beastly person who rules over the beastly government.

 

If for example we take 1. Obama.(USA)  2. David Cameron. (UK) 3...........4.........5......(Trib)6.........7.Anti-Christ,

 

as being leaders of the G7 & G20 which are over the world we can get a good example of what this scripture shows us.


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#5
Spock

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To sum it up in a few words........    I'm going to throw you under the bus.....   but I'll make it up to you later...


My students call me "Superman," so being under a bus should be no problem for me to discard.

Bring it big guy!
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#6
Spock

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Yo Marilyn, (Said in a Rocky voice)

When it says 5 are fallen, do you not see that as past tense from the author John in this case. Five kings previous from 95AD have fallen.

If not, let me come inside your brain to see why not.
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rollinTHUNDER

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Yo Spockster,

It looks like you might need a little help with this, so I've come to lend a hand (or fingers). Hang on, here we go.......

Revelation 17:1-18
And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Wow, I bit off a pretty big chunk and now I can't chew! But it gives you some other things to consider.


Cheers


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#8
rollinTHUNDER

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I'll break it down the way I understand this mystery. 

Revelation 17:
And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

 
This sure resembles the Roman Catholic Church.  Cardinals wear scarlet colored robes and Bishops wear purple and they drink from a golden cup with many jewels. Take a look for yourself: https://images.searc...imp=yhs-att_001
 
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

 
Again, this looks like the Roman Catholic Church.  The Roman's crucified, made sport of and burned many Christians at the stake.  The RCC was the modern Babylon, in that both of these kingdom's (Babylon & Rome) destroyed the Temple and carried off the golden vessels and artifacts back to their homelands.
 
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
 
The beast that was and is not is Babel.  Nimrod tried to have a global government way before it was time, so God destroyed this kingdom, scattered the people and confused their language. 
 
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
 
Rome sits on seven hills as well.
 
 
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 
In John's day, five kingdoms had fallen, the one that was at that time was Rome (sixth).  There were two beasts before Daniel's time, Assyria and Egypt.
The Romans have now expanded westward and now includes America, Britain and the EU.  This three headed beast also includes the UN, which was designed to create a global government (Babel).
 
1 Assyria
2 Egypt
3 Babylon
4 Media/Persia
5 Greece
6 Roman Empire & Holy Roman Empire
7 & 8 Revived Roman Empire will devour the entire earth (Babel) & Holy Roman Empire (Papacy)
 
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

 
I'm not sure how long an hour is here, but it will be a short time and within the final 42 months the beast will reign.  These ten kings will rule when the world is divided up into ten regions.
 
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
 
God will gather all nations to fight against Jerusalem (Armageddon).
 
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
 
The RCC has spread to many continents of the world, but Rome will always be her headquarters. 
 
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

 
 
Cheers
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#9
other one

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To sum it up in a few words........    I'm going to throw you under the bus.....   but I'll make it up to you later...


My students call me "Superman," so being under a bus should be no problem for me to discard.

Bring it big guy!

 

most people are so concerned about the tires that they forget about the drive shaft.....   don't forget to watch for that.


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#10
Spock

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Thunder,

Hard to argue your interpretation because it can be supported.

The RCC connection makes sense, being scarlet and on seven hills. I don't see Islam as the woman hopping on the back of the beast, more than I see the RCC.

As for the 8 kingdoms. Hard to argue against the first 6, with Rome being number 6. (I think my new friend Marilyn might want to chime in with something different, so I will be looking forward to that.)

I guess it gets fun speculating on 7 and 8.

Number 8 is the Beast (antichrist) so it appears there will be 10 something making up the beasts power base for one hour (short time).

Number 7 I guess is the revised Roman Empire which I suppose includes America. I think some people believe the 8th kingdom is the revised Roman Empire, but I guess it doesn't make that much of a difference. I see you have 7 and 8 basically as the same too.
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#11
Spock

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Back to revelation 13

Verse 5:

5 The beast was given a mouth speaking proud words and blasphemies, and he was permitted to exercise ruling authority for forty-two months.

This verse seems to narrow the antichrist's ruling power to 3.5 years only, not 7 years.

Thus, it seems to me that when the abomination of desolation occurs, THEN the beast (ac) will be revealed for who he truly is- a power hungry mocker of god. I suppose Satan somehow possesses this dude much like he did judas before judas turned on Christ.

Up until this time, he probably is a decent joe doing some good things and not being such a hater.

Thoughts?
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#12
Marilyn C

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Hi Spock & rollinTHUNDER,

 

Now fellas I`ve done an overview of the Historic & Contemporary views so we can see clearly what they are saying.

 

 

HISTORIC VIEW

 

GLOBAL GOVERNMENT - The Revived Roman Empire. (including Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, Medes & Persian, Greece, Rome)

 

Scriptural Support - NONE

Based on Man`s opinion of God`s symbols.

 

FALSE RELIGION - WHORE The Roman Catholic Church.

 

Scriptural Support - NONE

Based on Man`s opinion of God`s symbols.

 

(Note: Montana Marv honestly confessed (on the thread `America & ...`) that there were NO OTHER SCRIPTURES than the symbols.!!!!!!!!!)

 

 

 

 

CONTEMPORARY VIEW

 

GLOBAL GOVERNMENT - Islam (over 3 Super Powers - 1. British Com./ America 2. Russian Fed. 3. European Union)

 

Scriptural Support - Isa. 10: 24     31: 8    Micah 5: 5    Dan. 11: 36 - 45)

Based on God`s meaning for His symbols.

 

 

FALSE RELIGION - WHORE The religions of all the people (nations) united together. The United Nations of Religions. (the UN)

 

Scriptural support - James 4: 4   Rev. 17: 15

Based on God`s meaning for His symbols.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ERRORS

 

1. GLOBAL GOVERNMENT.

 

The Historical View errs in thinking that it can include `Assyria & Egypt,` in the list of World Rulers. God clearly shows us who the World Rulers are -

1. Babylon. 2. Medes & Persians. 3. Greece. 4. Rome. 5. Final Global Government.

If you include `Assyria & Egypt,` you would have to include the Mongolian Empire, the third Reich, the Ottoman Empire etc. but these are only large Empires but never World Rulers.

 

 

 

2. GLOBAL RELIGION.

 

Now with regard to the `Whore,` God describes her as the `Mother of harlots, `of all peoples, multitudes, nations & tongues.` (Rev. 17: 15) This means the religions of ALL the peoples, the Nations.  So when the Historic View says it is the Roman Catholic Church are they suggesting that the whole world will become part of the declining Roman Catholic Church?

 

All Religions means - Catholic, Protestant, Cults, Jehovah`s Witnesses, Mormons, New Agers, Hindus, Bai`hi`s,  Islamic, Masons, Satanists, Witches etc, etc.

 

And who has brought all these religions together? The United nations of religions, the UN. `Other One` has some good notes on this in `Countdown...` Other references are `Carl Teichrib of Forcing Change,` & `Berit Kjos of Crossroads.` The info is out there by those God has raise up to reveal this agenda. 


Edited by Marilyn C, 06 June 2014 - 09:49 PM.

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#13
kwikphilly

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Blessings Spockster....

     Ah,so many ways to approach Revelation & how we approach it gives us different views... Just before these events ,in Chapter 12 we establish our view,the dragon as satan,most agree the woman is Israel & she gave birth to the child"Jesus".Looking as a description of the vision of events at history's end we see a final ,great persecution of the Jews stimulated by satan.As a series of  imagery we see those images intended to describe the hostility between good & evil....God & satan seeing the woman as the church & the entire description as symbolic of a timeless struggle.Then a  fururist sees the 1st beast as the anti-Christ & the 2nd as the false prophet.Together with satan they form a counterfeit trinity that tries to establish dominance over mankind before being destroyed at Christ's personal intervention(see Rev19:19-21)Back to historists view ,taking the 2 beasts as symbolic of anti-Christian gov't & false religion........One day ,with help  from the Holy Spirit I may know for sure which view is "the right view" or after I am as Christ is in my new glorified body-lol

     In verse 16 We are only told that a matrk on the hand or forehead will be required for a person to buy or sell in the lands that are controlled by the beast.As I explained the different approaches to interpretation the beast is identified by either the anti-Christ,a person or as anti-Christian gov't,I cannot see the latter because how would a gov't be thrown into the lake of fire later ?(see Rev 19:20)..Perhaps a supermarket checkout process may indicate the nature of the mark?Just like a scanner reads the price code printed on each grocery store item ,so a scanner may read a tattooed number on a hand or a forehead & automatically credit or debit a persons banking account.by making sure that only someone who has given allegiance to the beast is given a number,gov't could exercize complete & total control over citizens

      Then we have the 18th verse  & the meaning of 666...............no one can ever agree on the meaning of "the number of the beast"Some note the  #7 is the symbolic number of God,6 ben man's number,because it falls short of perfection.In both Hebrew & Greek ,letters had  numerical values.Aleph/Alpha was 1,Beth/Beta-2 & so on....so it's possible that 666 represents the numerical values of the true name of the beast or the anti-christ.the problem with that approach is that it is open to abuse.It was used in the 40's to justify the teaching that Hitler & mussolini,amongst others was the anti-Christ.

     Ultimately,nobody knows just what this numerical hint to the beast identity really means,we can onlly speculate & consider the different views

  So many prophetic utterances in the Holy Scriptures are understood after,not before,their fulfillment

        Just throwing some thoughts out there,God Bless you Brother,,,,,,it is an awesome chapter......just like every other chapter written in the Bible,,,,

Praise & Glory to God,indeed                                                                                                          With love-in Christ,Kwik


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#14
Spock

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Hi Kwik,

Well, you must have been in my brain when you wrote this post because I too think like you did here- looking at more than one angle (perspective) to try to see what makes more sense.

The 666 part makes me chuckle because I haven't a clue except thinking like you- scanner of some sort. If 666 means anything more, beats me.

It does seem clearer to me that beast one is AC and beast two is false prophet. Both seem to be one particular person, and it does make sense to look upon them as the unholy trinity (satan, antichrist, and false prophet) to counterfeit the holy trinity as we know -
father, son, and Holy Spirit.

Not as easy reading is your post is my Aussie friend Marilyn's just before yours. I don't know why exactly, but for some reason I'm not feeling the interpretation of her post here. Maybe it's too deep for my dense mind. Or maybe I'm just tired. Sigh

In love,
Spock
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Marilyn C

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Hi Spock,

 

Now my dear new friend, please tell me what is difficult about me asking for scriptures to support the historic side.  These are the answers I get ....

 

Spock said, `Hard to argue your interpretation (rT)  because it can be supported.`   (Where are the scriptures specifically saying Rev. Rome?)

rollingTHUNDER & Spock - `it`s fun speculating,....this sure resembles,....looks like....is Babel.....the 7 Empires....` (Again where, oh where are the specific scriptures saying those things. All I get is opinions, man`s interpretations, & move on to another topic.)

 

Is what I am asking so difficult? Yes it is because you have NO SCRIPTURES to support any of the historic view. That is what is muddling up your mind because you have believed this for so long that it is ingrained in your minds. To get those muddy waters clear you need first to admit, like Montana Marv that there are no other Scriptures (than the symbols) & realise that it is man`s speculations, opinions, resembles like, etc etc & NOT GOD`S MEANING which is in scripture. The Holy Spirit brings truth from His word not from man`s opinions. 


Edited by Marilyn C, 06 June 2014 - 11:57 PM.

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#16
Marilyn C

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Hi Spock & rollinTHUNDER,

 

God the author of the book of Revelation, as we know, desires for us to understand His Son more. Thus He has over 330 references to figures, shadows, symbols, types, etc  found in the Old Testament. Now God does not leave the interpretation of these to us, as our opinions are like belly buttons, - everyone has one!!!! :hmmm: For example let us look at God`s meaning versus man`s opinion in regard to the woman in Rev. 17.

 

MAN`S OPINION

 

rT said concerning the woman, `this sure resembles the Roman Catholic Church.` And yes we can all see that resemblance, however that is based on our opinion & not God`s word.

 

 

GOD`S SYMBOL & MEANING

 

The woman had on her forehead - `on her forehead a name was written; Mystery Babylon the Great, the Mother of Prostitutes & of the Abominations of the earth.` (Rev. 17: 5)

God`s priests wore on their foreheads - `Holiness unto the Lord.` (Ex. 28: 36)

The `forehead,` represented character.

 

 

The woman`s garments, she was  `arrayed in purple & scarlet, & adorned with gold & precious stones......`  (Rev. 17: 4)

The priests garments were `gold & blue & purple & scarlet.....` with 12 precious stones....(Ex. 28: 1 - 21)

Note `blue,` was symbolic of Divinity. These garments represented their holy office of mediation, & received honour & respect.

 

 

Thus the NAME & GARMENTS represent the CHARACTER & OFFICE of the priests. The woman - false religion has an unholy charater & receives honor & respect from the leaders of the Global Government.

 

God`s word does not say the Roman Catholic Church is the woman but refers to ALL false religions - `peoples, multitudes, nations & tongues.` (Rev. 17: 15)

ALL religions as they are ALL unholy & ALL have an alliance with the leaders of the World System.

 

To single out the Roman Catholic Church is to be blinded to what Satan is really doing, subtly. He is bringing ONE BELIEF that is UNITING ALL RELIGIONS, - the strong delusion -

 

`the strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. ` (2 Tim. 8 - 12)


Edited by Marilyn C, 07 June 2014 - 01:49 AM.

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#17
Bible_Gazer

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The last kingdom to rule was as far as Daniel 2 is concern is the Iron kingdom.
Which was Rome and the Holy Roman Empire.
So it got wounded, not dead yet.
Is to revive.
So as the bible and history - Rome is still a part of the Eighth beast Rev.17 its of the seven.(the last one)

How I see it so far.
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#18
Montana Marv

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Spock

 

You wanted  be to contribute:

 

First of all there are three beasts mentioned.  1. The one coming out of the sea is an empire (nations), it has the same attributes as the leopard, the bear and the lion (Babylon, Meades and Persians and Greece).  Along with its own (iron).  2. One of the heads (leaders) of this first beast has a fatal wound which is healed, and the whole world follows him because his wound was healed.  3. The third beast is the False Prophet.

 

The beast with the fatal wound only has authority for 42 months (no more, no less).  This is a man, because he and the False Prophet are thrown alive into the Lake of Fire in Rev 19:20.

 

I believe this world leader is the one described in Dan 9:27 (he makes a seven year agreement, then breaks it with the A/D).  So this beast is in control for the first half the Daniels 70th Week.  Some one more powerful comes on the scene for the final 42 months (he is seen in Rev 16:13.  This same entity chases after the woman (Israel) after the A/D is set up Matt 24:15 and  (Rev 12:13, 14 - dragon for 42 months).

 

This is my take on Rev 13.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv


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#19
kwikphilly

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Blessings Spock......

    Ah dear Brother,you know me well (LOL) I always try  to  "keep it simple"........as I pray the Holy Spirit to reveal Gods Timeless Truth that I may have Wisdom & Understanding....He never seems to complicate matters but very gently tells us

 

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.        1Cor13:9-12

                                                                                                                                                  With love-in Christ,Kwik
 


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#20
Marilyn C

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Hi Kwikphilly,

 

You so rightly highlighted `we know in part, we prophesy in part....` but how wonderful to know that God`s prophecy`s (the Bible) are truth - His word, prophetic, is all truth. And we can have great confidence in Him & His word. The enemy however would always try to undermine our trust & understanding of God`s word, saying -

 `it is all too hard, or we are not meant to know, or there are so many interpretations........` as Peter says -

 

`those who are untaught & unstable distort, as they do the rest of scripture to their own destruction. You therefore beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness, but GROW in the grace & knowledge of our Lord & Saviour, Jesus Christ.` (2 Peter 3: 16 - 18)

 

So to grow in knowing Christ we are told we need to -

 

`Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth......But refuse foolish & ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels....with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth.` (2 Tim. 2: 15,  23 - 25)

 

 

God desires us to come to the full knowledge of the truth of all God`s word, (Eph. 4: 13...) yet we have so many interpretations. Why? You again so rightly said - `Ah, so many ways to approach Revelation & how we approach it gives us different views...` Why? because they are all our opinions. Many a time I`ve had to (& still do) repent of MY OPINION placed over God`s word. Who do I think I am to be so proud, arrogant, stupid that I can tell God what He means in His word. I have to humble myself & ask His Holy Spirit to show me in His word what He means. His word explains His symbols.

 

Whenever we see symbols explained without other scriptures (God`s explanation) then we will only get confused. Why does God talk about being `tossed to & fro by every wind of doctrine,` (Eph. 4: 14) because we all like to have our opinion & to speculate. No wonder people are confused & blame God`s word or God saying, `We are not meant to know, God doesn`t want us to know.....` But God does desire us to know what He means, & as Spock said at the start it may mean going deeper. So let`s be encouraged & look to the Lord  for His meaning in His word & not `Mr. so-called expert or my opinion etc....` As Peter again guides us -

 

`And so we have the prophetic word (Bible) made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns & the morning star arises in your hearts.` (2 Peter 1: 19)

 

So.....is it man`s opinion, speculation......or are we paying heed to what God explains, His meaning in His word.


Edited by Marilyn C, 07 June 2014 - 03:02 PM.

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