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Homosexuality, Romans 1, Idolatry, Loving People

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#1
GoldenEagle

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So a couple years back I started a discussion in the inner and outer court about homosexuality particularly relating to Romans 1. Took me a while to find it but consider this post for a breakdown of Romans 1.

This weekend I heard a sermon that really boggled my mind about how I view this passage.

1. What are your thoughts on Homosexuality and Idolatry in relation Romans 1? (And let's throw in Romans 2 as well for context.)

2. Relating to Idolatry:
A) Where do we spend our time?
B) Where do our resources go?
C) Where are our affections?
D) In what ways do you find yourself looking for peace in creation instead of the Creator?
 

3. How are we to love people who partake in such lifestyles?

4. How are we to love people who join this discussion board who have this lifestyle?

God bless,

GE


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#2
OakWood

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3 and 4/

 

The only answer I can give (and it may be wrong. I'll stand corrected if I am) is to look at it this way:

 

When you give yourself to Jesus, you have decided that you don't want to be a sinner anymore. Whether you continue to sin or not is a different thing entirely, and I'm not really going to discuss that now.

 

If you are a homosexual man and you say to yourself "wouldn't it better, if I wasn't like this? Wouldn't it be better if I found women attractive and not men? That way I could get married, have kids and do so without deceiving anybody including myself."

Well, in my opinion if you say that then at least you are wanting to change.

 

But, if you are a homosexual man and you say to yourself "I like being gay. I love the pleasure that I get from it. In fact I'm proud to be gay and I don't want to change."

Well now there's a serious problem.

 

We can argue until the cows come home about the sin of homosexuality, in fact we can argue about any sin but I think that we do give homosexuals a harder time than other sinners, probably because it's easier for us because after all, homosexuality is one sin that most of us are never going to be tempted into!

 

I could feasibly be tempted into lust (towards women) because I do find women desirable.

I could also be tempted to steal, because after all I don't think I'm alone here in saying that sometimes I've wanted something that I can't afford to buy.

I could even be tempted into taking drugs - they are supposed to make you 'high' and give you pleasure, after all.

 

But I could NOT be tempted into homosexuality because I just do not find other men physically attractive. In fact quite the opposite, I find the thought of getting physically intimate with another man quite repulsive.

 

As most of us are not homosexual, it's easy for us to feel superior because it's one sin that's never going to tempt us, therefore we can point the finger at homosexuals without feeling guilty in any way. A lot of Christians are complete hypocrites when it comes to this.

 

So, I'm not in any position to judge them or what they do. All I can ask is:- do they acknowledge homosexual activity as being wrong and want to change who they are, or are they proud of it? If you are proud of any sin, then you clearly don't want to change. You have given yourself to such desires and do not want what God wants. Anybody who acknowledges that a sin is a sin can find strength through Jesus but when somebody calls evil good and good evil, then what hope is there for them?

 

My thoughts about dealing with homosexuals is not to judge them but to ask them if they believe that homosexuality is wrong or not. If they accept Jesus and want to change who they are then that's all that matters. It may take some time before they stop practising homosexuality, but I imagine that its one of the hardest sins there is to give up.

A straight man who lives a promiscuous lifestyle, at least has an outlet for his passions - he can marry and relieve his passions that way. A homosexual man has no outlet for his sexual urges because even homosexual marriage is a sin. The only option he has is to become 'straight' (through the power of the Holy Spirit), but when he becomes straight he's still going to be burdened with lust, but at least his desires will be aimed towards females (as God designed).

So if you look at this way, a homosexual man is doubly burdened - not only must he fight the sin of lust, but his passions are all geared wrong in the first place.

 

Of course everything I've said about homosexual men applies in principle to lesbians too.


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#3
Tazcontrol

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Many people know my story. I've come a long way from where I was. And you are right, it is a hard sin to turn from. But finally God has stepped in and helped me with that. Now there is a man in my life that I just think the world of. He is my best friend. He is a widower who was very much in love with his wife. We work together very well, and I won't leave his side unless God disapproves. I would ask that you pray for Him and for God to soften his heart. The first time I hung out with him he read to me out of the bible. We are just friends, and if it's not in God's will I will understand. But I am very fond of him. And ask that you would just pray for the both of us.


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#4
OakWood

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Many people know my story. I've come a long way from where I was. And you are right, it is a hard sin to turn from. But finally God has stepped in and helped me with that. Now there is a man in my life that I just think the world of. He is my best friend. He is a widower who was very much in love with his wife. We work together very well, and I won't leave his side unless God disapproves. I would ask that you pray for Him and for God to soften his heart. The first time I hung out with him he read to me out of the bible. We are just friends, and if it's not in God's will I will understand. But I am very fond of him. And ask that you would just pray for the both of us.

 

Praying.


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#5
Geoff Primanti

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So a couple years back I started a discussion in the inner and outer court about homosexuality particularly relating to Romans 1. Took me a while to find it but consider this post for a breakdown of Romans 1.

This weekend I heard a sermon that really boggled my mind about how I view this passage.

1. What are your thoughts on Homosexuality and Idolatry in relation Romans 1? (And let's throw in Romans 2 as well for context.)

2. Relating to Idolatry:
A) Where do we spend our time?
B) Where do our resources go?
C) Where are our affections?
D) In what ways do you find yourself looking for peace in creation instead of the Creator?
 

3. How are we to love people who partake in such lifestyles?

4. How are we to love people who join this discussion board who have this lifestyle?

God bless,

GE

 

I've typed out a complete message on the verses in Romans that apply (in the form of two messages as the teaching is from two passages in direct context of each other; divided for the sake of not having one long message) if a moderator will give me permission to copy and paste it.


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#6
Geoff Primanti

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I would also say very adamantly that the way to love them is not to condone their choice of behavior; because if they continue in it the eternal consequences are unspeakable (except to say that it is best defined by everlasting fire).


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#7
GoldenEagle

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I'm not sure a sermon but I'd be interested in what you have to say. Just word it as a discussion instead of a lecture I guess Geoff?

God bless,

GE


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#8
Godspells

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3 and 4/

 

The only answer I can give (and it may be wrong. I'll stand corrected if I am) is to look at it this way:

 

When you give yourself to Jesus, you have decided that you don't want to be a sinner anymore. Whether you continue to sin or not is a different thing entirely, and I'm not really going to discuss that now.

 

If you are a homosexual man and you say to yourself "wouldn't it better, if I wasn't like this? Wouldn't it be better if I found women attractive and not men? That way I could get married, have kids and do so without deceiving anybody including myself."

Well, in my opinion if you say that then at least you are wanting to change.

 

But, if you are a homosexual man and you say to yourself "I like being gay. I love the pleasure that I get from it. In fact I'm proud to be gay and I don't want to change."

Well now there's a serious problem.

 

We can argue until the cows come home about the sin of homosexuality, in fact we can argue about any sin but I think that we do give homosexuals a harder time than other sinners, probably because it's easier for us because after all, homosexuality is one sin that most of us are never going to be tempted into!

 

I could feasibly be tempted into lust (towards women) because I do find women desirable.

I could also be tempted to steal, because after all I don't think I'm alone here in saying that sometimes I've wanted something that I can't afford to buy.

I could even be tempted into taking drugs - they are supposed to make you 'high' and give you pleasure, after all.

 

But I could NOT be tempted into homosexuality because I just do not find other men physically attractive. In fact quite the opposite, I find the thought of getting physically intimate with another man quite repulsive.

 

As most of us are not homosexual, it's easy for us to feel superior because it's one sin that's never going to tempt us, therefore we can point the finger at homosexuals without feeling guilty in any way. A lot of Christians are complete hypocrites when it comes to this.

 

So, I'm not in any position to judge them or what they do. All I can ask is:- do they acknowledge homosexual activity as being wrong and want to change who they are, or are they proud of it? If you are proud of any sin, then you clearly don't want to change. You have given yourself to such desires and do not want what God wants. Anybody who acknowledges that a sin is a sin can find strength through Jesus but when somebody calls evil good and good evil, then what hope is there for them?

 

My thoughts about dealing with homosexuals is not to judge them but to ask them if they believe that homosexuality is wrong or not. If they accept Jesus and want to change who they are then that's all that matters. It may take some time before they stop practising homosexuality, but I imagine that its one of the hardest sins there is to give up.

A straight man who lives a promiscuous lifestyle, at least has an outlet for his passions - he can marry and relieve his passions that way. A homosexual man has no outlet for his sexual urges because even homosexual marriage is a sin. The only option he has is to become 'straight' (through the power of the Holy Spirit), but when he becomes straight he's still going to be burdened with lust, but at least his desires will be aimed towards females (as God designed).

So if you look at this way, a homosexual man is doubly burdened - not only must he fight the sin of lust, but his passions are all geared wrong in the first place.

 

Of course everything I've said about homosexual men applies in principle to lesbians too.

 

 

I just wanted to say that I thought this was a very gentle and wise post and I wanted to thank you for writing it. 

 

There is unfortunately a lot of really negative crap that comes out of the mouth of Christians regarding homosexuals, to the point that it is difficult to even be associated with the same faith as them. The Westburo Baptists are a particularly good example of this. 

 

Christianity is suppose to be about gentle albeit steadfast beliefs, but always done with love and care. 

 

Most of what I get from uber conservative Christians is a real homophobia and a complete indifference towards attaining a sense of higher understanding about the condition than "They're possessed by demons." 

 

It also still baffles me how people read Romans 1 and start spewing about how horrible gays are and then apparently miss Romans 2 which says straight up, "But you shall not judge them for you do the same things." 

 

And having compassion and understanding is not the same as condoning it. I go to a Methodist Church that is described as a "Reconciliator" which basically means they have full, 100% acceptance of alternative lifestyles. I myself am not comfortable with that position either, but I feel it is more helpful than the other end. 


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#9
GoldenEagle

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Notes from Sunday:

===Background to Romans ===
Romans 15:14-25


===The Gospel of Grace and Peace===
Romans 1:1-7
*The Peace of God is found in the Person of Jesus.


The Gospel is not a system but a Person – Jesus.
Peace is internal. We may not have peace this side of eternity.

Romans 1:16-17
*Paul’s boldness is the Gospel resides in the fact that he believed the Gospel is the only thing that can provide true peace and true rest to the human experience.


To be right with God is to be at rest in Him.

===Man’s Attempt to Find Peace Through Creation===

Romans 1:18-25
*There is nothing in God’s creation that can satisfy the longing of the restless soul


God’s Beauty

God’s Power

God’s Order

Idolatry is at the root of sin. Idolatry is replacing the Creator with the creation.

===Man’s Attempt to Find Peace Through Morality===

Romans 1:26-32
*The root of sin is self-centered idolatry; this is when man withdraws his affections away from the Creator and places it on the desires of his or her own heart.


Every man and woman has fallen short of the glory of God.

Examples of Idolatry:
Using people to fulfill you.

Striving to be good to find peace.

Manipulation of circumstances and other people.

Obtaining possessions, power, and/or status.
Finding fulfillment in your job, in sports, in books, in TV shows, etc.

===The Only Source of True Peace===

Romans 2:12-24
*The Morality of man will never provide peace for the restless.

*It is only the perfect righteousness that God provides through the righteousness of Christ that can give peace to the restless and weary soul.


Thoughts?

God bless,

GE


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#10
Travelingsarah

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, and I'm just looking for some people to communicate with more. I'm a travel agent who also loves to write. I'm the oldest of eight. I'm also disabled.. I went through some abuse growing up. I'm 38, still live with my parents. I would love to get married, I would love to find a guy to even get interested in. My friendship group is pretty much my church, and most people my age are married. It's a struggle, one I don't share much about because being as disabled as I am it's just weird and hard. I really don't know if it's God's will that I marry which is hard in and of itself... Anyway, homosexuality is a hard topic for me. Like I said, I went through some abuse growing up. And then I've had a friend that was bi, but was trying to follow the Lord.. Really not sure where she is now.. I'm confused about a lot of different things right now..


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#11
Hobbes

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How one can become a homosexual by worshipping the creature more than the Creator?

 

By ignoring His words below.

 

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

 

Feeding lust...feeding the eye... some sinners and even christians have gone over to the other side.

 

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

 

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

 

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

 

So it can happen to any one of us if we are so foolish to make provision for the flesh to fulfill the lust thereof and by sowing to the works of the flesh, we will reap corruption.

 

Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

 

Only by pointing others to our hope in Him can any sinner as well as a believer can hope to overcome.

 

1 John 5:1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him....4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?


Edited by Hobbes, 22 August 2014 - 07:46 PM.

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#12
terraricca

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, and I'm just looking for some people to communicate with more. I'm a travel agent who also loves to write. I'm the oldest of eight. I'm also disabled.. I went through some abuse growing up. I'm 38, still live with my parents. I would love to get married, I would love to find a guy to even get interested in. My friendship group is pretty much my church, and most people my age are married. It's a struggle, one I don't share much about because being as disabled as I am it's just weird and hard. I really don't know if it's God's will that I marry which is hard in and of itself... Anyway, homosexuality is a hard topic for me. Like I said, I went through some abuse growing up. And then I've had a friend that was bi, but was trying to follow the Lord.. Really not sure where she is now.. I'm confused about a lot of different things right now..

hi

 

the only thing i can tell you is this ;starting today trust God and his son ;and never look back pray to them for they can do what no one can ;i know for what they did for me ,God bless you


Edited by terraricca, 01 September 2014 - 01:39 PM.

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