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Please explain....

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#21
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.... His own words say this 2 Corinthians 12:16 16 But be that as it may, I did not burden you. Nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you by cunning!

I believe you did mention cunning, hopefully your not going to accuse Paul of being a liar...


http://bible.cc/2_co...hians/12-16.htm

~

The Truth Of The Matter Is

For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
2 Corinthians 2:15-17

Paul's Words Are God's Words

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

And Here Is What Brother Saul Really Said

I'm ready to visit you for a third time, and I won't bother you for help. I don't want your possessions. Instead, I want you. Children shouldn't have to provide for their parents, but parents should provide for their children. I will be very glad to spend whatever I have. I'll even give myself for you. Do you love me less because I love you so much? You agree, then, that I haven't been a burden to you. Was I a clever person who trapped you by some trick? Did I take advantage of you through any of the men I sent you? I encouraged Titus to visit you, and I sent my friend with him. Did Titus take advantage of you? Didn't we have the same motives and do things the same way? 2 Corinthians 12:14-18 (GOD'S WORD ® Translation)

Perhaps Your Arm Is Getting Sore From Stoning Beloved Saul?
Perhaps Not

Love, Joe



:thumbsup:
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#22
back2thebible

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.... His own words say this 2 Corinthians 12:16 16 But be that as it may, I did not burden you. Nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you by cunning!

I believe you did mention cunning, hopefully your not going to accuse Paul of being a liar...


http://bible.cc/2_co...hians/12-16.htm

~

The Truth Of The Matter Is

For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
2 Corinthians 2:15-17

Paul's Words Are God's Words

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

And Here Is What Brother Saul Really Said

I'm ready to visit you for a third time, and I won't bother you for help. I don't want your possessions. Instead, I want you. Children shouldn't have to provide for their parents, but parents should provide for their children. I will be very glad to spend whatever I have. I'll even give myself for you. Do you love me less because I love you so much? You agree, then, that I haven't been a burden to you. Was I a clever person who trapped you by some trick? Did I take advantage of you through any of the men I sent you? I encouraged Titus to visit you, and I sent my friend with him. Did Titus take advantage of you? Didn't we have the same motives and do things the same way? 2 Corinthians 12:14-18 (GOD'S WORD ® Translation)

Perhaps Your Arm Is Getting Sore From Stoning Beloved Saul?
Perhaps Not

Love, Joe



:thumbsup:




stoning Paul now are we? because I say he is crafty and cunning?.....ha ha ha according to scripture he is by far a very cunning and brave soldier of Christ, did he use deceit or trickery to bring people to Christ?

well It depends if you believe that Paul really believed people of Athens had made an altar for the God of the Jews and it was really built and constructed for the one true God creator of the world, I'm not sure anyone of that time period would be convinced that this was the case, since the One True God would never share worship with other gods, and any altar contructed for His worship had precise methods for altar construction

but being a cunning and crafty fellow as Paul is, he used this very altar to share the one true gospel about the One True God, and I applaud his clever opening, even the angels are not as shrewd when it comes to humans (see Luke 16:8) but God commends the shrewd manager, Just as God commends Paul for using an opportunity to say the unkown altar was built for Him, knowing full well that altar was not built for the God of the Israelites
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#23

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.... I say he is crafty and cunning?.....ha ha ha according to scripture he is by far a very cunning and brave soldier of Christ, did he use deceit or trickery to bring people to Christ?


:thumbsup:

http://bible.cc/2_co...hians/12-16.htm

~

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?


For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;


But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1 Corinthians 1:17-25
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#24
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You need to realise that the Macedonian Church was poor in finances YET abundant givers,




CJB - 2 Corinthians 11 v 8 : I robbed other congregations (Macedonian church) by accepting support from them in order to serve you.(Corinthian church)


Did Paul literally rob the Macedonian congregation?


No he didn't.
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#25
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Interesting topic here. Only thing id suggest is praying before going around them for it sounds like theyre testing you to see how far they can push you and of course theyll say youre wrong theyre blind for they wont look yet but in due time theyll see whether by their own choice is not up to us but the Lord
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#26
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    I really enjoy discussing the Bible. There is so much to learn and so much to share.

    I am led to reach my hand out, in love, to those in need.

.... just curious but what venue does this after work hanging out take place, a bar or a bible study....


????

And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. Luke 14:23





so if there going to a nude pole dancin bar a Christian should just think of it as part of the job in ministry

Please, don't go to the extreme in your mind to try and prove your position. Deal with what you have been told and don't and to it.




I'd respond but I can't understand what you are saying .........."And don't to it"????
you will find everyone has unseen boundries and lines that they don't cross as Christians, I like to see where peoples lines are drawn in there walk

some Christians for their own safety and wisedom can go so far into the enemies camp, others can go so deep they lose their way to come back

we know that Paul became all things to all men as a ploy to lead them to salvation, but I wouldn't perceive this to mean he became a drunkard to reach the drunk, or a fornicator to reach the premiscuous

The phrase should of been "and don't add to it".

I was referring to when Joe quoted scripture and you ran far and wide with a counter. It would of been better to just reply to what was posted to you and not change it.
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#27
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back2thebible



You need to realise that the Macedonian Church was poor in finances YET abundant givers,




CJB - 2 Corinthians 11 v 8 : I robbed other congregations (Macedonian church) by accepting support from them in order to serve you.(Corinthian church)


Did Paul literally rob the Macedonian congregation?


No he didn't.


I'm sorry but I never took that scripture out of context as you did to assume Paul robbed anyone nor did I even mention it

If you haven't been following I said Paul a man deeply knowledgable of Jewish law and doctrine knew without a doubt that the pagan altar they had built to an "unknown god" was not created for the God of Israel, as that altar had specific directions for its creation, one look at the pagan altar and Paul knew it was not created for the God of Israel

so clever and cunning as Paul is, he used this unknown altar to introduce the gospel of Jesus, declaring that the unknown god they worshiped was in fact the creator of the universe and we see that some men joined him and believed
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#28

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....so clever and cunning as Paul is,


By The Breath Of The Living God, By The Power Of The Holy Spirit

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Beloved Brother Paul Speaks Of His Ministry

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:17-18

And Yet Some Still Accuse

But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1 Corinthians 1:23-25

And Mock

Yea, hath God said, Genesis 3:1(c )

This Apostle
This Teacher Of Mine
This Dear Jew And My Brother, Saul of Tarsus

Thank You LORD Jesus For Your Spokesmen

Love, Joe
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#29
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I'm sorry but I never took that scripture out of context as you did to assume Paul robbed anyone nor did I even mention it





Did you not quote 2 Corinthians 12 v 16?








post #99 - "back2thebible"

His own words say this 2 Corinthians 12:16


16 But be that as it may, I did not burden you. Nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you by cunning!








You then used the word ploy - which is what I responded to....



You are chopping and changing.




* PS.....go back and read posts #98, #99 and #100 to refresh your memory.
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#30
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I'm sorry but I never took that scripture out of context as you did to assume Paul robbed anyone nor did I even mention it





Did you not quote 2 Corinthians 12 v 16?








post #99 - "back2thebible"

His own words say this 2 Corinthians 12:16


16 But be that as it may, I did not burden you. Nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you by cunning!








You then used the word ploy - which is what I responded to....



You are chopping and changing.




* PS.....go back and read posts #98, #99 and #100 to refresh your memory.



If my crime is saying Paul is crafty and cunning, I don't mind telling him to his face when I see him, as I believe these are good qualities and saved his life on more than one occasion, I'm not sure why you see them as derogatory.

Is it your belief that Paul seen the unknown altar and actually believed it was designed and built for the God of the israelites?
or did he use a little street smarts and take advantage of a good opportunity to share the gospel of Jesus Christ
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#31

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or did he use a little street smarts and take advantage of a good opportunity to share the gospel of Jesus Christ


:thumbsup:

~

God Is Smarter Than Any Street And The Folk Found On It

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
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#32
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I'm sorry but I never took that scripture out of context as you did to assume Paul robbed anyone nor did I even mention it





Did you not quote 2 Corinthians 12 v 16?








post #99 - "back2thebible"

His own words say this 2 Corinthians 12:16


16 But be that as it may, I did not burden you. Nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you by cunning!








You then used the word ploy - which is what I responded to....



You are chopping and changing.




* PS.....go back and read posts #98, #99 and #100 to refresh your memory.



If my crime is saying Paul is crafty and cunning, I don't mind telling him to his face when I see him, as I believe these are good qualities and saved his life on more than one occasion, I'm not sure why you see them as derogatory.

Is it your belief that Paul seen the unknown altar and actually believed it was designed and built for the God of the israelites?
or did he use a little street smarts and take advantage of a good opportunity to share the gospel of Jesus Christ



I was addressing your use of the word PLOY. I then showed you the definition of ploy.


You are now talking about street smarts etc but that is not what I originally pulled you up on - please stick to the topic.
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#33
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You used the word ploy - You said that Paul became all things to all men as a PLOY to lead them to salvation.....


I think you made an error by choosing to use that word.


Paul in fact had a true heart for the salvation of people and was willing to trade his place for others.




As for streetsmarts etc - it is not a sin to be one step ahead of those trying to trip you up - to out smart someone, to be wise to someones trickery - that is not deception - as in Matthew 10 v 16: "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves." - Jesus


Jesus was always wise to those who were trying to set Him up.
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#34
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You used the word ploy - You said that Paul became all things to all men as a PLOY to lead them to salvation.....


I think you made an error by choosing to use that word.


Paul in fact had a true heart for the salvation of people and was willing to trade his place for others.




As for streetsmarts etc - it is not a sin to be one step ahead of those trying to trip you up - to out smart someone, to be wise to someones trickery - that is not deception - as in Matthew 10 v 16: "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves." - Jesus


Jesus was always wise to those who were trying to set Him up.



was Rahab a liar? did Paul actually lie? when he said this altar of the unknown god is actually built for the creator of the world

so I used the word ploy; a stratagem, a cunning move to gain advantage

Yes I'll stick with ploy, and when you meet Paul some day he will tell you of the many other ploys he used in his lifetime, If you don't think God uses stategy or cunning moves to gain advantage you haven't read the bible, Its full of cunning strategy, just as the Holy Spirit led me to be cunning and strategic when chased by gang members into a sewer pipe

I had crawled about 125 ft into the pipe and a gang member who had seen my tracks lead into the pipe from the aque duct I was running down, proceeded in after me a few minutes latter and was about 15ft away in pitch blackness, I had remained perfectly silent but I was cramping in the position I was forced to remain in, I moved my hand to redistribute my weight, and it came down on a leaf and made a crunching sound, the gang member stopped instantly

without thinking (as this cunning stategy was given to my mind) I took my two fingers and tapped them as fast as I could on the side of the standing water to mimic the sound of a rat running down the pipe) now did I use trickery to save my life.....you bet I did! as that gang member backed up and out of the pipe at record speed.

being cunning and clever are God given attributes, like all gifts you can use them for good or evil
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#35
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B2TB,

I'm glad you got out of that gang situation safely but it's not in the context of what I'm referring to.



Did Paul lie about the "unknown god" altar?

I think not - The Hebrew God was not known to them, so Paul used that prop as the opportunity to teach them. Was he being deceptive or lying to do that?

No.


As for Rahab, she wasn't instructed to lie but did that off her own bat.

I do not compare Rahab's actions with Paul's at all.
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#36
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B2TB,

I'm glad you got out of that gang situation safely but it's not in the context of what I'm referring to.



Did Paul lie about the "unknown god" altar?

I think not - The Hebrew God was not known to them, so Paul used that prop as the opportunity to teach them. Was he being deceptive or lying to do that?

No.


As for Rahab, she wasn't instructed to lie but did that off her own bat.

I do not compare Rahab's actions with Paul's at all.




well I disagree..........and I don't think for one second that Paul thought that the altar was built for the God of all creation.........and even if it was God would have never accepted anything sacrificed on it, as it was built wrong, and would never be amongst other pagan altars
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#37
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B2TB,

I'm glad you got out of that gang situation safely but it's not in the context of what I'm referring to.



Did Paul lie about the "unknown god" altar?

I think not - The Hebrew God was not known to them, so Paul used that prop as the opportunity to teach them. Was he being deceptive or lying to do that?

No.


As for Rahab, she wasn't instructed to lie but did that off her own bat.

I do not compare Rahab's actions with Paul's at all.




well I disagree..........and I don't think for one second that Paul thought that the altar was built for the God of all creation.........and even if it was God would have never accepted anything sacrificed on it, as it was built wrong, and would never be amongst other pagan altars


No I didn't say that Paul Knew it was built for God of the Hebrews.
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