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Views of Salvation, Eternity, and how they match up to Scripture?

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In a member mentioned different views of Christianity regarding salvation, eternal life, etc. How would you describe these views, how do they match up with Scripture, and where do you land on the various views?

 

The universal opportunity view

The postmortem evangelism view

The restrictivist view

The inclusivist view

God bless,

GE

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In a member mentioned different views of Christianity regarding salvation, eternal life, etc. How would you describe these views, how do they match up with Scripture, and where do you land on the various views?

 

The universal opportunity view

The postmortem evangelism view

The restrictivist view

The inclusivist view

God bless,

GE

There can be not be a discussion with death or about it.

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The postmortem evangelism view isn't about death, but the possibility of one being saved after death. Adherents point to such verses as 1 Peter 3:18-20:


For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.  After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water

 

For the record, I hold to the restrictivist view.

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The postmortem evangelism view isn't about death, but the possibility of one being saved after death. Adherents point to such verses as 1 Peter 3:18-20:

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.  After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water

 

For the record, I hold to the restrictivist view.

same here.

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The universal opportunity view

 

This one is quite strange IMO.

 

 

Universalism is the belief that everyone will be saved. There are many people today who hold to universal salvation and believe that all people eventually end up in heaven.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/universalism.html#ixzz356YNGJ11



 

 

 

Dr. Ken Allen from Auburn Universtiy said of Universalism that people usually equate the term with a belief that "’All religions are equally true, good, and that they all equally will lead to heaven, or to God.’ This definition of ‘Universalism’ could better be described as ‘Pluralist Universalism’ and could be equated with ‘secular humanism’.”

Thomas Whittmore (Jan. 1 1800 to March 21, 1861), who co-founded with Thomas J. Sawyer of New York the Universalist Historical Society and was an influential leader in the Universalist Church of America, stated about “Christian Universalism” that Universalists were "all persons, who truly believe in the eventual salvation of all mankind by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, are Universalists."

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The postmortem evangelism view isn't about death, but the possibility of one being saved after death. Adherents point to such verses as 1 Peter 3:18-20:

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.  After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water

 

For the record, I hold to the restrictivist view.

 

From a restrictivist view how does one respond to the claim about 1 Peter 3:18-20?

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The universal opportunity view

 

This one is quite strange IMO.

 

 

Universalism is the belief that everyone will be saved. There are many people today who hold to universal salvation and believe that all people eventually end up in heaven.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/universalism.html#ixzz356YNGJ11



 

 

 

Dr. Ken Allen from Auburn Universtiy said of Universalism that people usually equate the term with a belief that "’All religions are equally true, good, and that they all equally will lead to heaven, or to God.’ This definition of ‘Universalism’ could better be described as ‘Pluralist Universalism’ and could be equated with ‘secular humanism’.”

Thomas Whittmore (Jan. 1 1800 to March 21, 1861), who co-founded with Thomas J. Sawyer of New York the Universalist Historical Society and was an influential leader in the Universalist Church of America, stated about “Christian Universalism” that Universalists were "all persons, who truly believe in the eventual salvation of all mankind by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, are Universalists."

 

 

From what I have read, Universal Opportunity has some differences with Universalism.

 

Universal Opportunity say that those who have not accepted salvation thru Jesus will receive a vision at the time of death, and are able to choose at that time.

Universalism says that all will eventually be accepted into heaven at some time after death.

 

Universal Opportunity seen thru the view of Exclusivism is where I would land. If scripture says that God does NOT want anyone to perish.

 

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

 

Matthew 18:13 If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. 14 So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.

 

Balanced against the fact that unless a person repents, believes on Jesus, they will perish/die in their sins. So, what of the person who lives in an area where there is no one to share the gospel. Will they perish for lack of a witness, who otherwise had they heard would have accepted Jesus?  God is not entirely dependent on us to share the gospel. Creations show the works of God, and God is able to give dreams and visions. God is able to somehow make sure a person whom God knows is willing, hears, see's, dreams, finds the gospel. To me, that is a form of Universal Opportunity from within the view of Exclusivism.

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The postmortem evangelism view isn't about death, but the possibility of one being saved after death. Adherents point to such verses as 1 Peter 3:18-20:

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.  After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water

 

For the record, I hold to the restrictivist view.

 

From a restrictivist view how does one respond to the claim about 1 Peter 3:18-20?

 

He didn't preach the Gospel of salvation to them.  The text doesn't tell us what His message was specifically, but we can rule out the notion that they were getting an opportunity to be saved.  

 

The word used for "preach" is the word kerusso which means to make a proclamation.  It is not the word euangelo which means to preach the Gospel.  He is proclaiming His triumph.

 

These are not human souls He preached to.  The word spirit is used to refer to angels when the correct, qualifying genitive in Greek isn't present. So these can't be people. They are fallen angels.  Angels are outside the purview of redemption.  Jesus didn't die for angels, so there is simply no way this can be used to argue that people have a second chance after death.  These are antediluvian evil spirits, fallen angels, demons and they are in prison and they are awaiting their final doom.  Jesus proclaimed his triumph over death, over sin and over Satan himself.   He proclaimed, for all intents and purposes that the war between Satan and God was decided at the cross, and Satan lost. Satan's final full defeat is inevitable.  He let the demons that are in prison know that the war between God and the demons who are not in prison has been decided and they will be ultimately defeated.

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What is the restrictivitst view and what are Scriptures to support it?

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What is the restrictivitst view and what are Scriptures to support it?

The restrictivist view is that only those who make conscious confession of faith in Jesus as a response to the Gospel are saved.  One must have an actual knowledge of Jesus and who He is as revealed in the New Testament in order to make a conscious decision to accept Jesus as Savior and Lord. (John 14:6; 17:3; Acts, 4:12; Rom. 1:16; 1 John. 1:1-10; 5:1-5)

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What is the restrictivitst view and what are Scriptures to support it?

 

The restrictivist view holds that only those who have made a conscience decision in this life to believe and follow Christ will be saved. All others will be judged on what they understand about the Gospel, or what they should have understood about the Gospel.  This is the most narrow and conservative view on the fate of the unevangelized. Nevertheless, it does seem to best parallel Jesus’ teachings. For example, Jesus declared, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (Jn. 14:6). Exclusivity is undeniably a factor in the salvation that God offers the world through His son. St. Peter echoes this fact in Acts 4:12, “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” It is very clear that a belief in Jesus is a prerequisite for salvation.

 

(taken from a paper I wrote some time ago)

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Jesus made it very clear in the following verse who it is that will be in Heaven with God.  Only those who do the will of the Father in Heaven will enter God’s kingdom.  The will of the Father is to hear, and obey our lord Jesus Christ.

(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven.  When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’  Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

Edited by Johnlove
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Jesus made it very clear in the following verse who it is that will be in Heaven with God.  Only those who do the will of the Father in Heaven will enter God’s kingdom.  The will of the Father is to hear, and obey our lord Jesus Christ.

(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven.  When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’  Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

 

~

 

The Will Of The Father

 

For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:40 (NIV)

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What is the restrictivitst view and what are Scriptures to support it?

 

~

 

God

 

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

 

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:13-14

 

Knows

 

Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:47

 

See

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

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 And a cloud came, covering them in shadow; and from the cloud there came a voice, 'This is my Son, the Beloved. Listen to him.'
God the Father told the apostles to listen to Jesus, and one may not believe that means obey.  The following verse tells us that the only way one will ever enter the kingdom of God is to obey what Jesus taught.

(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven.  When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’  Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”


Edited by Johnlove
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What is the inclusivist view?

 

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What is the inclusivist view?

 

Adherents believe that God will judge mankind by their heart, not their head. In simple terms, if one does what is Christlike, whether they know Him explicitly or not, they will be judged on this basis. They hold that Christ is the only way to heaven but one doesn’t necessarily have to know Him to be saved. If one does what is right, it shows the state of their heart. They support this view by pointing to Verses such as Romans 2:14-16. People will be judged, according to adherents, on the light they have received, not necessarily what know about Jesus Christ.

 

My source for this info:

 

Boyd, Gregory A., and Paul R. Eddy. Across the Spectrum: Understanding Issues in Evangelical Theology. 2 edition. Grand Rapids, Mich: Baker Academic, 2009.

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In a member mentioned different views of Christianity regarding salvation, eternal life, etc. How would you describe these views, how do they match up with Scripture, and where do you land on the various views?

 

The universal opportunity view

The postmortem evangelism view

The restrictivist view

The inclusivist view

God bless,

GE

 

Since such views are ideas from men's traditions loosely based on God's Word, why even consider them? One of the most important things for the Christian to learn, especially in our day, is how some men love to apply secularist types of thinking they learned in some school with thinking that will open God's Truth in His Word, i.e., like some secret formula. In reality God's Word is simple but at the same time requires one to be disciplined it It in order to come to The Truth upon receiving understanding by The Holy Spirit. No one will understand It without God's direct help through His Son by The Holy Spirit.

 

This is why our Lord Jesus in John 10 warned us about the "hireling" among His sheep. There are many preachers that are hirelings, because they don't own the sheep, those instead preach for wheat and barley (money), treating it like a job or business, making a living. Our Lord Jesus is comparing this to a shepherd that is paid hire, so when the wolves come the hireling flees and leaves the sheep to the wolves, since they aren't really his sheep.

 

Since those hirelings exist on that level, what about the schools that train them up to treat that office like a business? Are not those who train them responsible too? Yes, they are, even though many of them would deny it. This is how and why the hirelings keep creating their own religious doctrinal language in some seminaries; it's just another way of doing business like a hireling.

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Since such views are ideas from men's traditions loosely based on God's Word, why even consider them?

 

 

The alternative is to choose to be ignorant of major views held by Christians historically around the world. The value in considering different viewpoints is simply to have an examined Christian worldview. You should know what you believe and be able to support it. If you find, however, that you can't support your viewpoint from a Biblical perspective, then there is great value in that alone.

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Since such views are ideas from men's traditions loosely based on God's Word, why even consider them?

 

 

The alternative is to choose to be ignorant of major views held by Christians historically around the world. The value in considering different viewpoints is simply to have an examined Christian worldview. You should know what you believe and be able to support it. If you find, however, that you can't support your viewpoint from a Biblical perspective, then there is great value in that alone.

 

 

Very well said KC02. :thumbsup:

Perhaps one of the issues we face as the Church today is we're too scared to think outside of the little box that is our lives. We need to evaluate ideas based on Scripture. And when people present ideas that are contrary to Scripture we should be familiar enough with the Bible to share with them the truth as the Holy Spirit leads. :)

God bless,

GE

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Since such views are ideas from men's traditions loosely based on God's Word, why even consider them?

 

 

The alternative is to choose to be ignorant of major views held by Christians historically around the world. The value in considering different viewpoints is simply to have an examined Christian worldview. You should know what you believe and be able to support it. If you find, however, that you can't support your viewpoint from a Biblical perspective, then there is great value in that alone.

 

 

An "examined Christian worldview"???

 

Is that something our Heavenly Father came up with in His Word? No. It's an idea of man.

 

Men's doctrines are tethers, a rope that ties an animal down so it cannot reach past the length of rope.

 

If the believer stays within God's Word as written, they will have no need... to converse using men's doctrines, for they will already know the difference between man playing religion vs. the real Truth in God's Word. I know children that are more disciplined in God's Word than many of those men who are constantly searching for God's Truth but can never quite come to It because of all the tethers they create upon their own thinking.

 

But if one loves men's shackles instead the simplicity of God's Holy Writ, then I say go to if that's what one wants.

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An "examined Christian worldview"???

 

Is that something our Heavenly Father came up with in His Word? No. It's an idea of man.

 

Men's doctrines are tethers, a rope that ties an animal down so it cannot reach past the length of rope.

 

If the believer stays within God's Word as written, they will have no need... to converse using men's doctrines, for they will already know the difference between man playing religion vs. the real Truth in God's Word. I know children that are more disciplined in God's Word than many of those men who are constantly searching for God's Truth but can never quite come to It because of all the tethers they create upon their own thinking.

 

But if one loves men's shackles instead the simplicity of God's Holy Writ, then I say go to if that's what one wants.

 

 

Wow you get wound up easily. This is just a discussion that has been going on for 2,000 years (at least) and there is something to be learned from it. If you feel that you have all of the answers and know everything, then you are only deceiving yourself. I don't know how you learn anything with that kind of attitude. That's all. I'm not arguing with you anymore. If you don't want to join in this discussion, then just ignore this thread please.

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Wow you get wound up easily. This is just a discussion that has been going on for 2,000 years (at least) and there is something to be learned from it. If you feel that you have all of the answers and know everything, then you are only deceiving yourself. I don't know how you learn anything with that kind of attitude. That's all. I'm not arguing with you anymore. If you don't want to join in this discussion, then just ignore this thread please.

 

 

Guess I got my point across then, because I was offering an answer to the OP's question regarding those doctrines of men compared with Scripture, i.e., they do not compare with Scripture, because they are ideas from men instead.

 

If that steps on toes of some here because they like those tethers of men, then so be it. God's Holy Writ isn't something to play around with, not if one wants to know His Truth as written. That's my point, it's a valid one, and it has nothing to do with some idea of claiming to have all the answers, because God's Holy Writ has all... the answers, men's doctrines do not.

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I believe it is easily understood that the restrictivist view has been clearly determined in God's

Word as the way for eternal life... I love the way The Lord has designed us to search for Him in

His Word and the meditation of truth against lie forming in us the Spiritually designed path to

Him... If one really thinks about Life as God teaches us and then examines the lies that come

against that truth it really forms another dimension to the mind so that we become alien to this

place! It begins with foundation or platform of God, Who in our beginning, formed us restrictively

with a corporeal starting point as we are told by The Creator had no such. He 'IS' Spirit with no

begin and end and all that He created was not a law unto Himself but a careful design of His pleasure

to teach us about Himself by the begin we are... lie is a destructive format of Life in God as it

present a false alternative that does not exist! In all the eternity, of thought producing reason into

action, lie has no substance of God and in this present corporeal we have given over to satan the

dominion we were given by God... So now by our own limited begin in a corporeal status we make it

everything and God nothing for it yields to our sensual persuasions but God does not and in this

restrictive environment God came into to build a pathway out of this mess to a perfect conclusion

of eternity with Him unrestricted... Love, Steven

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Guess I got my point across then, because I was offering an answer to the OP's question regarding those doctrines of men compared with Scripture, i.e., they do not compare with Scripture, because they are ideas from men instead.

 

 

That is fair enough, Salty. Keep in mind that the Scriptures must be interpreted. Christians around the world see things a little differently. The underlying questions is "What is the fate of the unevangelized?" You can't simply dismiss all of the discussion that has taken place since the beginning of time. One of these viewpoints is correct, or at least closer to the truth than the others. The Bible isn't absolutely explicit on this matter as you make it out to be. They also aren't merely the "ideas from men" but refined interpretations of the Scriptures.

 

If you want to further the discussion, tell us where you stand on the issue. It's an important question.

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