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Can a Christian swayed so far in losing the Holy Spirit ?

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#1
layhoma

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There is this lady in my friend's work place that claimed to be a Christian, being baptized many years ago but seldom goes to church anymore. Just given her the benefit of the doubt that she once shown fruits of the spirit in the past, and now turned aggressive, hostile, controlling, jealousy, insecurity, abusiveness and harassing toward her co-workers for the purpose to discredit and mentally destroy them to serve her own selfish ends.

These evil behaviors no doubt are manifestation of the foul spirits inside this person. One of the victims happens to be my close friend who is a devoted Christian who is now in agony and dismay. It makes more sense since any true Christians in hostile territory would be assaulted by the enemies. Anyway,

Back to the topic, and based from these facts, what do you make of it? Most would probably say she never was a faithful servant to begin with. Think outside the box for a second, could one actually lose the Holy Spirit when the rebellious nature of that person goes beyond a certain threshold ?

#2
FresnoJoe

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Praying~!

#3
Leonard

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I'm sure your friend should pray this woman comes back to the Lord; that is why God sent her to that place.

#4
gdemoss

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A common misconception is that a person who has the Holy Spirit cannot spiritually fornicate/adulterate with an unholy one. Our bodies are spiritual tabernacle/temples. A single body can hold at least 2000 spirits at once according to Legion. To say that Gods spirit and an unholy spirit cannot occupy the same space is flawed logic as they do in the firmament of heaven above the earth. Although this woman may have been a partaker of the Holy Spirit at a time she obviously is trusting in unholy ones today. Will God ever take his Spirit out of a person after he has given it unto them? I believe so. Just as his spirit left the physical temple in the OT before it was destroyed. There is coming a day in the near future where he will remove his spirit from those who are disobedient and then they will turn and kill one another as he will no longer be restraining them. Unfortunate but true.

Gary

#5
layhoma

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I'm sure your friend should pray this woman comes back to the Lord; that is why God sent her to that place.


Yes indeed she has and she past that stage long ago. Unlike King David listened & repented when the Lord sends him a messenger this lost soul smirked it away and has a new punching bag where she could further ridicule the Lord's servant.

#6
Fez

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Actually she could be a saved Christian and still be acting like she is.

How many times have one of us lost it completely, anger wise, or frustration wise. I know some pretty mean Christians, which does not mean they are not saved, but means they are relying on themselves to survive, and not God.

It's a different place in our walk for most of us.

She, and your friend need prayer.

#7
layhoma

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A common misconception is that a person who has the Holy Spirit cannot spiritually fornicate/adulterate with an unholy one. Our bodies are spiritual tabernacle/temples. A single body can hold at least 2000 spirits at once according to Legion. To say that Gods spirit and an unholy spirit cannot occupy the same space is flawed logic as they do in the firmament of heaven above the earth. Although this woman may have been a partaker of the Holy Spirit at a time she obviously is trusting in unholy ones today. Will God ever take his Spirit out of a person after he has given it unto them? I believe so. Just as his spirit left the physical temple in the OT before it was destroyed. There is coming a day in the near future where he will remove his spirit from those who are disobedient and then they will turn and kill one another as he will no longer be restraining them. Unfortunate but true.

Gary


I agree with you totally. Your view as well as mine are of the minority of Christians. Majority believes that a vessel (Body) can't have the Holy Spirit coexist with an evil spirit. When one rationalize a vessel one only sees it as an object, 3 dimensional at best and has little knowledge how complex the spiritual realm is. When dealing with principalities of the air but not of the flesh, there are rules that are not explained thoroughly in the scriptures.

My brother in Christ is part of the healing and deliverance ministry and it would surprise skeptics how many Christians are under the bondage of evil spirits in their lives without awareness of their existence. Many testimonies from people who have taken the course came out a renewed person.

eg. When a believer lives in fear, there is a chance that the spirit of fear is affecting that individual. The bible clearly states that as heirs to the Lord we shouldn't have fear but faith. Anything contrary to the fruits of the spirit is not of God. So why some people live in fear most of their Christian lives? Some may deny spiritual possession. Some may acknowledge spiritual oppression. But I think otherwise. I'll just leave it at that.

As much as I would like the idea that the Holy Spirit is stayed for good once given, there are times when I must think again when I see professed church going Christians demonstrate some of the most evil acts even most unbelievers are incapable of doing. As my original post shared an incident where a Christian is capable of prosecuting another Christian in the work place through verbal abuses, blatant harassment and conniving office politics just to eliminate competitors. A Christian who consistently prosecute other sisters in Chirst without remorse or not even having the slightest conviction from the Holy Spirit, I presumed the perpetrator has relinquished God's gift (Holy Spirit) when she has stopped listening to that inner voice and shelved it somewhere in the basement compartment in the heart. Using a crude metaphor, one invite the Holy Spirit in because one answer the door when Jesus knocked, but one could also invite the Holy Spirit out when He is not welcome or needed anymore. (Could this be blaspheming of the Holy Spirit Jesus talked about ?!) That said, her acts of rebellion has invited in other evil spirits or counterfeit spirits that are wrecking havoc in her life as well as other peoples lives.

Edited by layhoma, 08 October 2012 - 04:42 AM.


#8
layhoma

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Actually she could be a saved Christian and still be acting like she is.

How many times have one of us lost it completely, anger wise, or frustration wise. I know some pretty mean Christians, which does not mean they are not saved, but means they are relying on themselves to survive, and not God.

It's a different place in our walk for most of us.

She, and your friend need prayer.


Amen. They do need prayers ! Yes before I was saved I was very reckless, self-absorbed and a typical sinner that has little conscience of right from wrong. After Jesus found me he fed me with milk. I grow and become and take up more responsibilities as a meat fed Christian. Do I lose my tempers occasionally? yes Do I covet sometimes? yes Do I act out in anger? Yes. But there are boundaries a true Christian shouldn't cross. Not because afraid of losing their salvation, but because giving into or exposing to certain emotions or temptations one could open doors that invite in evil spirits in their lives. You start compulsively watching porn, you would invite the spirit of lust in your heart, you continue to burst in rage you would invite the spirit of anger,...etc

Scripture clearly teaches us that the real issues of life are spiritual and are really matters of the heart, the inner man.

Proverb 4:23 Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life

#9
Leonard

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I'm sure your friend should pray this woman comes back to the Lord; that is why God sent her to that place.


Yes indeed she has and she past that stage long ago. Unlike King David listened & repented when the Lord sends him a messenger this lost soul smirked it away and has a new punching bag where she could further ridicule the Lord's servant.


'This parable Jesus spoke to teach men that they should pray and faint not.............'

#10
Javafiend

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I doubt such a person was ever baptized in the spirit. There are theologies out there that say all because you believe you are baptized in spirit, or because you were baptized by water you are baptized by spirit. The spirit just brings too great a change in a person.



#11
Sevenseas

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My concern here apart from the questions regarding the difficult person at work, is for your friend

She needs to pray against the attacks and FOR the attacker.....she should not be in agony and dismay...we are
not wrestling against flesh and blood...she should deal with and not just react

I know that's easy to say, but we should not just react. That, is not a by product of the Holy Spirit

Not judging or condemning here...but I think some action should be taken that results in yr friend being ON TOP of the situation and
not under it

ps: perhaps the difficult person is ALSO under some kind of attack? Don't vilify the flesh...again, not flesh and blood
that is the enemy...pray FOR this person...perhaps that could resolve the whole thing

#12
layhoma

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My concern here apart from the questions regarding the difficult person at work, is for your friend

She needs to pray against the attacks and FOR the attacker.....she should not be in agony and dismay...we are
not wrestling against flesh and blood...she should deal with and not just react

I know that's easy to say, but we should not just react. That, is not a by product of the Holy Spirit

Not judging or condemning here...but I think some action should be taken that results in yr friend being ON TOP of the situation and
not under it

ps: perhaps the difficult person is ALSO under some kind of attack? Don't vilify the flesh...again, not flesh and blood
that is the enemy...pray FOR this person...perhaps that could resolve the whole thing


Bless you sevenseas, my friend is doing just that. Perhaps it's God's will to place her in such predicament where she may grow and accept and love thy enemies. And yes she has been praying for the abusers. I have a prayer thread hoisted in the request prayer forum devoted to her cause. If you would want to know about the testimony of a follower of Christ in real time spiritual warfare, please click this link for a quick browse. The on going infliction by the enemy on her may make you weep. For I have been shedding tears for her in the past 6 weeks.

http://www.worthychr...-prayers-again/

The reason why I posted this topic is because I'm starting to wonder about Matthew 7:21-23 I am not judging. I'm trying to use my discernment as a Christian what the Lord is teaching me throughout my friend's ordeal.


Matthew 7:21. Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Edited by layhoma, 08 October 2012 - 02:18 PM.


#13
Sevenseas

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There is no worker's union here in Hong Kong and the law concerning harassment issues is only at it's infant stage. Suffice to say Bonny is a PA for a very powerful person in a huge listed company. Power struggle among her teammates is cutthroat. She could report this abuse to her employer but that would be like rattling the hornet's nest. There is nothing humanly possible she could do her job unless God intervene in a miraculous way or God would provide a way for a clean exit.



I did not know this was happening in China...I understand better now.

Oh my...yes, will pray

#14
GoldenEagle

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The reason why I posted this topic is because I'm starting to wonder about Matthew 7:21-23 I am not judging. I'm trying to use my discernment as a Christian what the Lord is teaching me throughout my friend's ordeal.


Matthew 7:21. Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'


This is an excellent question as to the OP’s thread title. I have a close friend who claimed Christ and even served as a missionary in a very difficult part of the world for nearly 7 years. In the past year he has denied Christ and adopted a very different view of God – claiming a form of mystic Judaism. His wife has followed him in this. They are now teaching their two children this errant doctrine as well. This caused a crisis of faith that has drawn me closer to God.

I will pray for you and your friend. I will also pray for the person who is doing the persecuting. God bless you!

In Christ,
Eagle

#15
rjp34652

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There is this lady in my friend's work place that claimed to be a Christian, being baptized many years ago but seldom goes to church anymore. Just given her the benefit of the doubt that she once shown fruits of the spirit in the past, and now turned aggressive, hostile, controlling, jealousy, insecurity, abusiveness and harassing toward her co-workers for the purpose to discredit and mentally destroy them to serve her own selfish ends.

These evil behaviors no doubt are manifestation of the foul spirits inside this person. One of the victims happens to be my close friend who is a devoted Christian who is now in agony and dismay. It makes more sense since any true Christians in hostile territory would be assaulted by the enemies. Anyway,

Back to the topic, and based from these facts, what do you make of it? Most would probably say she never was a faithful servant to begin with. Think outside the box for a second, could one actually lose the Holy Spirit when the rebellious nature of that person goes beyond a certain threshold ?


I had a room mate in college who was a Christian. At the same time he was not a nice person and that's putting it mildly. He was the sort of person that if you saw him coming you'd cross the street so that you didn't have to talk to him or acknowledge him. Yet the Lord showed me that he was indeed a Christian.

Is this woman in your post really a Christian? If she says she is, then who are we to question her relationship with the Lord? Is she acting like a Christian? Obviously not. There are no fruits of the spirit and by all indications the woman is fulfilling the cultural stereotype of a feminazi.

A very old man once told me that as women get older they become more like men - being aggressive and looking for a fight all the time. Who wants that?
He also said this is one reason older men are attracted to young women - the girls still possess feminine charm. Who can resist that?

The older I get the more I find his words to be true.

I have also learned something else, that God is able to defend His flock. Over and over in my own life I have found that God is able to level the playing field. He does well at that, very well. Prayer works and is an effective remedy if its employed.

Back to the original question - is the woman a Christian? The onus is on her is it not? It's her life and her spiritual motivations - or not.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

#16
DiscipleDave777

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The Holy Ghost will only be grieved for so long, before it is not welcome in the house in which it lives. Sin grieves the Holy Ghost.

^i^

#17
Fez

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A common misconception is that a person who has the Holy Spirit cannot spiritually fornicate/adulterate with an unholy one. Our bodies are spiritual tabernacle/temples. A single body can hold at least 2000 spirits at once according to Legion. To say that Gods spirit and an unholy spirit cannot occupy the same space is flawed logic as they do in the firmament of heaven above the earth. Although this woman may have been a partaker of the Holy Spirit at a time she obviously is trusting in unholy ones today. Will God ever take his Spirit out of a person after he has given it unto them? I believe so. Just as his spirit left the physical temple in the OT before it was destroyed. There is coming a day in the near future where he will remove his spirit from those who are disobedient and then they will turn and kill one another as he will no longer be restraining them. Unfortunate but true.

Gary


That's a great explanation and probably the best explanation of spiritual warfare I've read. Short, concise, and straightforward.

A single body can hold at least 2000 spirits at once according to Legion


Without asking too many questions about your post just yet Gary, can you tell me how you arrive at this figure?

#18
Guest_man_*

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A single body can hold at least 2000 spirits at once according to Legion


Without asking too many questions about your post just yet Gary, can you tell me how you arrive at this figure?



The short version.


Mark 5
9 Then He asked him, “What is your name?”
And he answered, saying, “My name is Legion; for we are many.”
10 Also he begged Him earnestly that He would not send them out of the country.
11 Now a large herd of swine was feeding there near the mountains.
12 So all the demons begged Him, saying, “Send us to the swine, that we may enter them.”
13 And at once Jesus gave them permission. Then the unclean spirits went out and entered the swine (there were about two thousand); and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and drowned in the sea.

#19
Fez

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A single body can hold at least 2000 spirits at once according to Legion


Without asking too many questions about your post just yet Gary, can you tell me how you arrive at this figure?



The short version.


Mark 5
9 Then He asked him, “What is your name?”
And he answered, saying, “My name is Legion; for we are many.”
10 Also he begged Him earnestly that He would not send them out of the country.
11 Now a large herd of swine was feeding there near the mountains.
12 So all the demons begged Him, saying, “Send us to the swine, that we may enter them.”
13 And at once Jesus gave them permission. Then the unclean spirits went out and entered the swine (there were about two thousand); and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and drowned in the sea.

Thanks I missed that :thumbsup:

#20
bornagain2011

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I don't believe a demon could live in a holy temple. I believe that christians could be under the influence of demons, but not posessed by them. I am filled with the Holy spirit, there is no room for a demon spirit.




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