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New revelations????

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#141
nebula

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So there is no Scripture to back this claim that is being treated as if the Lord said He would cease revealing Himself to us?

No, but such can be demonstrated.


And this is what is bugging me.

It is appearing as if "man's wisdom" has determined "the Canon" is closed.

If man can't use his mental faculties to deterine new revelation, why can man use his mental faculties to determine "the closed Canon" concept?


Does that make more sense?

#142
nebula

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I'm not sure about the intent (motivation) of those on the thread but I'd like to remind us all of a few things.

The first thing is Worthy is first a ministry that just happens to have a discussion forum. The second is that disrespect towards God's Word will not be allowed.

From the Worthy SoF (Statement of Faith)
We believe that the 66 books of the Canon, from Genesis to Revelation are the exhaustive, inerrant and inspired word of God.

From the WCF ToS (Terms of Service)
You may not post any material that is disrespectful of God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, or the Bible.



Please proceed with caution.

God bless,
GE


No worries - I'm just digging.

#143
shiloh357

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Shiloh -

OK, since I am obviously not getting what you mean by "revelation", would you give an example or two of what this is?

Maybe that will help.

Look at the difference between how God revealed Himself to the Abraham and the Children of Israel and now different He was from the gods of the ancient pagans.

He was radically different, the polar opposite of gods concocted by pagans. The biblical concept of a loving and redemptive God, was foreign to that part of the world. Having a God who was ompotent, omniscient, omnipresent, a God who was fully self-sufficient, needing no human assistance, a righteous God who was not fickle, who could be trusted to be faithful to everything He says and promises, and who is not sexually immoral like human beings; a holy God who is not plagued with the same moral failings as human beings, was a "revelation" to the ancient world. No such God ever entered their minds. They had no point of reference for such a God.

That is why the Scripture says that there is no god like YHVH.

Jesus was the revelation of who God is.

No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.
(Joh 1:18)

John 14:9 and Hebrews 1:1 also confirm that Jesus is the revelation of God and Hebrews 1:1 tells us that Jesus is the final revelation of God. God has in these last days spoken to us through His Son. Jesus is God's final word to mankind. That is why we believe that the canon is closed. Jesus has accomplished what God intended in terms of revealing Him to mankind and providing a means for redemption.

Again, I think you are applying a subjective sense to "revelation" and in doing so, are confusing it with illumination. Revelation is corporate. It is God revealing Himself to mankind. Illumination is more local and personal. It is God giving more light on what has already been revealed. Unfortunately, many people call that "revelation," and it isn't.

#144
shiloh357

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So there is no Scripture to back this claim that is being treated as if the Lord said He would cease revealing Himself to us?

No, but such can be demonstrated.


And this is what is bugging me.

It is appearing as if "man's wisdom" has determined "the Canon" is closed.


"Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
(Dan 9:24)

Daniel is talking about prophecy that spans from the death of Jesus all the to the rebuiling of the temple. Note the phrase "seal both the vision and the prophet." Vision is OT phrophet-speak for the Scripture. Scripture came by vision to the prophet. Daniel speaks of a time when the vision (Scripture) will be sealed up. It will be closed up.

But consider this while Jesus was a revelation of the Father to mankind, much of the NT is written from OT knowledge. Salvatrion, eternal life, justification by faith, grace, even many eschatological events revealed in the OT are mentioned in the NT. The NT is not revelatory in and of itself. It is constantly referring back to the Old Testament. It is further illumination on the OT revelation given by the prophets. Remember that little saying? "The New in the Old concealed, the Old in the New revealed."

#145
BlessedByTheBest

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Ephesians 6:10-24


10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;





sounds like safeguards to me.. :grin:

#146
shiloh357

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Which is correct, but I think you're right about getting on the same page with terminology, because the Teacher (Holy Spirit) is always giving more revelation and light of WHAT IS ALREADY WRITTEN.


More accurately, He is always giving more illumination and light of what is already written. You illuminate someone with knowledge that already exists and deepen their understanding of it. Unfortunately, many people mistakenly call that "revelation.".

#147
gdemoss

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Eph 1:17-18 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

In scripture, revelation and illumination are closely related and go hand in hand. God is not finished revealing himself unto mankind.

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Jesus, the perfected one, has not been completely revealed yet.

We could do an open word study here on the two words 'revelation/reveal' and 'illumination/enlightenment' and the study would show that they are quite interchangeable. Some merely make distinction seeking to uphold their certain theological positions that have molded their understanding of scripture and its interpretation.

We await the manifestation of the sons of God which has been revealed unto us in scripture as the eyes of our understanding have been enlightened. One deals with uncovering that which has been covered while the other speaks to the opening of the sight to those that are blind. The two meet when it is simply darkness that has both an object covered and the eyes of one blind who cannot see it.

#148
firestormx

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Again, I think you are applying a subjective sense to "revelation" and in doing so, are confusing it with illumination. Revelation is corporate. It is God revealing Himself to mankind. Illumination is more local and personal. It is God giving more light on what has already been revealed. Unfortunately, many people call that "revelation," and it isn't.


ok, I think, ( big I think) I'm beginning to understand ( not agree, understand) what you are saying. Please tell me if this is what you have been saying.


Christ was the Final revelation of God, ( who he is, his nature, his atrubuites and so on) to us. Hence your use of the term Corporate. It was to all of us. Christ is the word made flesh. All of scripture points to him. Revelation as most people think doesn't exsit now because Christ has already been revealed as that revelation. When we go into the Word, ( Christ is the word made flesh) We are not given revelation on it, but it is Illuminated By God for us. Our understanding of The known Lord Jesus Christ is deepened and Clarified. Hence it is a illumination and not a revelation. Since Christ is the revelation and that revelation was to all of us, revelation is corporate, for all, where as illumination is personal.

is this right?
Did I miss anything?

Firestormx
Joseph

#149
nebula

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Vision is OT phrophet-speak for the Scripture.


I have not heard of that one before. What is your source/reference/whatever for this claim?

#150
nebula

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If the cannon is not closed, and I think I proved with scripture above already it is.


No, you didn't prove it.

#151
nebula

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This thread is a concern to me. First, if the argument is about the scripture still being open, than what do you all believe is worthy to be called His words besides scripture? Many writings have already been rejected. They were rejected because the writings did not line up with scripture. Is there something that you believe lines up with scripture written today?


If nothing written by any Christian lines up with Scripture, what are we listening to and reading works by theologians, pastors, and teachers for? :online2long:

One thing for sure, they are not scripture. They are their words of what they feel scripture means. Some people spend far too much time reading other mans understand and not enough time in scripture. They place mans teachings on the same par as scripture, if not above scripture. This is when false doctrine appears and are defended.


If you cannot trust others to be hearing from God, how can you trust yourself to be hearing from God?

#152
GoldenEagle

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