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Was the man Jacob wrestled with actually Jesus?

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#1
*Zion*

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I know we can only speculate, (or can we do more???) but it would be interesting and informative to exchange thoughts.

 

I do think it was because it seems to me that it was God in the form of man, who is Jesus, right?

 

:39:



#2
shiloh357

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I know we can only speculate, (or can we do more???) but it would be interesting and informative to exchange thoughts.

 

I do think it was because it seems to me that it was God in the form of man, who is Jesus, right?

 

:39:

Many do believe it was a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus.   Interestingly, Hosea 12: 3,4 mentions this encounter and refers to the man as an angel. 



#3
*Zion*

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I know we can only speculate, (or can we do more???) but it would be interesting and informative to exchange thoughts.

 

I do think it was because it seems to me that it was God in the form of man, who is Jesus, right?

 

:39:

Many do believe it was a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus.   Interestingly, Hosea 12: 3,4 mentions this encounter and refers to the man as an angel. 

 

 

Indeed.  I have heard it said that the Angel of the Lord is actually Jesus.  I'm unsure as to how accurate that is, and I am unaware of all the arguments for and against that.  What is your personal conclusion in this particular instance?



#4
Fez

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I would say it could have been but we can never know for sure. If the angel had been named, that would have been different. Then there would be no doubt.



#5
*Zion*

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Yers, I'm not really after absolute proof, just people's thoughts and why they're inclined to think them, seeing as there is no obvious scriptural proof, as you say :)



#6
kwikphilly

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Blessings Zion...

      In the Genesis account "iysh" is used to refer to the man which is not expressed or really translated into English except that Jacob describing a "great,mighty or worthy man"& when referred to in Hosea 12 the word "mal'ak"is used .meaning dispatched from God,messenger(angel,king,ambassador)..........since every word does not come from the prophets interpretation but by Gods Will,the Holy Spirit.......(2 Peter 1:20) we know this messenger was sent by God but we just do not know if it was Jesus or an Angel......

     LOL,for some reason I cannot imagine Jesus not able to overcome any human being oir even wrestling with a man,I just think it was an angel,I do not7 even believe  it was Michael or Gabriel becase I think they would have told Jacob their name,.......I have no way of knowing for sure,,,,"yet" Glory & Praise to Godr!

                                                                                                                                         With love,in Christ-Kwik



#7
other one

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I think it was,,,   or at least I think he thought it was for he made the comment that he had seen God face to face and prevailed.

 

Seeing an angel would not have been that much of an issue.

 

Then again the thought of Jacob beating up God till God used his super powers on him just doesn't sound right either...



#8
*Zion*

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Sorry, I forgot to 'quote' and I don't know how to do it in editing, so I just copied and pasted :)

 

 

 

 

Kwik said:

 

Blessings Zion...

      In the Genesis account "iysh" is used to refer to the man which is not expressed or really translated into English except that Jacob describing a "great,mighty or worthy man"& when referred to in Hosea 12 the word "mal'ak"is used .meaning dispatched from God,messenger(angel,king,ambassador)..........since every word does not come from the prophets interpretation but by Gods Will,the Holy Spirit.......(2 Peter 1:20) we know this messenger was sent by God but we just do not know if it was Jesus or an Angel......

     LOL,for some reason I cannot imagine Jesus not able to overcome any human being oir even wrestling with a man,I just think it was an angel,I do not7 even believe  it was Michael or Gabriel becase I think they would have told Jacob their name,.......I have no way of knowing for sure,,,,"yet" Glory & Praise to Godr!

                                                                                                                                         With love,in Christ-Kwik

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think Jesus functioning in the weakness of flesh was ever an issue for him:

 

Philippians 2:5-8

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

 

 

Let's take a look at the passage:

 

Genesis 32:24-30

24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

 

 

 

Here's the thing: has God given his angels the authority to pronounce a blessing?  Not saying 'God blesses you' but 'I bless you'?

 

Hmmm... :39:



#9
Fez

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Jdg 13:17  And Manoah said to the angel of the LORD, "What is your name, so that, when your words come true, we may honor you?" 
Jdg 13:18  And the angel of the LORD said to him, "Why do you ask my name, seeing it is wonderful?" 
Jdg 13:19  So Manoah took the young goat with the grain offering, and offered it on the rock to the LORD, to the one who works wonders, and Manoah and his wife were watching. 
Jdg 13:20  And when the flame went up toward heaven from the altar, the angel of the LORD went up in the flame of the altar. Now Manoah and his wife were watching, and they fell on their faces to the ground. 
Jdg 13:21  The angel of the LORD appeared no more to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was the angel of the LORD. 
Jdg 13:22  And Manoah said to his wife, "We shall surely die, for we have seen God." 
Jdg 13:23  But his wife said to him, "If the LORD had meant to kill us, he would not have accepted a burnt offering and a grain offering at our hands, or shown us all these things, or now announced to us such things as these." 
 
Interesting. Did Jesus appear as an angel, or is this a metaphor for Him. 


#10
nebula

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I've heard it proposed that anytime the angel is called "the angel of the Lord" it is actually pre-incarnate Jesus.



#11
nebula

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Another puzzle is why Jacob wrestled with the angel.



#12
Izzel

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It was an angel this was done to shew us that we can overcome spiritual beings

but the question is how was Jacob able to wrestle with an angel only by the power of the Holy Spirit 



#13
other one

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Another puzzle is why Jacob wrestled with the angel.

I wasn't going to bring that up.....   but it is a good question



#14
other one

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It was an angel this was done to shew us that we can overcome spiritual beings

but the question is how was Jacob able to wrestle with an angel only by the power of the Holy Spirit 

I don't see that the Bible says that the Holy Spirit helped him.....



#15
*Zion*

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It was an angel this was done to shew us that we can overcome spiritual beings

but the question is how was Jacob able to wrestle with an angel only by the power of the Holy Spirit 

I don't see that the Bible says that the Holy Spirit helped him.....

 

 

I don't think we can overcome angels - Daniel was faint in the presence of the angel who showed him a particular vision/revelation without even touching him!  And why would he call an angel God?

 

God is clear in HIs Word however, that He has given us authority to resist the devil, and he WILL flee.



#16
other one

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I think it has to do with the form they show up in....    It's my understanding that they can simply look like you and I, or they can look awesome in our sight.    While I have not experienced it, I am friends with some that have seen one or more of the fallen ones in their full light being form and that's very humbling from what they tell me.   Carolyn Hamlett was introduced to Lucifer himself at one time in her life among the dark side.....    but I'd have to let her tell you about all that.



#17
other one

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Jacob was about to go meet his brother and seemed to be really down.....   so maybe God just wanted to brighten up his attitude and build up his self esteem a bit...  one can speculate all over the place.



#18
Fez

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I have "wrestled" with Jesus over many things over the years......

 

I have never won any of these matches, but I have on occasion run away, or come out of them a little wiser......... 



#19
other one

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I have "wrestled" with Jesus over many things over the years......

 

I have never won any of these matches, but I have on occasion run away, or come out of them a little wiser......... 

I do fully understand that.....    I haven't physically wrestled with him that I know of though...  I would say that he has let me win more than one argument .....   disasters as those were..  I did come out of it wiser....    but unlike you I had a long way to go and so I wouldn't express it as a "little" wiser....  LoL



#20
*Zion*

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I think it has to do with the form they show up in....    It's my understanding that they can simply look like you and I, or they can look awesome in our sight.    While I have not experienced it, I am friends with some that have seen one or more of the fallen ones in their full light being form and that's very humbling from what they tell me.   Carolyn Hamlett was introduced to Lucifer himself at one time in her life among the dark side.....    but I'd have to let her tell you about all that.

 

As has been asked before: why would he call an angel God?






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