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MISCONCEPTION: The Seven Year Tribulation

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#1
rollinTHUNDER

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MISCONCEPTION: The Seven Year Tribulation


The seven year tribulation is very possibly the greatest misconception of End-time Bible prophecy. Many Bible teachers, including most of our well known scholars today, assume that the seven year tribulation is another term for Daniel’s 70th week. This assumption has brought much confusion to our understanding of how the end-times will play out at the conclusion of this current age, known as the age of grace. The apostle Paul warned us that the time would come when myths and/or fables would be taught instead of the truth of God’s word, and I believe we have been living in those days for quite some time now.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

What started out as a simple assumption has become a great misconception that has distorted the perception of countless believers, making it very difficult to have a solid understanding of the end-times. It has even muddied the water of all rapture theories (pre-, mid- and post-tribulation rapture), which were designed to more easily classify the various rapture views or positions held by individual scholars. Have you ever tried looking for something in muddy water? Unless the object you’re seeking is very close to the surface, you can forget about seeing whatever you’re looking for. Likewise, so goes our vision of the end-times when we start jumping to conclusions by adding our assumptions, misconceptions and pre-conceived beliefs to the truth we are given in God’s word. This is not a good mix.

It’s true that Daniel’s 70th week will last seven years (Dan. 9:24-27). Seventy (70) weeks of years were determined for the people of Israel (70×7=490 years), beginning from the command to rebuild Jerusalem, which was destroyed by the Babylonians, until the anointing of the Most Holy (Christ). However, Christ was cut off (crucified) after only 69 weeks (483 yrs), which left the 70th week or final seven years remaining to be fulfilled before He returns. These are the final seven years the world will witness just before the second coming of Christ, when the King of kings and Lord of lords returns with His saints to rule and reign on the earth for 1000 years, which is commonly known as the millennial Reign of Christ.
Now, since we know that Christ was, in fact, cut off after 69 weeks (483 yrs) according to Scripture, we also know that Daniel’s 70th week (final 7 yrs) still remains and has not yet been fulfilled. These final seven years must be fulfilled according to Scripture, however, the same can not be said of the so-called seven year tribulation. Although these two terms are commonly used interchangeably, they are not and can not be the same thing. Seven years remain unfulfilled, but there is no mention of a seven year tribulation anywhere in God’s word. There is simply no such thing. Now let me tell you why I believe this, then I’ll provide the Scripture to support my claim.

There are two glaring contrasts here. The days of tribulation actually begin in the middle of Daniel’s 70th week (7 years), after the abomination of desolation, according to Scripture and most scholars agree. But not only does the tribulation begin at the mid-point of the final seven years, but Scripture also tells us that the days of tribulation are cut short for the sake of the elect. Daniel’s 70th week (7 yrs), on the other hand, can not be cut short at all, unless, of course, the prophet Daniel gave us a false prophecy, which is not even remotely possible. We know that Daniel could not have been a false prophet, because Christ, Himself, points back to Daniel’s prophecy in Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

Daniel 9:24-26Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. [25] So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. [26] Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

In the passage above we see (7) sevens [49 yrs.], then another (62) sevens [434 yrs.], which equal 69 weeks or 483 years and then Christ was cut off, which leaves the final seven years or Daniel’s 70th week remaining (see passage below). Also notice the abomination of desolation begins at the mid-point or middle of the final seven years.

Daniel 9:27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Daniel 11:35
And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Here’s more about the abomination of desolation in the passages below.

Daniel 11:31
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 11:36
And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Now lets take a look at the abomination of desolation, along with the time remaining to the end:

Daniel 12:11-12
And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
Now here’s the kicker. From the passage of Scripture above, we can understand that Daniel’s 70th week will not be shortened at all. From the abomination of desolation in the middle of the seven years, we see not only the alloted 1260 days, 42 months and/or 3 1/2 years, but we also see an extension of 30 days (1290), with another addition of 45 days (1335) as well. Scripture is not clear as to what will happen during these two extensions, but it should be as plain as day that the days of Daniel’s 70th week will not and can not be shortened at all, and that the end must come at the time appointed. However, the same can not be said of the tribulation, which proves that the two are as different as night and day. Now let’s take a look at what the Bible has to say about the tribulation.

Matthew 24:14-22
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. [15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) [16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: [17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: [18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. [19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! [20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.


In the passage above, Christ, Himself, is telling us that the tribulation will begin after the abomination of desolation occurs, at the mid-point of Daniel’s 70th week of seven years, just as Daniel said it would. It shows the same exact starting point, but there is something here that is also very different. The days of tribulation will be shortened for the sake of the elect, otherwise no flesh would be saved. This creates another problem for scholars assuming the tribulation is seven years in duration. And not only are the days shortened, but Christ also tells us that no one knows when the days of tribulation will be shortened, not Christ, nor the angels, but only His Father in heaven knows. Two things are certain here. The tribulation is not a seven year period of time and Daniel’s 70th week can not be shortened.

It seems that some scholars have created for themselves another tribulation out of thin air. They want us to believe the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel’s 70th week are the tribulation, and the second 3 1/2 years are the great tribulation. They describe the first half as a pseudo-peace or false peace, and the second half as the great tribulation. The trouble is that a pseudo-peace would not resemble the tribulation that Christ speaks of in any way. Furthermore, there is absolutely no mention anywhere in Scripture of a tribulation occurring before the abomination of desolation. Christ has referred to this terrible time as both, the great tribulation (Matt. 24:22), and the tribulation (Matt. 24:29).

Since this thread shows what the tribulation is not, next time I’ll discuss what the tribulation actually is. Stay tuned.

#2
Parker1

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You know that in science, when a scientist makes an assumption that goes against the "flow" of knowledge on a subject, they have other scientest who agree and have independently reached the same conclusions that point to the "error" of prior conclusions? I know you posted this on another forum and referenced your book, but where are the other biblical/end times scholars who agree with you in your "teaching?"

#3
rollinTHUNDER

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You know that in science, when a scientist makes an assumption that goes against the "flow" of knowledge on a subject, they have other scientest who agree and have independently reached the same conclusions that point to the "error" of prior conclusions? I know you posted this on another forum and referenced your book, but where are the other biblical/end times scholars who agree with you in your "teaching?"

Do you mean, like gathering a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear? No, I'm here to expose those false assumptions, misconceptions and myths.

#4
OneLight

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You know that in science, when a scientist makes an assumption that goes against the "flow" of knowledge on a subject, they have other scientest who agree and have independently reached the same conclusions that point to the "error" of prior conclusions? I know you posted this on another forum and referenced your book, but where are the other biblical/end times scholars who agree with you in your "teaching?"

Do you mean, like gathering a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear? No, I'm here to expose those false assumptions, misconceptions and myths.

I believe Parker is asking who supports your theology, which is an honest question that I would also like to know.

#5
bornagain2011

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I thought it was basic christian teaching that the first half was peace and the 2nd half was tribulation? I didn't realize alot of people believed it was a full 7 years of tribulation.

#6
joi

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I thought it was basic christian teaching that the first half was peace and the 2nd half was tribulation? I didn't realize alot of people believed it was a full 7 years of tribulation.


There are about as many opinions on this subject as there are posters! Praying for God's truth on this matter will get you'His assistance on the matter. Take your time to read and study the Word. In time you will get your answers.

#7
rollinTHUNDER

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You know that in science, when a scientist makes an assumption that goes against the "flow" of knowledge on a subject, they have other scientest who agree and have independently reached the same conclusions that point to the "error" of prior conclusions? I know you posted this on another forum and referenced your book, but where are the other biblical/end times scholars who agree with you in your "teaching?"

Do you mean, like gathering a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear? No, I'm here to expose those false assumptions, misconceptions and myths.

I believe Parker is asking who supports your theology, which is an honest question that I would also like to know.

As far as other biblical/end times scholars that are well known, I don't know that my book has reached any of them yet. My editor says it's usually a very slow process, and even more so when you are unknown. With so many thousands of books that are being published every year, it's hard to get book stores to carry your book until there starts to be a demand for it. There are people that are excited about my book, but probably no one that you would know. I'd guess that there's only about 200 copies in circulation so far, and probably about 90% of those were bought locally, in my neck of the woods.

I have been thinking of sending a copy to some other end times scholars, because so far, I've noticed the ones that do get excited about it are the ones who have some knowledge about the end times. The book is very challenging and thought provoking, no matter what rapture theory you happen to believe in. It will make you want to question why you believe what you believe. Do you have any suggestions of which scholars I should send a copy to?

#8
rollinTHUNDER

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I thought it was basic christian teaching that the first half was peace and the 2nd half was tribulation? I didn't realize alot of people believed it was a full 7 years of tribulation.

Yes, Daniel's 70th week, which is a seven year period of time, is most often called the "7 year tribulation" these days, which is very misleading.

#9
Tinky

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I'm very wary of anyone who claims "new revelations."

#10
OneLight

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As far as other biblical/end times scholars that are well known, I don't know that my book has reached any of them yet. My editor says it's usually a very slow process, and even more so when you are unknown. With so many thousands of books that are being published every year, it's hard to get book stores to carry your book until there starts to be a demand for it. There are people that are excited about my book, but probably no one that you would know. I'd guess that there's only about 200 copies in circulation so far, and probably about 90% of those were bought locally, in my neck of the woods.

I have been thinking of sending a copy to some other end times scholars, because so far, I've noticed the ones that do get excited about it are the ones who have some knowledge about the end times. The book is very challenging and thought provoking, no matter what rapture theory you happen to believe in. It will make you want to question why you believe what you believe. Do you have any suggestions of which scholars I should send a copy to?

Sending a book to other end time theologists is one way of getting an idea, yet I have not even thought about this at all, so I can not offer any names. I was just wondering if you knew of any end time teachers who have the same theories you have, or close to it. It almost sounds like you have something completely new.

#11
Bold Believer

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More alien space bats theories. It is impossible to separate a period of 7 years (the last portion of Daniel's 70th week) into two periods of time with 2000 plus years in between. It defies logic, and if God is anything, He is a God of logic. Everything God does makes sense to Him, and He is the only one to whom He has to make sense.

#12
rollinTHUNDER

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I'm very wary of anyone who claims "new revelations."

I certainly can't blame you for feeling that way. It caught me by surprise when I first read it, too. But it was my editor who wrote the teaser on the back cover. I wasn't even allowed a say in that. New revelations sounds a little strong, but I do believe it's an accurate description nevertheless, because of a major discovery of something that has been completely overlooked for many centuries. And then there are several other nuggets hidden in the parables that have been missed as well.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it.

#13
rollinTHUNDER

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More alien space bats theories. It is impossible to separate a period of 7 years (the last portion of Daniel's 70th week) into two periods of time with 2000 plus years in between. It defies logic, and if God is anything, He is a God of logic. Everything God does makes sense to Him, and He is the only one to whom He has to make sense.


Impossible, that's a stretch if I've ever seen one. Just because someone may not be able to understand a particular concept, does not mean that it is impossible.

Daniel 9:25-27
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
[26]And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


It's very easy to see that Messiah was cut off after 69 weeks (483 yrs) in verses (25 & 26) above. But in verse (27) another possibility opens up. If the Messiah was cut off after 69 weeks and the Romans came some forty years or so later and destroyed the city and santuary, then who is the (he) in verse (27) confirming another covenant for seven years? It sure wasn't Christ, because He never made a seven year covenant with anyone. The covenant He made with those of us who believe is an everlasting eternal covenant. So who is the (he) in verse (27)?

Do you think it's possible that Christ might have given hints that someone else would be coming in His place?

Matthew 24:23-26
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
[25] Behold, I have told you before.
[26] Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


John 5:43
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

#14
Bold Believer

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What seven year covenant? The length of the covenant is never stated. That is where gross errors enter in, when people insert things into the text that are not there. The 'He' is Jesus. The covenant confirmed was I believe the New Covenant (Heb 8:10 and 10:16), the covenant made after those days by which he would remember their sins no more.

Jesus was being facetious in Jn 5:43. Jews considered a name authority, So when Jesus says he comes in His Father's name, He means God's authority. So when Jesus says if 'another' were to come in his own (human) authority, the Jews would receive Him, that's an indictment upon their faithlessness.

#15
joi

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Don't new revelations come to us through mankind? God used human prophets and apostles in His book.
I do not know rollinTHUNDER nor anything about him except that from all appearance he is a Christian, so
I believe it is entirely possible that God might use him as a vessel to reveal His Word.

From time to time we do seem to get some more advanced information that helps our understanding.
Could this be one of those moments?

Has anyone here read his book? I am curious as to its contents.

Perhaps one day I will be able to read this book and the one written by Leonard, both are Worthy authors.

#16
AlexanderJ

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More alien space bats theories. It is impossible to separate a period of 7 years (the last portion of Daniel's 70th week) into two periods of time with 2000 plus years in between. It defies logic, and if God is anything, He is a God of logic. Everything God does makes sense to Him, and He is the only one to whom He has to make sense.


I would agree in a certain sense, God is a God of logic, however, there is a serious problem with pushing this sort of reasoning because human logic and reasoning is flawed by sin. So, in essence, what you would be saying is "God conforms to my (possibly flawed) viewpoint of Him", which is not a good attitude to have. When you say "It defies logic", it would be more correct to say "It defies my logic or my way of looking at things". There are many, I repeat, many aspects of the spiritual world and God that we with all our human logic and understanding cannot fully comprehend while still in this mortal form:

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1 Corinthians 13:12


God may not (and often will not) make sense to us, but that is simply because of our flawed natures. That is why, as believers, servants, and students of the Most High we should look to God as such - "Not to what I think you are but to what you know yourself to be".

Edited by AlexanderJ, 21 November 2012 - 07:12 PM.


#17
Bold Believer

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What seven year covenant? The length of the covenant is never stated. That is where gross errors enter in,

[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

that one week is 7 years long


Well, I see where you have made one of your mistakes Daniel, an easy one to make. It is the week that is a seven, not the covenant. The covenant's length and purpose are not mentioned. Only that Messiah will confirm it during the one week. Messiah causes sacrifice and oblation to cease at the halfway point of the 70th week. How? By his atoning death and subsequent resurrection. The sacrifices and oblations no longer are efficacious (effective against sin) because the actual has come to replace forever the type and shadow.

You also write:


"This thread is misleading and false. Daniel's 70th week is the final 7 years before Christs return to earth. You say the thread is misleading and false, then add your own falsehood to it, compounding the problem. Daniel's 70th week is not the final 7 years. There was much to come after it.

Daniels 70th week is a 7 year time period (correct) with a 7 year peace treaty with Israel and her enemies that guranteees peace & security for Israel (utterly false, the covenant is never said to be a peace treaty, nor is there any mention of peace and security in the text) and the midpoint in that 7 year period the man of sin, son of perdition , the man of lawlessness breaks the treaty and starts killing Jews in the area of Judea ,,which is why scricpture tells them to flee to the wilderness /mountains and do not spend time going to get things from their houses ,,if they do they will die ,,it is that urgent, it takes place by surprise, the son of perdition , the man of lawlessness goes into the temple stops the sacrifices , proclaims to the world that he is messiah , he claims to be God and demands that all people worldwide worship him , he sets up an image that can be accessed worldwide; if they refuse to woirship him they will be executed and die ...shortly after this begins the wrath of God takes place , the last half of the 7 year period is Great tribulation leading into Gods wrath on all inhabitants of earth for rejecting Christ and refusing to accept Christ as savoir , so bad that if Jesus did not return then all flesh would die ,(For God's sake man, l wish you would learn proper English. This run on nightmare makes no sense at all. The man of sin is never mentioned here, at all. Period. It's not in the text. You have inserted it, making a mess of the text.

but at the very end of the 7 year period Jesus does return to save Israel from total destruction and destroys all of Israels enemies , Jesus starts his 1000 year reign ,,,the saints that return with Jesus are His Kingdom that rule and reign with Him for the 1000 year time period , during the 1000 years satan is bound in the pit totally unable to deceive the nations , then near the end of the 1000 years he is loosed to deceive the nations and all that satan is able to deceive and follow him get thrown into the lake of fire forever,,,then the restoration of all things happens and the planet becomes like the Garden of Eve and only followers of Christ are on earth and are Gods family and thus begins all things new for eternity ,,sin will never again exist for Gods family , God will once again walk on earth with his family because sin will no longer separate God from his family

More mish-mash and confusion. None of the things you write here are in the text. They are not even alluded to in the text. When you comment on a text...STICK TO THE TEXT.

#18
Montana Marv

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You stated above: Quote: Well, I see where you have made one of your mistakes Daniel, an easy one to make. It is the week that is a seven, not the covenant. The covenant's length and purpose are not mentioned. Only that Messiah will confirm it during the one week. Messiah causes sacrifice and oblation to cease at the halfway point of the 70th week. How? By his atoning death and subsequent resurrection. The sacrifices and oblations no longer are efficacious (effective against sin) because the actual has come to replace forever the type and shadow.


You state that the covenant's length and purpose are not mentioned, YET, you say HOW; By his atoning death and resurrection. (Which is the Purpose) If it's purpose is not given, How do you back up what you said. There is no Scriptural evidence that Christ made any covenant immediately after His Baptism, and thus 3 1/2 years later he died. And thus one cannot tie Christ to the "He shall confirm a covenant", it is not there.

You also state the the covenants length is not mentioned; But then you say that it is to Replace Forever. You are contridicting yourself.


Scripture says: he shall confrim a covenant with may FOR (how long) One Seven. The two are tied together. This "he" does not refer to Christ, for He made no such covenant. Then if He did, which part of His ministry did He make it and what specific Scripture will back up this covenant. For it better fall within your timeline.

In Christ
Montana Marv

Edited by Montana Marv, 23 November 2012 - 12:58 PM.


#19
Bold Believer

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What seven year covenant? The length of the covenant is never stated. That is where gross errors enter in,

[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

that one week is 7 years long


Well, I see where you have made one of your mistakes Daniel, an easy one to make. It is the week that is a seven, not the covenant. The covenant's length and purpose are not mentioned. Only that Messiah will confirm it during the one week. Messiah causes sacrifice and oblation to cease at the halfway point of the 70th week. How? By his atoning death and subsequent resurrection. The sacrifices and oblations no longer are efficacious (effective against sin) because the actual has come to replace forever the type and shadow.

You also write:


"This thread is misleading and false. Daniel's 70th week is the final 7 years before Christs return to earth. You say the thread is misleading and false, then add your own falsehood to it, compounding the problem. Daniel's 70th week is not the final 7 years. There was much to come after it.

Daniels 70th week is a 7 year time period (correct) with a 7 year peace treaty with Israel and her enemies that guranteees peace & security for Israel (utterly false, the covenant is never said to be a peace treaty, nor is there any mention of peace and security in the text) and the midpoint in that 7 year period the man of sin, son of perdition , the man of lawlessness breaks the treaty and starts killing Jews in the area of Judea ,,which is why scricpture tells them to flee to the wilderness /mountains and do not spend time going to get things from their houses ,,if they do they will die ,,it is that urgent, it takes place by surprise, the son of perdition , the man of lawlessness goes into the temple stops the sacrifices , proclaims to the world that he is messiah , he claims to be God and demands that all people worldwide worship him , he sets up an image that can be accessed worldwide; if they refuse to woirship him they will be executed and die ...shortly after this begins the wrath of God takes place , the last half of the 7 year period is Great tribulation leading into Gods wrath on all inhabitants of earth for rejecting Christ and refusing to accept Christ as savoir , so bad that if Jesus did not return then all flesh would die ,(For God's sake man, l wish you would learn proper English. This run on nightmare makes no sense at all. The man of sin is never mentioned here, at all. Period. It's not in the text. You have inserted it, making a mess of the text.

but at the very end of the 7 year period Jesus does return to save Israel from total destruction and destroys all of Israels enemies , Jesus starts his 1000 year reign ,,,the saints that return with Jesus are His Kingdom that rule and reign with Him for the 1000 year time period , during the 1000 years satan is bound in the pit totally unable to deceive the nations , then near the end of the 1000 years he is loosed to deceive the nations and all that satan is able to deceive and follow him get thrown into the lake of fire forever,,,then the restoration of all things happens and the planet becomes like the Garden of Eve and only followers of Christ are on earth and are Gods family and thus begins all things new for eternity ,,sin will never again exist for Gods family , God will once again walk on earth with his family because sin will no longer separate God from his family

More mish-mash and confusion. None of the things you write here are in the text. They are not even alluded to in the text. When you comment on a text...STICK TO THE TEXT.

Here you are again showing your lack of knowledge and understanding but yet trying to criticize me ,,,,
You have a very serious problem with comprehending the simplicity of reading this very clear scripture

27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

that one week is 7 years long notice the key words ,then the same scripture goes on to say that in the midst of that week.....you simply do not understand what scripture plainly teaches

the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate

it is just as if you sign a lease and confirm it for 36 months ,,,plain as day
the covenant IS established for one week,,,a 7 year period ,,you need some serious study since you are unable to grasp what this simple phrase means ,
The rest is bible scripture , how many times does it take in proving you wrong before you begin to learn and understand ,,I have provided scipture that proves what I said is true and accurate many many times and you are always shown the error of your false thinking,,,
You cannot at all prove what I say wrong ,,it is your inability to see clearly

Every time I prove what I say to be correct, supported by scripture...proving you wrong ,,you simply vanish because you are not able to answer the questions I ask of you without admitting that what I show is accurate
You told me that when I said the term "man of sin" that it was not scripture that it was not even in the bible ,you claim I made it up ,,but when I proved to you that you are wrong and provided scripture proof , your pride got bent,,,you simply will not accept scripture proof , nor admit when you are wrong, even when scripture is given to you


You simply have a false teaching a false understanding,,,and too much pride to acknowledge your flawed thinking
Shall we do it again??
http://www.worthychr...la/page__st__20


1. When I use the term 'the text' I mean whatever portion of Scripture is being spoken of, not the whole Bible. The term man of sin is not in Daniel 9:22-28, which is the body of text we're discussing.
2. I am pretty familiar with Daniel 9:22-28. It is a key eschatological Scripture.
3. All you are doing Daniel, is quoting the teachings of the pre-trib/pre-mil guys, not Scripture. You filter EVERYTHING through their teaching. Most people who believe in your understanding do just that. No offense, but you all sound like parrots. LaHaye, van Impe, and those guys say something, and everyone who believes their teaching quotes it. That's fine...IF you trust them. Personally, I've been there and after comparing their teaching to SCRIPTURE, they come up short. I don't trust their teaching, IT DOESN'T MATCH SCRIPTURE.
4. I suggest (after you learn to express yourself in English without half a page of run on sentence) that you learn to study FOR YOURSELF and not through J. N. Darby's (and Cy Scofield, and Harry Ironside, and Tim LaHaye, et al) filter. You will find that while I may not be 100% right, they are definitely incorrect as well...SERIOUSLY SO.

The original poster and I have disagreements as well, but he's right, the tribulation was NOT seven years. It WAS 3.5 years, 1260 days on a 360-day year calendar.

#20
Bold Believer

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You stated above: Quote: Well, I see where you have made one of your mistakes Daniel, an easy one to make. It is the week that is a seven, not the covenant. The covenant's length and purpose are not mentioned. Only that Messiah will confirm it during the one week. Messiah causes sacrifice and oblation to cease at the halfway point of the 70th week. How? By his atoning death and subsequent resurrection. The sacrifices and oblations no longer are efficacious (effective against sin) because the actual has come to replace forever the type and shadow.


You state that the covenant's length and purpose are not mentioned, YET, you say HOW; By his atoning death and resurrection. (Which is the Purpose) If it's purpose is not given, How do you back up what you said. There is no Scriptural evidence that Christ made any covenant immediately after His Baptism, and thus 3 1/2 years later he died. And thus one cannot tie Christ to the "He shall confirm a covenant", it is not there.

You also state the the covenants length is not mentioned; But then you say that it is to Replace Forever. You are contridicting yourself.


Scripture says: he shall confrim a covenant with may FOR (how long) One Seven. The two are tied together. This "he" does not refer to Christ, for He made no such covenant. Then if He did, which part of His ministry did He make it and what specific Scripture will back up this covenant. For it better fall within your timeline.

In Christ
Montana Marv


The purpose and length of the covenant aren't mentioned IN THIS TEXT. Notice: he confirms a covenant. He doesn't make a covenant. The covenant is already established. Where? IN ANOTHER TEXT, specifically Jeremiah 31:34.

Furthermore, the Book of Hebrews tells us that Christ was the one who confirmed the new covenant in Heb 12:24, which I will give here to clarify:

It is written:

..."to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel."

Now look if you will at the word Mediator; it is the word mesites which means:

one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant

I cite also Heb 9:14 through chapter end, specifically verse 18, where it is written:

Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.

It is the death of Christ which confirms the covenant. So when Daniel speaks of One who confirms a covenant, he is most definitely referring to the New Covenant, spoken of by Jeremiah.




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