Jump to content

christian forums

Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Forums

Welcome to Worthy Christian Forums
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Israel's Promise and Being Grafted In...

* * * * * 2 votes Israel Grafted In Christians

  • Please log in to reply
54 replies to this topic

#41
nebula

nebula

    Royal Member

  • Worthy Watchman
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 56,992 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Central Maryland
  • Interests:Worship dance
    Outdoors
    Earth and Space Science

Another problem may be due to misunderstanding what "chosen" means.


Right. To borrow a quote -

"But Anakin Skywalker was the "chosen one", and look at what happened to him!"

Being "chosen" isn't always the best place to be. :vader:
  • 1

#42
Guest_ninhao_*

Guest_ninhao_*
  • Guests

I. First what is a Biblical Covenant?

A Biblical Covenant is an agreement between God and humanity recorded in the text of the Bible. [ /quote]


II. Second what are the three primary Covenants in the Bible?

A. Abrahamic Covenant: – Gen. 12, 15, & 17 (New Covenant)

1. Who was it given to?
Exclusively to Abraham and his descendents through Jesse (Is. 11:1-2). All the families of the earth would be blessed by this covenant. (Gen. 12:3)

2. What was the promise?
God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth.

Gen. 12:1-3
Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.


It is important to note that this covenant was unconditional. It is explained that Abraham was looking for a better, heavenly land who’s builder is God. (Heb 11:8-16) This seed was Jesus Christ. (Gal. 3:16)

3. To who or did/does the promise apply?
All of Abraham’s descendents and those adopted as children of Abraham into God’s family through the price paid at the cross Jesus Christ and His resurrection. (Gen. 17:17, Gal. 3:7, 26-29)

4. How long would it last?
It is an everlasting covenant. (Gen. 13:15) It is not replaced by any later covenant. (Gen. 17:17) It was to replace the Mosaic Covenant. (Heb. 8:13)

5. Who was the mediator between God and Mankind?
Jesus. (Gal. 3:7, 1 Tim. 2:5)

6. How does it work?
Again, this New Covenant could not be broken and was unconditional. The focus is on God’s grace and mercy. Make no mistake – salvation is absolutely free to mankind (John 3:16) but extremely costly to God (1 Jo. 4:9, Rom. 5:8 - His Son Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross). Abraham accepted by faith God’s promise. So this covenant is based on faith in God’s promises. "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.” (Gen. 15:6) Jesus Christ who was Messiah foretold (Gen. 12:3, Dan. 7:13, Is. 7:14, Is. 9:6) in the OT died for all people that all should no longer live for themselves but for God through Jesus Christ. (2 Cor. 5:14-15) God revealed that those who Believed in Jesus Christ would be grafted into the promise made to Israel. (Rom. 1:16) The Uncircumcised (Gentiles - (Eph 2: 11) are now a part of the Circumcision (God’s chosen people of promise - Israel) through Christ’s atonement sacrifice of blood (and his life) for our sins at the cross (Eph 2: 13).

Jesus didn’t abolish the law but instead to fulfill the law. When Christ gave the summary of the law (Matt. 22:36-40), Jesus didn't do away with it. Jesus said specifically that on all the rest of law and the prophets depend on the two great commandments (Love God, Love people). He got to the heart of the issue - motivation and inner transformation. (Rom. 12:2)

Matt. 5:17
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

7. What is the sign of this covenant?
Circumcision was the outward sign of Israel (Gen. 17:10) but physical circumcision had to be matched with circumcision of the heart or the internal sign. (Deut. 30:6, Jer. 4:4) Christians lives are the testimony to God’s grace – a sweet aroma or fragrance of gratefulness to God. (2 Cor. 2:15) Jesus Christ’s sacrificial love is the standard. (Matt. 22:36-40 - Love God, Love people; John 15:13; 1 Cor. 13)


Hello GE,

It is also interesting that only God "signed" the Abrahamic covenant in a ceremony that resembles an oath in blood where the party that breaks it will forfeit his life. I think this is correct. So basically God staked His life on this covenant and we know this is the strongest possible seal.

Gen 15:12-17 KJV And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. (13) And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; (14) And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. (15) And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. (16) But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. (17) And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

God swore this covenant upon Himself.

Heb 6:13 KJV For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
  • 1

#43
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,501 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Jesus, The Bible, Family, Discipleship, Friends, Israel, Movies


All:
I think a key distinction to make in this thread is everything exists for God. Not the other way around. The Church exists to bring honor to God. Israel exists to bring honor to God. Do you agree?

We are not the main character in God’s play of history, present, and future. God is the main character. Do you agree?

God bless,
GE

You are exactly right. Another problem may be due to misunderstanding what "chosen" means. Some people think chosen means "favorite." The use of chosen in regard to Israel means that they are selected to fulfill a purpose, namely to be a light to the world. They will fulfill that purpose before it's all over.


I agree Shiloh. :thumbsup: God's not done with Israel yet. Chosen doesn't necessarily mean favorite.

Yes, and that's the problem with RT. The focus is on the Church.


I agree Matthitjah. :thumbsup: We should keep our focus on God and His glory. Not on the Bride of Christ.
  • 1

#44
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,501 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Jesus, The Bible, Family, Discipleship, Friends, Israel, Movies


Another problem may be due to misunderstanding what "chosen" means.


Right. To borrow a quote -

"But Anakin Skywalker was the "chosen one", and look at what happened to him!"

Being "chosen" isn't always the best place to be. :vader:


Lol too funny Neb. ;)
  • 1

#45
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,501 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Jesus, The Bible, Family, Discipleship, Friends, Israel, Movies

Hello GE,

It is also interesting that only God "signed" the Abrahamic covenant in a ceremony that resembles an oath in blood where the party that breaks it will forfeit his life. I think this is correct. So basically God staked His life on this covenant and we know this is the strongest possible seal.

Gen 15:12-17 KJV And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. (13) And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; (14) And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. (15) And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. (16) But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. (17) And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

God swore this covenant upon Himself.

Heb 6:13 KJV For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,


True Ninhao. God swore the covenant upon Himself. And yet God gave his firstborn for the redemption of humanity. Amazing love isn't it?

Great thoughts and additions! ;)

God bless,
GE
  • 1

#46
larryt

larryt

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,676 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Edmonds, WA
  • Interests:Talking to others about the Lord Jesus Christ<br>Earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the saints.



If other people would like to comment Larry there is really no reason to stop them. This is a discussion thread open to anyone after all. But I see your point. There is no rule that states that one must reply to others comments. So… Here we go.

1. Let’s start at the beginning. How do we define a Covenant? What are the Covenants that God has established?

2. How do we define what is a promise? We know God fulfills but does God break His promises?

3. Replacement Theology: The concept that the Church (Body of Christ) has replaced Israel. There is a specific thread about this here where shiloh357 explains it a lot better I believe than I could: http://www.worthychr...ement-theology/

Coming back to the beginning and your question on covenants and promises. I would like to know what you think I already know what shiloh thinks on this and if he can restrain himself and let you answer for yourself I would appreciate it.

Question: Are all, and I do mean all, the promises and covenants fulfilled in Jesus Christ? Yes or no will suffice.

Grace & Peace
LT


I'm glad we revisited this LarryT. To answer the question in bold we need to know what we're talking about - terms must be defined. It seems apparent to me that I'm going to anwer my own questions... So what do I think? First what are Covenants?

The Three Covenants I will mention that are relevant to our discussion...

I. First what is a Biblical Covenant?

A Biblical Covenant is an agreement between God and humanity recorded in the text of the Bible.

II. Second what are the three primary Covenants in the Bible?

A. Abrahamic Covenant: – Gen. 12, 15, & 17 (New Covenant)

1. Who was it given to?
Exclusively to Abraham and his descendents through Jesse (Is. 11:1-2). All the families of the earth would be blessed by this covenant. (Gen. 12:3)

2. What was the promise?
God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth.

Gen. 12:1-3
Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.


It is important to note that this covenant was unconditional. It is explained that Abraham was looking for a better, heavenly land who’s builder is God. (Heb 11:8-16) This seed was Jesus Christ. (Gal. 3:16)

3. To who or did/does the promise apply?
All of Abraham’s descendents and those adopted as children of Abraham into God’s family through the price paid at the cross Jesus Christ and His resurrection. (Gen. 17:17, Gal. 3:7, 26-29)

4. How long would it last?
It is an everlasting covenant. (Gen. 13:15) It is not replaced by any later covenant. (Gen. 17:17) It was to replace the Mosaic Covenant. (Heb. 8:13)

5. Who was the mediator between God and Mankind?
Jesus. (Gal. 3:7, 1 Tim. 2:5)

6. How does it work?
Again, this New Covenant could not be broken and was unconditional. The focus is on God’s grace and mercy. Make no mistake – salvation is absolutely free to mankind (John 3:16) but extremely costly to God (1 Jo. 4:9, Rom. 5:8 - His Son Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross). Abraham accepted by faith God’s promise. So this covenant is based on faith in God’s promises. "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.” (Gen. 15:6) Jesus Christ who was Messiah foretold (Gen. 12:3, Dan. 7:13, Is. 7:14, Is. 9:6) in the OT died for all people that all should no longer live for themselves but for God through Jesus Christ. (2 Cor. 5:14-15) God revealed that those who Believed in Jesus Christ would be grafted into the promise made to Israel. (Rom. 1:16) The Uncircumcised (Gentiles - (Eph 2: 11) are now a part of the Circumcision (God’s chosen people of promise - Israel) through Christ’s atonement sacrifice of blood (and his life) for our sins at the cross (Eph 2: 13).

Jesus didn’t abolish the law but instead to fulfill the law. When Christ gave the summary of the law (Matt. 22:36-40), Jesus didn't do away with it. Jesus said specifically that on all the rest of law and the prophets depend on the two great commandments (Love God, Love people). He got to the heart of the issue - motivation and inner transformation. (Rom. 12:2)

Matt. 5:17
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

7. What is the sign of this covenant?
Circumcision was the outward sign of Israel (Gen. 17:10) but physical circumcision had to be matched with circumcision of the heart or the internal sign. (Deut. 30:6, Jer. 4:4) Christians lives are the testimony to God’s grace – a sweet aroma or fragrance of gratefulness to God. (2 Cor. 2:15) Jesus Christ’s sacrificial love is the standard. (Matt. 22:36-40 - Love God, Love people; John 15:13; 1 Cor. 13)


B. Mosaic Covenant: Exodus 19-24 (Old Covenant)

1. Who was it given to?
Moses and the children of Israel at Mt. Sinai. (Ex. 19:2)

2. What was the promise?
This covenant is a conditional (If Israel obeyed, then God would bless them) covenant.

“Then Moses went up to God, and the LORD called to him from the mountain and said, “This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.” (Ex. 19:3-6)

3. To who does or did the promise apply?
This applied to the people of Israel. (Ex. 19:3-4)

4. How long would it last?
The Mosaic Covenant was a temporary, conditional covenant (Ex. 19:5-6), and was broken by Israel. The Mosaic Covenant was to end with the coming of the Messiah. This covenant was completed in and through Jesus Christ. (Lev 6:1-39, Deut. 28, Mal. 3:5.)

5. Who was the mediator between God and Mankind?
Moses. (Ex. 19:3-4) Moses says “We will do it all.” (Ex. 19:8)

6. How does it or did it work?
This Mosaic Covenant was to end with Christ. (Heb. 8:13) The focus is on God’s holiness (A consuming fire – Ex. 24:17) and mankind’s need of a true mediator in Messiah – Jesus Christ. Moses was the mediator between God and mankind. Israel was to obey all the law as set forth in the 10 commandments on tablets of stone. (Ex. 24:17) Moses was delayed so the people fell into idolatry by making a golden calf to worship. (Ex. 32:1-6) Moses broke the first tablets when he got mad at Israel for following after idols. (Ex. 32:19-20) Moses goes back up to Mt. Sinai so God can write His laws upon the tablets of stone. (Ex. 34:1-2)

The Mosaic covenant was ratified as Moses recounted the law, people said “we’ll obey,” built an alter, set up 12 pillars, sacrificed to God, the covenant was read, the people again say “we’ll obey,” Moses sprinkles blood on the book and the people, there was a Mosaic covenant meal, and then the people went up. (Ex. 24:3-8)

7. What is the sign of this covenant?
Circumcision was the outward sign of Israel. (Gen. 17:10) The Law of the 10 Commandments was the standard.

C. Covenant To Israel:

(See the first 3 posts to this thread. )

Your thoughts on the covenants? Did I miss something?

God bless,
GE

You defined the covenants well but my question was about being fulfilled.

Question: Are all, and I do mean all, the promises and covenants fulfilled in Jesus Christ? Yes or no will suffice.
  • 1

#47
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,501 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Jesus, The Bible, Family, Discipleship, Friends, Israel, Movies

You defined the covenants well but my question was about being fulfilled.

Question: Are all, and I do mean all, the promises and covenants fulfilled in Jesus Christ? Yes or no will suffice.


The Mosaic Covenant ended with Jesus Christ. Mankind could not save itself or fulfill the law. We were in need of a Savior.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the Abrahamic Covenant as salvation to the world. God is gathering to Himself His people for His glory. This Covenant shows that God is the Pursuer of souls, Lover of mankind, Savior of the world, Redeemer, and Righteous Judge. - all for the glory and honor of His name.

I'm unsure about the Covenant to Israel to be honest... I don't believe that Jesus Christ has finalized His work with Israel (Rom. 11). There are still many Jews that will come to know Christ IMO before He returns. I would need to study this further. Anyone else have any insight into this?

Your thoughts Larry?

God bless,
GE
  • 1

#48
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,501 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Jesus, The Bible, Family, Discipleship, Friends, Israel, Movies
PS - See this site for more: http://www.hebrew4ch...ael/israel.html

This graph gives us a good picture of where Jews and Gentiles relate to the Church. Grafted-in Gentiles and Remnant Jews are saved by Jesus Christ and therefor part of the Church. Ethnic Jews are ethnic Israel and Gentiles are the rest of those who are not saved.

Posted Image

Picture of grafting...
Posted Image

God bless,
GE
  • 1

#49
Matthitjah

Matthitjah

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,514 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Frederick,MD USA
  • Interests:Jesus Christ! His Will, His Way, His Counsel!
Ninhao's answer supplies some of the answer.

Christ's work is complete in it's Justification before God but we are not complete in Sanctification and God is not complete in His work within the Body. There will be many who join even in this late hour right up to the consummation.

The fufillment of the Promise again was threefold;

Natural (Israel)
Spiritual (Christ)
Physical (Nations like Ishamael)

God has placed all three under Christ's Reign. That means that there is a fulfillment of all three aspects that has to be met in Christ.

We read all through the Bible that Natural Israel is fulfilled in possession of the Land. However, tied to that is the Spiritual renewal as has already been shown. There is also an aspect of Christ receiving the inheritence of the Physical Nations. He already Judicially owns them it, but has yet to take full possession of them.

Here's an idea of what that will look like;

Re 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdom of this world has become the kingdom of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever.


One further note. The table of the Nations is set according to the number of children of Israel;

De 32:8
When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

De 32:9
For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.



Peace,
Dave
  • 1

#50
nebula

nebula

    Royal Member

  • Worthy Watchman
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 56,992 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Central Maryland
  • Interests:Worship dance
    Outdoors
    Earth and Space Science

Question: Are all, and I do mean all, the promises and covenants fulfilled in Jesus Christ? Yes or no will suffice.


Was the Covenant with Noah ("the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. ") fulfilled?
  • 1

#51
Guest_ninhao_*

Guest_ninhao_*
  • Guests

True Ninhao. God swore the covenant upon Himself. And yet God gave his firstborn for the redemption of humanity. Amazing love isn't it?



There is no greater love. Yes amazing :)

I'm unsure about the Covenant to Israel to be honest... I don't believe that Jesus Christ has finalized His work with Israel. There are still many Jews that will come to know Christ IMO before He returns. I would need to study this further. Anyone else have any insight into this?



I think the land covenant with Israel is finalised in Isaiah 11.

In Isaiah 11 we see the return of Jews to the land of Israel which occurs after or close to Jesus returns maybe.

Isa 11:11-12 KJV And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. (12) And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.


It will in some ways be similar to the exodus from Egypt.


Isa 11:15-16 KJV And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod. (16) And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.


This has not yet occurred and speaks about the nation of Israel and the final return of the Jew to the Promised Land. This will occur at the beginning of the Millennial Reign I think. I hope this is not incorrect.
  • 1

#52
shiloh357

shiloh357

    Royal Member

  • Platinum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 33,580 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Israel Advocacy Bible Study, Apologetics, Theology, Camping, Hiking, Fishing, Birdwatching, BBQing

Question: Are all, and I do mean all, the promises and covenants fulfilled in Jesus Christ? Yes or no will suffice.

Grace & Peace
LT


No.
  • 1

#53
FresnoJoe

FresnoJoe

    Royal Member

  • Worthy Watchman
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 43,898 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Elgin, Illinois, USA
  • Interests:The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 - - - Love, Your Brother Joe

I think the land covenant with Israel is finalized in Isaiah 11.


It Is Pretty Much

Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. Isaiah 66:40

Just Started

Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks. Jeremiah 16:16

In My Book

When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations; Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which cause them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD. Ezekiel 39:27-29

~

"Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone ... and bring them into their own land ..."' (Ezek 37.21)

'I will say to the north,"Give them up! ... bring My sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth"' (Isa 43.6)

'And (the Lord) will lift up a standard for the nations, and assemble the banished ones of Israel, and will gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth' (Isa 11.12)

These prophecies have seen recent fulfilment as the concept of Zionism and the regathering and restoration of Israel started in the late 19th century. Consider a few facts:

■1882: First wave of emigration (first ‘Aliyah’ or ascent) to Palestine, particularly from Russia and Romania

■1897: Theodor Herzel convened the First Zionist Congress in Basle, Switzerland

■1917: General Allenby liberated Jerusalem from the Turks, giving Jews access to the city

■1948: State of Israel established; David Ben Gurion became the first Prime Minister

■1950: Law of return passed by Israel’s Parliament – opening Israel to Jews from over 60 countries

■1967: Jerusalem came under Jewish rule

■Population: 1900: 0.5m; 1935: 1m; 1958: 2m; 1980: 4m; 2000: 6.3m; 2004: 6.9m; 2008: 7.3m; 2011: 7.8m

Note that 1967 saw all Jerusalem returned to the control of national Israel (after some 2500 years). This was direct fulfilment of Jesus' prophecy:

'"Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles unitl the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled"' (Lk 21.24)

Today, the goal of a State of Israel has been achieved and the role of Zionist organisations like the Jewish Agency & WZO is to oversee aliya, immigration, settlement and education.
http://www.seekingtr...o.uk/israel.htm


  • 0

#54
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,501 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Jesus, The Bible, Family, Discipleship, Friends, Israel, Movies


Question: Are all, and I do mean all, the promises and covenants fulfilled in Jesus Christ? Yes or no will suffice.

Grace & Peace
LT


No.


I agree with Shiloh. No. See this post and the post about God's covenant to Noah and humanity..

Re: Land given to Israel

Genesis 13:14-17
14 And the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: “Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are—northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 15 for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants forever. 16 And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered. 17 Arise, walk in the land through its length and its width, for I give it to you.


and... God gave the land for Israel and his disciendants to inhabit.

Genesis 15:4-8, 17-21
4 And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying, “This one shall not be your heir, but one {Isaac} who will come from your own body shall be your heir.” 5 Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
7 Then He said to him, “I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to inherit it.”
8 And he said, “Lord God, how shall I know that I will inherit it?”
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

and... God promises to keep His covenants.

Ezekiel 16:60-63
60 Nevertheless I will remember My covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you. 61 Then you will remember your ways and be ashamed, when you receive your older and your younger sisters; for I will give them to you for daughters, but not because of My covenant with you. 62 And I will establish My covenant with you. Then you shall know that I am the Lord, 63 that you may remember and be ashamed, and never open your mouth anymore because of your shame, when I provide you an atonement for all you have done,” says the Lord God.’”


and... As long as there is the sun to give light during the day and the moon/stars to shine at night God will continue to see Israel as His nation.

Jeremiah 31:35-36
35 Thus says the Lord,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,

Who disturbs the sea,
And its waves roar
(The Lord of hosts is His name):

36 “If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the Lord,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever
.”


and... God keeps His Covenant with Israel for His own sake.

Ezekiel 36:22-25, 28, 32
22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.
32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord God, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!”

Notice verse 17 in Galatians 3. God’s law does not annul the covenant and promise that was made to Abraham. (Gal. 3:15-18)

Gal. 3:15-18
The Changeless Promise

15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”[i] who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ,[j] that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.


God bless,
GE
  • 1

#55
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,501 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Jesus, The Bible, Family, Discipleship, Friends, Israel, Movies


Question: Are all, and I do mean all, the promises and covenants fulfilled in Jesus Christ? Yes or no will suffice.


Was the Covenant with Noah ("the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. ") fulfilled?


To my knowledge the Covenant with Noah was not fullfilled with Jesus Christ. God still maintains His promise that He will not destroy mankind with a flood.

Aren't rainbows amazing? It's a shame that they have been taken over and now mean something else. The rainbow was God's before it meant anything else.

Posted Image

Gen. 8:20-22
God’s Covenant with Creation


20 Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.


22 “While the earth remains,
Seedtime and harvest,
Cold and heat,
Winter and summer,
And day and night
Shall not cease.”



God bless,
GE
  • 1




0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Message Boards - 1999-2014 part of the Worthy Network